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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 53 to 77 of 161. Go back in thread:
Posted by Janelle on April 21, 2002, at 20:47:59
In reply to In a word, the new board creates a - Janelle, posted by Bekka H. on April 21, 2002, at 9:29:59
Hi Bekka,
At least SOMEONE (you!) agrees with and understands everything I said. It took me a LONG time and many revisions before I held my breath (I was a nervous wreck) and hit the "confirm" key to put up that thread on here about the CLIQUE created by the formation of the exclusionary 2000 board.
Wow, so you are also looking into other venues for support now, because it is clear that this is not the group you thought it was when you joined several months ago. Same exact thing here. Like you I will probably continue to post and read, but my feelings about PB have also permanently changed.
I didn't mention it in any of my threads here, but I am also appalled that Dr. Bob would allow and condone the OT board. I think you worded it PERFECTLY when you stated that you find it very worrisome that Dr. Bob, a psychiatrist, trained in mental health and human behavior, does not seem to see through what is going on here.
As for your inquiry about my health, how sweet of you to make the observation you did and to ask about me ... the answer is not what you might think, but due to the changing nature of this board, as much as I do want to share details with you, I do not feel comfortable opening up on here. Perhaps on PB we can catch up, but I'm not ready to even go posting on there as of yet. I'm still too shook up by the formation of the new board and what it stands for. I hope you understand.
Thanks for your interest!
Posted by Zo on April 21, 2002, at 21:36:20
In reply to Re: when i started posting, posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2002, at 13:35:40
Why do you want to "see if this can work"?Zo
Posted by Zo on April 21, 2002, at 21:40:04
In reply to Re: when i started posting, posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2002, at 13:35:40
"I do also wonder, maybe this is harder for people who've been neglected in the past?"
Is that really appropriate? No.
Does it give the impression we are not really heard? Yes.
Is it possible that something genuinely harmful to the board as a whole, and hurtful to a number of people, has occured?
Could you have made a mistake?
Zo
Posted by kiddo on April 21, 2002, at 22:33:55
In reply to dr. b, others, hurt feeling and old timers board, posted by Krazy Kat on April 19, 2002, at 10:46:19
I can't believe there weren't a few PBC's thrown into this one!
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2002, at 23:16:36
In reply to DR. BOB - ''permission?'' ''PERMISSION?'' ???, posted by Janelle on April 21, 2002, at 20:37:34
> Re: why should this be done elsewhere? Because it Can be interpretted as playing favorites
>
> - kkHmm. So it would be OK if it were out of my hands, but I shouldn't encourage it?
I can see that a "frequent fliers" board would be playing favorites, but does that apply to "class of xxx" boards? I know right now there's just 2000, I guess one thing I need to do is get going on 2001...
--------
> Suppose you were doing group therapy. This group occasionally admits new members, as some do. They contribute to the group as the others do even though they do not have as much "history" with the group as the original members do, and their contributions are valuable. Now one day, some of the original group members decide they want to catch up on some old issues and want to spend the first half of group time each week discussing these thing. The newer members are allowed to sit in their chairs, and listen, but can't speak, question or contribute. Good therapy? IMHO, no.
But in this case nothing's taken away from the other boards...
> Perhaps the "group" mentioned above should have just arranged to go out for coffee together.
>
> SusanGAnd in fact it could be seen as going out for coffee on their own. Except that it's not as private. Would it be better if others couldn't listen in?
--------
> > I do also wonder, maybe this is harder for people who've been neglected in the past?
>
> you're asking because you think that makes the objections of those who have personal experience with the effects of exclusion less valuable? Or perhaps just less objective? And are less objective opinions on an issue of emotional rather than logical content less valuable or should they be given less weight?
>
> DinahMI suppose, if pushed, I'd have to say yes, perhaps less objective. But I wouldn't say this is an issue of emotional *rather than* logical content, but one of both. Since there is the practical issue of how to proceed.
