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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 28 to 52 of 193. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2004, at 17:14:34
In reply to Re: But he was *blocked* so what !, posted by stjames on January 5, 2004, at 12:46:45
> The block has nothing to do with what we are talking about:
>We don't know that. When someone has committed multiple blockable offenses, Dr. Bob doesn't necessarily elucidate every one of them when handing out the block.
The only way you would know if Dr. Bob would have let overgeneralizations go is if that was the *only* thing the poster had done, and nothing was done about it. I find that hard to believe, since poor Clayton was blocked for a mild bit of hyperbole about Effexor. Mind you, I objected to the block over Effexor, so I'm not sure how I feel about blocking someone for their opinions about drugs.
Posted by stjames on January 5, 2004, at 17:20:33
In reply to Re: But he was *blocked* so what !, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2004, at 17:14:34
> > The block has nothing to do with what we are talking about:
> >
>
> We don't know that. When someone has committed multiple blockable offenses, Dr. Bob doesn't necessarily elucidate every one of them when handing out the block.AGAIN you are missing my point. Could you read my
posts ? I am not talking about blocks..you are.
I was not asking for a block, just a statement
from dr bob to not generalize.
Posted by stjames on January 5, 2004, at 17:21:49
In reply to Re: But he was *blocked* so what !, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2004, at 17:14:34
> > The block has nothing to do with what we are talking about:
> >
>
> We don't know that. When someone has committed multiple blockable offenses, Dr. Bob doesn't necessarily elucidate every one of them when handing out the block.We do have dr bob's statement as to why he was blocked. So I will go by the hard facts.
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2004, at 17:41:10
In reply to Re: But he was *blocked* so what !, posted by stjames on January 5, 2004, at 17:21:49
Peace, St. James. You're right. I didn't understand, and probably still don't. I'll get out of Dodge.
Posted by henrietta on January 5, 2004, at 19:38:21
In reply to Re: please don't pressure others » Dr. Bob, posted by Larry Hoover on January 5, 2004, at 10:33:00
"And I can't believe I even have to say that."
Why not? Everybody else has to spell it out.
These are the rules. Play or don't.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 5, 2004, at 23:41:35
In reply to Re:saying horrific things isn't pressuring others? » Dr. Bob, posted by Larry Hoover on January 5, 2004, at 8:04:31
> It is perfectly reasonable to want to examine the data/research/information used to arrive at such a conclusion
Sure. But if no data/research/information are forthcoming?
> claims of "wiping hardware" and "deep destruction" are more than just simple opinion. They are provocative and threatening.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused. Sorry, but the last time you were blocked, it was for 1 week, so this time it's for 2.
Bob
Posted by Dinah on January 5, 2004, at 23:45:30
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on January 5, 2004, at 23:41:35
Posted by mair on January 6, 2004, at 12:01:39
In reply to Re: Oh, Dr. Bob...... (nm), posted by Dinah on January 5, 2004, at 23:45:30
The direction of this whole thread seems unfair. I think Larry and St. James raised some very legitimate questions about the administration of the site, or perhaps more appropriately the lack of active administration. The statement for which you blocked Larry mostly contained Maxx's own words and Larry repeated them to express the opinion that when someone does make these sweeping uncorroborated generalizations and then fails to back them up when asked several times, the moderator should not sanction someone for doing what the moderator should have done to begin with.
From the vantage of someone who was not a part of the initial thread, it seems to add insult to injury that Maxx, while blocked, was never called to task for the conclusions and opinionated generalizations he made, and that you have not addressed the points raised by Stjames, Larry, and others in this thread. Maybe from your perspective it makes no difference since yes, in fact, maxx was blocked and maybe you feel your rules speak for themselves. I think, however, at times, appearances are important as well. From all appearances, you've run the wrong guy out of Dodge, and by blocking Larry while ignoring the context, you've sanctioned Larry in what seems to be a rather imperious way.
Mair
Posted by gabbix2 on January 6, 2004, at 12:22:25
In reply to Re: please don't pressure others, posted by henrietta on January 5, 2004, at 19:38:21
> "And I can't believe I even have to say that."
> Why not? Everybody else has to spell it out.
> These are the rules. Play or don't.Everyone has to spell what out?
Did you read the psychobbable thread being discussed?
Posted by stjames on January 6, 2004, at 12:28:40
In reply to Re: But he was *blocked* so what ! » stjames, posted by Dinah on January 5, 2004, at 17:41:10
You can now also report that Lar was blocked, too.
