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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 28 to 52 of 193. Go back in thread:
Posted by Twinleaf on July 2, 2013, at 9:15:54
In reply to Re: It is gone far beyond theorectical now, Dr. Bob » SLS, posted by Emme_V2 on July 2, 2013, at 5:49:07
I strongly support what Emme, Scott and others have said here. I am very concerned over the negative effect these posts are having upon newcomers - and how few newcomers there are now.
Scott found an excellent example of a very reasonable civility warning from the past to the poster in question. I join everyone else in making the strongest possible request that Dr. Bob reinstitute this kind of much needed administrative oversight. There could be as many civility warnings as he deems appropriate ( I.e. much more than one or two). But eventual short blocks of a week could also be considered. I personally think that, if they are used, they should always be kept short, and only used rarely. I think the prior continued doubling of block length becomes punitive, and does not help the poster maintain civil posting behavior, which should be the point.
In this situation, a clear PBC alone would clarify the standards of the forum, and go a long way towards reassuring newer posters.As time goes by with no action from Dr.Bob, this is becoming an extremely serious issue.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2013, at 12:13:57
In reply to Re: It is gone far beyond theorectical now, Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on July 2, 2013, at 9:15:54
> As time goes by with no action from Dr.Bob, this is becoming an extremely serious issue.
>
> TwinleafOne point of view is that the psychiatrist needs to make the problem go away. Associated feelings might include anxiety and frustration. Success is dependent on the psychiatrist.
> We have enough to battle with every day managing our illnesses. Please shouldn't come to a support forum and find themselves having to cope here as well. Even if some longtime posters are accustomed to certain circumstances here and are able to choose not to respond to posts that they find difficult, newcomers often do respond. Then the longtime posters expend energy trying to help the newcomer not only with their original question - which is the support folks here WANT to give - but in also doing damage control.
>
> Emme_V2Another point of view is that the problem needs continually to be battled. Associated feelings might include exhaustion and resentment. Success is dependent on learning ways to cope and finding the energy to persevere.
In a way, I see myself as trying a new coping mechanism that relies less on myself and deputies and more on posters. I feel some anxiety depending on others, but delighted and proud and hopeful because they just won a tough battle.
Bob
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 12:32:17
In reply to Re: It is still somewhat theorectical, posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2013, at 12:13:57
> I feel some anxiety depending on others, but delighted and proud and hopeful because they just won a tough battle.
>
> BobWhat win was that? I don't really see a win.
I see bullying being allowed by management. People shouldn't come here for help and be shamed and bullied into panic attacks because of it. I will never be happy with management while vulnerable parents are being attacked for trying to do the best for their kids.
I struggle to maintain positive feelings towards even the most difficult of posters. But that's impossible for me to manage when management does not seem to care a bit about the pain caused to anyone other than one poster.
The thing is that that poster does try to follow the rules. So I see it as an easy enough thing for you to give a reminder about pressuring and exaggeration. The problem is really less with the poster and more with you.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 12:34:03
In reply to Lou's response and warning to readers » Toph, posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2013, at 8:37:48
Funny.
I see Dr. Bob as being in concert with you in allowing the reprehensible shaming of parents coming here looking for an answer. I suppose we can take it. Newcomers shouldn't have to take it.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 12:40:23
In reply to Lou's response and warning to readers » Toph, posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2013, at 8:37:48
Have you no shame?
Do you feel at all for the pain you caused that poster? Do you give a damn about people, or just about your mission?
If you think God will approve of that, well... All I can say is that we have different notions of God.
I want to feel positively about you, Lou. I was long a strong supporter of you. But you are hurting people. I don't have positive feelings about those who are hurting others.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2013, at 12:43:14
In reply to Pain isn't theoretical » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 12:32:17
> > I feel some anxiety depending on others, but delighted and proud and hopeful because they just won a tough battle.
> >
> > Bob
>
> What win was that? I don't really see a win.
>
> I see bullying being allowed by management. People shouldn't come here for help and be shamed and bullied into panic attacks because of it. I will never be happy with management while vulnerable parents are being attacked for trying to do the best for their kids.
>
> I struggle to maintain positive feelings towards even the most difficult of posters. But that's impossible for me to manage when management does not seem to care a bit about the pain caused to anyone other than one poster.
>
> The thing is that that poster does try to follow the rules. So I see it as an easy enough thing for you to give a reminder about pressuring and exaggeration. The problem is really less with the poster and more with you.Friends,
It is written here,[...I see bullying being allowed...]and it is being allowed for others to heap hatred upon me with defamation, scapegoating and other devices that are against the rules.
