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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 264 to 288 of 308. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2010, at 1:51:27
In reply to Re: Appreciation » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on August 29, 2010, at 12:42:51
> This point system is utterly ridiculous
>
> I just wish you wouldn't be barging ovver other people so insensitivelyPlease don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by muffled on August 30, 2010, at 11:59:22
In reply to Re: please be civil » muffled, posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2010, at 1:51:27
> > This point system is utterly ridiculous
> >
> > I just wish you wouldn't be barging ovver other people so insensitively
>
> Please don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused or put down.ROFL!!!
Okey dokey.
Hmmm.
I completely don't understand the use of a point system.Hmmmm.
Hmmmm.
Hmmm.
I wish admin on this site could listen and hear what people say here. Cuz its seems like we talk and nothing changes.
OK, thats my first shot at this.....
Lemme know...
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 4, 2010, at 21:29:30
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by muffled on August 30, 2010, at 11:59:22
> I completely don't understand the use of a point system.
>
> I wish admin on this site could listen and hear what people say here. Cuz its seems like we talk and nothing changes.
>
> OK, thats my first shot at this.....
> Lemme know...Very civil, thank you. :-)
What would you like to change? I'd like to know, and will try to hear, and to listen. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'll make those changes.
Bob
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 0:34:32
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on August 14, 2010, at 1:38:00
I don't think the point system is good idea AT ALL. I don't understand it. PB doesn't need MORE rules. How come other psych med boards run smoothly without banning people or rewards systems?
Posted by Kath on September 21, 2010, at 11:19:23
In reply to Re: thanks » muffled, posted by Dr. Bob on September 4, 2010, at 21:29:30
> What would you like to change? I'd like to know, and will try to hear, and to listen. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'll make those changes.
>
> Bob" I wish admin on this site could listen and hear what people say here. Cuz its seems like we talk and nothing changes"
In my opinion, the whole FB, Twitter situation is a good example. My take on it is that there was a HUGE majority of people who made it crystal-clear that they did not want buttons that would quick-&-easy transfer posts from Psychobabble to Facebook & Twitter.Even so - these people's strong/ heartfelt/ sometimes-frantic/ clearly-put-forth requests were overridden. They might have been "heard" but they weren't acted on. It ended up that they weren't given the amount of weight or importance that would have resulted in their requests/wishes being respected.
Dr. Bob you asked what M would you like to change? Well, personally - I'd like it if the wishes of a HUGE number of participants here were respected. To me, in the case I mention, the wishes of a vast number of members were just ignored. I don't know how other people feel, but for me, some type of 'sorry you feel like that' & then just forging ahead against what so many wish, - when that happens, I feel dismissed & disrespected. And I guess in this case I felt used....since I knew what I posted might be used for research, but to me research does not include FB & Twitter.
So now, with the Points idea, I'm wondering if the same thing will happen. That so many people will speak up clearly & with emotional involvement about not wanting it. And it will simply end up being pushed through, because you want it to. I'm not meaning to disrepect you & I've tried hard to write this in a civil manner.
And for the record, I sincerely & profoundly beg you not to put a point system in place, for all the reasons that other people have already stated.
I hope you will listen to us with your actions.
Thank you for reading this.
Kath
Posted by muffled on September 21, 2010, at 11:47:50
In reply to Re: thanks » Dr. Bob, posted by Kath on September 21, 2010, at 11:19:23
and Hi you!!!
:)
Posted by olivia12 on September 21, 2010, at 20:11:32
In reply to I have an idea for Babble, posted by Deneb on July 2, 2010, at 15:03:50
No, I disagree completely Deb--didn't read the thread of responses, but your suggestion just sounds too much like my old psych texts--a reward system or token economy that went out with the 60's version of mental health--leeches and lobotomies. I find this site to be way more evolved than that. No offense--is just IMO:) I appreciate the advice and fellowship offered here--no more, no less.
Posted by twinleaf on September 22, 2010, at 20:10:30
In reply to Re: thanks » Dr. Bob, posted by Kath on September 21, 2010, at 11:19:23
To follow on from Kath's post, the most striking thing that has happened over the last couple of years is the enormous decline in the amount of posting. From what long-term members have said, they would love to be able to post the way they used to, but they do not have the same sense of comfort and safety which they once had. The loss of active posters does not appear to have been compensated for at all by new members from Facebook/Twitter.
