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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 28 to 52 of 56. Go back in thread:
Posted by J Kelly on March 7, 2016, at 6:56:29
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 7, 2016, at 6:48:00
>
> Full blown Psychosis can be much more destructive than Depression.Agreed. Ugh.
Posted by J Kelly on March 7, 2016, at 9:08:48
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 3, 2016, at 13:19:24
> i was psychotic on both of these.
Hi. Just curious, when you were in psychosis on Parnate and Nardil, were you also taking the A/P's and mood stabilizer?
I'm thinking about having 10mg Zyprexa and some dose of Lamictal in place when I start the Nardil trial.
Has any other med caused psychosis in you? If so, what was it?
Jade
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 7, 2016, at 14:11:16
In reply to Re: Nardil safe? » Lamdage22, posted by J Kelly on March 7, 2016, at 9:08:48
Well if you have someone close to you maybe THEY can monitor you for psychosis because they will notice(hopefully!!!). Do you think you would listen to them when they are saying that its not doing you any good?
Antipsychotics have the culprit of potentially causing very bad side effects... Tardive Dementia, Tardive Dyskinesia, Diabetes (Especially Zyprexa), Weight gain, Obesity, Metabolic Syndrome.
Sometimes i was on APs, sometimes not.
I hope you make the right decision and i am not entirely sure which one it is.
> Hi. Just curious, when you were in psychosis on Parnate and Nardil, were you also taking the A/P's and mood stabilizer?
>
> I'm thinking about having 10mg Zyprexa and some dose of Lamictal in place when I start the Nardil trial.
>
> Has any other med caused psychosis in you? If so, what was it?
>
> Jade
>
>
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 7, 2016, at 14:11:48
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 7, 2016, at 14:11:16
Yes i am prone to psychosis. Probably more so than you.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 7, 2016, at 14:21:55
In reply to Re: Nardil safe? » Lamdage22, posted by J Kelly on March 7, 2016, at 9:08:48
You could do the AP thing of course if the antidepressant effect outweighs the potential and actual negative effects of Nardil and the AP.
If you gain weight, you could take Metformin as well. I would definitely recommend that.
Does it have to be Zyprexa though? Which APs do you have experience with?
Posted by J Kelly on March 7, 2016, at 15:13:54
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 7, 2016, at 14:11:16
>
> I hope you make the right decision and i am not entirely sure which one it is.
>
>That makes two of us.
Posted by J Kelly on March 7, 2016, at 15:30:24
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 7, 2016, at 14:21:55
>
> If you gain weight, you could take Metformin as well. I would definitely recommend that.Yes I've been curious about that. I think I asked my pdoc about Metformin when I gained weight from Zyprexa and he dismissed it. I'll ask again.
>
> Does it have to be Zyprexa though? Which APs do you have experience with?
>
Abilify caused intolerable akathisia (sp?). Geodon caused hypersomnia. I could fall asleep in the middle of a conversation. It was bad. I choose Zyprexa because I feel it calms me, and it erases my tendency towards insomnia. The weight gain IS an issue with Zyprexa but maybe the metformin would help. I don't do well with weight gain.
Thanks for your interest in helping me, a complete stranger hah :)
How are you doing?
Jade
Posted by SLS on March 7, 2016, at 15:33:43
In reply to Re: Nardil safe? » Lamdage22, posted by J Kelly on March 7, 2016, at 15:30:24
> >
> > If you gain weight, you could take Metformin as well. I would definitely recommend that.
>
> Yes I've been curious about that. I think I asked my pdoc about Metformin when I gained weight from Zyprexa and he dismissed it. I'll ask again.
Quick Google search:https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=antipsychotic+metformin
- Scott
Posted by J Kelly on March 7, 2016, at 16:51:40
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by SLS on March 7, 2016, at 15:33:43
> Quick Google search:
>
> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=antipsychotic+metformin
>
>
> - Scott
J Fam Pract. 2008 Aug; 57(8): 526530.
