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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 106. Go back in thread:
Posted by baseball55 on September 16, 2015, at 19:06:41
In reply to Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 15, 2015, at 21:57:16
> This seems about right considering Antidepressants have already been shown to decrease the concern for ones own wellbeing. And when one is less concerned about themselves, surely theyre likely to be less concerned about the wellbeing of others.
Where have anti-depressants been shown to decrease concern for one's well-being. Certainly, depression decreases concern for one's well-being, so much so that people contemplate, attempt and complete suicide. Maybe whatever studies you are referring to are measuring lack of concern on the part of those who HAVEN'T RESPONDED to AD's - apparently more that half of those prescribed ADs'. I know that I have little concern for my own well-being when depressed, virtually none, in fact. When drugs work, I start working out, engaging in activities, meditating, calling friends.
I'd like to see the source for your statement.
Posted by Hello321 on September 16, 2015, at 20:36:18
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes? » Hello321, posted by baseball55 on September 16, 2015, at 19:06:41
The possible effect of an antidepressant causing lack of concern for ones wellbeing im referring to has been warned about by every governing agency. It is written about clearly on every medication guide handed out to the patient. Im referring to the possibility of the prescription that has been prescribed by a well-meaning prescriber causing the taker to feel a strong/stronger desire to end their life. I consider this a very extreme lack of concern for ones wellbeing. No, these meds dont have this effect on the majority that take them. But it does happen and those who have a strong enough suicidal urge induced by the treatment simply arent here to post about it.
Its awesome when something like Celexa works as intended it increases the takers wellbeing, as some of you experienced. But what happens when someone experiences a worsening of their depression because of a medication like Celexa? What if their hopelessness, irritability and impulsiveness become worse because of the effect the med is having on their brain function? Sometimes these symptoms can get so bad that the one taking the med that feels the world is against them and that there is no way out. Am i wrong? And what can feeling like this lead to?
Posted by Hello321 on September 16, 2015, at 20:50:46
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 16, 2015, at 20:36:18
In the cases where a patients depression is increased because of the antidepressant working against the healthier brain functioning before this patient had before starting the treatment, why should it be expected that in each case this patient will continue to have the same level of concern for their wellbeing as when their depression wasnt as severe?
Sometimes the wrong treatment for ones mood can be like treating a skin cancer patient with ultraviolet rays.
Posted by Tomatheus on September 16, 2015, at 21:59:48
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 16, 2015, at 20:36:18
> The possible effect of an antidepressant causing lack of concern for ones wellbeing im referring to has been warned about by every governing agency. It is written about clearly on every medication guide handed out to the patient. Im referring to the possibility of the prescription that has been prescribed by a well-meaning prescriber causing the taker to feel a strong/stronger desire to end their life. I consider this a very extreme lack of concern for ones wellbeing. No, these meds dont have this effect on the majority that take them. But it does happen and those who have a strong enough suicidal urge induced by the treatment simply arent here to post about it.
>
> Its awesome when something like Celexa works as intended it increases the takers wellbeing, as some of you experienced. But what happens when someone experiences a worsening of their depression because of a medication like Celexa? What if their hopelessness, irritability and impulsiveness become worse because of the effect the med is having on their brain function? Sometimes these symptoms can get so bad that the one taking the med that feels the world is against them and that there is no way out. Am i wrong? And what can feeling like this lead to?Thank you for your explanation, Hello321. Yes, there are indeed warnings stating that antidepressant medications "may increase suicidal thoughts or actions in children, teenagers, and young adults within the first few months of treatment." And I most certainly agree with you that having suicidal thoughts and especially engaging in suicidal actions represent some of the most extreme forms of showing a lack of concern for one's well-being. The warnings about antidepressants and suicidal thoughts and actions also point out that depression and other serious mental illnesses can also cause suicidal thinking and/or behaviors, which does of course raise the question as to whether suicidal actions taken while taking antidepressant medications should be attributed to the medications or to the illness that the medications were prescribed to treat. I think that you'd probably agree with me that the answers to the question that was just raised aren't clear-cut. Antidepressant medications in many cases likely reduce suicidal thoughts and actions (and other instances of reduced concern for one's well-being) by treating the illness that gives rise to such thoughts and actions, but there might also be cases where the medications increase the likelihood that some patients will have suicidal thoughts or engage in suicidal actions. I think that concerns about both the consequences of leaving a depressive disorder untreated and about the consequences of doctors prescribing the wrong medication to the wrong patient are valid, and I think that more needs to be done to address both sets of concerns.
