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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Greg on July 19, 2002, at 20:53:54
In reply to I never thought..... » kiddo, posted by shar on July 19, 2002, at 20:45:27
> I never thought you were being anti-semitic, Kiddo.
>
> SharNeither did I Kiddo. I'm sorry that you're not being as fairly supported as the other poster seems to be.
Greg
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2002, at 20:58:50
In reply to Re: I never thought..... » shar, posted by kiddo on July 19, 2002, at 20:48:51
Hi stranger. :)
I'm in Open at the moment. Are you in the mood to chat?
(Sorry Dr. Bob. I know this is social.)
Posted by kiddo on July 19, 2002, at 21:52:07
In reply to Lou's response to Kiddo's post » kiddo, posted by Lou Pilder on July 19, 2002, at 19:40:27
>>I also was concerned about your posts and was preparing my own answer to what Dr.Bob hs also seen and answered to.I don’t understand why you continued to ask me questions with no message of concern until Bob said something. If my post upset and bothered you so much, why did you not bring it up until now, instead of acting as if everything was fine and continuing the thread?
>>My concern is that your posts, to me, go over the line and constitute anti-Semitic rhetoric.My post causes you concern, yet you say my belief constitues anti-Semitic rhetoric??? I am posting on a FAITH board, am I not? So in essence, what you are saying is you can post your experience on the Faith board, but I’m not allowed to quote the Bible on the Faith board, am I correct? Jesus Himself was Jewish, can you please explain to me where you get the idea I’m being anti-Semitic? I’d also like to know what portion of my post constitutes anti-semitic rhetoric?? Perhaps I feel the same way you do about your posts, but I’m not allowed to say anything about it or I’ll receive a PBC, PBS, or be blocked for my opinions, or quoting the Bible….
>>I base that on the same post that Dr. Bob flagged and your other post about your accusation that the pharisees were hypocrites and atributed the casting out of demons , by the jesus that you are refering to, to Beelzabub. (if anyone want an explanation of who Beelzabub was, let me know and I will post the history of Beelzabub)You are basing your accusation that I’m anti-semitic on scripture in the Bible from a Jewish man named Jesus? Beelzabub is the prince of devils, I’ll save you from posting the entire history, hope that’s alright with everyone. So, if anyone was being anti-semitic, it must have been Jesus himself as those were His Words, not mine.
>>Now that thought has been used for 2000 years to arrouse anti-Semitic feelings toward the jewish people by members of Christiandom. They say the same thing that you have said, when you said that...if it isn't in accordance with the word, it is wrong and thearfore the wrong road...
What you are saying is that all roads are wrong instead of yours, if they do not , I guess, agree with the new testament,the way you understand it, since that jesus is called the word in the new testament writings. And jewish people do not hold the new testament to be part of judaism. Niether does many other religions.Now in my experience, many other religions do see the New Testament being a part of Christianity. Some religions don’t read or use the Old Testament either, but that is irrelavent because God is God. What does your Jesus say about it?
>>Now I am describing an experiance that I had where I saw a Rider on a White Horse. I did not know the bible and I am telling what I heard and experianced as I remember it.Yes, I recall you saying that. If you recall, that is the post I’m referring to when I posted that last message. What I was saying is that the Rider you refer to IS quoting Jesus in the NEW TESTAMENT.
>>It may not be what your interpretations of the bible are, but that does not mean that I did not experiance what I am describing.I have no doubt in my mind now that you didn’t experience that…
>>Now since I have met many people that have diverse interpretations of the same things that you are posting, then that means only that people disagree. It doesn't mean that your interpretation is the only one and that all other roads are "wrong".I was saying only what the Bible said, I don’t want anyone to take my interpretations as Gospel for anything, I’d like them to read it for themselves.
>>There are many diverse opinions about what the bible says about a lot of things. I am not a member of any religion, but that does not mean that all religions are wrong just because I am not a member of one.You said in this same post that you are Jewish and that Jews don’t practice the New Testament as part of Judaism. Which is it, you confuse me. I’m still waiting for answers to questions I posted previously.