Posted by johnj on January 6, 2004, at 14:02:23
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on January 5, 2004, at 23:41:35
the original post did nothing but scare people. How can you allow this and not allow soomeone to refute such posts?
It appears, and not only to me, that you run off posters that have added great value to this forum. If you could only spend one day in the minds of the troubled that come here you would be more understanding.
Posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 15:01:09
In reply to Dr. Bob, this is very wrong » Dr. Bob, posted by johnj on January 6, 2004, at 14:02:23
Dr. Bob,
I agree that banning Larry Hoover is a mistake. Larry Hoover is a tremendous asset to this board, and after reading many, many of his posts, I have never come across anything that is inappropriate or hurtful to others. In fact, he seems to go out of his way to make sure he chooses his words as sensitively as possible.
I hope you will reconsider your decision for the sake of those of us who rely on Larry for consistently solid information.
Thank you,
psychlover
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 16:47:38
In reply to Re: But he was *blocked* , posted by stjames on January 6, 2004, at 12:28:40
Geesh. I said Peace. We're on the same side on Lar's block, you know. And on his PBC too. Look above.
I wasn't trying to "announce" anything.
Posted by SLS on January 6, 2004, at 16:50:57
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on January 5, 2004, at 23:41:35
> > claims of "wiping hardware" and "deep destruction" are more than just simple opinion. They are provocative and threatening.
> Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused. Sorry, but the last time you were blocked, it was for 1 week, so this time it's for 2.
Just babbling...I'm trying real hard to see things from Dr. Bob's perspective. I'm having a tough time, though. I kinda see where he might be calling into question the use of the words "provocative" and "threatening". I guess in a way they represent a derogatory comment on the character and motives of the person by characterizing the verbiage that this person used. Likewise, the use of the phrase "more than just simple opinion" can be seen as derogatory and an attack upon the quality of what is, essentially, an opinion. Uncivil? I don't know. It seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I'm sad to see Larry go. Oh how I long for those days when we could beat up on each other without restraint. What is deemed as uncivil now is oh so subtle by comparison.
- Scott
Posted by mattdds on January 6, 2004, at 18:54:31
In reply to Re: please don't pressure others, posted by Dr. Bob on January 4, 2004, at 22:42:51
It does more harm than good if we have to walk on pins and needles in order to communicate here.
I would argue that people can interpret things in many different ways, and some people can get offended with any comment, no matter how well phrased. To call what Larry said uncivil would take an enormous stretch in interpretation.
To a certain extent, it is not events in life that disturb people, but the interpretation of those events.
Why can't put a bit more of the burden of the experience of being offended on the recipient. Now, obviously there are boundaries (e.g. gross cutdowns or obscenities), but you are grossly overestimating the fragility of people, and underestimating their ability to "get over it".
I think I may not be alone in thinking that a lot more harm is being done with *some* of these bans than good. I'm feeling pretty fed up and annoyed.
People are not as fragile as you think, and if they are, perhaps they are the ones with the problem. I'm speaking in general terms here.
Matt
Posted by gabbix2 on January 6, 2004, at 19:21:17
In reply to This is getting absurd » Dr. Bob, posted by mattdds on January 6, 2004, at 18:54:31
> but you are grossly overestimating the fragility of people
I cannot believe any longer that these blocks have anything to do with protecting peoples feelings.
Recently a poster politely asked that a subject heading which insulted him (using his name)
be removed, Bob refused.What harm could there be in that?
There was no post following it- simply a subject heading insulting someone.
That was also the ONLY time Bob didn't go back and block out the offending "s"
as he does in every single post where someone uses the word a*s with out editing it themselves.Of course I don't think that little asterisk would have made one bit of difference to the feelings of the poster, but I do believe it says something significant, and its not good.
Posted by shar on January 6, 2004, at 20:19:04
In reply to Re: This IS absurd, posted by gabbix2 on January 6, 2004, at 19:21:17
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2004, at 0:01:07
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on January 5, 2004, at 23:41:35
Posted by Sabina on January 6, 2004, at 12:16:14
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on January 5, 2004, at 23:41:35
Larry doesn't think he can return after this block.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2004, at 0:18:03
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks - Larry's gone « Sabina, posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2004, at 0:01:07
Posted by TeeJay on January 6, 2004, at 19:37:02
In reply to Re: i've read the faq. thanks! (nm) » zenhussy, posted by Sabina on January 6, 2004, at 13:20:03
I've not been here long, but I have to say I'm bemused and a little irritated at some of the attitudes on these boards.