Tomatheus
Posted by europerep on September 17, 2015, at 5:53:26
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 16, 2015, at 20:36:18
> The possible effect of an antidepressant causing lack of concern for ones wellbeing im referring to has been warned about by every governing agency.
The DMV? The EPA? The NOAA Fisheries? Ok, I don't want to be overly disingenuous here, I just want to point out the absurdity of your statement.
> It is written about clearly on every medication guide handed out to the patient. Im referring to the possibility of the prescription that has been prescribed by a well-meaning prescriber causing the taker to feel a strong/stronger desire to end their life.Are you talking about the black box warnings on SSRIs? In that case you should limit your claim to SSRIs, rather than antidepressants as a whole. Or are you referring to the fact that in rare cases, when mood brightening takes longer to kick in than an increase in motivation in patients already harboring suicidal thoughts, these patients may experience increased suicidality and then possibly commit suicide? This can indeed happen, but it requires a lot of very specific circumstances (plus possibly errors on behalf of the prescriber), so making a statement as general and clear-cut as you made in your initial post is most certainly problematic.
> But it does happen and those who have a strong enough suicidal urge induced by the treatment simply arent here to post about it.Actually, a lot of people, including me, have reported experiencing a worsening of depression on certain drugs on this board. Yes, none of us did actually proceed to commit suicide in those circumstances, but the phenomenon is certainly not unknown.
> Its awesome when something like Celexa works as intended it increases the takers wellbeing, as some of you experienced. But what happens when someone experiences a worsening of their depression because of a medication like Celexa? What if their hopelessness, irritability and impulsiveness become worse because of the effect the med is having on their brain function? Sometimes these symptoms can get so bad that the one taking the med that feels the world is against them and that there is no way out. Am i wrong? And what can feeling like this lead to?You're not necessarily wrong, but what should be the conclusion? That we do not prescribe antidepressants at all anymore until we fully understand the (patho)physiology of the human brain? I really don't get your point in making all these claims about psychiatric drugs. I think there is much much more evidence (including on this board) for the terrible, devastating and life-threatening effects of untreated depression than there is for serious, irreversible or possibly fatal effects or side-effects. If you want to change our views on that, you really need more than absurd statements like the above that can be so easily disproven.
Posted by Hello321 on September 17, 2015, at 11:42:50
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes? » Hello321, posted by europerep on September 17, 2015, at 5:53:26
> The DMV? The EPA? The NOAA Fisheries? Ok, I don't want to be overly disingenuous here, I just want to point out the absurdity of your statement.
>
> the only absurd part is you not being able to recognize that im referring to every governing agency that monitors/controls antidepressant use.
Youre not going to get anywhere by nitpicking words to the point of absurdity.Every medication guide that has been handed to me at the pharmacy for an antidepressanr from any class, SSRI, NDRI, MAOI SNRI has had a warning about the possibility of taking it leading to inducing new or worsening suicidal thoughts. If it is only the SSRI class that is 100% officially recognized as doing this, and if that leads to you ONLY recognizing SSRI's as causing that effect (even adter all your experience of using these meds) then thats just fantastic.
>> Actually, a lot of people, including me, have reported experiencing a worsening of depression on certain drugs on this board. Yes, none of us did actually proceed to commit suicide in those circumstances, but the phenomenon is certainly not unknown.
>
> nice we agree that it does happen.> > Its awesome when something like Celexa works as intended it increases the takers wellbeing, as some of you experienced. But what happens when someone experiences a worsening of their depression because of a medication like Celexa? What if their hopelessness, irritability and impulsiveness become worse because of the effect the med is having on their brain function? Sometimes these symptoms can get so bad that the one taking the med that feels the world is against them and that there is no way out. Am i wrong? And what can feeling like this lead to?