Be advised that I am the subject person here and I am being accused falsely. This is allowed to stand by your "Dr. Bob" in spite of his own rules to the contrary. This could foster hatred toward me here and I could become a victim of anti-Semitic violence due to the nature that hatred toward the Jews is allowed to stand here and I am prevented from posting here the Jewish perspective in relation to what has been revealed to me that IMHHHHO could save your life, prevent addictions and life-ruining conditions and save the lives of innocent children that are drugged in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor.
You say I am bullying? I am being bullied, bullied by your "DR Bob" allowing hatred to be spewed upon the Jews and me here. And for those that want to pretend that they just don't see, I say to you that it would be better for you to be (redacted by respondent) than to come here and post that you do not see what is plainly visible.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 12:46:16
In reply to Lou's response and warning- » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2013, at 12:43:14
> I say to you that it would be better for you to be (redacted by respondent) than to come here and post that you do not see what is plainly visible.
> LouOh Lou. Don't redact. Please, tell me exactly what you'd see happen to me. Do you see Dr. Bob administrating?
I'd rather like to see the truth in your heart. It might be.... enlightening.
Posted by 10derheart on July 2, 2013, at 12:52:25
In reply to Re: It is gone far beyond theorectical now, Dr. Bob » SLS, posted by Emme_V2 on July 2, 2013, at 5:49:07
>>As Scott said, he's not here to play games. This board was not founded for the purposes of verbal hockey. I believe much of this could be alleviated if the site guidelines against exaggeration and over-generalization were applied. These guidelines already exist, they have already been enforced in the past, and they make sense.
So well and succinctly put it deserves to be reposted :-)
Bless you, Emme.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2013, at 12:54:41
In reply to Re: Lou's response and warning to readers » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 12:40:23
> Have you no shame?
>
> Do you feel at all for the pain you caused that poster? Do you give a damn about people, or just about your mission?
>
> If you think God will approve of that, well... All I can say is that we have different notions of God.
>
> I want to feel positively about you, Lou. I was long a strong supporter of you. But you are hurting people. I don't have positive feelings about those who are hurting others.Friends,
The shame here is the preventing of me to post fro a Jewish perspective that IMHHHHHO could saver the lives of people and their children that they are trying to decide as to drug them or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist. These drugs can kill the minds of children and those that give them may not know what I know that could save the child's life. I am prohibited to post that here and people then could become uninformed by not knowing what I know. And it is so easy to persude the uninformed.
Parents. look what is being attempted to do to me here. Those that want to stuff my mouth to silence can attempt to engender whatever they want you to think, but it has been revealed to me as the sun comes out of the East and sets to the West, so shall those children that are killed by the drugs being promoted here see you one more time again. I am prevented from posting here what the God that I give service and worship to prescribes to those that
Posted by 10derheart on July 2, 2013, at 12:56:55
In reply to Pain isn't theoretical » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 12:32:17
>>The thing is that that poster does try to follow the rules. So I see it as an easy enough thing for you to give a reminder about pressuring and exaggeration. The problem is really less with the poster and more with you.
Gosh, why didn't I think of that?
That's exactly what it is.
Thank you.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 13:15:45
In reply to Lou's response and warning to readers-scheym, posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2013, at 12:54:41
I usually try to remember that it isn't really wise to ask someone who believes they are on a mission given to them by the rider on the white horse, to modify their message or have other considerations (such as compassion for a parent in pain) in mind.
And upon further reflection I have decided that I do not in any way shape or form want to know what resides in your heart. It doesn't look like very pleasant, what with the "redacted" and all.
My problem is really with Bob, not with you.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 13:17:07
In reply to Re: Pain isn't theoretical » Dinah, posted by 10derheart on July 2, 2013, at 12:56:55
It really is.
When Dr. Bob spoke of winning or whatever rot it was, I lost my temper.
I would always far rather see myself be a target than others.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 13:19:03
In reply to Lou, I spoke unwisely, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 13:15:45
It isn't wise for me to do so, because I have no power whatsoever.
I think it would be extraordinarily wise of Bob to do so. And it likely wouldn't involve blocking Lou at all, just the willingness to block if necessary.
Lou does try to follow the rules, after all, if they are being administered.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 13:20:08
In reply to Re: Pain isn't theoretical » Dinah, posted by 10derheart on July 2, 2013, at 12:56:55
:(
Not that it matters. It really hurts me to see others being hurt. But Dr. Bob can call it a victory, or whatever it was he said.
