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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 28 to 52 of 96. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 19:23:03
In reply to Wait a minute... » Dinah, posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 19:21:42
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 19:27:21
In reply to Re: LOL. Sorry. Thanks for the clarification. (nm) » beardedlady, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 19:23:03
Sorry, that struck me as funny, but I didn't mean to sound flippant.
It was a poor choice of words on my part to say you were insulting Bob.
It hasn't been a good day
Posted by IsoM on April 7, 2003, at 19:31:04
In reply to Re: Hoping you'll apologize » IsoM, posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 16:54:02
Oddipus Rex, I'm hoping you will read this & not be insulted as no slight is meant in the least.
I do understand how some will feel that murderous dictators need to looked after by someone. That if no one acts, things will just become worse. I really do. It's a tough decision. It's just not one I feel comfortable making. I know my not choosing sides is a decision too, & one I'm proud of.
No, I wasn't trying to make a judgement about righteousness & eveil. Sorry if it came across that way. It's rare that even the most evil person doesn't show some signs of tenderness or love sometimes to someone (not that it makes them okay). And even the "most saintly" person has faults & weaknesses. If I could read people's hearts then I could judge but I can't, of course. And I'm very much NOT non-judgemental, but I keep my mouth shut about my judgements. I'm afraid few live up to my expectations. I'm only trying to comment on this whole situation, not judge it. (Though that might not be clear to others. I'm trying the best I can to explain it.)
I'm naively idealistic still. An idealistic optimist who's also very cynical - a strange combination. If you were to know me, you'd understand. I still want to pick flowers from my garden & hand them to a young mother & child walking past my place - & I do sometimes, or the paperboy, or smile at the old person walking along. Not because I know them or want something from them, but just to share in some of the beauty & joys of life. I don't need to ever see them again or want something from them to care.
I naively wish the whole world could just reach out & try to accept one another. To learn of each other's cultures, languages, history, & ideals, & to accept whatever we find delightful into our own lives. I wish everyone didn't have to look for hidden meanings behind what others say or do. But the cynic is me knows that's not the way the world runs. It saddens me deeply. I feel like I've never lost my innocence but most of the world has. I don't want that to sound arrogant - I don't mean it that way.
And being an idealist, I really do expect people to live up to what they say, or apologize & explain why they weren't able to. I'd like to see those who lead the nations (& all those in lesser positions of power all the way down), do so for noble reasons & for the betterment of others & not themselves. But it doesn't work that way.
I see the young soldiers of the US & UK, & I think "they're still kids!" & hurt for them. I see Iraqi soldiers & I think "I wonder what they're like?" I think of their families & the traditional Mid-Eastern hospitality shown to all guests, known or unknown & feel a wave of sadness.
Individually, most of these people are ordinary humans like us with hopes, dreams, & families too. It's the ones higher up in power who pull the strings, who manipulate ordinary people into killing other ordinary people.
I know it pains you too. I never want to forget the individual human faces of each one that's been drawn into doing something they never would otherwise - killing another.
And thank you for letting me know it wasn't my quote that bothered you but the way Bob used it. I did misunderstand that.
Posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 19:58:14
In reply to You can lie about America, just don't be sarcastic (nm), posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 12:36:04
I think lie is a pretty harsh word. My apologies.
Posted by fayeroe on April 7, 2003, at 20:00:15
In reply to Welcome back. About what? (nm) » fayeroe , posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 16:57:18
what about what? i don't know what you are asking clarification of? pat
Posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 20:06:56
In reply to Re: Hoping you'll apologize » OddipusRex, posted by IsoM on April 7, 2003, at 19:31:04
>
No I'm not insulted or slighted. It may surprise you but I've often been described as innocent and idealistic myself. And I don't think that's a bad thing. In fact if I wasn't so tired I'd slip over to PSB and add that to the self-love thread :) I sometimes feel misinterpreted and misunderstood. There seems to be a lot of that going around.
Just for the record, I judge peoples' actions and ideas not their hearts. Every human life is sacred even the most horrendous person.I wish people could be more accepting too. Most people find me very tolerant even of cultures I don't understand. I'm glad that's important to you too.
