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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 217 to 241 of 275. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:56:10
In reply to PBC Bob......calling me impotent......, posted by muffled on June 11, 2006, at 22:12:52
> I think, FWIW, you ought to leave the option in place to allow a graceful withdrawal and save insistence for any cases where "Please rephrase" and withdrawals have been used so extensively that you believe insistence on a rephrase to be more appropriate.
>
> DinahThat sounds reasonable to me, do others agree?
--
> > If one person likes the Cubs and another person says they prefer the White Sox, I'd consider that a disagreement. If the first person is a real fan, they may be offended (caused to feel vexation or resentment by violation of what they consider proper or fitting). But I wouldn't consider the second person to have been insensitive or disrespectful. Saying the first person's team stinks I wouldn't consider sensitive, however, and saying the first person shouldn't be a fan I wouldn't consider respectful.
>
> But Alex was blocked for saying "I think the world would be better without religion"
>
> That statement is similarSorry, similar to what?
> that is what I sometimes have problems with. Blocks turn into an "I win" instead of allowing adults to come to terms with each other.
>
> AuntieMelI agree, they may, and they may also be more likely when people have difficulty coming to terms with each other...
--
> I'm not hurting NOW, just scared you GONNA hurt me you so and so.
> the problem IS you DO control my potential access to a support network for me.
>
> muffledI think that's a better way of putting it, I have power and you're vulnerable. Which I know can be scary.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:57:26
In reply to defeated by the asterisk machine, posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 17:46:19
> I think Bob is a bully.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on June 12, 2006, at 8:42:07
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:56:10
>
> > > If one person likes the Cubs and another person says they prefer the White Sox, I'd consider that a disagreement. If the first person is a real fan, they may be offended (caused to feel vexation or resentment by violation of what they consider proper or fitting). But I wouldn't consider the second person to have been insensitive or disrespectful. Saying the first person's team stinks I wouldn't consider sensitive, however, and saying the first person shouldn't be a fan I wouldn't consider respectful.
> >
> > But Alex was blocked for saying "I think the world would be better without religion"
> >
> > That statement is similar
>
> Sorry, similar to what?Ok, I'll put quotes around it
"I prefer the White Sox over the Cubs" is the semantic equivalent of
"I think the world would be better without religion"If civility is about *how* things are worded (rudely, politely) then those two statements are the same.
>
> > that is what I sometimes have problems with. Blocks turn into an "I win" instead of allowing adults to come to terms with each other.
> >
> > AuntieMel
>
> I agree, they may, and they may also be more likely when people have difficulty coming to terms with each other...
>But - it seems that Alex gets blocked when the two of us get into a discussion. I always feel "discussion interruptus" when this happens because I know the two of us could get somewhere, but I haven't been able to spend much time on line and you get to it before I do.
It could leave people with the perception that I complained to you about her post instead of answering it.
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 9:33:04
In reply to Re: being adults » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on June 12, 2006, at 8:42:07
My impression that an equivilant statement would be that the world would be better off without without the Cubs. Which is implying that the Cubs are somehow harmful to the world. Just as saying the world is a better place with the Cubs in it would imply that the Cubs are beneficial to the world, but doesn't exclude the possibility that the world is also better off for having the White Sox in it. So saying the world is a better place with the Cubs in it is saying nothing disrespectful about the White Sox.
That's different than saying you prefer the Cubs to the White Sox.
An equivilant statement would be "I am an atheist." Or "I choose atheism as my religion." or "Atheism is a better fit with my beliefs." Which doesn't say anything about the unchosen alternative except that you didn't choose it.
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 9:51:00
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:56:10
>>I think that's a better way of putting it, I have power and you're vulnerable. Which I know can be scary.
Bob
Yeah, but ONLY here.
Physically YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME.
I could proly beat you up unless you got some special fighting training.
I just have to know this OK?
That you can't get me, thats all.
