![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 86. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 11:53:29
In addition to researching possible opportunities for civil and administrative relief outlined above, we have developed protocols to classify and quantify Robert Hsiung's interventions here. At some point, we will likely make our findings available for publication. The cause of his complaint to me in this thread, for example, we classified with those where he has objected to members "stating subjective analysis without requisite qualification." We have meticulously collated the data with Hsiung's stated reasons, which most often are related to "making others feel..." We are now plodding through the tedious process of identifying occasions when Hsiung has allowed similar behaviors, as well as patterns in his intervention that correlate to circumstances unrelated for his ostensible reasons for intervention.
Our constitution and centuries of common law recognize the hearing of accusations to be a vital part of civil society. As I stated in my posting above, offered after several friends related to me profound hurt they suffered while attempting to participate in this site, we are researching evidence to present to a civil court, styled perhaps as a class action.
If, or when, we file these complaints, those whose purpose here has included providing support to Robert Hsiung may enjoy the same standing in our prayer for relief as those who have related, here on-line and to us in private correspondence, details of adverse experiences they suffered in relation to the use of this site.
Posted by Toph on October 15, 2004, at 12:07:56
In reply to A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 11:53:29
Mary, after you're done "helping" us here, would you take on Yahoo Bridge, Hearts and Spades. Those sites claim to be for amusement and they cause me nothing but psychic pain and embarassment. Thanks again for your help.
-Toph
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 12:19:51
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations » Mary_Bowers, posted by Toph on October 15, 2004, at 12:07:56
> Mary, after you're done "helping" us here, would you take on Yahoo Bridge, Hearts and Spades. Those sites claim to be for amusement and they cause me nothing but psychic pain and embarassment. Thanks again for your help.
> -TophDo they claim to be interactive medical education sites administered by a physician? If not, our prayer for relief will find no standing in a civil venue. If the stated purpose of the site is gaming, participants probably have been well informed that the site arbitrarily classifies visitors as either winners and losers.
Posted by Toph on October 15, 2004, at 12:35:15
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 12:19:51
How disappointing. We have been looking for someone like you to bring us relief. If must be rewarding to help so many helpless victims as you do.
-Toph
Posted by TofuEmmy on October 15, 2004, at 12:41:48
In reply to A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 11:53:29
Now don't nobody start getting pbc'd over this, eh?
Exhale and, count to 10. Ohhhhmmmmmm.....
emmy
Posted by TofuEmmy on October 15, 2004, at 12:45:56
In reply to Erin Brockovich?!?! Is that really you!??? :-), posted by TofuEmmy on October 15, 2004, at 12:41:48
I got my class action story lines mixed up.
D'oh.
TofuBrain
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 15, 2004, at 12:55:11
In reply to A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 11:53:29
You do realise, that your "action" would quite possibly see this site being shut down.
So, in theory ofcourse, those of us here that will suffer, terribly, through the loss of Psychobabble would be able to bring a class action suit against you for the being cause of the shut down? And thus the cause of much suffering. Do I understand US law correctly?
Thankyou for your time
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 13:59:20
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations » Mary_Bowers, posted by NikkiT2 on October 15, 2004, at 12:55:11
> You do realise, that your "action" would quite possibly see this site being shut down.
>
> So, in theory ofcourse, those of us here that will suffer, terribly, through the loss of Psychobabble would be able to bring a class action suit against you for the being cause of the shut down? And thus the cause of much suffering. Do I understand US law correctly?
>
> Thankyou for your timeIf people would suffer from the site being shut down, that suggests a clinical relationship in which the site is operated to relieve suffering, and primarily to relieve the suffering of those with various mental disorders that otherwise present at a psychiatric clinic or other source of psychopharmaceutical advice.
Administrative or court interventions might not lead to the site being shut down. More likely, considering causes of action would lead to changes in the way the site is administered. If there were to become a case in controversy, a court would weigh Robert Hsiung's right of free speech, and yours, along with any evidence and testimony presented about why somebody, or some group of people, might be need to relieved of suffering the site is causing them.
Courts are reluctant to intervene in the practice of medicine, and most medical disciplinary boards would rather only deal with egregious violations. Action isn't likely, but it is a standard against which we measure this site. My purpose in presenting that information when I did had more to do with showing someone injured by participation in the site that there are a variety of venues to which one may pray for relief.
Among Internet forums such as this one that are associated with clinical settings and that are admininistered by clinicians, my preference, which I believe some of my associaties share, is for the majority, which unlike this one are administered within a chain of command. Effective clinical supervision assures compliance with stated purposes and methodically prevents adverse liabilities among all clients. When the doctor serves images of himself grinning into the web cam while clients post fantasies about wrestling with him in his underpants, somebody is failing to monitor potential liabilities.
In this case, the doctor claims not to be clinically involved with the clients, asserting neither a clinical nor therapeutic intent. But at the top of each page, links suggest further reading about "E-therapy" and "the clinical potential of the Internet." Clearly, to some reasonable persons, that could suggest this message board is a clinical experiment or a practice in E-therapy. That suggestion could easily lead to an expection of the administrative protections available to those who present in a clinical setting symptoms of a personal disorder. A private practice in large virtual group E-therapy does not easily afford those protections.
Posted by Cass on October 15, 2004, at 14:06:31
In reply to A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 11:53:29
I asked you in the previous thread if you are an attorney, and I feel disturbed that you haven't answered.
Posted by verne on October 15, 2004, at 14:11:25
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 13:59:20
You say, "If people would suffer from the site being shut down, that suggests a clinical relationship in which the site is operated to relieve suffering".
