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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on August 20, 2004, at 13:39:32
In reply to Assess the level of depressive symptoms, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 11:24:26
Gosh, Dr. Bob. How does that help *us*? Without some sort of explanation, I can only see that it would help *you* track the average or individual or whatever number over time. Isn't there some guidance you can give for results without being specific enough to diagnose?
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 13:57:32
In reply to Re: Assess the level of depressive symptoms » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on August 20, 2004, at 13:39:32
> How does that help *us*? ... Isn't there some guidance you can give for results without being specific enough to diagnose?
A higher score is worse (more, or more severe, symptoms) and a lower score is better?
In the comments area, you can note what factors might be relevant (medication, therapy, life events, whatever). Sorry, maybe "follow" is a better word than "assess"?
Bob
Posted by chemist on August 20, 2004, at 14:09:27
In reply to Re: Follow the level of depressive symptoms, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 13:57:32
hello there, chemist here....just wanted to note i like the new gizmo, a welcome addition to this site, in my opinion....all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on August 20, 2004, at 14:14:51
In reply to thank, dr. bob... » Dr. Bob, posted by chemist on August 20, 2004, at 14:09:27
Posted by Dinah on August 20, 2004, at 14:18:26
In reply to Re: Follow the level of depressive symptoms, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 13:57:32
it's no good to me for four weeks?
not a huge problem for me, because i have professional help. :) i just think the intro needs to be more clear, if indeed it's not helpful until you retake it weeks later or until you take it weeks and weeks later.
Posted by badhaircut on August 20, 2004, at 14:20:06
In reply to Re: Assess the level of depressive symptoms » Dr. Bob, posted by Slinky on August 20, 2004, at 12:51:48
> (Slinky) I know it's not a diagnosis but what does the overall score mean?
"Your score will be in the range of 0 to 60. If your total is 16 or greater, you may have experienced some depression in the past week. This scale should be used simply as an indicator of the degree of depression in your life..." From http://www.mhhe.com/hper/health/personalhealth/labs/Stress/activ2-2.html (Other sites & abstracts give the same numbers.)
You can also do the test on pencil & paper privately without recording your scores at PB. There's a MS-Word version at http://providers.ipro.org/dox/AMI_Depression/DOC/Center_Epidemiologic.doc . Others, including Spanish & 10-item versions, can be found by Googling "CES-D".
> (Dinah) How does that help *us*? Without some sort of explanation, I can only see that it would help *you* track the average or individual or whatever number over time.
That appears to be why it was created, many years ago, by NIMH: just to track how depression was spreading nationally.
I know people have occasionally asked, "How do I know if I'm getting better?" (Dazedandconfused asked it last year http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030902/msgs/256395.html.) I suggested David Burns' shorter test, which has similar scores and gives more feedback, for what that's worth.
I used to do Burns' test, but "Am I getting better?" is not something I usually have doubts about. So far I'm still not.
But I like having the automatic tracking available here, especially with the notes box. I might use it from time to time. (Thanks, Bob.)
-bhc
Posted by Dinah on August 20, 2004, at 14:30:41
In reply to 16+ = probable depression, posted by badhaircut on August 20, 2004, at 14:20:06
Ahhh, thank you. :) Much more helpful.
Posted by badhaircut on August 20, 2004, at 15:06:31
In reply to but higher than what?, posted by Dinah on August 20, 2004, at 14:18:26
> i just think the intro needs to be more clear
I agree. Any person taking an assessment should be informed (like in "informed consent"), even if she's anonymous.
A brief intro could include:
–the test's origins & uses in other settings
–an example of how a person could use it here
–plain language about how it *shouldn't* be used
–maybe links for further info about psychometrics in general
–explicit statements about privacy & data ownership. We're told our posts are fair game for Bob's use, but are these scores, too? Could our scores be compared to our posting frequency, for example, and then published by Bob?I think really simple language is key. Especially for newbies to depression, terms like "diagnosis" versus "assessment" and "tracking" are a foreign language.
I think it will be a good addition to PB -- just my 2˘ about tweaking it.
-bhc
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 20, 2004, at 16:04:54
In reply to agreed: intro needed, posted by badhaircut on August 20, 2004, at 15:06:31
This is simmilar to a test I take with my psychologist every month.. would be nice to track my it on my own too!
Thanks!
Posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 16:16:03
In reply to I like it, posted by NikkiT2 on August 20, 2004, at 16:04:54
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 21, 2004, at 5:05:53
In reply to I like it, posted by NikkiT2 on August 20, 2004, at 16:04:54
> > If your total is 16 or greater, you may have experienced some depression in the past week.