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 13:20:30
In reply to Re: Pain isn't theoretical » Dinah, posted by 10derheart on July 2, 2013, at 12:56:55
Posted by 10derheart on July 2, 2013, at 13:31:10
In reply to Re: It is still somewhat theorectical, posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2013, at 12:13:57
Okay, so you are trying to make some analogy between a psychiatrist/patient relationship and the relationship between you as an administrator and all the posters of Babble, correct?
Since obviously you are no psychiatrist when posting here and we are definitely *not* your patients (you and I would be a poor fit, I'm afraid, and I would have to seek another provider). But I just don't get it. These boards are not the therapy space. The analogy does not work for me. And the thing is, apparently you don't believe in your own rules any more, rules that served this place well for years. IMO, Babble is utterly dysfunctional without the safety provided by you and/or deputies. This is no place for experiments or pushing people to use their precious emotional resources to fend off a drumbeat of responses telling them they are poisoning their children and that their children may become mass murderers or kill themselves. If you think otherwise, I don't know what to say.
How is this response by you helpful? It is always all so obfuscated when you do this. Can't you speak plainly? It is so very, very unhelpful in my opinion. We are not writing a book. We are not trying to think of the next clever comparison. We are not trying to see who can put the most flowery words together. We just want an open, welcome environment without put downs, accusations and insensitive rants. People *know* "real" life is not that way and they will have to cope without a pdoc or anyone else "making the problem go away." It is HARD. But do you really want them to completely have to do this here, under the strain of THIS kind of posting? Does PB have to be an exact replica of real life? I hope not. I used to come here for refuge.
You expect a mom to stay focused of her child's treatment and hearing from others with support when inundated with implications or bald-face assertions she is a drug pusher and poinsoner, who is in concert with pdocs in possibly killing her child? If so, I guess this "dialog" (ha!) is over since that is incomprehensible.
Lou posts more and more accusations, in clear violation of the most basic of your rules from the beginning, and yet on you go, oblivious to being accused personally of all kinds of things that are profoundly uncivil, and allowing your former deputies and more importantly, innocent, vulnerable posters to be accused of hatred...and not just some general, overall hatred, or even hatred of him, but of hatred of JEWS (absurd and utterly unfounded), racism, child abuse and neglect, and so much more I cannot recall.
YOU CAN'T RELY ON POSTERS TO MANAGE THIS. YOU are the administrator. You set up civility rules, and those very parameters drew some of us here, or at least kept us long term because of the prohibitions on bullying and the safety aspect. Now, you seem to want a jungle. What options do we have in this environment? Even ignoring and silence has no effect. The abusive writing still appears, again and again and again and again....
^&**&^%^%&!!!!
I would appreciate it if you would not change my subject lines, either. I get more than enough of this here. You can state your thoughts in the body of the post, can't you?
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2013, at 13:37:22
In reply to Re: It has gone far beyond theoretical now » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derheart on July 2, 2013, at 13:31:10
Amen.
(Thank you for keeping your cool far better than I did. If there's any chance whatsoever he'll understand, your way works better.)
Posted by Twinleaf on July 2, 2013, at 14:38:46
In reply to Re: It is still somewhat theorectical, posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2013, at 12:13:57
I do not see any winners at all in this situation. Lou, old posters, newer posters, those who do not post because of the lack of safety and Dr. Bob all appear to be losing something which once meant a lot.
PBCs will probably not alter this situation too much, but they will provide a way to reassertion the values and ethical standards of this site, and can eventually be backed up with short blocks if necessary. That is really needed now. It's just a mess the way it is.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2013, at 15:11:39
In reply to Re: It is still somewhat theorectical » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on July 2, 2013, at 14:38:46
> What win was that? I don't really see a win.
>
> Dinah> I do not see any winners at all in this situation.
>
> TwinleafAm I the only one who sees it?
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2013, at 16:09:16
In reply to Re: It has gone far beyond theoretical now » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derheart on July 2, 2013, at 13:31:10
> Okay, so you are trying to make some analogy between a psychiatrist/patient relationship and the relationship between you as an administrator and all the posters of Babble, correct?
>
> I just don't get it. ... The analogy does not work for me.> How is this response by you helpful? It is always all so obfuscated when you do this. Can't you speak plainly? It is so very, very unhelpful in my opinion. ... We just want an open, welcome environment without put downs, accusations and insensitive rants. People *know* "real" life is not that way and they will have to cope without a pdoc or anyone else "making the problem go away." It is HARD. But do you really want them to completely have to do this here, under the strain of THIS kind of posting? Does PB have to be an exact replica of real life? I hope not.
