![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 60 to 84 of 95. Go back in thread:
Posted by gardenergirl on March 12, 2008, at 10:23:50
In reply to Re: In a nutshell » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 9:58:25
> >> My understanding of that rule as it evolved is that it's three notifications about a single poster [all from one poster]. And that after the third notification [from one poster] that was found to be civil, future notifications [from that poster about the other poster] might not be investigated. I don't think there's any penalty to the reporter other than that, so I think it's safe for you to use the notification button.>>
I've taken the liberty to add text in brackets to what Dinah said above to try to clarify the rule (at least as I understand it). Caveat: of course it may have changed since I was a deputy. But it's not all notifications about a poster, it's three from an individual poster about another individual poster.
And yes, admin knows who used the notify button, otherwise there would be no way to track this rule.
gg
Posted by fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 11:21:32
In reply to Attempt to clarify » fayeroe, posted by gardenergirl on March 12, 2008, at 10:23:50
Posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2008, at 19:22:49
In reply to Attempt to clarify » fayeroe, posted by gardenergirl on March 12, 2008, at 10:23:50
When you use the notification button your name shows up with a small screen for typing in whats wrong or you feel is wrong like a small babblemail. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2008, at 22:39:57
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob and I discussed this tonight, posted by muffled on March 10, 2008, at 22:26:43
I think I've been pretty self protective in that regard for some time. :(
Muffled, I never did answer your post (and many others I'm sure - I got overwhelmed, and I'm sorry.)
But this post popped up in my mind today at therapy. I was telling my therapist that I've tried all my life to be good and to be civil. But that you are the person who inspired me to want to be more than good and more than civil. You made me want to be generous. Because I've always so admired your generosity of spirit.
I love how you can see all sides of an issue.
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2008, at 22:41:00
In reply to Attempt to clarify » fayeroe, posted by gardenergirl on March 12, 2008, at 10:23:50
Thanks. :)
And you are, of course, correct.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2008, at 12:52:20
In reply to Re: thank you dinah » muffled, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2008, at 12:05:57
> Maybe he cares, but maybe he needs to give his baby to someone else, cuz he not got enuf time to properly care for it :-(
>
> muffledI don't think you're babies. I think you can care for each other, and the deputies can help care for you.
--
> 3. We hear about proposed changes in procedures and rules , not because they are being offered for our consideration, but because a particular deputy finds them unacceptable. No organization would survive very long using indirect tactics like this.
>
> For me, participating here is not exactly a matter of remaining safe. It is more a matter of feeling respected and valued as one among many people who share the joys, sorrows, victories and setbacks of their personal journeys.
>
> twinleafI'm sorry you and others didn't feel cared for or treated respectfully. But at the same time, I think lots of organizations discuss proposed changes first among a few people and only later more widely.
--
> I worry that notifications may not be made on incivility towards posters that people are annoyed with or even justifiably angry with. I worry that well liked posters won't often be reported while posters who are less popular might be reported quite frequently.
Those are concerns of mine, too. It might not work to wait if very unpopular, or very popular, posters are involved. Those situations might need to be exceptions.
> I worry that posters who are pbc'd or blocked will realize that it's because someone turned them in, and all the anger now reserved for admin will be turned instead to fellow posters. I worry that this won't lead to a more supportive site.
>
> DinahI understand those concerns, too. But I think there would still be plenty of anger directed at us, since we'd still be the ones actually posting the PBC or doing the blocking. And we've had the notification button for a while already, has it been an issue yet whether a PBC or block has resulted from someone using it?
I see notifying us as pro-community (helping to keep Babble civil) rather than anti-poster (getting someone in trouble). I also think that the more people who take responsibility for a community, the stronger that community will be.
Bob
Posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 0:23:10
In reply to Re: his baby, posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2008, at 12:52:20
> > Maybe he cares, but maybe he needs to give his baby to someone else, cuz he not got enuf time to properly care for it :-(
> >
> > muffled
>
> I don't think you're babies. I think you can care for each other, and the deputies can help care for you.*Oh MAN!!! I wasn't meaning that you thot WE was babies but that BABBLE is your baby....ROFL!!
I was trying to say that if you(Bob) do not have enuf time to properly care for babble, then you should turn the administration of this site to someone else who is more available to be more CONSISTANT.> > 3. We hear about proposed changes in procedures and rules , not because they are being offered for our consideration, but because a particular deputy finds them unacceptable. No organization would survive very long using indirect tactics like this.