>
> You're not necessarily wrong,I know this. And you ask me what should be done, and im not going to pretend i have the answer to every question. I could make suggestions that im certain some would like to nitpick to the point of absurdity. One suggestion is that every governing agency (that governs psychiatric meds) be as open and transparrent as possible with the public.
>
Posted by europerep on September 17, 2015, at 15:48:53
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 17, 2015, at 11:42:50
> Youre not going to get anywhere by nitpicking words to the point of absurdity.
My point is that you artificially inflate your claims to make them more convincing and less susceptible to criticism. Who, after all, would possible disagree with "every governing agency"? If you don't want "nitpicking", don't make claims that are patently false.
> If it is only the SSRI class that is 100% officially recognized as doing this, and if that leads to you ONLY recognizing SSRI's as causing that effect (even adter all your experience of using these meds) then thats just fantastic.Again, my point is that we need to look at the facts. As far as I know, in the US, only SSRIs have the black box warning about possible suicidality in teenagers as a side-effect. That other drugs (for me, tranylcypromine) can worsen depression is a different phenomenon. And by the by, I actually think there is something encouraging in this fact: if it worsens my depression, it does at least seem to hit the spot in my brain where depression is "happening", it just does the wrong thing there. Shows that we're not completely off the mark with today's treatments for depression.
> > nice we agree that it does happen.We *all* agree that it is happening. That is precisely why you get those warnings on the package inserts. So yes you are right here, but your point is completely trivial.
> One suggestion is that every governing agency (that governs psychiatric meds) be as open and transparrent as possible with the public.Sounds good, I don't think that many people would object. But posting outlandish claims is not going to get you there. If you want others to stay with the facts, you should do the same.
Posted by Christ_empowered on September 17, 2015, at 16:31:40
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes? » Hello321, posted by europerep on September 17, 2015, at 15:48:53
I think all ADs in the US have the black box. Even the atypicals sometimes used for depression have to have the warning.
Posted by Tomatheus on September 17, 2015, at 16:50:02
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes? » Hello321, posted by europerep on September 17, 2015, at 15:48:53
> Again, my point is that we need to look at the facts. As far as I know, in the US, only SSRIs have the black box warning about possible suicidality in teenagers as a side-effect. That other drugs (for me, tranylcypromine) can worsen depression is a different phenomenon. And by the by, I actually think there is something encouraging in this fact: if it worsens my depression, it does at least seem to hit the spot in my brain where depression is "happening", it just does the wrong thing there. Shows that we're not completely off the mark with today's treatments for depression.
Europerep,
As far as I can tell, the black box warning regarding suicidal thinking and behavior applies to all antidepressant medications.
Here is a page on the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's Web site listing the antidepressant medications that the warning applied to as of May 2007:
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/UCM096273
Also, as far as I can tell, it seems that the black box warning is even included in the information that comes with medications that are used in the add-on treatment of depression, given that the Abilify that I get from my pharmacy each month comes with the warning.
I haven't looked at all of the studies that have been conducted on the association between antidepressant use and suicidality. It may very well be the case that only SSRIs, or perhaps only the newer antidepressant medications in general, have been found to increase the risk of suicidal thoughts and behaviors in children, adolescents, and young adults. Nevertheless, it seems that the FDA's warning applies to all antidepressant medications, at least if the information I'm looking at is correct.
Tomatheus
Posted by europerep on September 17, 2015, at 17:32:12
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes? » europerep, posted by Tomatheus on September 17, 2015, at 16:50:02
Ok, I stand corrected on that point, thanks to Tomatheus and C_E for pointing it out.
Still, this hardly justifies Hello's general statement that "antidepressants have already been shown to decrease the concern for ones own wellbeing". For very few patients in certain age brackets antidepressants can (temporarily?) increase suicidality. Plus, the fact that the FDA mandates those warnings actually is a sign of openness and transparency.
So I think my larger point still stands.
Posted by baseball55 on September 17, 2015, at 18:42:46
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by europerep on September 17, 2015, at 17:32:12
A child psychiatrist I know believes some AD's increase suicide attempts in early treatment with teens because the AD's reduce vegetative symptoms before boosting mood, leading to a situation where people have the energy to carry out suicidal plans.