None of us expect that Bob will do what we think would be best, necessarily. But I think we do expect to be heard respectfully, and our views acknowleged accurately. In the case of FB/Twitter, well over a hundred people expressed their sincere concern over the increased dangers of privacy loss. These were serious concerns involving jobs and insurance. Bob did not once acknowledge that these were accurate and valid concerns, but instead told everyone that their concerns were due to a fear of the new and unknown. It is impossible to feel like a respected and valued member of the community when communications by the moderator are that poor and inaccurate. It has resulted in a major loss of trust and confidence in this site. While it is not easy to do, I think the future health of Babble depends on whether Bob is willing to look thoughtfully at how his communications are perceived. In addition to not acknowledging peoples' concerns about the social networks and the ratings system accurately and respectfully (this does NOT mean agreeing with them necessarily), there is also a lack of respect shown in the extremely long blocks, and especially in Bob's statement that there is a "punitive" element in them. Punitive elements are simply not appropriate on an internet form, and especially not on one devoted to mental health. This is also true of the civility reminders. There are posters here with more life education and education than Bob, and it is really not appropriate to tell them, or anyone, what is or is not civil, Who is to say that someone who has a different idea about what is civil is wrong, while Bob is right? . Almost every difference of opinion here will be self-correcting, given a little time and space.
To end on a positive note, Bob has created a wonderful site. It has remaiined tremendously helpful for information about treatments, and it could be very valuable once again in some of the more interpersonally sensitive forums, like Psychology and Social.
Posted by twinleaf on September 23, 2010, at 15:44:21
In reply to what might help, posted by twinleaf on September 22, 2010, at 20:10:30
I realize that I tried to address the pervasive feeling which we have of not being understood - of having the reasons for our points of view reflected back to us in an altered form, but didn't address the next difficult problem: how to react when Bob makes changes which hundreds of posters feel are not in Babble's best interests. In order to have a forum to which lots of people want to contribute, there probably needs to be roughly a majority consensus between Bob and our community about what would be best. Beginning about three years ago, there was a very extensive discussion about the blocking policy. This was followed by another even more extensive debate about Facebook/Twitter. Currently, the same thing is happening over the *reward system*. Community members have been thoughtfully expressing their views about each of these topics; they have been against each one, for clear and substantial reasons, by at least 100 to 1. As Bob proceeds to implement policies which are so unpopular, the number of posters who feel that Babble is no longer the right forum for them grows and grows. Right now, the number of posts appears to be almost at a standstill..
What would Bob lose if he set a new policy for blocking which had a maximum length of a few weeks, which did not double for repeat offenses, and which did not have a punitive element as one of its purposes? What would the loss be if he ceased micromanaging the civility guidelines, and trusted members to work out their difficulties most of the time? What would be the loss to him if the default position on Facebook/Twitter was the opposite of what it presently is? :Lastly, what loss would there be if the reward system were set aside? Not only would there be no discernable loss to him, there are tremendous potential gains. I think that adopting these new positions would create the conditions for the return of a lively and vibrant babble - a la 2007. There are so many babblers who would like to post the way they once did. And if they can once again create a strong, active community, new members will have something worthwhile to join.
Posted by olivia12 on September 23, 2010, at 18:57:42
In reply to to conclude....., posted by twinleaf on September 23, 2010, at 15:44:21
As I am new to this group, I don't know which policies you are referring to. I personally appreciate Bob's lack of censorship/involvement--he kinda just let's us be. I have never felt ignored or attacked and have gained much from reading here. Can you give me some of your insight though? Thanks.
Posted by twinleaf on September 23, 2010, at 19:32:31
In reply to Re: to conclude....., posted by olivia12 on September 23, 2010, at 18:57:42
I was trying to address the fact that the rate of posting is probably only 5-10% of what it was several years ago, and, for many of us who were Babble members then, it seems as though those who do post are much less spontaneous and open- apparently much more wary of incurring blocks and civility warnings. Many people who posted almost daily now don't post at all because they are still upset about having their views misinterpreted and about the extremely unpopular decisions involving blocking, civility and social networking policies,
What I was saying would really only be meaningful to those of us who have been here a while. Babble really needs enthusiastic new members like you!
Posted by olivia12 on September 23, 2010, at 19:46:57
In reply to Re: to conclude..... » olivia12, posted by twinleaf on September 23, 2010, at 19:32:31
I don't know about any "warnings" or "blocks"--I'd feel micromanaged and be less likely to comment if I thought I'd be reprimanded! I find Dr.Bob to be refreshing and pretty liberal in what he lets happen here--in fact, I find it a bit out of the ordinary on a messege board. Still, I haven't been on here long enough to make any comparisons from then to now. Maybe this site was just hot and heavy when it started because it was new?
Posted by vwoolf on September 25, 2010, at 10:42:12
In reply to what might help, posted by twinleaf on September 22, 2010, at 20:10:30
In a post on the social board on 20th August, and I don't know how to create a link, sorry, Dr Bob wrote regarding the Facebook, Twitter debacle:
>I know that process left much to be desired, and I continue to regret that.
It was, to my mind, an important and courageous statement, and one which we should encourage Dr Bob to consider carefully. I know he cares deeply about PsychoBabble, and I think it is hard for him to see it declining like this, in part because of what he admits to have been his mistakes. It is my hope that he will eventually find a way to repair some of the damage that has been done to PsychoBabble, perhaps starting by removing the Twitter and Facebook buttons.