> >
> > For me, participating here is not exactly a matter of remaining safe. It is more a matter of feeling respected and valued as one among many people who share the joys, sorrows, victories and setbacks of their personal journeys.
> >
> > twinleaf
>
> I'm sorry you and others didn't feel cared for or treated respectfully. But at the same time, I think lots of organizations discuss proposed changes first among a few people and only later more widely.*This is NOT lotsa organizations, this is BABBLE, and its an open forum so its its hard when the admin is so not keeping us in the loop. Cuz we used to being in the loop bout most of each others stuff here.
> > I worry that notifications may not be made on incivility towards posters that people are annoyed with or even justifiably angry with. I worry that well liked posters won't often be reported while posters who are less popular might be reported quite frequently.
>
> Those are concerns of mine, too. It might not work to wait if very unpopular, or very popular, posters are involved. Those situations might need to be exceptions.*I gather this is an evolving thing this new policy??
> > I worry that posters who are pbc'd or blocked will realize that it's because someone turned them in, and all the anger now reserved for admin will be turned instead to fellow posters. I worry that this won't lead to a more supportive site.
> >
> > Dinah
>
> I understand those concerns, too. But I think there would still be plenty of anger directed at us, since we'd still be the ones actually posting the PBC or doing the blocking. And we've had the notification button for a while already, has it been an issue yet whether a PBC or block has resulted from someone using it?*I have FAITH in fairness of deps!
> I see notifying us as pro-community (helping to keep Babble civil) rather than anti-poster (getting someone in trouble). I also think that the more people who take responsibility for a community, the stronger that community will be.
>
> Bob*EWWWWWWWWWW!
But I have to agree w/Bob on this one.....
I MUCH prefer to diss him....oh well...
M
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2008, at 10:38:16
In reply to Re: his baby » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 0:23:10
> > I don't think you're babies. I think you can care for each other, and the deputies can help care for you.
>
> *Oh MAN!!! I wasn't meaning that you thot WE was babies but that BABBLE is your baby....ROFL!!OK, but I don't think Babble is a baby anymore, either. I think it can do a lot to care for itself. But I do also understand that it would help if I were more consistent.
> I gather this is an evolving thing this new policy??
Yes, it's definitely an evolving thing, and I wouldn't even call it a policy yet, I'd call it a proposal.
> I have FAITH in fairness of deps!
Thanks, I do, too.
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on March 28, 2008, at 13:02:54
In reply to Re: his baby, posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2008, at 10:38:16
"OK, but I don't think Babble is a baby anymore, either. I think it can do a lot to care for itself. But I do also understand that it would help if I were more consistent."
I am a substitute teacher at the big prison here and the motto there is "firm, fair and consistent".
Consistency from you would really go a very long way here. An even "keel" is reassuring to anyone and particulary people with mental health issues.
Thanks for making that admission, Dr.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 14:17:40
In reply to Re: his baby » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on March 28, 2008, at 13:02:54
> I am a substitute teacher at the big prison here and the motto there is "firm, fair and consistent".
>
> Consistency from you would really go a very long way here. An even "keel" is reassuring to anyone and particulary people with mental health issues.
>
> Thanks for making that admission, Dr.You're welcome, and I like that motto. I think the administration here is always firm, fair, and consistent, but my presence does seem to make a difference:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs/820304.html
I have the idea that it can be hard for substitute teachers. And the deputies here are kind of in that position.
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on March 30, 2008, at 15:42:47
In reply to Re: substitute teachers, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 14:17:40
> > I am a substitute teacher at the big prison here and the motto there is "firm, fair and consistent".
> >
> > Consistency from you would really go a very long way here. An even "keel" is reassuring to anyone and particulary people with mental health issues.
> >
> > Thanks for making that admission, Dr.
>
> You're welcome, and I like that motto. I think the administration here is always firm, fair, and consistent, but my presence does seem to make a difference:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs/820304.html
>
> I have the idea that it can be hard for substitute teachers. And the deputies here are kind of in that position.
>
> Bobsubstitute teaching isn't hard for me. when i walk in, i own that class. i let them know what my expectations are, up front, and let them know that if they don't meet them...i will write them a case and then they go before security.
there is structure in a prison. it is totally up to the substitute to maintain an orderly classroom. no one told me that, it's just the way i operate there.
i also make it very clear that i am there to help them learn and that it goes both ways...if they learn, so do i.
seems to me that being a deputy could be very close to being a sub. it is an individual thing here and in a prison.
one major difference is that a deputy will never be taken hostage and there is a very good chance that someone might try that there. :-) (i took self defense classes before i would agree to be in the classrooms) :-)
Posted by Dinah on March 30, 2008, at 16:04:31
In reply to Re: substitute teachers » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on March 30, 2008, at 15:42:47
> substitute teaching isn't hard for me. when i walk in, i own that class. i let them know what my expectations are, up front, and let them know that if they don't meet them...i will write them a case and then they go before security.