This is not at all the same as "reduced concern for one's well-being." Probably lots of people lie around thinking of suicide, but lack the energy and motivation to carry it through. It's possible that AD's allow people to get up and carry it through.
Posted by Hello321 on September 17, 2015, at 20:00:50
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by baseball55 on September 17, 2015, at 18:42:46
The depression each human being experiences is as unique as this persons brain. Im sure suicidal thoughts, or a worsening of ones current suicidal thoughts are caused by different experiences each person has when taking the medication. In some cases a suicide might very well be completed simply because the patient has enough energy induced by the med to follow through with it. Other cases it might be the worsening of depression a patient experiences as a result of the med not being right for them. I can see Sexual Dysfunction caused by the treatment resulting in suicide. Not being able to perform for a partner can have very negative effects in ones wellbeing. A healthy libido is a major part of a happy life for many in their "mating years". And in the rare cases sexual dysfunction persists long after an antidepressant is stopped, im sure this can
Be a terrible thing to experience.But to sum up, im thinking there are many reasons why one is pushed to take their life as a result of taking an antidepressant.
This is from Drugs.com:Antidepressants may have a role in inducing worsening of depression and the emergence of suicidality in certain patients during the early phases of treatment. An increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in children, adolescents, and young adults (aged 18 to 24 years) with major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders has been reported with short-term use of antidepressant drugs.
Adult and pediatric patients receiving antidepressants for MDD, as well as for psychiatric and nonpsychiatric indications, have reported symptoms that may be precursors to emerging suicidality, including anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia, hypomania, and mania. Causality has not been established
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2015, at 20:15:24
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by baseball55 on September 17, 2015, at 18:42:46
> A child psychiatrist I know believes some AD's increase suicide attempts in early treatment with teens because the AD's reduce vegetative symptoms before boosting mood, leading to a situation where people have the energy to carry out suicidal plans.
>
> This is not at all the same as "reduced concern for one's well-being." Probably lots of people lie around thinking of suicide, but lack the energy and motivation to carry it through. It's possible that AD's allow people to get up and carry it through.EXACTLY!
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on September 17, 2015, at 20:26:34
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 17, 2015, at 20:00:50
But really, hot damn this has gotten way past the point of being mundane. I just dont know why some are so unacceptable of any suggestion that a chemical designed to alter the fundamental functions of the brain that lead to a change in their outlook, thoughts and actions can indeed lead to the worst of scenarios, at least in a certain fraction of those who take it.
Everything these meds/chemicals do to tbe brain is unnatural. It is as artificial as it gets. Sometimes
they function as an amazing artificial crutch that greatly improves the life of the person taking it. But sometimes they work like an artificial "bat" that worsens the life of the person taking it and beats them down when theyre in need of help. Then there are times they are just mildly helpful or mildly harmful. They in no way function like an essential nutrient that is needed when a sick person is low on that nutrient. Maybe one day we will have medications that work tbat effeciciently, but unfortunately at this time we do not. So dont give ourselves more credit than we deserve. We have to recognize any problem before we can fix it.
Posted by europerep on September 18, 2015, at 4:55:40
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by baseball55 on September 17, 2015, at 18:42:46
> A child psychiatrist I know believes some AD's increase suicide attempts in early treatment with teens because the AD's reduce vegetative symptoms before boosting mood, leading to a situation where people have the energy to carry out suicidal plans.
>
> This is not at all the same as "reduced concern for one's well-being." Probably lots of people lie around thinking of suicide, but lack the energy and motivation to carry it through. It's possible that AD's allow people to get up and carry it through.Yes, that is indeed exactly what I had in mind when I wrote this:
"Or are you referring to the fact that in rare cases, when mood brightening takes longer to kick in than an increase in motivation in patients already harboring suicidal thoughts, these patients may experience increased suicidality and then possibly commit suicide? This can indeed happen, but it requires a lot of very specific circumstances (plus possibly errors on behalf of the prescriber), so making a statement as general and clear-cut as you made in your initial post is most certainly problematic."
Posted by europerep on September 18, 2015, at 5:07:00
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 17, 2015, at 20:26:34
> I just dont know why some are so unacceptable of any suggestion that a chemical designed to alter the fundamental functions of the brain that lead to a change in their outlook, thoughts and actions can indeed lead to the worst of scenarios, at least in a certain fraction of those who take it.