PMCID: PMC3183916Can metformin undo weight gain induced by antipsychotics?
Sarah-Anne Schumann, MDcorresponding author and Bernard Ewigman, MD, MSPH
John Hickner, MD, MSc, PURLS Editor
John Hickner, Department of Family Medicine, The University of Chicago;corresponding author
Practice changer
"Recommend metformin 250 mg 3 times a day, along with lifestyle modifications, to promote weight loss and decrease insulin resistance in patients who gain more than 10% of their pretreatment body weight on antipsychotic medications."
Strength of recommendation
B: Based on a single, well-designed, randomized controlled trial.
Wu R-R, Zhao J-P, Jin H, et al. Lifestyle intervention and metformin for treatment of antipsychotic-induced weight gain: a randomized controlled trial. JAMA. 2008;299:185-193.1
Good enough for me. Might be looking for a new pdoc. One that will prescribe Metformin and Nardil.
Jade
U of Chicago? Dr Bob? huh
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 10:19:05
In reply to Re: Nardil safe? » Lamdage22, posted by J Kelly on March 7, 2016, at 15:30:24
I am well, thank you. I have my "Cannabidiol appointment" in two days. Keeping my fingers crossed i will get it prescribed and it works.
Scott, could he take Seroquel with Nardil without serotonin syndrome?
Does Risperdal work for you Jade?
Do you know someone who could monitor you for mania and psychosis? If you dont and you say you dont realize mania/psychosis when you have it, i would be concerned.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 10:34:14
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 10:19:05
If you had psychosis several times you do notice... at least i do.
But you dont want more episodes. One is more than enough
Posted by J Kelly on March 8, 2016, at 10:52:14
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 10:19:05
> I am well, thank you.
Hey good to hear :)
> I have my "Cannabidiol appointment" in two days. Keeping my fingers crossed i will get it prescribed and it works.
I think I read someone else here is doing well with Cannabidiol. Good luck!
>
> Scott, could he take Seroquel with Nardil without serotonin syndrome?
>
> Does Risperdal work for you Jade?I've never taken Risperdal.
>
> Do you know someone who could monitor you for mania and psychosis? If you dont and you say you dont realize mania/psychosis when you have it, i would be concerned.Yes, I could be monitored. I've had only one episode of psychosis. Nine months and not once did I recognize I was ill.
Jade
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 13:39:51
In reply to Re: Nardil safe? » Lamdage22, posted by J Kelly on March 8, 2016, at 10:52:14
> Yes, I could be monitored. I've had only one episode of psychosis. Nine months and not once did I recognize I was ill.
>
> Jade
>
>That is unfortunate. Your pdoc should have recognized. But now you recognize that you were ill. Do you remember how it started? If yes, then these are the things to look out for. For example: Being suspicious, having weird thoughts. Train of thoughts with no end in sight. Insomnia. Grandiose thoughts, Delusional thoughts. I am sure there are more. To me pre-psychotic thoughts are pretty easy to spot.
If you and your friends/family memebers watch out AND you have a pdoc that asks the right questions, i think you should be fine. Proceed with caution i would say and discuss the AP/Nardil combo with your pdoc. Inform him/her about your fears as well as friends or family member.
You are in pretty deep depression i assume?
Lets wait for Scott to chime in on the AP. Zyprexa is pretty bad in terms of weight gain and metabolic disturbances. IE: Cholesterol and Triglycerides.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 13:46:46
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 13:39:51
There are pros and cons to what you are wanting to do.
Consider both.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 13:56:07
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 13:46:46
You americans have access to all the meds. Maybe you could get into a Rapastinel trial.
But i feel sorry for the little social support there is. The situation is different in here Germany.
Fortunately i have a pdoc that is open to the idea of trying american meds before they hit the German market:)
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 14:29:51
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 13:56:07
I have read some of the other posts. You are currently on 10mg Zyprexa? If that is the case then you may need 20mg with Nardil or possibly even 20mg and a second AP.