That's the idea. Both are hard. If posters find they have the strength to do it here, they may find they have the strength to do it in real life.
And Babble isn't an *exact* replica. It's safer, and there's more support.
> Lou posts more and more accusations ... and yet on you go, oblivious to being accused personally of all kinds of things that are profoundly uncivil, and allowing your former deputies and more importantly, innocent, vulnerable posters to be accused of hatred
I don't read all of Lou's posts. That's one of my coping mechanisms. But if someone else thinks he's being uncivil -- and they notify me, using the notification system -- then I do read those posts.
> I used to come here for refuge.
>
> You set up civility rules, and those very parameters drew some of us here, or at least kept us long term because of the prohibitions on bullying and the safety aspect.You make a good point, a refuge may help people find strength, too. Maybe Babble doesn't have to be either-or. What about a new Refuge board? Would it be enough to enforce civility the way I used to? Or would it also need to be considered uncivil, for example, to post something that might scare other posters?
> I would appreciate it if you would not change my subject lines, either. I get more than enough of this here. You can state your thoughts in the body of the post, can't you?
>
> 10derheartI could. But I like having the freedom to express myself in the subject line, too.
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on July 2, 2013, at 16:29:00
In reply to Lou's response and warning to readers-scheym, posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2013, at 12:54:41
You are not "prevented from posting" what you wish to say. Is someone physically restraining you? Is your Internet down? Are you being kept away from your computer against your will? No, you are not prevented from posting your perspective here. Rather, you are CHOOSING not to accept the stated consequences of violating the community guidelines. You can post whatever you wish. And the community and/or the administrator can also choose their response.
Actions have consequences. That's life. So make your choice, deal with the consequences, and for Pete's sake, please don't whine about it!
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2013, at 16:56:42
In reply to Re: Lou's response and warning to readers-scheym, posted by gardenergirl on July 2, 2013, at 16:29:00
> Mr Hsiung and his deputy are allowing defamation to be heaped upon me
>
> Lou Pilder> So make your choice, deal with the consequences, and for Pete's sake, please don't whine about it!
>
> gardenergirlPlease don't post anything that could lead others (including me or my deputy) to feel accused or put down.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 2, 2013, at 16:59:47
In reply to Re: Lou's response and warning to readers-scheym, posted by gardenergirl on July 2, 2013, at 16:29:00
> You are not "prevented from posting" what you wish to say. Is someone physically restraining you? Is your Internet down? Are you being kept away from your computer against your will? No, you are not prevented from posting your perspective here. Rather, you are CHOOSING not to accept the stated consequences of violating the community guidelines. You can post whatever you wish. And the community and/or the administrator can also choose their response.
>
> Actions have consequences. That's life. So make your choice, deal with the consequences, and for Pete's sake, please don't whine about it!Friends,
"Prevented from posting" is part of what is in question. The whole statement involves more than that. You see I am prevented from posting as in one example, the foundation of Judaism as revealed to me, {due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung}. I am prevented from posting such IF I ABIDE BY THE PROHIBITION. Sure, I could not abide by the prohibition, but it is against the rules to not abide by them. I am trying the best that I can as a human being to abide by all the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. And if I somehow make a mistake, I post an apology. This applies to me even if all the members are allowed to break Mr Hsiung' rules here, for I will attempt to my best to honor his wishes for Mr Hsiung states that members are to be civil at all times, even if he allows hatred toward the Jews to stand, even if he allows defamation to be posted here toward me. Even if one calls me The Prince of Death.
And you parents following this can go to the administrative board and see years of outstanding requests/notifications from me to Mr Hsiung. Years that if they were responded to, it is my great conviction that the members here that were killed by the drugs would still be alive. And how many more deaths will it take before I am allowed to be free to post from the Jewish perspective as revealed to me? And how many more years will hatred toward the Jews be allowed to stand? Allowed to stand to poison the minds of readers to hate, as they can think that hatred toward the Jews is supportive.
Allowing now members to bash me over and over now, does not annul the fact that years gone by I had tried so hard to get the requests responded to, but it was only a dream. Members posted that I have some evil scheme. There was a time when we were not so far apart. Why can't I free your doubtful minds, and melt your cold, cold hearts.
Lou
Posted by gardenergirl on July 2, 2013, at 17:10:15
In reply to Re: please be civil » Lou Pilder » gardenergirl, posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2013, at 16:56:42
Posted by Twinleaf on July 2, 2013, at 18:57:23
In reply to Re: please be civil » Lou Pilder » gardenergirl, posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2013, at 16:56:42
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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