>>What if the Rider on the White Horse was someone that any person could know?What if he was?
>>What if the Rider welcomed anyone into the City of Peace even though they knew nothing of what was "in accordance with the word"?What if he was? I’d probably read my Bible and civilly ask him to keep riding.
>>What if the Rider on the White Horse was not the world's jesus?Then I wouldn’t want to go.
>>All I can do is tell here whatI experianced. And in my experiance I met others that entered The City of Peace and they were not people that knew the bible or were members of any particular religion , or even rightious people. Some were drug addicts, some were bikers, some were criminals, some were insane, some were non- heterosexuals, some were prostitutes and more.I am not saying that the rod is only for people that are members of bible groups.
Lou
You have told what you’ve experienced. I’m happy for you. Perhaps I’ll tell you my experience on the road, and Christianity, and my friends that are members of Bible Groups that are ex-drug addicts, some are bikers, some are ex-cons, some were insane, but now sane again and the list can go on, just like the Energizer bunny.Kiddo
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 19, 2002, at 21:52:34
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Kiddo's post, posted by OddipusRex on July 19, 2002, at 20:51:09
Oddipus Rex,
I do not believe that this board can be used to referr to the religious leaders of Isreal as "hypocrites".
This is standard anti-Semitism , to me, and I will object to it on this board.
Now if a neo-nazi posted anti-Semitic rhetoric here, I would also object to that. Now I do not believe that neo-nazism is acceptable here, and I have objected to anti-Semitic web site links being posted here and I will continue to object to any posts that characterise the jewish people or their decendants as hypocrites.
Lou
Posted by kiddo on July 19, 2002, at 21:57:34
In reply to Lou's response to Oddipus Rex's post » OddipusRex, posted by Lou Pilder on July 19, 2002, at 21:52:34
I am objecting to your post and believe that it constitutes anti-semitic rhetoritic.
Kiddo
Posted by ctrlaltndel on July 19, 2002, at 22:23:42
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Kiddo's post » Lou Pilder, posted by kiddo on July 19, 2002, at 21:52:07
and the list can go on, just like the Energizer bunny.
(\/)
(';')
(")(")_Hey leave me out of this thread Kiddo
Posted by kiddo on July 19, 2002, at 22:26:10
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Kiddo's post, posted by ctrlaltndel on July 19, 2002, at 22:23:42
Posted by Raven on July 19, 2002, at 23:13:12
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Kiddo's post, posted by ctrlaltndel on July 19, 2002, at 22:23:42
Let's all take a break from the City of Peace and go to the Golden Arches.
Posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 0:12:21
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Kiddo's post » Lou Pilder, posted by kiddo on July 19, 2002, at 21:52:07
With risking getting a PBC or something for this, I don't think that you were uncivil to Lou. I think he can be frustrating to converse with. I also felt like he never answered simple questions that I asked. I'm sorry you are going through this, and I support your right to tell about the bible and OUR Jesus, right from the Bible. Quote away. Amen Sister!
Posted by ctrlaltndel on July 20, 2002, at 0:14:22
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Kiddo's post » ctrlaltndel, posted by Raven on July 19, 2002, at 23:13:12
http://home.att.net/~scorh3/McDonalds.html
Is it my insomnia or is this bizarre^^^^
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 7:11:31
In reply to I'm sorry Kiddo... » kiddo, posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 0:12:21
Sandraee,
Do you mean that someone can make an anti-Semitic statement and claim that it is OK to do so because the new testamant says it? In this case, it is saying that the jesus that Kiddo is talking about says that all the religious leaders of the jews in ancient Israel were hypocrites and also, they attributed the casting out of devils by the jesus that Kiddo is referring to to the power of Beelzabub. Kiddo somehow implies in that post , by tying it in with the jewish leaders, the pharisees, to be some kind of implied condemnation to the pharisees, to me, for , and Dr. Bob agrees,Kiddo is saing that they are on the "wrong road" because ,since they attribute the casting out of devils by this jesus to Beelzabub, then they are denying his claim to be from God and hense can not be on the right road.