Big sigh...:-(
Muffled
Posted by curtm on June 12, 2006, at 10:34:21
In reply to Re: my logical brain is confused, posted by Jakeman on June 11, 2006, at 21:38:56
If there were ever an instance of an appellate system's funtionality and purpose, this would surely be it. This proves that there is no such system in place here.
Posted by curtm on June 12, 2006, at 10:44:39
In reply to Appellate system, posted by curtm on June 12, 2006, at 10:34:21
...if it be the case that there is and never will be a chance for one's sentence to be judged by one's piers, then I can honestly say I don't really care if I ever get blocked. There is no point. I will never intentionally try to get myself blocked, but since there is no clear definition, then I don't really give a shint EITHER.
nuf sed
Posted by teejay on June 12, 2006, at 21:04:59
In reply to Re: ................., posted by curtm on June 12, 2006, at 10:44:39
We are all mere mortals here and all in one way or another trying to enrich and improve our lives ...... I can only assume that the effort you put in suggests you would include yourself in this category of people?
If so, then can you explain to your 'clientelle' who would almost all like to see your block of estelle reversed, why you see fit to ignore the views of the many and steadfastly dig your heals in over this issue eventhough the huge majority thing you have made a mistake.
The sheer length of this thread (and the many follow ups) suggest this issue wont just go away if you ignore it but instead requires a well thought out and careful response from you.
I believe this board deserves more than than you have given it by way of a response so far.
Regards TJ
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 22:19:23
In reply to Come on Dr Bob....................., posted by teejay on June 12, 2006, at 21:04:59
> it seems that Alex gets blocked when the two of us get into a discussion. I always feel "discussion interruptus" when this happens because I know the two of us could get somewhere, but I haven't been able to spend much time on line and you get to it before I do.
>
> It could leave people with the perception that I complained to you about her post instead of answering it.
>
> AuntieMelI suppose, but you could also say you didn't...
--
> > > I think that's a better way of putting it, I have power and you're vulnerable.
>
> Yeah, but ONLY here.
> Physically YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME.
> I could proly beat you up unless you got some special fighting training.
> I just have to know this OK?
> That you can't get me, thats all.
>
> MuffledRight, only here. Every day I'm becoming less and less omnipotent! :-)
--
> can you explain to your 'clientelle' who would almost all like to see your block of estelle reversed, why you see fit to ignore the views of the many and steadfastly dig your heals in over this issue eventhough the huge majority thing you have made a mistake.
>
> Regards TJ> If there were ever an instance of an appellate system's funtionality and purpose, this would surely be it. This proves that there is no such system in place here.
>
> curtmI'm glad that a lot of people are supporting her, that's what this site's about, but I think the guidelines are important, too. The deputies could (in a way) be appealed to...
Bob
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 22:37:34
In reply to Re: getting blocked, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 22:19:23
***Thx for your reply. You still have the power to hurt me. Just not phyically. I don't mind physical pain so much.
I'm glad that a lot of people are supporting her, that's what this site's about, but I think the guidelines are important, too.
***I don't think we are arguing about that guidlines are important. We arguing bout excessive rigidity.
That even though many in the community feel strongly bout something, YOU (omnipotent one) won't change it.The deputies could (in a way) be appealed to...
***Whaddya mean????????????? Are you just sending us on a false mission to take the heat of youself?
Manoman, you shouldn't have been a p-doc, you shoulda been a polititian!
Muffled
Posted by Jakeman on June 12, 2006, at 23:04:24
In reply to Dr. Bob? 3rd request. Re: blocked for 4 weeks, posted by Jakeman on June 4, 2006, at 1:05:55
> Are you willing to reconsider this block?
>
> Respectfully, Jake
>I'm glad that a lot of people are supporting >her, that's what this site's about, but I think >the guidelines are important, too.Bob, I'm a little confused by your answer. Does that mean NO to my question? I'm tend to see things simply and have a need for clear communication.
warm regards, Jake
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
In reply to Re: getting blocked » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 22:37:34
> Thx for your reply. You still have the power to hurt me. Just not phyically.