I hope you don't feel insulted or slighted by my reply. I still feel exactly the same about the offending post (about paralells btwn coalition forces and terrorists) but I've always respected your right to believe whatever you want to.
Thanks for replying.
>
Posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 20:09:18
In reply to Re: Welcome back. About what? » OddipusRex, posted by fayeroe on April 7, 2003, at 20:00:15
Posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 20:16:17
In reply to Re: You are my hero » OddipusRex, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 18:02:47
Likewise I'm sure :) I keep meaning to e-mail you but I'm so tired. I never told you thanks for posting your e-mail address awhile back. You are amazing. I hope you're not getting really stessed out over this. I'm hitting the Benzos again after a week off. They're nice little peachy generic ones. Thanks again.
> You expressed that so wonderfully that I really can find nothing to say except to apologize for sticking my own two cents in. :)
>
> (But I do think Jane was right about Beardy. She was insulting Bob again.)
Posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 20:21:56
In reply to Re: Welcome back. About what? » OddipusRex, posted by fayeroe on April 7, 2003, at 20:00:15
Posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 20:25:58
In reply to Re: Please don't post to me again. Thanks » OddipusRex, posted by jane d on April 7, 2003, at 17:57:18
> Oddipus,
> I hope I'm not violating your "don't post to me" request.No it's meant for one individual not the whole board! Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate them.
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 20:28:14
In reply to Re: You are my hero » Dinah, posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 20:16:17
Looking forward to hearing from you. :)
Nawww, threw me all loopy. Ended up taking klonopin and worse. Mine are the nice blue green ones with the k cutout tho. Couldn't really afford the time off from work tho, really need to only read the board after work.
Posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 20:29:19
In reply to Re: It all began in Florida with hanging chads. (nm), posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 20:21:56
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2003, at 21:06:09
In reply to Re: Hoping you'll apologize » Dr. Bob, posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 14:16:48
> > > > > > Here's a paradox: Terrorists in our society are supposedly evil. The definition of a terrorist is a person who plots to kill an innocent civilian. Yet our allied forces conspire to kill the same number of `enemy' human beings who died in the World Trade Towers.
> > > > > > Our allied forces are not terrorists?
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030401/msgs/216284.html
>
> Why are you referring me to a link quoting Goerhing?Sorry, wrong link, what I meant was:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030401/msgs/216112.html
where I was quoting from...
Bob
Posted by noa on April 7, 2003, at 21:12:05
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 4:59:10
A while back I argued with Dr. Bob that there could be room for political/war discussions without it becoming too hostile. He had argued that it was unlikely that such discussions could happen in a civil manner, that they would escalate too quickly and to hotly.
Perhaps I underestimated the power of such discussions. I concede to the Dr. on this one.
It seems to me that a number of misunderstandings heated up really fast into anger and hurt.
All of the people involved are posters I respect and want to have around. Maybe a deep breath and backing off from it for a bit can help?
And I guess we need to be extremely sensitive to how touchy a topic this war is for many of us (myself included which is one reason I tend to stay away from those discussions).
Posted by IsoM on April 7, 2003, at 21:13:18
In reply to Thanks for replying » IsoM, posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 20:06:56
Yeah, we probably have many of the same ideals but different approaches to how they can be reached. It's easy to direct oneself, or try to raise one's children with at least similar ideals - it's impossible to get the world to think similarly (like tolerance & love). I bet our goals are very much the same - peace, happiness, security, stability, & everything that fosters life in a positive way. I know from reading your posts before, I've thought "good grief! is this what she thinks?" but I never commented. I preferred to keep on reading, trying to get a more rounded picture of who you are without jumping to conclusions. I'm hoping that I'm getting closer to 'seeing' you.
I must say your self-posts have made me laugh aloud! I believe that many people, despite differences, can genuinely grow fond of each other, if only conflict was minimized. I'm only human so first impressions has a strong impact on me. But I strive to reach beyond that & refuse to form any judgement over character or personality till I've got lots to base it on. And even then, I'm always ready to adjust my views. I'm glad you've posted those - it gave me a better glimpse of who you are.
