![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 104. Go back in thread:
Posted by Greg on June 3, 2001, at 12:02:01
In reply to Re: Old-Timers board, posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2001, at 8:17:04
That's a good criteria. One question comes to mind though. Some of the "old-timers" here have changed their e-mail addys and screen names over the months. Do you have a way of linking that info into a search so that no one is left out that should be included?
> > How would we define "old timers" anyway
>
> Good question. I'm open to suggestions... Maybe some combination of how long you've been here plus how often you've posted? Some of you were here before there was a registration system to track you!
>
> > I missed the previous discussion about this, so perhaps this has already been talked about.
>
> Here are a few links. There may be more, too...
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000630/msgs/39641.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20001124/msgs/601.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20001124/msgs/619.html
>
> > Of course, you must be the grandaddy old timer Dr Bob as yours would have been the first post I guess! (he he)
>
> If you look close you can see the gray hair... :-)
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/19981001/msgs/1.html
>
> Bob
Posted by Cam W. on June 3, 2001, at 13:45:52
In reply to Re: the PBC dance - Shar, posted by Greg on June 3, 2001, at 11:55:28
LOL - Sorry Dad =^P
> I don't Shar, I think you have all the moves down. After all, you could have taken the cheap shot at my age like a certain pharmacist I know.... :^)
>
> (Please note the critical placement of the smiley face)
Posted by Mair on June 4, 2001, at 17:57:54
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, the Old-Timers board?, posted by Shar on June 2, 2001, at 23:12:40
> >This discussion is starting to make me uneasy because most of what has been said centers on the logistics of the board. No one has raised an issue of whether this is a good idea. When an old timers board was first discussed, I had not been on the board for very long and I felt both hurt and panicked by the suggestion - hurt because it did have an exclusionary feel, and panicked because getting support from people who had thought and written alot about depression was helpful to me. There is the obvious appeal that maybe people like Greg and Shar and some other old timers who have since disappeared, would participate more. But I think there are downsides and I'd really like to hear from "old timers" why the benefits outweigh the detriments, and I'd like to here from some newer people as to whether they even care, or as to what benefitsor detriments they think there are to not have as many participants on the regular PSB board. My recollection is that the idea arose because lots of people were tired of fielding the same questions about meds on PB. PSB is obviously a very different kind of board.
Mair
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 4, 2001, at 21:16:38
In reply to Re: Old-Timers board » Dr. Bob, posted by Greg on June 3, 2001, at 12:02:01
> That's a good criteria. One question comes to mind though. Some of the "old-timers" here have changed their e-mail addys and screen names over the months. Do you have a way of linking that info into a search so that no one is left out that should be included?
For better or for worse, I'm limited in my ability to link different handles. Actually, another idea here was that it might be an incentive for people to stick to the same handle...
I suppose people could just tell me who they used to be in the past?
Bob
Posted by Greg on June 5, 2001, at 9:40:29
In reply to Food for Thought re: Old Timers Board, posted by Mair on June 4, 2001, at 17:57:54
Hi Mair,
I hope this finds you doing well. I needed to think a bit before responding. I wanted to let you know why I think this is a good idea, and the opinions and feelings I express here are my own and I'm not speaking on anyone else's behalf (my disclaimer :).
I have two reasons for liking the idea of an old timers board:
First, there have been people here who have literally, in every sense of the word, saved my life on more than one occasion. Some of them I'm still in touch with, others I haven't heard from in a very long time. I'd like to hear from them, their successes, their failures, how life in general is treating them. I like those "do you remember when" conversations. I think an old timers board *might* encourage some of them to post. And who knows, they might also start posting to the other boards as well? A win-win situation.
Second, the flavor of PB has changed IMHO, drastically. There seems to be so much friction, fighting, nerves on end. In the 1 1/2 years I've been here, I've never known it to be this bad. I haven't posted much for several months because of this, I just don't feel comfortable. I don't feel like I can open up the way I used to. I read posts and want to respond, but I find myself analysing everything I write for fear that I might say something that will offend someone else and start a big fight. In the end, it takes so much of my energy to write a post, that I find myself unable to do it. There have always been arguements and differences of opinion here. But we always seemed to be able to work out our problems with a minimum of effort, and always walked away friends. While initially I was against splitting up the boards (I believe that was the beginning of the change here), I now see that a new board, one where all issues can be dicussed, whether it be meds, social stuff or admin or just talking with old friends, might be beneficial for getting back some of what has been lost here.
