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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 275. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 23, 2006, at 0:39:10
In reply to Dr. Bob,, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2006, at 7:06:04
> I realize you're busy right now, but could you please review that entire thread?
>
> There appears to be some administrative inconsistency in it, and given that, I think Estella could have misconstrued what was ok to say.
>
> In the interests of fairness, could you look it over again?I'd be happy to. If you could let me know what seems inconsistent to you, that would help... Feel free to email me that if you'd prefer not to post it.
Bob
Posted by teejay on May 23, 2006, at 6:39:12
In reply to Re: administrative inconsistency, posted by Dr. Bob on May 23, 2006, at 0:39:10
I think its quite obvious Dr Bob.
The politics board is pretty much empty but estelle gets blocked and we suddenly have a great lengthy thread on the issue. Its clear to me that people WANT to debate issues but the current rules strangle that debate before it gets going. Nothing like a climate of fear to make people apathetic.
Posted by zazenduck on May 23, 2006, at 7:47:10
In reply to What really hurts us anyway?, posted by Declan on May 22, 2006, at 22:32:33
>
> Anyone feel offended by being called a dangerous primate?Where is Waylong Jennings Bryan when we need him?
Prairie avenger mountain lion Bryan Bryan Bryan Bryan
I'm not offended but I can concieve of some of the people in Bob's head (to use Estellas phrase) being offended. And that's the test isn't it?
I'm not offended because it's just your opinion. Not being offended isn't an endorsement of your opinions.
Posted by ClearSkies on May 23, 2006, at 9:17:47
In reply to Re: What really hurts us anyway? » Declan, posted by zazenduck on May 23, 2006, at 7:47:10
OK, so I have a thing about civility.
For me, the idea with civility is that I don't post anything that I wouldn't say to someone face to face. I have a difficult time restraining myself with what I often read on the Politics board - mostly because if I was with people who said these things out loud, I'd be highly offended, and probably leave the room.
That's why I don't even bother with the board. It's not that the threads are triggering or necessarily a personal affront. It's how the opinions are written - sometimes in an infammatory way. Maybe people feel so strongly that they feel the need to speak in absolutes, but that can be such a dangerous thing. PBCs are issued, and blocks are issued, and I would have thought that these actions would reinforce the civility guidelines.
Please, please - think about how we phrase our thoughts on the Politics board. Do we really feel so strongly about issues that we're willing to express them with such disregard for others' own opinions?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 9:33:59
In reply to Re: administrative inconsistency, posted by Dr. Bob on May 23, 2006, at 0:39:10
> > I realize you're busy right now, but could you please review that entire thread?
> >
> > There appears to be some administrative inconsistency in it, and given that, I think Estella could have misconstrued what was ok to say.
> >
> > In the interests of fairness, could you look it over again?
>
> I'd be happy to. If you could let me know what seems inconsistent to you, that would help... Feel free to email me that if you'd prefer not to post it.
>
> BobIf Bob would explain how this specific occurrence came to result in a blocking, the specific arguments that contributed to the decision that was made, that would be illuminating.
I don't wish to express myself about this, until he expresses himself.
If I knew why he felt this I statement was worthy of this sanction, I could also speak to the debate.
She appeared to have sincerely made an effort to meet the guidelines, IMHO. I recall, very early on in my experience here, falling afoul of the civility standards by failing to express myself in I-statement form. I recall that I obtained more than one opportunity to rephrase, but that was because I was sincerely trying.
I think that sincerely trying, absent any kind of guidance, should not result in a block, in any case. If the student hasn't learned, then the teacher hasn't taught.
Lar
Posted by Sobriquet Style on May 23, 2006, at 10:04:29
In reply to This thread - argh., posted by ClearSkies on May 23, 2006, at 9:17:47
>For me, the idea with civility is that I don't post anything that I wouldn't say to someone face to face.
Thats the exact same idea I try to use too. Its kept me block-free so far.
:-)
~
Posted by verne on May 23, 2006, at 10:07:55
In reply to This thread - argh., posted by ClearSkies on May 23, 2006, at 9:17:47
Remember that movie, "Cool Hand Luke"? Luke's *time outs*, a night in the box, escapes, digging a hole for the Bossman, filling up the same hole for the Bossman, until he finally got his "mind right"?