I hope, sometimes, people will try to judge my heart (by my intentions). I know I've really said or done things stupidly when it was what I was meaning to at all - not nasty things but stupid stuff. You should hear me talk, off the cuff. Phrases often come out wrong. Thankfully, when people know me, it makes them laugh instead of wondering 'what the hell?' I could come up with quite a few examples that I laughingly remember. Like one friend said "Judy just opens her mouth to change feet." He was exaggerating, of course, but touching on the truth of it.
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 21:49:14
In reply to Re: corrected link, posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2003, at 21:06:09
You don't think Alara meant to be uncivil. I don't either. So a PBC was probably not in order. How about if this comes up in the future, a Please don't compare troops to terrorists, or Please be respectful that others feel differently about the war, or even a This is a war free zone, or something like that?
That way posters like me could stay out of the whole thing without feeling like I was violating my conscience and civic duty.
And bad feelings could be confined to you alone. :D
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 21:49:45
In reply to Re: I propose a compromise?, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 21:49:14
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 21:52:18
In reply to Re: corrected link, posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2003, at 21:06:09
And perhaps a half apology. Which would not only smooth ruffled feathers, but would astound, amaze, and impress a few posters as well.
Posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 22:06:33
In reply to Re: (Compromise addendum) » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 21:52:18
Apologize to who?
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 22:14:02
In reply to Re: (Compromise addendum) » Dinah, posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 22:06:33
Well actually, Phil, I was mistaken. Dr. Bob already did apologize to Oddipus. He said "Sorry, wrong link". But it didn't engender the appropriate shock and awe among those who think he never apologies.
So perhaps a half apology for letting this get out of hand, and not addressing it according to his stated war discussion policy as outlined at the beginning of the war?
Posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 22:30:10
In reply to Re: (Compromise addendum) » Phil, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 22:14:02
I'm having some serious depression, so I get lost in threads very easily..always have. So, I had to ask.
I just read my PBC: Did someone say our troops are evil and mindless and an American life isn't worth saving? Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't be sarcastic, post anything that could lead them to feel put down, or exaggerate or overgeneralize, thanks
I think Drbob covered everything except my punctuation. That PBC leads me to feel put down. I'm glad this thread is over. My time here is growing short, I'm afraid.
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 22:38:52
In reply to Re: (Compromise addendum) » Dinah, posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 22:30:10
That would be a shame Phil. I enjoy your posts very much. As I always say, remember that it's the posters who make up the board, not Dr. Bob.
I'm sorry you're in a depression. You've always been so, oh I'm tired and can't think of the words. But you've always seemed like you could hold your own with the beast and give it hell in return. I often think of your post to me about taking suicide off the table. I'm not sure I'm there yet, but you gave me something to think about. I hope you start on the road back up soon.
Posted by fayeroe on April 7, 2003, at 22:54:31
In reply to Re: (Compromise addendum) » Dinah, posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 22:30:10
> I'm having some serious depression, so I get lost in threads very easily..always have. So, I had to ask.
>
> I just read my PBC: Did someone say our troops are evil and mindless and an American life isn't worth saving? Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't be sarcastic, post anything that could lead them to feel put down, or exaggerate or overgeneralize, thanksphil, come over to the new board. pat
>
> I think Drbob covered everything except my punctuation. That PBC leads me to feel put down. I'm glad this thread is over. My time here is growing short, I'm afraid.
Posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 23:19:16
In reply to Re: (Compromise addendum) » Phil, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 22:38:52
I tapered off of Lexapro, last dose 10 days ago. Dizzyness, nausea, shocks have worn me out.
Had to leave work this a.m. and started taking Lex again.
Suicide is still off the table; I haven't had a life in years but I'll keep what I have. My head feels like it was slammed by a fastball.
Nother day in paradise.
Posted by kara lynne on April 8, 2003, at 0:02:42
In reply to Re: (Compromise addendum), posted by Phil on April 7, 2003, at 23:19:16
He wrote these words to me in a post recently:
"I see your point, and should've said something, sorry."
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