I'm sorry that this topic is uncomfortable for you. I understand and respect your feelings about this. Unfortunately, you're right, a board like this would probably be exclusionary to some people. If you have thoughts about criteria to keep that from happening, I'd love to hear them.
I hope old and new members alike will comment about this. If this is a bad idea, then it should be dropped quickly. But if it has some merit, I'd like to see it move forward.
Mair, I hope I haven't offended you or anyone else here with my comments, it certainly is not my intention.
Be well,
Greg> > >This discussion is starting to make me uneasy because most of what has been said centers on the logistics of the board. No one has raised an issue of whether this is a good idea. When an old timers board was first discussed, I had not been on the board for very long and I felt both hurt and panicked by the suggestion - hurt because it did have an exclusionary feel, and panicked because getting support from people who had thought and written alot about depression was helpful to me. There is the obvious appeal that maybe people like Greg and Shar and some other old timers who have since disappeared, would participate more. But I think there are downsides and I'd really like to hear from "old timers" why the benefits outweigh the detriments, and I'd like to here from some newer people as to whether they even care, or as to what benefitsor detriments they think there are to not have as many participants on the regular PSB board. My recollection is that the idea arose because lots of people were tired of fielding the same questions about meds on PB. PSB is obviously a very different kind of board.
>
> Mair
Posted by Greg on June 5, 2001, at 9:55:05
In reply to Re: Food for Thought re: Old Timers Board » Mair, posted by Greg on June 5, 2001, at 9:40:29
I don't think the new board would cause the existing members to post any less to the existing boards. It might in fact cause participation on those boards to increase...hopefully.
> Hi Mair,
>
> I hope this finds you doing well. I needed to think a bit before responding. I wanted to let you know why I think this is a good idea, and the opinions and feelings I express here are my own and I'm not speaking on anyone else's behalf (my disclaimer :).
>
> I have two reasons for liking the idea of an old timers board:
>
> First, there have been people here who have literally, in every sense of the word, saved my life on more than one occasion. Some of them I'm still in touch with, others I haven't heard from in a very long time. I'd like to hear from them, their successes, their failures, how life in general is treating them. I like those "do you remember when" conversations. I think an old timers board *might* encourage some of them to post. And who knows, they might also start posting to the other boards as well? A win-win situation.
>
> Second, the flavor of PB has changed IMHO, drastically. There seems to be so much friction, fighting, nerves on end. In the 1 1/2 years I've been here, I've never known it to be this bad. I haven't posted much for several months because of this, I just don't feel comfortable. I don't feel like I can open up the way I used to. I read posts and want to respond, but I find myself analysing everything I write for fear that I might say something that will offend someone else and start a big fight. In the end, it takes so much of my energy to write a post, that I find myself unable to do it. There have always been arguements and differences of opinion here. But we always seemed to be able to work out our problems with a minimum of effort, and always walked away friends. While initially I was against splitting up the boards (I believe that was the beginning of the change here), I now see that a new board, one where all issues can be dicussed, whether it be meds, social stuff or admin or just talking with old friends, might be beneficial for getting back some of what has been lost here.
>
> I'm sorry that this topic is uncomfortable for you. I understand and respect your feelings about this. Unfortunately, you're right, a board like this would probably be exclusionary to some people. If you have thoughts about criteria to keep that from happening, I'd love to hear them.
>
> I hope old and new members alike will comment about this. If this is a bad idea, then it should be dropped quickly. But if it has some merit, I'd like to see it move forward.
>
> Mair, I hope I haven't offended you or anyone else here with my comments, it certainly is not my intention.