Is that what people would like here?
Dr. Bob's idea is moving in the other direction. Deputies are to ignore anything they see unless something is reported to them.
So expectations can be set, but posters know that if they don't meet them, absolutely nothing will be done unless they themselves complain.
Posted by fayeroe on March 30, 2008, at 16:09:42
In reply to Re: substitute teachers » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on March 30, 2008, at 16:04:31
"substitute teaching isn't hard for me. when i walk in, i own that class. i let them know what my expectations are, up front, and let them know that if they don't meet them...i will write them a case and then they go before security."
i was talking to Bob.
Posted by Dinah on March 30, 2008, at 16:11:16
In reply to Re: substitute teachers » Dinah, posted by fayeroe on March 30, 2008, at 16:09:42
Posted by 10derHeart on March 30, 2008, at 23:20:19
In reply to ok (nm) » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on March 30, 2008, at 16:11:16
Posted by muffled on March 30, 2008, at 23:45:56
In reply to Re: substitute teachers » fayeroe, posted by Dinah on March 30, 2008, at 16:04:31
> > substitute teaching isn't hard for me. when i walk in, i own that class. i let them know what my expectations are, up front, and let them know that if they don't meet them...i will write them a case and then they go before security.
*wow thats good!!! Not all subs are good at that. I remember in HS we sent many a sub away crying :-(
Also, in some schools, you can lay down the law, and send problems to admin(principal) but not a whole lot happens.....they just come back.....and act up again....and again, and again...
Sigh. Its good you got good back up at the jail.
> Is that what people would like here?*well...clarity is good...
But its hard to be clear here I am discovering...
> Dr. Bob's idea is moving in the other direction. Deputies are to ignore anything they see unless something is reported to them.*Even if it blatant ? Well, I guess thats where we babblers need to step in.....
> So expectations can be set, but posters know that if they don't meet them, absolutely nothing will be done unless they themselves complain.*again, I don't mind this so much in that it gives it time to sort itself out first.
And then I guess what babblers then need to do is learn to really think before they report a post....think to themselves...have I tried to help? or is it not possible? Is someone getting hurt here? Am I going to stand and watch or call for help?
Etc.
Good questions dinah. Brings forth discussion, and I for one (apparently?!?!I been spewing forth my opinion all over....) like to discuss to better understand whats happening here...
I have always felt that when I post on the board its open to all to reply to my post. I hope all feel free to do so as I am eager to learn.
I think I must be annoying the hoo hoo outta everyone. I do this from time to time. I allasudden realize I been so freakin riddiculous and full of myself and then I shut up.
I will soon, promise.
Take care babblers,
M
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 31, 2008, at 18:52:42
In reply to Re: substitute teachers » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on March 30, 2008, at 15:42:47
> substitute teaching isn't hard for me. when i walk in, i own that class. i let them know what my expectations are, up front, and let them know that if they don't meet them...i will write them a case and then they go before security.
>
> there is structure in a prison. it is totally up to the substitute to maintain an orderly classroom. no one told me that, it's just the way i operate there.
>
> seems to me that being a deputy could be very close to being a sub. it is an individual thing here and in a prison.
>
> one major difference is that a deputy will never be taken hostage and there is a very good chance that someone might try that there. :-)Another difference is that posters are free to go.
I do see it as up to me to maintain an orderly board. I often find it hard. How do you think I would do in prison?
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on March 31, 2008, at 19:03:41
In reply to Re: substitute teachers, posted by Dr. Bob on March 31, 2008, at 18:52:42
> > substitute teaching isn't hard for me. when i walk in, i own that class. i let them know what my expectations are, up front, and let them know that if they don't meet them...i will write them a case and then they go before security.
> >
> > there is structure in a prison. it is totally up to the substitute to maintain an orderly classroom. no one told me that, it's just the way i operate there.
> >
> > seems to me that being a deputy could be very close to being a sub. it is an individual thing here and in a prison.
> >
> > one major difference is that a deputy will never be taken hostage and there is a very good chance that someone might try that there. :-)
>
> Another difference is that posters are free to go.