OK. But I think if we're both careful, that won't actually happen.
> I don't think we are arguing about that guidlines are important. We arguing bout excessive rigidity.
> That even though many in the community feel strongly bout something, YOU (omnipotent one) won't change it.Well, it's kind of moot now, anyway, since she's been blocked again, right?
Bob
Posted by zazenduck on June 13, 2006, at 19:00:25
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
>
>
>
> > I don't think we are arguing about that guidlines are important. We arguing bout excessive rigidity.
> > That even though many in the community feel strongly bout something, YOU (omnipotent one) won't change it.
>
> Well, it's kind of moot now, anyway, since she's been blocked again, right?
>
Wrong.Much of this thread is about changing the blocking POLICY and drastically reducing block lengths.
Posted by curtm on June 13, 2006, at 22:14:16
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
Imagine we all had the power to block you, Dr. Bob. Then imagine we all did. Give me the power to do it. I will do it. I did it, in my world, BOB.
Posted by muffled on June 13, 2006, at 22:32:35
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
> OK. But I think if we're both careful, that won't actually happen.
***they say that bout pregnancy too ;-)
>
> > I don't think we are arguing about that guidlines are important. We arguing bout excessive rigidity.
> > That even though many in the community feel strongly bout something, YOU (omnipotent one) won't change it.
>
> Well, it's kind of moot now, anyway, since she's been blocked again, right?***Aaaaaaaaaaggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
I am talking in the GENERAL sense. Its happened b4. And ALOT of the reason this person was re-blocked was cuz she was angry at the previous block........which to me, and ALOT of others, was questionable.
So its not moot. Its an ongoing problem that has happened b4 and will happen again unless you can get a grip on wha we are TRYING to tell you.
Anyhow, at least you seem to be making some attempt to communicate in your one-liner way....
But really, I don't think your getting what we are trying to say.....
Do YOU think you are?
Can you reflect to me what I have been trying to say, what YOU hear?Muffled
Posted by Jakeman on June 13, 2006, at 23:37:46
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
> Re: blocked for 4 weeks, posted by Jakeman on June 4, 2006, at 1:05:55
> Are you willing to reconsider this block? (Estella)
>
> Respectfully, JakeHi Bob, this thread has had much discussion so I thought I would repost my original question (again) in case it had been overlooked. I apologize if you answered and I missed it. Thanks!
warm regards, Jake
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
In reply to Dr. Bob? 5th request. Re: blocked for 4 weeks, » Dr. Bob, posted by Jakeman on June 13, 2006, at 23:37:46
> > I think if we're both careful, that won't actually happen.
>
> they say that bout pregnancy too ;-):-)
> But really, I don't think your getting what we are trying to say.....
> Do YOU think you are?
> Can you reflect to me what I have been trying to say, what YOU hear?
>
> MuffledWhat I hear is that posters feel (1) hurt and angry when their friends are hurt (for example, by being blocked) and (2) powerless when I insist on doing something they're opposed to. Is that close?
--
> Are you willing to reconsider this block?
>
> JakeYes, but my mind hasn't been changed yet. And I think it's kind of moot now.
Bob
Posted by curtm on June 14, 2006, at 10:26:36
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
> What I hear is that posters feel (1) hurt and angry when their friends are hurt
Whaaat?! I hope you are freakin kidding me. It's not about that, dude. I'll s-p-e-l-l it out for ya.
It is about 1) the fact that WE don't find the original content lacking civility, and 2) the judgement/punishment for civlity violations is inconsistent.
What I hear is that you just don't get it.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 14, 2006, at 13:47:36
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
> >
> What I hear is that posters feel (1) hurt and angry when their friends are hurt (for example, by being blocked) and (2) powerless when I insist on doing something they're opposed to. Is that close?Thanks for responding to muffled's request for reflecting. I think you've got some of it, but I wanted to add my tweaks, box of salt included.
1) I don't think it's just about when a friend is blocked. I think it can be about any block regardless of whether the person is a friend or not.