>
> Be well,
> Greg
>
> > > >This discussion is starting to make me uneasy because most of what has been said centers on the logistics of the board. No one has raised an issue of whether this is a good idea. When an old timers board was first discussed, I had not been on the board for very long and I felt both hurt and panicked by the suggestion - hurt because it did have an exclusionary feel, and panicked because getting support from people who had thought and written alot about depression was helpful to me. There is the obvious appeal that maybe people like Greg and Shar and some other old timers who have since disappeared, would participate more. But I think there are downsides and I'd really like to hear from "old timers" why the benefits outweigh the detriments, and I'd like to here from some newer people as to whether they even care, or as to what benefitsor detriments they think there are to not have as many participants on the regular PSB board. My recollection is that the idea arose because lots of people were tired of fielding the same questions about meds on PB. PSB is obviously a very different kind of board.
> >
> > Mair
Posted by shelliR on June 5, 2001, at 11:36:00
In reply to Food for Thought re: Old Timers Board, posted by Mair on June 4, 2001, at 17:57:54
Hi Mair.
I've been on a bit over a year--perhaps around the same time you starting participating on PB. But I am definitely not part of the "old-timers" group, so I don't identify with wanting a separate board to reconnect. I think I came just when the tightness of a small group of people was loosening a bit, but I found it very hard to find a place for myself on the board. There were a lot of messages to specific people about vacation plans. Some posters were quite open about only reading posts from people they knew and cared about. There were a lot of postings about leaving on vacations, coming back from vacations, progress on cleaning apartments, etc.--it was, I think, the beginnings of the end of a highly personal board with many less participants. So I understand those folks sort of longing to be back there again, where it seems that posters were missed if they took even a few days off, a true community feeling.
So personally having a lack of nostalgia for that time, I don't really want another board. On the other hand, I don't have any strong opposition to the creation of one. As Greg said, many of those people have left the board, and others like himself have mostly disconnected, so I don't think it will affect overall the rest of BP. I have good feelings for some of the regulars on PB and still want to participate on BP. I don't, however, think it is in my best interest to increase my participation by becoming part of a tightknit group on the internet. I live alone and work from home, and need to really point my energy into getting out more into the real world, something that is difficult for me.
My two cents, Shelli
Posted by Mair on June 5, 2001, at 21:51:15
In reply to Re: Food for Thought re: Mair, PS, posted by Greg on June 5, 2001, at 9:55:05
>Greg-
First, please don't feel you have to put in so many disclaimers. Do you remember the quote from a member of the US Supreme Court about the definition of pornography (or are you too young to remember)? He said "I know it when I see it." I'm a little the same way about incivility. I don't think it's so much whether you agree as how you disagree, and how personal your disagreement becomes. I try to stay away from alot of the civility discussions because I don't like being around so much animosity. Moreover, I can't imagine taking offense over someone's opinion unless the statement of their opinion carried with it an implication that anyone who doesn't share it is an idiot.
Second, aren't you the one who started ASH? I never made it over there but I frankly assumed that's where the old timers who disappeared went?
Third, alot of what you say has a great deal of merit, although I'm not quite sure when, why or how things changed. Unlike Shellie, I rather miss some of the more personal discussions even if I wasn't a part of them. I think it helped me put some of the more established posters in some context, and probably contributed to a sense of safety. It would be nice to recover that, but unfortunate to make that unavailable to some. I disagree that old timers will spend time on both boards. Time to spend on this board has been a scarce commodity for many people. Since the split of PB, I've barely been back there.
There are no easy answers which is probably why I invited some feedback to begin with. I sometimes think my ability to see multiple sides of every dilemma paralyzes me from ever making a decision about anything. I hope we get some more responses.Mair
PS: I too sometimes have that feeling that it takes too much energy to post, but that feeling waxes and wanes with the intensity of my depression. I might not feel so inhibited posting certain things, if I knew who was going to be receiving it. However,I don't think I fail to post simply because I'm afraid of offending someone else.
Posted by Shar on June 5, 2001, at 23:26:59
In reply to Re: Food for Thought re: Old Timers Board » Mair, posted by Greg on June 5, 2001, at 9:40:29
Greg & All,
I think an old-timers board would be just fine, and it would be unfortunate if people felt excluded, but a trade-off. I think the trade-off would be worth it if there was participation like that described by Greg. I also miss the connections I had with people (for many varied reasons), the feeling of safety I had, and the continuity of the 'community.'Just the other day (now, there's an old-timers expression) I was thinking about Harry B. and wondering how he was, wishing he would post, having some questions to ask him.