Do you actually read the replies to the things you post? In one of the first replies from Scott he linked to an earlier post of his where he described his own experience with reboxetine and made exactly that point, backed up with scientific references for various drugs. I, too, explicitly acknowledged the phenomenon of worsening depression and suicidality as a rare but possible effect of antidepressants, not the least because I have experienced it myself. And noone here calls into question the black box warnings on antidepressants.
So, if you actually read the posts here you will find that we are by no means "unacceptable" to this. I just object to your dramatizations, misrepresentations and exaggerations.
I also strongly disagree with your qualification of a working antidepressant as an "amazing artificial crutch", but that's for a different thread I guess.
Posted by SLS on September 18, 2015, at 5:59:47
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 17, 2015, at 20:26:34
I understand your argument that antidepressants can have clinical effects that are negative instead of positive. I agree with this. However, one cannot make the argument that an antidepressant can cause someone to begin practicing limbo dancing obsessively without scientific evidence. I don't think that the issue here is whether or not antidepressants can have negative effects on mood and cognition. However, I think you have been challenged to produce sources of information to validate your claim:
"Antidepressants have already been shown to decrease the concern for ones own wellbeing."
Perhaps you could be more specific as to what are the components to "wellbeing" that you are referring to.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 18, 2015, at 6:05:51
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes? » Hello321, posted by europerep on September 18, 2015, at 5:07:00
> I also strongly disagree with your qualification of a working antidepressant as an "amazing artificial crutch", but that's for a different thread I guess.
Don't get me started!
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on September 18, 2015, at 15:42:11
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes? » Hello321, posted by SLS on September 18, 2015, at 5:59:47
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/lexapro-side-effects.html
Scott, i honestly thought negative effects on ones mood and cognition were already well recognized possibilities of taking antidepressants. In the link from Drugs.com i posted above, there are many possible side effects listed that affect mood and cognition. And many of them seem like they can be pretty severe.
From the artocle:
"Antidepressants may have a role in inducing worsening of depression and the emergence of suicidality in certain patients during the early phases of treatment. An increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in children, adolescents, and young adults (aged 18 to 24 years) with major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders has been reported with short-term use of antidepressant drugs.Adult and pediatric patients receiving antidepressants for MDD, as well as for psychiatric and nonpsychiatric indications, have reported symptoms that may be precursors to emerging suicidality, including anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia, hypomania, and mania. Causality has not been established.[Ref]
"Very common (10% or more): Insomnia
Common (1% to 10%): Abnormal dreams, agitation, anxiety, nervousness, restlessness
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Abnormal thinking, aggravated depression, aggressive reaction, aggravated restlessness, alcohol problem, apathy, bruxism, confusion, confusional state, depersonalization, depression, emotional lability, excitability, feeling unreal, forgetfulness, hallucination, hypomania, irritability, jitteriness, obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic reaction, paroniria, sleep disorder, suicide attempt, tics
Frequency not reported: Mania, suicidal ideation
Postmarketing reports: Acute psychosis, anger, delirium, delusion, disorientation, non-accidental overdose, mood swings, nightmare, psychotic disorder, withdrawal syndrome"These side effects dont just affect the life of the person taking the med. They dont just end at the front door. They can very well have effects on the wellbeing of the patient. I am not understanding what more info people are insisting they need? Are they simply waiting for the FDA or who ever to tell them what the deal is before they make up their mind? I have my own anecdotal experience with such severe effects from various psychiatric meds, and ive mentioned it on this forum before. And im sure that has helped me to understand these severe reactions more easily. But i think theyre listed right there in front of us. And i feel some want to make it as techhnical as Bill Clinton when discussing what the meaning of the word "is" is.
Posted by SLS on September 18, 2015, at 16:26:14
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 18, 2015, at 15:42:11
I read the list of adverse events and reactions that you have provided, and I find them to be accurate.
I think that your use of the word "wellbeing" is what some people might be confused by. I interpreted your post as stating that one's desire to take care of themselves decreases as a result of antidepressant use. I have never had an antidepressant reduce my desire to take care of myself, despite occasional episodes of suicidal ideations.