>
> I do see it as up to me to maintain an orderly board. I often find it hard. How do you think I would do in prison?
>
> Bob
I don't think that you would be as good at it as I am.It takes every sense that I have to operate in a classroom. I listen, I mirror back what the offender says and I then talk with them about finding a solution for their problems.
I watch them every minute I am with them.
I speak when I see that I need to and I always let them know when they have accomplished something positive.
I never let anyone get behind me. I've never had to call for "back-up". (officers)
I don't write as many cases as there are PBCs here.
And I've never banned an offender from my class. I don't believe in throwing someone out unless they are threatening to another offender or myself. How will they learn if they are back in their cell?
The offender is free to go in two years, if they behave themselves. That is different from Babble. Here we can stay around, unless we get blocked for a year.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 2, 2008, at 1:09:19
In reply to Re: substitute teachers, posted by fayeroe on March 31, 2008, at 19:03:41
> I don't think that you would be as good at it as I am.
I don't think so, either!
> It takes every sense that I have to operate in a classroom. I listen, I mirror back what the offender says and I then talk with them about finding a solution for their problems.
>
> I speak when I see that I need to and I always let them know when they have accomplished something positive.I think approaches like those could be useful here, too.
> The offender is free to go in two years, if they behave themselves. That is different from Babble. Here we can stay around, unless we get blocked for a year.
And even then, you can come back.
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on April 2, 2008, at 12:17:44
In reply to Re: substitute teachers, posted by Dr. Bob on April 2, 2008, at 1:09:19
> > I don't think that you would be as good at it as I am.
>
> I don't think so, either!
>
> > It takes every sense that I have to operate in a classroom. I listen, I mirror back what the offender says and I then talk with them about finding a solution for their problems.
> >
> > I speak when I see that I need to and I always let them know when they have accomplished something positive.
>
> I think approaches like those could be useful here, too.Yes, I think the posters would like positive feedback frequently.
>
> > The offender is free to go in two years, if they behave themselves. That is different from Babble. Here we can stay around, unless we get blocked for a year.
>
> And even then, you can come back.In the case of the offenders, they can come back too. :-) The recidivism rate for men is 80% and for women it is 30%. The women usually have more incentive to stay clean.
This prison is minimal security and they are on their last two years.....when they do go back, it isn't to a minimal system, it is Huntsville or Gatesville. (bad, bad places)
I just thought of something, there is something at the prison called "ad seg" (administrative segregation) and it is solitary. So, they do get blocked and banned. Sometimes up to 14 days if they are really bad.
These are FELONS, if they are only punished for such a short length of time, how about considering that for posters here? The warden told me that nothing is accomplished after two weeks with an offender..except they come out angrier than before.
As for "coming back here", some posters are too hurt and angry to come back.
>
> Bob
Posted by muffled on April 2, 2008, at 16:06:32
In reply to Re: substitute teachers » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on April 2, 2008, at 12:17:44
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2008, at 9:03:38
In reply to Re: substitute teachers » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on April 2, 2008, at 12:17:44
> I just thought of something, there is something at the prison called "ad seg" (administrative segregation) and it is solitary. So, they do get blocked and banned. Sometimes up to 14 days if they are really bad.
>
> These are FELONS, if they are only punished for such a short length of time, how about considering that for posters here? The warden told me that nothing is accomplished after two weeks with an offender..except they come out angrier than before.I think that one day online is different than one day in real life. And of course that being blocked here is different than being in solitary.
What does someone have to do to get ad seg? And what happens if they come out after 14 days and do the same thing again?
> As for "coming back here", some posters are too hurt and angry to come back.
I understand, ag seg is no fun. That's why I'm glad we're discussing suggestions and solutions.
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2008, at 10:52:53
In reply to Re: substitute teachers, posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2008, at 9:03:38
> > I just thought of something, there is something at the prison called "ad seg" (administrative segregation) and it is solitary. So, they do get blocked and banned. Sometimes up to 14 days if they are really bad.
> >
> > These are FELONS, if they are only punished for such a short length of time, how about considering that for posters here? The warden told me that nothing is accomplished after two weeks with an offender..except they come out angrier than before.
>
> I think that one day online is different than one day in real life. And of course that being blocked here is different than being in solitary.How is one day online different than one day in real life? Sorrow, pain, confused, happy, angry, acting out, feeling lost, success, celebration, rejection, acceptance,fighting, stealing, etc. etc. It's all there.