--------
> If there's gotta be this exclusionary board, the very LEAST that could have been done should have been more sensitive, more politically correct wording of the rejection message, i.e., something along the lines of "this site does not seem to be AVAILABLE to you ..." (the rest is fine)
>
> JanelleThanks for the suggestion, whew, it's nice to have something specific I can fix. :-)
Bob
Posted by Bekka H. on April 21, 2002, at 23:38:52
In reply to To BEKKA H (Dr. Bob, you oughta read this too!) » Bekka H., posted by Janelle on April 21, 2002, at 20:47:59
Hi Janelle,
I was feeling so disgusted that I wasn't going to post on PB for a while, too, but then I ended up posting a few things there this evening. There is a lot of good on PB, but I still feel that the formation of a CLIQUE -- and Dr. Bob's endorsement of it -- is grossly inappropriate for this sort of community. On a much larger scale, this is how wars are started. We are all one people, but those who are insecure or narcissistic often feel the need to set up imaginary boundaries between themselves and others to give them the illusion of superiority or delusion of grandeur or some such thing. They probably need to fancy they are more special than the rest of us because they really don't feel special at all. I'm no shrink, but I've had a lot of therapy, my dad was a psychiatrist, I come from a medical family, I work in the medical field, and if I've learned anything in all these years of being surrounded by doctors, I've learned that doctors are human and fallible, just like the rest of us. Doctors burp and fart just like the rest of us, and sometimes they exercise very poor judgment.
Bekka
Posted by DinahM on April 22, 2002, at 0:29:15
In reply to Re: so much energy, posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2002, at 23:16:36
Hmmm. I was afraid I had understood your question. I hope you don't mind, but I have taken the liberty of pasting your thoughts on this thread and your answer to JohnX2 on the next thread together. I left John X2's comment in solely for the sake of providing context for your answer.
From this thread:
> > > I do also wonder, maybe this is harder for people who've been neglected in the past?
> >
> > you're asking because you think that makes the objections of those who have personal experience with the effects of exclusion less valuable? Or perhaps just less objective? And are less objective opinions on an issue of emotional rather than logical content less valuable or should they be given less weight?
> >
> > DinahM
>
> I suppose, if pushed, I'd have to say yes, perhaps less objective. But I wouldn't say this is an issue of emotional *rather than* logical content, but one of both. Since there is the practical issue of how to proceed.
>
> --------From the next thread:
>> Does anyone besides me feel like they are "walking on egg shells" when posting to this web site?
>>
>> John>I know it can be an effort, but I do appreciate it. IMO, the fewer broken eggs, the better!
>Bob
Again, it may just be me, and I will undoubtedly see the truth of the matter later and regret posting this, but.... Isn't there a certain lack of congruence between your thoughts on the one thread and your thoughts on the other? Since your post on this thread seems to imply that less objective feelings should be given less weight, while on the other thread.... Oh well, if this makes any sense, fine. If not, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
Posted by shar on April 22, 2002, at 1:52:00
In reply to To BEKKA H - Janelle, posted by Bekka H. on April 21, 2002, at 23:38:52
Getting a bit far afield here, are we?
>We are all one people, but those who are insecure or narcissistic
often feel the need to set up
imaginary boundaries between
themselves and others to give them the
illusion of superiority or delusion of
grandeur or some such thing.>They probably need to fancy they are
more special than the rest of us
because they really don't feel special at all.Hmm. I may have illusions, delusions, be insecure, narcissistic, and not feel special at all thus need to fancy I'm more special than the rest...whew!...but that just means I'm generally screwed up, not that the 2K board 'membership' fills any of those alleged holes in my psyche. Would that it could heal me!
Shar
Posted by Janelle on April 22, 2002, at 2:40:46
In reply to To BEKKA H - Janelle, posted by Bekka H. on April 21, 2002, at 23:38:52
Hi Bekka (a kindred spirit!)
I admire you for being able to get past your disgust and post a few new things on PB. I suppose in my heart of hearts I'll get to that point as well (heck, I'll have to - I've got health and med issues I need help with!) ... I'm just not there yet.
You are so right - there is a lot of good on PB, but I must echo your words that "the formation of a CLIQUE -- and Dr. Bob's endorsement of it -- is grossly inappropriate for this sort of community."
Interesting analogy you made to how on a much larger scale, this is how wars are started and your comments and insights on doctors and the med profession are terrific. In this case, a presumably good doctor and apparently well-meaning person has made a MAJOR MISTAKE with the formation of the exlusionary clique board.
Thanks!