2) I think powerless is correct. But also perhaps devalued, because I believe that many do not feel as if their questions are adequately addressed in your replies.And I would add 3) Many are not happy with the blocking policy in general. My interpretation of many recent posts is that they are not so much about estella's block in particular, but about wanting to talk about their feelings about the policy and its implementation in general. Estella's recent block, as many blocks do, stimulated these feelings coming out again.
Muffled or others, please feel free to tweak my reflecting here, as I may be missing something or not presenting it just right.
Questions for Dr. Bob:
-Are even you willing to give serious and thoughtful consideration to making more changes to the blocking policy? Because if you are not, then that would be a very useful piece of information for those who are trying so hard to be heard.
-If you are not willing to make any changes at this time, would you consider spelling out in some detail the purposes, intents, and goals of the blocking policy in enough detail so that Babblers can better understand what the policy is there for?
-If you are willing to consider making changes, how would you like to get posters' input and to discuss changes? Some ideas: we could continue to post to a thread, and perhaps someone could periodically summarize ideas so that none get lost and the conversation has some structure to it. (This might help you in replying if info is summarized into one post now and then. Or, we could put together a "task force" or committee who can formulate ideas and proposals, put out those agreed upon to the group for comment, etc. Or the deputies and you can discuss it, although we have in the past without much consensus.
Any other ideas?
gg
Posted by muffled on June 14, 2006, at 15:08:58
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
> What I hear is that posters feel (1) hurt and angry when their friends are hurt (for example, by being blocked) and (2) powerless when I insist on doing something they're opposed to. Is that close?***Well.... not really. Hey this reflecting stuff is cool. Its not just about FEELINGS. Feelings are merely signals that something else is going on (ha, my T would be dancing if she could read that!). Go beyond them and see what we are getting at. WHY the feelings come up.
Think on that one, and GG posted a good post.
Thanks.
Y'know for a p-doc you sure are missing the boat. mebbe you should come talk to me Bob. I'll straighten you out. HA!
> > Are you willing to reconsider this block?
> >
> > Jake
>
> Yes, but my mind hasn't been changed yet. And I think it's kind of moot now.
>
> Bob***IT IS NOT MOOT. You could lift it now. You could say sorry, maybe I shouldn't have been so stuck on rules. You could say I AM REALY open to change, or NOT as the case may be)
I wish I could understand you better... :-(
It don't SEEM like you so bad....
But I just dunno....
Muffled
Posted by AuntieMel on June 14, 2006, at 16:54:44
In reply to What folks have been saying/ideas for using info » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on June 14, 2006, at 13:47:36
Well, I think another thing about Estella's block is that she tried to rephrase. But she ended up saying the same thing, with lot's more explanation.
And she also said she wasn't wanting to put anyone down, and that it was only her opinion.
It just doesn't seem fair to block someone who is trying.
Posted by Jakeman on June 14, 2006, at 19:55:26
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
>
> Yes, but my mind hasn't been changed yet. And I think it's kind of moot now.
>
> BobPretty much sounds like a NO. I guess, I'm not sure. And what makes it moot?
warm regards, Jake
Posted by henrietta on June 14, 2006, at 20:08:52
In reply to What folks have been saying/ideas for using info » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on June 14, 2006, at 13:47:36
Consistency, lack of bias, attention. These are some of the qualities gravely lacking, and frequently and passionately requested. Do it right or don't do it bobster..
Posted by henrietta on June 14, 2006, at 20:17:04
In reply to Re: What folks have been saying/ideas for using info, posted by henrietta on June 14, 2006, at 20:08:52
RESPECT. I think it boils down to that, bob. You demonstrate a marked lack of respect. Inexcusable.
Posted by Tamar on June 15, 2006, at 5:45:06
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:56:10
> I think that's a better way of putting it, I have power and you're vulnerable. Which I know can be scary.
>
> BobI don't know about others, but it's only scary to me when power appears to be exercised capriciously.
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