Also, I think the O-T board might find itself addressing different issues. For example, people who have been posting for a long while may be in different phases of their illness, at least as far as having gone through it ON PsychoBabble. I think (IMHO) people early in their illnesses or early on the boards sometimes have very different issues than O-Ts.
So, I would be in favor of an O-Ts board, but would not cut off a hand to have it.
Shar
> Hi Mair,
>
> I hope this finds you doing well. I needed to think a bit before responding. I wanted to let you know why I think this is a good idea, and the opinions and feelings I express here are my own and I'm not speaking on anyone else's behalf (my disclaimer :).
>
> I have two reasons for liking the idea of an old timers board:
>
> First, there have been people here who have literally, in every sense of the word, saved my life on more than one occasion. Some of them I'm still in touch with, others I haven't heard from in a very long time. I'd like to hear from them, their successes, their failures, how life in general is treating them. I like those "do you remember when" conversations. I think an old timers board *might* encourage some of them to post. And who knows, they might also start posting to the other boards as well? A win-win situation.
>
> Second, the flavor of PB has changed IMHO, drastically. There seems to be so much friction, fighting, nerves on end. In the 1 1/2 years I've been here, I've never known it to be this bad. I haven't posted much for several months because of this, I just don't feel comfortable. I don't feel like I can open up the way I used to. I read posts and want to respond, but I find myself analysing everything I write for fear that I might say something that will offend someone else and start a big fight. In the end, it takes so much of my energy to write a post, that I find myself unable to do it. There have always been arguements and differences of opinion here. But we always seemed to be able to work out our problems with a minimum of effort, and always walked away friends. While initially I was against splitting up the boards (I believe that was the beginning of the change here), I now see that a new board, one where all issues can be dicussed, whether it be meds, social stuff or admin or just talking with old friends, might be beneficial for getting back some of what has been lost here.
>
> I'm sorry that this topic is uncomfortable for you. I understand and respect your feelings about this. Unfortunately, you're right, a board like this would probably be exclusionary to some people. If you have thoughts about criteria to keep that from happening, I'd love to hear them.
>
> I hope old and new members alike will comment about this. If this is a bad idea, then it should be dropped quickly. But if it has some merit, I'd like to see it move forward.
>
> Mair, I hope I haven't offended you or anyone else here with my comments, it certainly is not my intention.
>
> Be well,
> Greg
>
> > > >This discussion is starting to make me uneasy because most of what has been said centers on the logistics of the board. No one has raised an issue of whether this is a good idea. When an old timers board was first discussed, I had not been on the board for very long and I felt both hurt and panicked by the suggestion - hurt because it did have an exclusionary feel, and panicked because getting support from people who had thought and written alot about depression was helpful to me. There is the obvious appeal that maybe people like Greg and Shar and some other old timers who have since disappeared, would participate more. But I think there are downsides and I'd really like to hear from "old timers" why the benefits outweigh the detriments, and I'd like to here from some newer people as to whether they even care, or as to what benefitsor detriments they think there are to not have as many participants on the regular PSB board. My recollection is that the idea arose because lots of people were tired of fielding the same questions about meds on PB. PSB is obviously a very different kind of board.
> >
> > Mair
Posted by Chris A. on June 8, 2001, at 0:50:30
In reply to Re: Food for Thought re: Old Timers Board, posted by Shar on June 5, 2001, at 23:26:59
To All,
Speaking from a socially avoidant perspective, exclusion can be very painful and down right dangerous for some people who share this malady. We tend to be very sensitive to rejection. Yes, I wonder about some of those from a couple of years back who were either very helpful or going through great pain themselves. Some were of great support to me when I was very suicidal. At times it feels like losing family. There was more of a sense of community, but I'm not sure an 'oldies' board would promote community, just a great divide - "I was here before you were."
I must admit, my nostalgia isn't terribly strong since losing so much of my memory following ECT, so you can take that into account. I simply don't remember what all went on, just bits and pieces.More food for thought,
Chris A.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 2, 2002, at 19:37:48
In reply to Re: Food for Thought re: Old Timers Board, posted by Chris A. on June 8, 2001, at 0:50:30
[quotes below from the thread starting at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020325/msgs/21221.html]
> I chalked [the change] up to turn-over rate in those who post...