Posted by Janelle on April 22, 2002, at 2:45:17
In reply to For Bob to chew on » Dr. Bob, posted by Zo on April 21, 2002, at 21:40:04
Zo - I realize we don't *know* each other well, but your name sure is familiar to me on here and I missed it while you were blocked. I must say, that in a few well chosen words (unlike me who runs off at the mouth!) you have raised some very important issues in this thread. Let's hope that Dr. Bob addresses them.
Posted by Janelle on April 22, 2002, at 3:04:25
In reply to You couldn't have returned at a better time » Zo, posted by Janelle on April 22, 2002, at 2:45:17
Well, as Dr. Bob indicated, there's now a 2001 posters board. Here we go ... soon there will be a 2002 and eventually 2003 and so on and so on ... what was once a cohesive family-like community will be unrecognizable.
It's rapidly becoming a totally fractionated (word?) - split and splintered bunch of separate, restricted clique message boards. This all seems so far askew from the intended(?) concept of a mutually supportive, caring website.
What is going on with the formation of these separatist boards defies comprehension. It makes no sense.
Posted by Janelle on April 22, 2002, at 3:11:15
In reply to Up pops ANOTHER one... soon there'll be..., posted by Janelle on April 22, 2002, at 3:04:25
Dr. Bob - I'm flattered and honored that you took my previous suggestion about the wording of the blocking notification to heart and have already changed it. Thank you. :-)
I have one more suggestion that I apparently missed the first time around because I was so distracted and upset by the word "permission" -- do you really think it's necessary to bluntly state that the board the outsider is trying to post on is "RESTRICTED"??
It's obvious once the rejection notice pops up that there's a restriction - why must "this board is RESTRICTED" be slammed in someone's face?
Why can't the message simply say something like "This board does not seem to be available to you ... if you feel it should be, etc." Short, concise, factual statement, with no *igniting* or connotative type words! Whaddya think?
Posted by DinahM on April 22, 2002, at 4:48:33
In reply to Re: so much energy, posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2002, at 23:16:36
Actually, CtrlAltnDel, probably has it right. The 2001 board probably should go uncommented on, but I'd like to try one more time, if I may...
First, I am sorry for my previous post. It is obvious that you ARE trying.
From some of your posts, I get the feeling you feel under attack. And I know that many posters feel misunderstood. And I'm very afraid that the 2001 board won't solve that, because... well I'm afraid that you might have misunderstood the objections to the 2000 board. Just my take on it you understand, but I don't think it's because everyone wants their own board.
So my final suggestion on the whole situation is this. Why don't you start a new thread on the topic. You can take a step back and listen rather than hear. We can take a step back and explain rather than get angry. Everyone can ask for clarification if needed.
And that's it for me. Because the part I was baffled and confused about was your part. I'm afraid that I may give you too much credit. A bad fault of mine. Projection I suppose. ;)
Posted by Phil on April 22, 2002, at 7:52:53
In reply to Re: oh dear » Dr. Bob, posted by DinahM on April 22, 2002, at 4:48:33
So my final suggestion on the whole situation is this. Why don't you start a new thread on the topic. You can take a step back and listen rather than hear. We can take a step back and explain rather than get angry.
__________________
Yes, a new thread would calm down some pretty venemous attacks. I've personally got to find a way to let this argument go.
If Dr. Bob makes a mis-step, whether it's with this board or who he's blocked, he gets attacked
like flies on a cow patty.
Why can't we just be grateful for the really hard work he has put in here?
I personally don't give a rat's ass if there's an old-timers board or not. But when I hear people calling old-timers names and such, I know the emotional level of who I'm dealing with. I didn't care one way or the other for this board until the attacks started and felt that there is a really mean spirited overtone to this.
Why do y'all give a shit? You can read the board, comment on psb. I and others go to all the boards still.
I was going to say that I'd just leave the whole mess for y'all to deal with. But I've avoided confrontation long enough. Low self-esteem. I've never thought in my 48 years that my opinion mattered; chalk it up to an alcohlic family of origin.
I'm not running from this one.
No more personal attacks, no more,"Gee, Dr. Bob, these people are screwed up but you're a doctor. How could you be so unwise?
If it's not this, it will be something else that you are all sure should be totally different.
Good, go start a board on Yahoo.
The fact is, we have supported this board and if we didn't early on, PB could have died, although I doubt that. A lot of us didn't have knowledge that pb2000 was starting. It could also maybe help get some of the really beloved old timers back that left becuse of this kind of BS.