I tried MAOI way too many times and as a result i take ALOT of APs. I was okay at 200mg Seroquel once.
Dont go down the same road.
Posted by J Kelly on March 8, 2016, at 17:47:00
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 8, 2016, at 14:29:51
> I have read some of the other posts. You are currently on 10mg Zyprexa? If that is the case then you may need 20mg with Nardil or possibly even 20mg and a second AP.
I cant even imagine this. The weight gain at 10mg Zyprexa is more than I can handle. Maybe a second AP. Still thinking about it.
>
> I tried MAOI way too many times and as a result i take ALOT of APs. I was okay at 200mg Seroquel once.
>
> Dont go down the same road.Believe me I'm listening. The never ending balancing act.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 6:14:42
In reply to Re: Nardil safe? » Lamdage22, posted by J Kelly on March 8, 2016, at 17:47:00
My advice is: Dont take anything that worsens psychosis including Nardil. Try to discontinue Zyprexa over the course of two years. 2.5 mg every 6 months. That way you avoid damage that APs can bring.
Try an ssri or snri. Viibryd causes less sexual side effects. If that doesnt help try Brintellix. Both cause less sexual SEs than other SSRI. Weight neutral.
If that doesnt help come back and start a new thread. You could try low dose Effexor if Viibryd and Brintellix dont work.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 8:43:31
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 6:14:42
You may be able to pull it off in one year reducing Zyprexa by 2.5 every three months. Do not go faster than that. If you have been stable for some time, go down. If you are pre-psychotic, go up again. 1-2 Years should be your timeframe. You should absolutely learn about your warning signs. You now recognize that you have been psychotic on Parnate. So now you have more knowledge than back then.
Inform others about your warning signs so, too to be absolutely safe. I am against Nardil now that i have read more posts from you.
It reminds me of my own history.
Posted by J Kelly on March 9, 2016, at 9:16:39
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 8:43:31
> I am against Nardil now that i have read more posts from you.
>
> It reminds me of my own history.
I can tell you feel passionately about this topic. You're the second poster to advise me against trialing Nardil at this time. I'm inclined to listen. I'm going to hold off for now.
This depression is killing me though :(Jade
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 12:48:23
In reply to Re: Nardil safe? » Lamdage22, posted by J Kelly on March 9, 2016, at 9:16:39
> > I am against Nardil now that i have read more posts from you.
> >
> > It reminds me of my own history.
>
>
> I can tell you feel passionately about this topic. You're the second poster to advise me against trialing Nardil at this time. I'm inclined to listen. I'm going to hold off for now.
>
>
> This depression is killing me though :(
>
> Jade
>
>What options other than Parnate have you explored?
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 15:20:42
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 12:48:23
Do you tap into the social support that is available to you? I find this to be quite comforting.
Posted by J Kelly on March 9, 2016, at 17:28:10
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 15:20:42
>
> What options other than Parnate have you explored?
Too many to recall just now. My brain is not 100% at the moment.
> Do you tap into the social support that is available to you? I find this to be quite comforting.
Well I'm posting here. In my mind that's a positive sign. When I'm in the "dark place" I don't want to interact with anyone.
I start a new yoga class next week. Truth be told I'm not looking forward to it but I'm going anyway.
My family is large and close and I am in frequent contact with just about all of them.
I've lost touch with my closest friends which hurts. I've just not been up for much socializing as of late. But they are all the type of friends that I could call out of the blue and say "hey lets hang out".
So there it is.
Enough about me. I am boring myself and I'm sure others :)
Jade
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 20:15:30
In reply to Re: Nardil safe? » Lamdage22, posted by J Kelly on March 9, 2016, at 17:28:10
Ok i have heard alot worse.
i am sleepless because of my CBD appointment:)
Posted by SLS on March 9, 2016, at 20:25:17
In reply to Re: Nardil safe?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2016, at 20:15:30
> i am sleepless because of my CBD appointment:)
Good luck!
- Scott
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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