>
> You can also do the test on pencil & paper privately without recording your scores at PB.
>
> > i just think the intro needs to be more clear
>
> I agree.
>
> A brief intro could include:
>
> –explicit statements about privacy & data ownership. We're told our posts are fair game for Bob's use, but are these scores, too? Could our scores be compared to our posting frequency, for example, and then published by Bob?
>
> badhaircutI didn't mention 16 because I thought that might be too close to diagnosis. This is far from the only way to track oneself. And that's a good point about privacy -- and a good research idea! :-)
Thanks for the feedback, I've revised the introduction (and included a link to this thread). Better?
> This is simmilar to a test I take with my psychologist every month.. would be nice to track my it on my own too!
>
> NikkiT2I thought if people wanted to take it regularly, the server could email them reminders, but one step at a time...
Bob
Posted by slinky on August 21, 2004, at 20:12:27
In reply to Re: revisions, posted by Dr. Bob on August 21, 2004, at 5:05:53
I don't think anyone on this planet could get under 16 without the help of illegal substances but I'm cynical?
Posted by chemist on August 21, 2004, at 20:17:31
In reply to Re: revisions » Dr. Bob, posted by slinky on August 21, 2004, at 20:12:27
>
> I don't think anyone on this planet could get under 16 without the help of illegal substances but I'm cynical?hey slinky....i got a 2, and nothing illegal happening here, although overstimulation might be to blame!!! all the best, chemist
Posted by AuntieMel on August 21, 2004, at 21:15:48
In reply to Re: revisions » slinky, posted by chemist on August 21, 2004, at 20:17:31
I got a 35. With the help of a lot of legal drugs.
oh, well.
Posted by Dinah on August 21, 2004, at 23:23:19
In reply to Re: scores, posted by AuntieMel on August 21, 2004, at 21:15:48
gotcha beat. i'm 41. but i never know how to answer those things, so my scores are always suspect.
Posted by Dinah on August 21, 2004, at 23:23:45
In reply to Re: revisions » slinky, posted by chemist on August 21, 2004, at 20:17:31
I'm impressed!
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2004, at 7:45:07
In reply to Assess the level of depressive symptoms, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 11:24:26
> Hi, everyone,
>
> Here's something new, a way to assess the level of depressive symptoms. The idea is to help you track your progress over time, *not* to make a diagnosis.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/ces-d.pl
>
> Give it a try? I've turned off the restriction on how often you can repeat it. If it's going to stay, I'll erase any data that's submitted now and start over. OK? Let me know what you think...
>
> BobI like having this tool so readily available here. I like the format.
I scored a 7, but even those points are actually more of a reflection of the fact that I have chronic fatigue syndrome, which affects energy and sleep, too.
Thanks, Bob.
Lar
Posted by chemist on August 22, 2004, at 17:20:28
In reply to Re: revisions » chemist, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2004, at 23:23:45
> I'm impressed!
well, thank the dexedrine/coffee and start of the new semester: in short time, my students will wear me down, be assured...300 young people forced to take chemistry, and not one of them wants to...by friday next, i'll be batting 50-60......all the best, tjm
Posted by Lonely on August 23, 2004, at 1:09:19
In reply to Assess the level of depressive symptoms, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 11:24:26
Sheesh, I scored quite high but at the same time, I found it a little difficult because I had to keep scrolling up to see the categories/classifications. It was a tad difficult to see where I had placed the dot. I'd like the font to be a bit larger to see it easier. Also, if I was having a rollicking good time in life I probably wouldn't be at the board so that slightly skews the results. No doubt that's part of the point as Dr. Bob pointed out -follow progress.
In some ways, I thought the questions were better and more insightful than other depression test questions I have seen - maybe the Hamilton? I've never taken a depression test in/for a medical environment - just online, out of curiosity.
> Hi, everyone,
>
> Here's something new, a way to assess the level of depressive symptoms. The idea is to help you track your progress over time, *not* to make a diagnosis.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/ces-d.pl
>
> Give it a try? I've turned off the restriction on how often you can repeat it. If it's going to stay, I'll erase any data that's submitted now and start over. OK? Let me know what you think...
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2004, at 17:36:48
In reply to Re: Assess the level of depressive symptoms » Dr. Bob, posted by Lonely on August 23, 2004, at 1:09:19
> I found it a little difficult because I had to keep scrolling up to see the categories/classifications. It was a tad difficult to see where I had placed the dot. I'd like the font to be a bit larger to see it easier.
Hmm, I guess with "frames", the categories could stay visible, let me try that out myself...