> IsoM> It may be in part because there are many more posters than there were 2+ years ago...
> Greg> 1. the board has grown so it's tougher to know each other
> 2. dr. bob has had to respond to that growth by "policing" more.
> the board can be broken into another piece or two.
> - kk> I wish whole-heartedly that a lot of the "old timers would come back.
> I do think I know what is missing now that we had a few years ago, a sense of family. I miss that a lot.
> GregThe above made me think again about this idea of a separate board for old-timers. Other, even earlier, threads in which this has been discussed:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000630/msgs/39641.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20001124/msgs/601.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20001124/msgs/619.htmlWhat do you think? Give it a try? A more general version might be a limited-membership board without specific (well, with different) membership "criteria"...
Bob
Posted by kiddo on April 2, 2002, at 20:18:56
In reply to Re: More on Old Timers Board, posted by Dr. Bob on April 2, 2002, at 19:37:48
What do you define as 'Old-Timer'? How do you create something that is separated like that without offending others? Don't you think that if it's separated like that the old-timers will end up a separate group from the 'newbies'?
Just wondering-Kiddo
Posted by Shar on April 3, 2002, at 2:30:28
In reply to Re: More on Old Timers Board, posted by kiddo on April 2, 2002, at 20:18:56
Time on board seems like the most simple way to figure it. And, the cut-off would probably be arbitrary, I would define old timers as folks here, and participating a least a little, for a year or more.
I've been on since May 2000, before PB was split into two boards. When I look at the posts from that time period, those posters would definitely be oldtimers to me.
I don't think the old timers would post exclusively to a board for old timers. I think it would be more of a connection for 'family' from times past. These folks would know each others histories a bit better than most and what some of us have been through without a lot of background details.
As always, there will be pros and cons. No matter what is done, some people will be offended.
Maybe we should have a newbies board and an intermediates board, to cover all the bases. And maybe a lurkers board--if anyone would ever post there. 8-)
Shar
> What do you define as 'Old-Timer'? How do you create something that is separated like that without offending others? Don't you think that if it's separated like that the old-timers will end up a separate group from the 'newbies'?
>
>
> Just wondering-
>
> Kiddo
Posted by mair on April 3, 2002, at 8:06:14
In reply to Babble Birth Days determine old timers?, posted by Shar on April 3, 2002, at 2:30:28
This is a tough one. If we had added another Board the last time it was discussed, under any cutoff rule, we'd have excluded several people whom I feel very connected to and who are valuable and valued contributors. And really, my bond with them is stronger than my bond with some definite old timers who haven't been around for a long time, for whatever reason. I also think the old timers perform a lot of valuable functions that help keep this Board a more welcoming and supportive place and I'd hate to see them abdicate this role simply because they then had somewhere else to go.
However, if the idea is to draw back into the fold people who have left, maybe it's worth at least a trial run. However would you, as Shar has suggested, create a date cut-off or require a certain length of participation as a pre-condition to joining the old timers? If the latter, would new people be added after they have been around for awhile?
Posted by wendy b. on April 3, 2002, at 11:30:20
In reply to Re: More on Old Timers Board, posted by Dr. Bob on April 2, 2002, at 19:37:48
> [quotes below from the thread starting at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020325/msgs/21221.html]
>
> > I chalked [the change] up to turn-over rate in those who post...
> > IsoM
>
> > It may be in part because there are many more posters than there were 2+ years ago...
> > Greg
>
> > 1. the board has grown so it's tougher to know each other
> > 2. dr. bob has had to respond to that growth by "policing" more.
> > the board can be broken into another piece or two.
> > - kk
>
> > I wish whole-heartedly that a lot of the "old timers would come back.
> > I do think I know what is missing now that we had a few years ago, a sense of family. I miss that a lot.
> > Greg
>
> The above made me think again about this idea of a separate board for old-timers. Other, even earlier, threads in which this has been discussed:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000630/msgs/39641.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20001124/msgs/601.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20001124/msgs/619.html
>
> What do you think? Give it a try? A more general version might be a limited-membership board without specific (well, with different) membership "criteria"...