Y'all are shooting yourselves in the foot.Next..
Y'all want a debate..bring it on.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 22, 2002, at 8:06:26
In reply to To BEKKA H - Janelle, posted by Bekka H. on April 21, 2002, at 23:38:52
> On a much larger scale, this is how wars are started. We are all one people, but those who are insecure or narcissistic often feel the need to set up imaginary boundaries between themselves and others to give them the illusion of superiority or delusion of grandeur or some such thing. They probably need to fancy they are more special than the rest of us because they really don't feel special at all.
If this is how wars start, how do they end?
Bob
Posted by DinahM on April 22, 2002, at 8:21:55
In reply to Re: oh dear, posted by Phil on April 22, 2002, at 7:52:53
Hi Phil,
Just my OCD at work, but I want to make it very clear that my intention was never to attack any old-timer. I do really admire the old-timers intestinal fortitude and ability to stick through the bad times. It's an ability I don't have, so I admire it in others.
I did attack the 2000 board itself, I suppose, because I thought it was a bad idea, not because of any personal animosity.
And I never meant to attack Dr. Bob either. I was just surprised at his attitude in general and one statement in particular.
And my suggestion on a new thread was not for a debate but for a chance for everyone to be heard without namecalling or dismissal. So I suppose it wouldn't work if everyone wasn't willing to see it in that light. I guess it comes from years of peacemaking and dislike of conflict on my part, but this truly pains me.
And I know I shouldn't explain myself. I know you probably weren't referring to me. But I'm afraid that I just worry about these things too much. Sorry if this made things worse. My intention was to make things better.
Posted by beardedlady on April 22, 2002, at 8:51:47
In reply to Re: oh dear, posted by Phil on April 22, 2002, at 7:52:53
Posted by beardedlady on April 22, 2002, at 8:53:10
In reply to Re: how wars are started, posted by Dr. Bob on April 22, 2002, at 8:06:26
lose territory.
beardy : )>
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 22, 2002, at 9:19:28
In reply to People on one of the sides die, give up, or... » Dr. Bob, posted by beardedlady on April 22, 2002, at 8:53:10
what was the sound it gave off? i Loved that game...
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 22, 2002, at 9:24:25
In reply to This Thread, posted by kiddo on April 21, 2002, at 22:33:55
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 22, 2002, at 9:32:40
In reply to Re: oh dear » Phil, posted by DinahM on April 22, 2002, at 8:21:55
i Do appreciate this board and Dr. B's work. I also appreciate our work and the benefits he receives from it. it's a two way street. i shall not be guilted into retracking my concerns about the new board, however. :) i may crawl under my desk for awhile...
but, i hope i did not offend either - i'm trying to rethink my way of communicating, and don't even have a manic episode to blame any inappropriate responses on. ;)
I remembered the battle ship cry -- "I sunk your battle ship!!!" said with a fake british accent.
- kk
Posted by IsoM on April 22, 2002, at 15:44:10
In reply to People on one of the sides die, give up, or... » Dr. Bob, posted by beardedlady on April 22, 2002, at 8:53:10
Posted by SusanG on April 22, 2002, at 16:11:02
In reply to Wars... or they smoulder on for centuries (nm), posted by IsoM on April 22, 2002, at 15:44:10
Life is too short for me to continue letting this stuff bother me. I still feel the same way about this as I
stated in an earlier message but I've found this is becoming such a negative influence on me instead of the support
and care I first felt that I just have to tell myself to stop. I need to stop being hurt by it, stop being angered by it, stop being concerned about it. I just didn't want my lack of response to be interpreted as agreement or whatever. I guess we can agree to disagree and move on. At least that is my plan. See you in chat where we are all equal.
Posted by Zo on April 22, 2002, at 16:15:16
In reply to Re: so much energy, posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2002, at 23:16:36
>". . . .whew, it's nice to have something specific I can fix. :-)">Bob
In other words, we can save our theoretical breath.
Zo
Posted by JohnDoenut on April 22, 2002, at 19:15:22
In reply to dr. b, others, hurt feeling and old timers board, posted by Krazy Kat on April 19, 2002, at 10:46:19
For all this controversy, if no one uses the new boards, then it will turn out not to have been a great idea and can be deleted.
Go forward in thread:
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