>
> What does someone have to do to get ad seg? And what happens if they come out after 14 days and do the same thing again?I have a book that is divided into sections and each section deals with different infractions. For instance 25.1 (a) is refusing to come to class. The rules for the offenders are very clear cut and everyone gets a copy of "offender conduct"...
To get into "ad seg", the prisoner could be caught trafficking and trading (trading stamps, food, paper and other things that aren't suitable to describe in a "family friendly forum"), fighting, disobeying rules,stealing, lying, passing kites, etc.
However, the rules have to be broken several times before they go to solitary.
The male side is always full but the female side generally only has one or two offenders in ad seg cells. (The males fight more because there are 7 gangs in their units...crips, mexican mafia, aryan brothers, bloods, etc.) Only two gangs on the female side and they are aryan sisters and mexican mafia.
Trafficking and trading can also involve gambling on sports.
Back to ad seg, it takes alot to get in there. There are disciplinary actions such as extra work duty, no library privileges, cell isolation and no visitation with friends or relatives. Going to seg is a very serious thing. The prisoner's record (in this unit) is always taken into consideration and a Captain makes the decision.
Of course some prisoners get into trouble again after being in ad seg. There are, in every pod, people who are troubled and they act out alot. There are four units and five pods in each unit. 25 cells in each pod, with two offenders in every cell. 1000 offenders in this unit.
After three times in seg, they are shipped out to a heavy duty prison and they lose their good time that they had accumulated to get to this facility.
As I've already said, I think your blocks are too long and punish people when they don't deserve it. It isn't fair to have a block forumla that the majority of the posters doesn't understand because I think it causes mistrust and confusion here.
Just as the offenders have to trust me before we can make any headway in our relationships, the posters have to trust administration. If a prisoner is always looking at me thinking, "I wonder what she is going to pull next", I am not going to have a very happy and productive student.
AND in no way, do I consider the posters here in the same light as offenders. Being in prison and being part of Babble is definitely very different. > >
As for "coming back here", some posters are too hurt and angry to come back.
>
> I understand, ag seg is no fun. That's why I'm glad we're discussing suggestions and solutions.Just as ad seg is no fun, neither is being blocked from your "family" here. When an offender is removed from the general population, they are losing their support system .
>
> Bob
Posted by muffled on April 4, 2008, at 14:23:02
In reply to Re: substitute teachers » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2008, at 10:52:53
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 6, 2008, at 19:42:05
In reply to Re: substitute teachers » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on April 3, 2008, at 10:52:53
> > I think that one day online is different than one day in real life.
What I was thinking was, people only spend part of each day here, and maybe not even part of every day, so being blocked from Babble for a day wouldn't affect them like being in solitary for a day.
> I have a book that is divided into sections and each section deals with different infractions. For instance 25.1 (a) is refusing to come to class. The rules for the offenders are very clear cut and everyone gets a copy of "offender conduct"...
So everyone agrees with how infractions are handled?
> To get into "ad seg", the prisoner could be caught trafficking and trading (trading stamps, food, paper and other things that aren't suitable to describe in a "family friendly forum"), fighting, disobeying rules,stealing, lying, passing kites, etc.
>
> However, the rules have to be broken several times before they go to solitary.
>
> The male side is always full but the female side generally only has one or two offenders in ad seg cells. (The males fight more because there are 7 gangs in their units...crips, mexican mafia, aryan brothers, bloods, etc.) Only two gangs on the female side and they are aryan sisters and mexican mafia.
>
> Back to ad seg, it takes alot to get in there. There are disciplinary actions such as extra work duty, no library privileges, cell isolation and no visitation with friends or relatives. Going to seg is a very serious thing. The prisoner's record (in this unit) is always taken into consideration and a Captain makes the decision.
>
> Of course some prisoners get into trouble again after being in ad seg. There are, in every pod, people who are troubled and they act out alot.
>
> After three times in seg, they are shipped out to a heavy duty prison and they lose their good time that they had accumulated to get to this facility.Thanks for the glimpse into your world. There seem to be some similarities. And thankfully lots of differences. Including being free of gangs!
> Just as the offenders have to trust me before we can make any headway in our relationships, the posters have to trust administration. If a prisoner is always looking at me thinking, "I wonder what she is going to pull next", I am not going to have a very happy and productive student.
But some offenders do feel mistrustful of you no matter what?
> Just as ad seg is no fun, neither is being blocked from your "family" here. When an offender is removed from the general population, they are losing their support system .
I understand. Do offenders ever try to help each other stay out of ad seg? That would be a form of support.
Bob
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