Insert "civil" for getting one's "mind right", imagine Babble as a kind of camp like the one Luke was in (except the analogy collapses a bit when we consider Luke was in a prison camp and Babble doesn't try to keep anyone prisoner) Nevertheless...
The camp Luke found himself in had rules and punishment just like Babble. Again the analogy breaks down (crashes and burns really) when we consider that Dr Bob is nothing like the Bossman. Although, *some* may think his rules, like the Bossman's, are arbitrary and *crazy making*. How crazy making is digging a hole and filling it up again until you get your mind right?
And even though I've already whipped three dead horses back to life, made metaphors to mix unnaturally, and violated every kind of Logic (except Tarzan's), I push on with my *analogy*. Even stopped clocks tell time twice a day.
Actually, I don't know where I was going with this analogy. I can't count the times I've been reminded of this movie while participating at Babble. Perhaps, someone else can better explain the connection.
Verne
Posted by curtm on May 23, 2006, at 11:02:48
In reply to Re: administrative inconsistency, posted by teejay on May 23, 2006, at 6:39:12
>> I think its quite obvious Dr Bob.
>> The politics board is pretty much empty but estelle gets blocked and we suddenly have a great lengthy thread on the issue. Its clear to me that people WANT to debate issues but the current rules strangle that debate before it gets going. Nothing like a climate of fear to make people apathetic.
Believe it or not, we are adults here and have the ability to control ourselves, even in controversial, volatile situations. If you extinguish the flame bofore shutting off the hot gas, you risk having an explosion. Poof! (charred face, smoking hair)
Posted by Declan on May 23, 2006, at 13:41:23
In reply to This thread - argh., posted by ClearSkies on May 23, 2006, at 9:17:47
Hi All
I think one reason people speak in absolutes on the Politics Board is that politics is more complicated and multifaceted than any other subject under discussion here, and there is only so much time and space.
If the idea is to discuss these issues as you would with a group of diverse people who you don't know well.........mmmmm, well, would you discuss politics at all?
I've been known plenty of (too many?) times to say of a conversation in progress...'O This conversation!" But that wouldn't be civil in a group of people who do not know each other well, would it?
There is so much opportunity with this medium for people to cause each other, and feel, unneccessary hurt because we are not sure of the tone in which the post was written.
The only time I've felt hurt here (that I can with justice complain of) is where I have felt misinterpreted.
Declan
Posted by curtm on May 23, 2006, at 14:26:13
In reply to Re: This thread - argh. » ClearSkies, posted by Declan on May 23, 2006, at 13:41:23
On second thought, if we didn't have religion or politics, we wouldn't have ANYONE to point the finger at!
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2006, at 23:24:10
In reply to Re: administrative inconsistency, posted by Dr. Bob on May 23, 2006, at 0:39:10
Aw heck. I was hoping to get you to do the work. :)
I've got a deadline I have to manage first, and by the time I have time to parse each post, it'll be way too late I'm sure. But I'll give it a shot as soon as I can anyway.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 24, 2006, at 7:21:26
In reply to Re: administrative inconsistency » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2006, at 23:24:10
Posted by AuntieMel on May 24, 2006, at 15:01:02
In reply to Re: thanks (nm) » Dinah, posted by Dr. Bob on May 24, 2006, at 7:21:26
It seems that she was making it perfectly clear that it was her own opinions she was stating.
It sure didn't seem that she was disrespectful of others.
Posted by sleepygirl on May 24, 2006, at 18:48:34
In reply to Re: blocked for 4 weeks, posted by teejay on May 21, 2006, at 18:34:13
that was clearly an opinion, phrased in quite respectful terms
....and as someone else who believes that the world might be a better place without religion-particularly certain aspects of it, this concerns me.
Many people here espouse their religious views as that which might make the world a better place, do we have no room for disagreement?Yeah...that's right! It's my catholic school transference in high gear...and it's all good!
Free Estella!!!!
Posted by teejay on May 24, 2006, at 21:11:24
In reply to Re: thanks (nm) » Dinah, posted by Dr. Bob on May 24, 2006, at 7:21:26
It appears everyone thinks you made an error of judgement blocking estelle over this issue.
How about bowing to democracy? ;-)
TJ
Posted by Damos on May 24, 2006, at 21:35:31
In reply to Re: I don't get it » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on May 24, 2006, at 15:01:02
> It seems that she was making it perfectly clear that it was her own opinions she was stating.