>
> Bob
Dr. Bob and others:Here's something I said under a different alter-ego, from a while back (under the third url Dr. Bob gave above), as "Ms. B" -- and I still agree with it...
Wendy
===========
"Also, I actually don't like the idea of an old-timers board, being something of a new-timer myself. Isn't it possible for people to ignore the postings on P-Babble (meds) that you don't want to read, and do a search every so often on the meds you are concerned about? Also, if some old-timers suffer from burnout, that may be part of the group-therapy dynamic we get on this web site -- learning from the interaction of the group when and how to say no, or when to simply ignore, in order to save oneself from doing too much. Perhaps a lesson that needs learning?However, I really do like the idea of "chat with the expert" or, "submit your questions, and an expert will answer a few" type of addition to the site. I think Dr. Bob has enough contacts who would do a little pro-bono work to keep it interesting, and give the old-timers something new to participate in, because the "experts" could be encouraged by Dr. Bob to answer the esoteric or more highly informed questions. For newbies with basic "Will Celexa cause me to gain weight?" questions, the moderator can simply refer them to the "search" function on P-Babble. Right?
Just my thoughts, here, I don't mean to offend anybody. Thanks for listening...
B. "
Posted by mair on April 3, 2002, at 12:05:52
In reply to Re: More on Old Timers Board, posted by wendy b. on April 3, 2002, at 11:30:20
After reading Wendy's post, I went back and looked at some of my prior statements and those of Greg on this issue, written almost a year ago. It was unclear to me whether the disatisfaction was with PB or PSB, and I guess when this issue keeps arising, I have trouble sorting out which Board we're talking about. After all people who might classify as old timers on PB might be relatively unknown to old timers on PSB. I can accept the concept of another Board more easily if I envision it as a hybrid PB/PSB Board which is not necessarily active all the time, but is there as a repository for messages that one old timer might want to post to another. For instance if Greg did want to catch up with Cam for instance in a way that wasn't quite as public, and maybe Cam would want to communicate with Greg without having swarms of people posting "Cam come back" messages. Maybe it would be a way for someone who has left to reenter the group, or reconnect with people who helped them in the past. I don't know how to set something like this up or keep it to certain parameters. I'd hate to see it as a Board that certain people visited to the exclusion of the other Boards, but I think that when Greg wrote about this last June, he made some valid points about why the Board as it's currently constituted doesn't meet his needs.
Mair
Posted by Zo on April 4, 2002, at 21:20:20
In reply to More still on another board, posted by mair on April 3, 2002, at 12:05:52
Posted by Shar on April 5, 2002, at 23:10:24
In reply to More still on another board, posted by mair on April 3, 2002, at 12:05:52
There seems to be a lot of concern about (1) Old-timers migrating to the old-timer's board to the near exclusion of other boards. I don't believe that will happen. I see the old-timer's board as a valuable way to touch base and catch up with people 'I knew back when...' and for people to drop in on if they want, and after that, it would be interesting to see how people used it.
Also concern about (2) hurting people's feelings by having a board they can't join. Well, my gosh. I have a hard time really taking this down into my heart of hearts as a serious crisis-producing issue. I KNOW some people would feel unfairly excluded, some always do. I KNOW some will have hurt feelings, some always do. But, should that be the driving force about expanding the site? I don't think so. If that's the common denominator that governs our actions, we could never do anything.
I think the OT board will be an addendum to, not replacement for, the other boards. Heck, let's start a newbies board too (and hurt old timers' feelings) and a mediumies board (and hurt feelings of newbies and old-timers).
Upon reflection, the old-timer board would not have to have a cut-off for time-on-board or posting birthday. It could be totally open and anyone who wanted to could post there; if newbies or mediumies posted there I guess people would wonder why. And, that's just the type of invitation some people need to come in and stir things up---posting because someone implied they "shouldn't." But, I guess if that got disruptive, it might be covered by the civility policy.