Now the anti-Semitic rhetoric in history uses those type of statements in arousing hatred toward te jewish people. Queen Isabella and king Fernand issued an edict that all jews be expelled from Spain in 1492 that uses similar rhetoric. If you read it, it will shock you. It is my position to fight any mention of any rhetoric that charactorises jews in any defaming light, even if a person's jesus says it in their bible. That, to me, does not make it ligitamate to say it here. or anyware else.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 7:16:22
In reply to Lou's answer to Sandra Dee's post, posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 7:11:31
I don't suppose you chat do you?
You know. PB Open.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 7:19:40
In reply to Re: Lou, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 7:16:22
As someone who was raised with a Christian background, attends a Christian church, but considers herself to have a Jewish view of theology for the most part and who has the utmost respect for the Jewish people.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 7:36:47
In reply to Re: Never mind. Do you mind if I say something Lou, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 7:19:40
Because I haven't the slightest grain of sense.
I am aware through my studies that a portion of the Jewish population considers these portions of the New Testament (and a few others as well) to be anti-jewish, because they have been historically used as an excuse to look down on and persecute the Jews.
I myself look at the history involved in the writing of the New Testament and see it as more pro-Roman rhetoric, since the writers of the New Testament wrote shortly after the final Jewish revolt when Jews were not looked kindly upon by the authorities. I see much of it as an attempt to distance themselves. And if I remember correctly, the order in which the gospels were written would give some support to that idea.
My point is that I know this because I have studied both Jewish literature and Christian history. I don't think most Christians have read both. So in the interests of peace and civility, perhaps it would be better to take a generous view of the intentions of other posters, rather than attributing the worst of motives to them. I'm quite certain that not only did Kiddo and Sandra Dee not have any intention of expressing anti-semitic sentiments, but that they were also completely unaware that the sentiments were considered anti-semitic by at least part of the Jewish population. (I haven't read ALL Jewish thought on the subject so I don't know how widespread the belief is.)
I understand that given the world history of Jews that you are vigilant to anti-semitism. But perhaps some understanding that no offense was intended is also in order.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 8:08:39
In reply to Re: I'll say it anyway., posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 7:36:47
Dinah,
Whatever someone's intentions here is when they post the type of rhetoric that I am objecting to, does not ligitamise their posts.
I can not know of their intentions. But I can not allow, in my conciance, these type of posts to go unanswered by me.
Now I have objected to others defaming Islamic people here also.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 8:14:50
In reply to Re: I'll say it anyway. » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 8:08:39
I understand Lou. And I know you equally protect other religions.
But perhaps you could instead express how it makes you feel, and take an educative approach as to the history of the use of the words and their impact on Judaism.
People get a bit defensive when they feel accused. Can you think of a way to educate while still recognizing that no offense was meant?
I'm sure it isn't past your capabilities. I've been quite impressed with your history in sales and your wittiness.
And while I am no fan of peace at all costs, I am a great fan of following your conscience in a way that preserves peace to the greatest of your abilities.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 8:38:03
In reply to Re: I'll say it anyway. » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 8:14:50
Wait. Maybe this should be moved to Faith....
It has more to do with Jesus's words than the administration of the site.
If you're interested in continuing this conversation there, let me know.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 9:21:30
In reply to Re: I'll say it anyway. » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 8:14:50
Dinah,
I ,and Dr. Bob, showed our objection to the type of post in question. Now objecting to what someone has written is, to me, not being "accusitive". I am objecting to what was written, and I am not accusing anyone of being ant-Semitic. I am objecting to the written phrase, for they ,to me, cross the line to be anti-Semitic rhetoric. Now someone could say that what was written was not anti-Semitic rhetoric. But that only means that people disagree. And disagreeing is not being "accusitive". If no one could object without being labled as "accusitive", then we could never object.
Now if you want to say that when a person objects, that they are "accusitve", then , I believe, that that should be a separate thread on the administration board, not the faith board.
Your suggestion that I express how it makes me feel and take an educative approach is not, I believe, requiered by me on an internet board. I do not believe that I have an obligation to educate or tell how something makes me feel, but if I do, then I will do so. If you want to tell those how it could make one feel, and to educate them , then that could be a good thing for you to do on our own. And I would appreciate anyone's writing about that on this board.