My personal take on the blocks and civility posts is that they are necessary and helpful in creating a frame. I think this is confirmed by the number of posters who return even after a year's block - there is something good and caring about a parent who sets consistent boundaries.
> To end on a positive note, Bob has created a wonderful site. It has remaiined tremendously helpful for information about treatments, and it could be very valuable once again in some of the more interpersonally sensitive forums, like Psychology and Social.
I couln't agree more.
Posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 19:10:16
In reply to Re: what might help » twinleaf, posted by vwoolf on September 25, 2010, at 10:42:12
Psychobabble is right at the leading edge of online communities. Posting topics and personal interactions are bound to be unexpected and stress-inducing at times, and knowing how to respond can be extremely challenging. I think we all look up to Bob as a very competent leader in these areas, and we would like very much to see him demonstrate the flexibility which being a leader in a new field necessarily requires. I think it is very reasonable, on our parts, to hope and expect that Bob will modify policies which hundreds of posters find unacceptable or even harnful. If he did this, it would be a "win-win" situation for everyone: Bob would not lose anything of importance to him or to Psychobabble, and he would gain the respect and trust of hundreds of babblers while still being able to administer the site effectively. On our parts, we would appreciate his flexibility tremendously,and would be very grateful to be rid of outmoded, unhelpful, damaging administrative policies. Many people have said here how much they would like to see these changes, and how much they would like to see the conditions of several years ago restored.. While no-one can say for sure, I think there is a very good chance that posting rates would increase a great deal if Bob made these quite modest changes. So........Bob?
Posted by muffled on September 25, 2010, at 19:18:20
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 19:10:16
Lovely to think of, but I no longer trust Bob.
Been burned too many times.
:(
Posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 20:03:26
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by muffled on September 25, 2010, at 19:18:20
vwoolf made such a good point - quoting Bob as saying that he had regrets about how things unfolded with the Facebook/Twitter situation. This was an example of a novel situation, with no similar situations in the past to help guide Bob in his decision-making. I feel certain that he acted in good faith throughout that whole process, and may well have been surprised by how negative our reactions were. I think it was terrific that he acknowledges later that he regretted some of his actions. I really respect anyone who does that! Still, there should be a next step: correcting what was wrong. I personally would be happy with a default position which protects our privacy, rather than one which automatically spreads our posts onto the social networks. It is important to me to continue to support this position, because I received two blocks of more than a year for (civilly) objecting to Facebook/Twitter.
At the moment, I am just suggesting one action: modifying the default position for Facebook/Twitter (or doing something comparable) . If this could be done, perhaps other issues like the exceedingly harsh and inappropriate blocks which I and others have received for civilly expressing a disagreement, might be reviewed by Bob and the community, with the goal of implementing policies which have, or can be worked on together until they have majority support.
Posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 12:45:20
In reply to Re: what might help » muffled, posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 20:03:26
I am totally confused...I can't seem to figure out what this discussion is about. I have always felt that my privacy was very respected here. What facebook/twitter buttons are you guys talking about please?
Posted by twinleaf on September 27, 2010, at 14:13:31
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 12:45:20
They are just below your message. When you joined Babble, there was a choice to opt out of having your posts automatically forwarded to Facebook and Twitter. Because you did not choose that option, all of your messages are automatically forwarded.
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 14:31:44
In reply to Re: what might help » muffled, posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 20:03:26
> vwoolf made such a good point - quoting Bob as saying that he had regrets about how things unfolded with the Facebook/Twitter situation. This was an example of a novel situation, with no similar situations in the past to help guide Bob in his decision-making. I feel certain that he acted in good faith throughout that whole process, and may well have been surprised by how negative our reactions were. I think it was terrific that he acknowledges later that he regretted some of his actions. I really respect anyone who does that!
*I respect people who respect others feelings about things...
He has spoken, but has he DONE anything???
Bob has always talked, and that is a fascinating thing in of itself...LOL, but it is his *actions* I am much more interested in.>Still, there should be a next step: correcting what was wrong. I personally would be happy with a default position which protects our privacy, rather than one which automatically spreads our posts onto the social networks. It is important to me to continue to support this position, because I received two blocks of more than a year for (civilly) objecting to Facebook/Twitter.
*yeah, blocks are yet another "issue" I have with how this place is run. Which is why I left. Why do i come back? Cuz it used to be a good place, so I come to visit is all, I read, but fear posting anything personal. I am ok posting here, but nothing personal anymore. :(
> At the moment, I am just suggesting one action: modifying the default position for Facebook/Twitter (or doing something comparable) . If this could be done, perhaps other issues like the exceedingly harsh and inappropriate blocks which I and others have received for civilly expressing a disagreement, might be reviewed by Bob and the community, with the goal of implementing policies which have, or can be worked on together until they have majority support.*ahhhhh you are sweet, thats helpful, but not enuf. We have tried to reason w/the admin in the past to no avail. In fact many of us put a great hearfelt effort into it.:(
I used to think my H could change some of his ways, but I have come to realize he either can't or won't. He would lose everything, money, family, rather than change.