My first time here was May 2000. It was before the board split into PB and PSB. I went back and looked at the people that were around then, and just for fun thought I'd mention some of their names; interesting so many are still here:
Tina....Kazoo....Janice....MarkH....JohnL....CarolAnn....SLS....NikkiT....Phil....CraigF....Kathie....CindyW....
Cass....Greg....CamW....st.james....harry B (I miss him!)....alisonm....noa....bob....andrewBand there are others here I'd consider old-timers that haven't been around for two years.
Shar
Posted by tinaboo on April 6, 2002, at 7:51:32
In reply to Oldies Board would be adding not subtracting, posted by Shar on April 5, 2002, at 23:10:24
Hi Shar!! I recognise all those names too. Thanks for the little stroll down memory lane. I got a good grin out of it.
take care
tina
Posted by shelliR on April 6, 2002, at 8:49:21
In reply to Oldies Board would be adding not subtracting, posted by Shar on April 5, 2002, at 23:10:24
>> I see the old-timer's board as a valuable way to touch base and catch up with people 'I knew back when...' and for people to drop in on if they want, and after that, it would be interesting to see how people used it.<<
I don't mind a board like that, but I don't really see the point. Like Zo, I think that's a perfect reason to create a group on yahoo. I mean, what ever happened to Greg's group? Couldn't that group be a reunion board? Maybe it could be "advertised" on PB so that everyone who checks into PB knows it's there.
>> Upon reflection, the old-timer board would not have to have a cut-off for time-on-board or posting birthday. It could be totally open and anyone who wanted to could post there; if newbies or mediumies posted there I guess people would wonder why.<<
That's sort of how I felt when I tried to "break in" to "the group" in July 2000. That people were wondering why ! I'm not sure that it's a good thing to initiate with that attitude, unless it's called a reunion board (not an oldtimer's board). I think maybe Mair already said this.
I worry a little about the diluting of PB into too many boards
Shelli
Posted by tinaboo on April 6, 2002, at 8:57:58
In reply to Re: Oldies Board would be adding not subtracting » Shar, posted by shelliR on April 6, 2002, at 8:49:21
> I don't mind a board like that, but I don't really see the point. Like Zo, I think that's a perfect reason to create a group on yahoo. I mean, what ever happened to Greg's group? Couldn't that group be a reunion board? Maybe it could be "advertised" on PB so that everyone who checks into PB knows it's there.
Greg's group isn't an open one anymore. It's limited to existing members now. It just got too big. We could go ahead and open another one just for the occasional reunion like you say. Wouldn't that be fun? >
>
>
>
>
> That's sort of how I felt when I tried to "break in" to "the group" in July 2000. That people were wondering why ! I'm not sure that it's a good thing to initiate with that attitude, unless it's called a reunion board (not an oldtimer's board). I think maybe Mair already said this.
>
>
> I worry a little about the diluting of PB into too many boards
>
These are very good points Shelli. I look back and see that most of the real discomfort for me started when the board was split into two and then three. I think more dilution could be detrimental.tina
Posted by tinaboo on April 6, 2002, at 9:01:13
In reply to Re: More on Old Timers Board, posted by Dr. Bob on April 2, 2002, at 19:37:48
How about opening a group (yahoo or something like that) for "old-timers reunions"
Anyone could post but the group could be mainly for the oldies who don't get to say much around here for various reasons?What would you all think of that?
I'd be willing to open one up.let me know how y'all feel about it.
tina
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 6, 2002, at 20:14:44
In reply to Re: More on Old Timers Board--POLL, posted by tinaboo on April 6, 2002, at 9:01:13
> I don't think the old timers would post exclusively to a board for old timers. I think it would be more of a connection for 'family' from times past. These folks would know each others histories a bit better than most and what some of us have been through without a lot of background details.
>
> SharRight, that would be the idea...
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> This is a tough one. If we had added another Board the last time it was discussed, under any cutoff rule, we'd have excluded several people whom I feel very connected to and who are valuable and valued contributors. And really, my bond with them is stronger than my bond with some definite old timers who haven't been around for a long time, for whatever reason.
There's not going to be any way to take into account all personal connections. Unless old-timers could "sponsor" others, but that might be a can of worms...