Has anyone not heard the saying which suggests rules are for the adherance of the foolish and guidance for the wise?
Seems to me that around here anyone who has a mental health problem is treated by Bob as some kind of second class citizen and is hearded like cattle through a series of strict and demanding criteria.
I've read the thread which ended in Larry Hoover getting suspended, and could see a poster who was simply making dangerous and sweeping remarks without basis and was then challenged solidly but very fairly and politely by Larry. I saw nothing untoward in Larrys posts at all, in fact the only thing I saw wrong with the thread was a lack of earlier intervention by the moderator.
As a relative newbie, I'm unsure of whether this post is in the right place or not, but I've kinda made my home around the people on the alternative board and hence offered my thoughts here. If its wrong then I guess the rules would suggest the moderator can move it to somewhere it might seem more fitting even if nobody will see it there.
Regards to all
TJ
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2004, at 4:15:28
In reply to This is getting absurd » Dr. Bob, posted by mattdds on January 6, 2004, at 18:54:31
> when someone does make these sweeping uncorroborated generalizations and then fails to back them up when asked several times, the moderator should not sanction someone for doing what the moderator should have done to begin with.
>
> MairPeople have never been under any obligation here to back up what they say. So sometimes they don't. That should be taken into account when deciding what information to trust:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#trust----
> People are not as fragile as you think, and if they are, perhaps they are the ones with the problem.
>
> MattSome people are more fragile than others. Which may in fact be a problem for them...
----
> the original post did nothing but scare people. How can you allow this and not allow soomeone to refute such posts?
It's fine to refute what someone says, but that should be able to be done without being accusatory. For example, instead of:
"Those claims are more than just simple opinion. They are provocative and threatening."
one could say:
"I can find no justification for your claims, and others may be alarmed by them."
> It appears, and not only to me, that you run off posters that have added great value to this forum. If you could only spend one day in the minds of the troubled that come here you would be more understanding.
>
> johnjI hadn't spent any time in Maxx's mind, but I was trying to understand his side...
It may be best if we just agree to disagree on some aspects of this.
I'm really sorry things have gone this way, too, you know. Larry's been a great asset, and I hope he realizes how valued he is and returns after this to continue to contribute to the community here.
Bob
Posted by stjames on January 7, 2004, at 10:24:32
In reply to Re: IMO, posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2004, at 4:15:28
> I'm really sorry things have gone this way, too, you know. Larry's been a great asset, and I hope he realizes how valued he is and returns after this to continue to contribute to the community here.
>
> BobWhy not treat him as such, Dr bob ?
Posted by judy1 on January 7, 2004, at 11:05:23
In reply to Re: blocked for 2 weeks, posted by SLS on January 6, 2004, at 16:50:57
we used to get away with a lot more in the old 'wild west' days, but I think the dramatic increase of posters brought some real negative ones and that necessitated Dr. Bob's strict civility rules. I'm probably one of the few people here who likes them, I think on the whole they are enforced equally (meaning the good people who occasionally screw up get hit with blocks along with those who consistently mess up), and more importantly I feel safer now then I did for the period when the board was growing w/o rules in place.
just babbling too...
take care, judy
Posted by judy1 on January 7, 2004, at 11:14:38
In reply to Re: IMO, posted by stjames on January 7, 2004, at 10:24:32
I think quite a few posters who have been wonderful assets to the board have been hit with blocks in the past (and returned), Larry is just the latest. There shouldn't be preferential treatment and I'm glad there isn't any.
just my opinion, judy
Posted by stjames on January 7, 2004, at 11:30:38
In reply to Re: IMO, posted by judy1 on January 7, 2004, at 11:14:38
There shouldn't be preferential treatment and I'm glad there isn't any.
> just my opinion, judyJudy,
I was not asking for any.
Posted by gabbix2 on January 7, 2004, at 12:04:01
In reply to Re: IMO, posted by stjames on January 7, 2004, at 11:30:38
No one was asking for preferential treatment *because* Larry is such a valued poster.
The block itself was unreasonable, it would have been unreasonable given to any poster. Larry's remarks were not uncivil, and as has been noted he takes great care to be civil.What is more frustrating is that similar remarks are overlooked by Dr. Bob frequently; he's overlooked them in this very thread, however for obvious reasons I'm not going to point them out.
The point being made is that yet another valued poster may be leaving because they cannot post
with the sword of Damocles hanging over their head and the board will be left with a disproportionate about of the "real negative ones" you were speaking of.
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