The dot was too small to click easily, or it was hard to tell which ones were clicked and which ones weren't?
The font should be the default. Do you find most web page text a little small?
Thanks for the feedback! I've gone ahead and reset the data file and removed the "beta" designation.
Bob
Posted by badhaircut on August 23, 2004, at 17:48:47
In reply to Re: feedback, posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2004, at 17:36:48
>> I found it a little difficult because I had to keep scrolling up to see the categories/classifications.
> Hmm, I guess with "frames", the categories could stay visible...I noticed that some CES-D sites repeat the category row every 5 questions or so. That might be simpler than frames.
-bhc
Posted by Lonely on August 23, 2004, at 21:14:05
In reply to Re: feedback, posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2004, at 17:36:48
I just went back to the test to re-check ... how does one view "in frames"? On the test page I didn't see an indicator for frames.
Also, I'm still seeing that the "categories" or "classifications" (what is the correct term?) are only at the top and by the time I'm 1/3 of the way down the page they're not viewable. Quite possibly it's due to the ISP or the way my PC is set up? I'm told that different systems present things differently on the screen depending on their set-up.
Clicking the dot was not a problem ... perhaps for someone with palsy or some other condition it might be but I was okay there. It was seeing it, especially while thinking and trying to remember the headings that it was, in a very minor sense, almost "dizzifying." It's kind've like looking at polka dots. Also, the actual dot itself (not the little circle that holds the dot) is so small it really is hard to see without consciously looking. Scanning is difficult. Consciously looking is a distractor when trying to think about the questions/statements and conditions.
Re fonts hard to see ... well, when I read the responses on the message boards I'm just fine. This window is possibly ever so slightly small(where I'm writing the posting) but even so can see it okay. I do have a vision problem but unless a font is *very* small can usually see okay. There's something about dots that's different - they're not a "normal" part of reading ... i.e., I guess there's no flow as there is in text.
> > I found it a little difficult because I had to keep scrolling up to see the categories/classifications. It was a tad difficult to see where I had placed the dot. I'd like the font to be a bit larger to see it easier.
>
> Hmm, I guess with "frames", the categories could stay visible, let me try that out myself...
>
> The dot was too small to click easily, or it was hard to tell which ones were clicked and which ones weren't?
>
> The font should be the default. Do you find most web page text a little small?
>
> Thanks for the feedback! I've gone ahead and reset the data file and removed the "beta" designation.
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 24, 2004, at 17:58:48
In reply to Re: feedback » Dr. Bob, posted by Lonely on August 23, 2004, at 21:14:05
> I just went back to the test to re-check ... how does one view "in frames"? On the test page I didn't see an indicator for frames.
Sorry, I didn't make it an option, I was just going to test it myself... But here's another idea. What if the heading shows up as a "tool tip" if you move your mouse over a circle? It should do that now, give it a try...
> the actual dot itself (not the little circle that holds the dot) is so small it really is hard to see without consciously looking.
Sorry, but I don't think I have any control over how big the dot is. I think it's standard, the same size on all "forms".
> This window is possibly ever so slightly small(where I'm writing the posting)
Did you know you could make it larger? The window itself, not the text in the window:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#settings
Bob
Posted by Lonely on August 24, 2004, at 21:35:47
In reply to Re: feedback, posted by Dr. Bob on August 24, 2004, at 17:58:48
>What if the heading shows up as a "tool tip" if you move your mouse >over a circle? It should do that now, give it a try...
I did ... and it's better. I realized as I was experimenting that to some extent I (a) read the responses (b) make a brief comparison between the different levels of responses (c) respond when a phrase seems to match my perception because the other choices were less appropriate. This way I don't get to see all the different levels of choices together (like I can when I see the headings) that I'd like for my (b) comparison, but this is certainly better, especially since I know it's there now and can hold the cursor over the circle.
> Sorry, but I don't think I have any control over how big the dot is. I think it's standard, the same size on all "forms".
I don't have any insight into the technicalities behind all this (a good thing for me to learn, though!) but I would think that forms can be altered. Probably depends on software, though and maybe some compatability issues. But, that's outside my knowledge realm. So, this is probably the way it is as you've mentioned.
> Did you know you could make it larger? The window itself, not the text in the window:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#settingsOh, I didn't know but have done it now. It's nice to have the bigger window to write in! Thanks!
Posted by 4WD on September 1, 2004, at 19:43:20
In reply to Assess the level of depressive symptoms, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 11:24:26
What am I doing wrong? I choose the option to "assess" click on the choose option button and am immediately returned to the original screen?
Marsha
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