> However, if the idea is to draw back into the fold people who have left, maybe it's worth at least a trial run. However would you, as Shar has suggested, create a date cut-off or require a certain length of participation as a pre-condition to joining the old timers? If the latter, would new people be added after they have been around for awhile?
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> MairWhat about basing it on degree of participation? Like a frequent flier program? That would take into account length of participation, since the longer someone's here, the more they participate. And it would be an incentive to participate. Yes, new people would be added. At least as long as there weren't too many old-timers!
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> I actually don't like the idea of an old-timers board, being something of a new-timer myself.
>
> WendyBut that was then, right? :-)
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> After reading Wendy's post, I went back and looked at some of my prior statements and those of Greg on this issue, written almost a year ago. It was unclear to me whether the disatisfaction was with PB or PSB, and I guess when this issue keeps arising, I have trouble sorting out which Board we're talking about. After all people who might classify as old timers on PB might be relatively unknown to old timers on PSB. I can accept the concept of another Board more easily if I envision it as a hybrid PB/PSB Board which is not necessarily active all the time, but is there as a repository for messages that one old timer might want to post to another... Maybe it would be a way for someone who has left to reenter the group, or reconnect with people who helped them in the past. I don't know how to set something like this up or keep it to certain parameters. I'd hate to see it as a Board that certain people visited to the exclusion of the other Boards, but I think that when Greg wrote about this last June, he made some valid points about why the Board as it's currently constituted doesn't meet his needs.
>
> MairI guess I was thinking about a hybrid (or general) board, too. Without topic restrictions. And about the participation criterion being total participation, including all of the boards.
As far as public, my idea was anybody could still *read* the posts there, it would only be posting that would be restricted...
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> I worry a little about the diluting of PB into too many boards
>
> Shelli> I look back and see that most of the real discomfort for me started when the board was split into two and then three. I think more dilution could be detrimental.
>
> tinaThink of it as diversity, not dilution? :-)
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I went and took at look at degree and length of participation, using the registration data which starts in 5/00. As far as I can tell, those on this thread have posted 461 to 1193 times, starting as long ago as 5/00 and as recently as 6/01.
Overall, degree-wise, 36 posters have posted 500 or more times, 11 starting less than a year ago, 4 of those starting less that 6 months ago. 65 posters have posted more than 300 times, 17 starting less than a year ago, 6 of those starting less than 6 months ago. Length-wise, 109 posters started posting in 5/00, the 20 most active over 300 times each, the 20 least active less than 15 times each. Not all of those posters are still active.
Bob
Posted by Shar on April 7, 2002, at 12:35:13
In reply to Re: At some point, everyone becomes an oldtimer... » Shar, posted by tinaboo on April 6, 2002, at 7:51:32
I like the name Reunion Board. And I think it is a good idea.
An e-group is a hassle, one has to join and go thru a bunch of rigamarole to post. My idea was that people could take a look at the reunion/old timers board and touch base with friends or post, sort of spur-of-the-moment.
I don't think an old timers board would dilute the Babbles. The only possibility would be that people there would know they are talking to people who have been dealing with this issue for a while. Maybe more shared experience.
I think it is a fine idea.
Shar
Posted by medlib on April 8, 2002, at 2:04:35
In reply to Re: More on Old Timers Board, posted by Dr. Bob on April 2, 2002, at 19:37:48
Dr. Bob--
Is there really a need for definitions, restrictions or separate registration/qualification for an Old Timers board? None of the other PB boards have posting restrictions beyond the initial site registration. My concerns are 1)that any limitations will inevitably hurt or alienate someone, and 2)that such extra "hassles" may deter long absent or sometimes visitors from reconnecting.
Why not just set it up, describe its purpose and give self-definition (and simplicity) a chance? I think that most Old Timers will recognize and respond to others like themselves. And, if non-Old Timers wish to post occasionally to Old Timers as a group about Old Timers, where's the harm? Inappropriate posts can always be redirected; and limitations can be instituted later, if necessary, as Registration was. It seems to me that narrowly-focused boards have enough difficulties just sustaining an on-going dialogue. It's hard for me to imagine a new OTPB becoming "too popular" or "contaminated" by inappropriate posters.
Hoping that this one gets okayed for takeoff ---medlib
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