If NBC cancels my favorite soap opera and I "suffer" as a result, did I have a "clinical relationship" with them too?
verne
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 14:30:10
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations » Mary_Bowers, posted by verne on October 15, 2004, at 14:11:25
> If NBC cancels my favorite soap opera and I "suffer" as a result, did I have a "clinical relationship" with them too?
>
> verneIs your favorite soap administered by a physician for the purpose of distributing health information?
Posted by partlycloudy on October 15, 2004, at 14:34:10
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations » Mary_Bowers, posted by Cass on October 15, 2004, at 14:06:31
> I asked you in the previous thread if you are an attorney, and I feel disturbed that you haven't answered.
Please respond, Mary Bowers
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 14:37:40
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations » Mary_Bowers, posted by Cass on October 15, 2004, at 14:06:31
> I asked you in the previous thread if you are an attorney, and I feel disturbed that you haven't answered.
Sometimes uncertainty about the validity of the source of information can make us feel uncomfortable. If I were an attorney, would you prefer that I direct you to an Internet site I administer where any information anyone might offer is welcome, true or not, but where information that might make you feel like you are going to lose your case is prohibited?
Posted by Toph on October 15, 2004, at 14:42:21
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 14:30:10
Several local television news stations have physicians that distribute medical information, I hope you will protect me from them as well in case I can't grab my remote in time to protect myself. Thanks Mary.
Posted by partlycloudy on October 15, 2004, at 14:44:37
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations » Cass, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 14:37:40
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 14:52:38
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations, posted by partlycloudy on October 15, 2004, at 14:34:10
If I were an attorney, I would be more limited in what I could offer, at least if I wanted to protect my license. As a common citizen, I can review the standards that apply in the context of circumstances observed and ask how they compare without implying legal advice. One need not be an attorney to understand an average person's role in presenting information about a licensed professional to a review board.
If I were an attorney operating a web discussion about law for people with legal problems, in which my identity as an attorney was a standard feature of daily administrative processes, I would do so in the context of professional obligations that exceed those of others who operate a similar site but who are not lawyers.
Posted by partlycloudy on October 15, 2004, at 14:55:29
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations » partlycloudy, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 14:52:38
Just an average shmoe like me, right?
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 15:00:15
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations, posted by Toph on October 15, 2004, at 14:42:21
> Several local television news stations have physicians that distribute medical information, I hope you will protect me from them as well in case I can't grab my remote in time to protect myself. Thanks Mary.
Do you know of any television station whose liability attorneys would agree to the broadcast of a reality program in which a psychiatrist administers an open-to-the-public self-help group populated largely by people suffering diagnosed psychiatric complaints, but in which the psychiatrist's primary role in the group is to routinely and single-handedly vote people off the island and in which the psychiatrist owns the "island"?
Posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 15:03:17
In reply to So, you are NOT a lawyer » Mary_Bowers, posted by partlycloudy on October 15, 2004, at 14:55:29
> Just an average shmoe like me, right?
Just an average shmoe like any doctor or lawyer.
Posted by partlycloudy on October 15, 2004, at 15:04:41
In reply to Re: So, you are NOT a lawyer » partlycloudy, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 15:03:17
OK, and what is your dx that brought you to this site? I am BipolarII, and suffer also from GAD and panic attacks. I think we would all like to know, Mary.
Posted by Cass on October 15, 2004, at 15:12:53
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations » Cass, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 14:37:40
I feel frustrated that you still haven't answered my question. Are you an attorney? Also, in your posts, you say "we" a lot. Can you tell me who "we" is?
Is the scenario you describe an analogy for Dr. Bob and PsychoBabble? If so, I don't think the analogy holds. You write, "If I were an attorney, would you prefer that I direct you to an Internet site..." Dr. Bob did not direct me to this site. In a previous thread you refer to Dr. Bob recruiting members to this site, but I for one was not recruited. You continue, "...where any information anyone might offer is welcome, true or not..." As a reasonable adult, I know that I have to evaluate all the input I receive from this site with discernment. I believe that there is a question about that on the registration quiz. It is my personal choice to agree or disagree with information on this website. You continue by writing, "...but where information that might make you feel like you are going to lose your case is prohibited?" If this is an analogy for Dr. Bob's PsychoBabble, can you explain what this part of the analogy means? I'm not clear.
Posted by Cass on October 15, 2004, at 15:15:32
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations » Mary_Bowers, posted by Cass on October 15, 2004, at 15:12:53
...but I'd appreciate it if you could reply to the rest of my questions.
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 15, 2004, at 15:25:25
In reply to Re: A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 13:59:20
Its nothing to do with Dr Bob that I would be heart broken to see this site go.
I use another site, totally non-mental health related.. quite quite far from it infact *l* I would also be heartbroken and very upset if that were to suddenly dissapear.
Its the VISITORS that make a website. A website is nothing, absolutaly nothing wihtout its vistors. Its the peopl here I would miss. Having somewhere to go full of people I have got to know and be able to say almost anything and receive support for it. Stuff that I simply can't say else where.
Do each of the people I would miss here have a therapuetic responsibility toward me? Should they be sued for failing me?
Posted by AuntieMel on October 15, 2004, at 15:31:02
In reply to A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 11:53:29
Posted by AuntieMel on October 15, 2004, at 15:31:28
In reply to A civil venue for accusations, posted by Mary_Bowers on October 15, 2004, at 11:53:29
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.