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 9:34:46
In reply to Re: I'll say it anyway. » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 9:21:30
Answer:
Someone who makes everyone on all sides angry. :)
I was just trying to think the best of everyone, and try to encourage a constructive conversation.
I tried. Carry on with what you were doing everyone.
The Dinah contingent has officially removed itself from the PB peace accord. Attempts at diplomacy will only be re-established at the request of both parties.
Henry Kissinger, where are you?
Posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 10:43:32
In reply to Re: Besides Lou...., posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 8:38:03
I feel like part of this does involve admin, because we (well I am, and I think Kiddo is too) that we are just telling of our experiences and beliefs and we should be allowed to do that just as Lou has been allowed to tell his "experiences". I never, EVER said he didn't have these experiences, nor that his beliefs are wrong. I never said "Jews are bad" or anything like that. All I'm saying (and I think Kiddo is as well) is that we believe in the Bible. Old and New Testament, through and through. I won't go into all my beliefs here, for the sake of keeping this administrative. I have not rocked the boat by reading and responding to Lou. I just feel that if he's able to talk about his story/beliefs, anyone else can talk about theirs.
Furthermore, I am not against gays (I have a gay friend in-fact), alcoholics (I have many of those friends) and my list goes on. I do not shut people out because they are Jewish, gay or alcoholic. I sort of "shut my eyes" to Lou because I get frustrated conversing with him, so for ME that was the best thing to do. I'm not saying that is for everyone to do. I'm not on a "Block Lou forever" bandwagon. I'm just saying what seems to be working for me.
Posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 10:45:47
In reply to What is the definition of a diplomat?, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 9:34:46
Keep the peace :) You are a great person, and I appreciate you.
Posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 10:54:52
In reply to Maybe on Faith and Admin. » Dinah, posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 10:43:32
Hiya SD-
Nothing was said by Lou until Dr Bob said something, then it became a free-for-all.
I'd like to know where Dr. Bob is now...I feel ganged upon, unsupported, accused, put-down. Where is he when I'd like/need a little support? I don't think it matters, I won't get any support.
Now Lou won't respond to my questions, which I feel are valid, even though I'm *supposed* to be anti-semitic...which I feel is exactly what his comments to me have become.
Would you kindly email me at leeandra@_DELETE_survivorscorner.com Just take out the underscore and delete....
Thanks-Kiddo
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 10:57:46
In reply to Maybe on Faith and Admin. » Dinah, posted by SandraDee on July 20, 2002, at 10:43:32
Naw, Sandra.
The part I was trying to move to Faith was a discussion of the various categories of Jewish leaders, the Pharisees, Saducees, and scribes, and the historical context in which Jesus made remarks about them. And speculating on what he meant by those remarks.
I felt that discussion belonged on the Faith Board. Not the Admin board. But probably it belongs no where, because probably no one but me finds it fascinating. :)
And thanks. I grew up as the designated peacemaker in a warring family, and I tend to carry that with me.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 20, 2002, at 11:02:46
In reply to Re: Maybe on Faith and Admin. » SandraDee, posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 10:54:52
Kiddo,
Now I posted several responses to your posts on the faith board recently , and they were before Dr. Bob admonished you for the "wrong road" post.
Now my responses to your post were to clarify what you meant by "saved", water and spirit" and such. You have not responded to those posts. Now since I was in the process of responding to you, I believe that I was showing that I was going to continue to respond to your posts. And I still will. You understand that responing to an internet post is optionable. It is not mandatory.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2002, at 11:08:55
In reply to Re: Maybe on Faith and Admin. » SandraDee, posted by kiddo on July 20, 2002, at 10:54:52
Sorry you feel unsupported kiddo.
By my count you were supported on this thread alone by shar, greg, oddipus rex, and sandra. And whether you believe it or not, by me. I don't think for a moment that you are anti-semitic.
I have always valued our friendship and think very highly of you. And I always will.
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