>
> It sure didn't seem that she was disrespectful of others.Couldn't agree more. And that a 4 week block regardless of how it is calculated is considered just and reasonable simply beggars belief.
Posted by Jakeman on May 26, 2006, at 22:21:29
In reply to Re: I don't get it - me either :-( » AuntieMel, posted by Damos on May 24, 2006, at 21:35:31
Dr. Bob:
I realize you have a very difficult job here moderating these boards. Frankly I don't know how you do it along with being a professor. Never mind about that though. In a since, we've had an on-line trial of the accused and most have found her innocent. Do you ever reverse your decesion? For better or worse you are the the final judge in this cyber-community.
warm regards, Jake
Posted by zazenduck on May 27, 2006, at 9:55:18
In reply to Just wondering Dr. Bob, do you have a response?, posted by Jakeman on May 26, 2006, at 22:21:29
"clearly didn't understand PBC and made effort to reply: no"
Drbob I believe you have made an error in this part of your special circumstances. Estella made a very long post trying to reply to your PBC. She tried to make things right with the person who said she was offended. She tried to rephrase and went to some lengths to explain her rephrase.
I think if she had understood your PBC she would have rephrased it to your satisfaction or withdrawn her statement don't you? I predicted your PBC based on past precedent but I don't understand why you object to the rephrase. I don't think anyone else does either. Wouldn't it be fairer to explain clearly what you want before you block someone for 4 weeks?
I hope you take steps to correct this.
Posted by muffled on May 27, 2006, at 18:43:28
In reply to I think you made an error Dr Bob, posted by zazenduck on May 27, 2006, at 9:55:18
Posted by teejay on May 27, 2006, at 20:35:48
In reply to Just wondering Dr. Bob, do you have a response?, posted by Jakeman on May 26, 2006, at 22:21:29
Hiya Jakeman,
I'm left wondering, if Dr Bob was being ignored in this manner by another company or organisation how he would feel? Dr Bob speaks of people 'feeling put down' by things we say but neglects to appreciate that saying nothing can be as much as a put down as saying something unwelcome.
TJ
Posted by Jakeman on May 27, 2006, at 22:37:55
In reply to Re: Just wondering Dr. Bob, do you have a response, posted by teejay on May 27, 2006, at 20:35:48
Hi TJ,
Yes you make a good point. There are many ways to hurt people and be uncivil. Being ignored is one of those.
warm regards, Jake
> Hiya Jakeman,
>
>
Posted by Deneb on May 27, 2006, at 23:48:17
In reply to Re: Just wondering Dr. Bob, do you have a response, posted by Jakeman on May 27, 2006, at 22:37:55
Maybe Dr. Bob needs to ignore us sometimes because he will go insane otherwise.
Maybe Dr. Bob doesn't care as much as we do about certain things.
Maybe Dr. Bob ignores us until we shut-up and forget about the problem.
Maybe Dr. Bob doesn't have the time or desire to consider reversing his decisions.
Maybe Dr. Bob needs to be right the first time every time.
Maybe Dr. Bob tries the best that he can do, but it is still never enough.
I think Dr. Bob cares, but he ignores us sometimes. Maybe he has his reasons. I suspect it's so he doesn't go insane, but that's just me.
Deneb*
Posted by greywolf on May 28, 2006, at 18:43:32
In reply to Re: Just wondering Dr. Bob, do you have a response, posted by Deneb on May 27, 2006, at 23:48:17
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2006, at 11:48:17
In reply to Maybe he's busy (nm) » Deneb, posted by greywolf on May 28, 2006, at 18:43:32
That is so very tolerant of you.
It would be nice, to simply know what aspects of the post warranted a block.
It seems like a simple question.
It seems like something that ought to have a salient answer. The decision was made. The why part ought to be salient.
Meanwhile, while this delay goes on, non-trivial effects are occurring. She is still blocked. Her sentence was not suspended, pending re-examination.
The decision to not reply to these questions is indeed a decision. It is not the absence of a decision, at all.
Bob has chosen to silently persist in this.
I do not wish to absolve him.
Lar
Posted by greywolf on May 29, 2006, at 22:31:55
In reply to Re: Maybe he's busy » greywolf, posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2006, at 11:48:17
> That is so very tolerant of you.
>
> It would be nice, to simply know what aspects of the post warranted a block.
>
> Lar
My post wasn't a defense or a challenge. It was simply an observation.
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