Bob refused to change and babble has wilted.
He seems unable to take in what babblers tell him.
He lost all his deputies.
But he doesn't change :(
My H is a nice guy, but is nearly impossible to live with.
Proly Bob is a nice guy, but I can't live with how he runs this site.
Unfortunate, but that seems to be the way it is.
I suppose I hope something will change. Tho I won't fully trust this site even then for a long time to come.
But who knows...
Additionally there has been other issues http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/955337.html
for example.
Bobs focus is undoubtedly to flog this site at all costs w/o concern as to whether if affects the quality for posters...I honestly just don't understand him at all.
Good luck....
Posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 14:33:12
In reply to Re: what might help » olivia12, posted by twinleaf on September 27, 2010, at 14:13:31
Well, I never clicked on "like" for either of them and so the default remains private, right? It would be extremely weird should any of this be sent to other accounts unless I was so into sharing that I opted for that.
Posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 14:45:02
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 14:31:44
I am more confused than ever now. If one doesn't want to be involved in facebook/twitter exchanges then do not click on the link. I have no idea what all of the fear over lack of privacy is about!
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 15:35:08
In reply to Re: what might help » muffled, posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 14:45:02
> I am more confused than ever now. If one doesn't want to be involved in facebook/twitter exchanges then do not click on the link. I have no idea what all of the fear over lack of privacy is about!
*LOL, its a long and sordid story.
But at one time this site was quite busy and we developed a close knit group of people. People came and went and new people came and were welcomed and it was good.
The site was always searchable by google, which makes it very easy to find.
However for some reason unbeknownst to me, Bob felt the need to add the buttons that make it easy, and puts it in your face, that you can just click and post posts to facebook/tweets etc.
This could have been done before, but would have requiered much more effort, eg cutting and pasting, or copying links etc. This is much more of a conscious action than just clicking a button.
So anyways, we had felt reasonably safe here and would post about how we were doing etc, but now I am reluctant, cuz its just waaaay too easy to spread stuff around that I post. Whether on a thread of my own or someone elses. Bob in fact seems to be actively interested in spreading babble as far and wide as he can....and I don't know why??? It certainly hasn't made it a busier place....just more scarey.
Also, the posts are all archived here forever, they are not deleted after a time. As well, Bob will seldom remove posts, even if they are very hurtful and causing ongoing probs for someone.
As well, there is a possibility we will be 'studied' becuase that is what Bob(the owner) does and has in the past.
I post on a diff site, that is googlable, but doesn't archive posts, doesn't encourage posts to be placed elsewhere. So it feels more private, though we are all still careful there as it is the net.
However, there we feel more like we are talking in a restaraunt, rather than having what were are saying displayed on some large screen TV in the street....
THAT is the difference.
Its also in HOW Bob brought it into being. Most were against it, and spent much time expressing why etc, but still he did it, and he has done things like this in the past. The people that made babble, babble didn't seem to matter to him, he only cared about the 'bigger picture'. Which is why most babblers bailed on him.
Hope that answers your question.
Posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 15:51:04
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 15:35:08
Thank you, Muff. However, if you don't wish to partake in FB/twitter, just don't click on the links. I didn't and feel that my privacy is respected.
Posted by Dinah on September 27, 2010, at 17:03:23
In reply to Re: what might help » muffled, posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 15:51:04
> Thank you, Muff. However, if you don't wish to partake in FB/twitter, just don't click on the links. I didn't and feel that my privacy is respected.
For the record, the links aren't just for you to post your own posts elsewhere. Anyone can use the links to post your post anywhere they wish. The links have numbers next to them. On at least one of your posts in this thread, there's a number next to the Facebook link that shows at least one person clicked that link. It doesn't mean that they necessarily followed through and posted it anywhere. But someone, either you or someone else, used the button.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/963975.html
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 17:25:08
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2010, at 17:03:23
> > Thank you, Muff. However, if you don't wish to partake in FB/twitter, just don't click on the links. I didn't and feel that my privacy is respected.
>
> For the record, the links aren't just for you to post your own posts elsewhere. Anyone can use the links to post your post anywhere they wish. The links have numbers next to them. On at least one of your posts in this thread, there's a number next to the Facebook link that shows at least one person clicked that link. It doesn't mean that they necessarily followed through and posted it anywhere. But someone, either you or someone else, used the button.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/963975.html
>
>*Thx Dinah, I think alot of people are not clear on that.
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