The statistics are critical when interpreting the material that you quoted. Suicide attempt is considered to be uncommon, and may not be related to the treatment. Depressed people attempt suicide in the absence of drug treatment. Several different study methods have demonstrated that the rate of suicide attempts is lower in populations where antidepressant drug treatment increased. However, the media is now focused only on the "antidepressants cause suicide" phenomenon without ever discussing the rate at which this happens compared to the therapeutic effects that reduce suicide rates.
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/antidepressant-prescribing-associated-suicide-rates
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 18, 2015, at 16:38:57
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 18, 2015, at 15:42:11
> I have never had an antidepressant reduce my desire to take care of myself, despite occasional episodes of suicidal ideations.
I would add that when an antidepressant makes me feel worse, I am less functional and therefore have difficulties taking care of myself, even though I still want to. When an antidepressant makes me feel better, my sense of wellbeing and desire to take care of myself increase tremendously.
I guess the point is: it is difficult to make sweeping generalizations about mental illness and its treatment.
I admire your courage and persistence in helping to explore an important issue. I hope you don't feel attacked personally.
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on September 18, 2015, at 17:20:19
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes? » Hello321, posted by SLS on September 18, 2015, at 16:38:57
I like the discussion
Abnormal thinking, aggravated depression, aggressive reaction, aggravated restlessness, alcohol problem, apathy,onfusion, confusional state, depersonalization, depression, emotional lability, cute psychosis, anger, delirium, delusion, disorientation,mood swings, nightmare, psychotic disorder, withdrawal syndrome.
These are certain effects the treatments can have that stand out that surely can decrease a patoents wellbeing. And i think im referring to wellbeing in any sense of the word. Ive had experience with the effects of the treatment making me feel so bad, because of varying effects from different mefs, that i just think "F*** YOU!!" When it comes to anything and anyone. Just the general worsening of my mood caused by the med would make me almost completely intolerant of anyone that i feel at the time is getting in my way in life. And it is like my emotions and thpughts are capable of new lows that just didnt exist when not taking the med. So i think much darker, sometimes plain evil thoughts that never occured without the medication. Yeah, it was terrible. Then i have a friend who, upon trying an antidepressant (prozac) for the first time actually jumped off the bridge in my town. This kind of emotional instability is nothing like him. The bridge is i guess about 100 feet off the water below it, and he was fine because he landed in water. But he says prozac made him unable to control himself. This does seem off the wall to me, but im guessing this was an extreme case of mania? Hes on lithium noe and says it helps his mood a lot.
Then if a treatment just leads to a general worsening of depression, this is a decreased semse of wellbeing all by itself. But then there are the effects of worsened depression that can make it even worse. Being less emotionally capable to take care of yourself and your priorities, worsened sleep. Less energy. Irritability, etc... if these are new or made worse by an antixepressant, then wellbeing decreases further. And of course all these effects compounded together can have disasterous results.
Posted by SLS on September 18, 2015, at 17:50:15
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 18, 2015, at 17:20:19
> I like the discussion
What shall we do with cortisone?
"Psychiatric Adverse Effects of Corticosteroids"
"The most commonly reported corticosteroid-induced psychiatric disturbances are affective, including mania, depression, or mixed states. Most often, patients receiving short-term corticosteroid therapy present with euphoria or hypomania, whereas long- term therapy tends to engender depressive symptoms. 9 Although mood disorders occur in the vast majority of cases, either delirium or frank psychosis, typified by hallucinations, delusions, and disorganized thought, is the presenting syndrome in a sixth of patients. 10-12 Severe episodes of depression, mania, or psychosis frequently include suicidal ideation."
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 18, 2015, at 17:52:55
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes?, posted by Hello321 on September 18, 2015, at 17:20:19
Would you like to see antidepressants removed from the market or to be made illegal?
If not, why not?
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on September 19, 2015, at 14:03:10
In reply to Re: Young people on SSRI's commit more crimes? » Hello321, posted by SLS on September 18, 2015, at 17:52:55
Its a difficult decision when it comes to deciding how any medical treatnent with the possibility of inducing and such severe effects. I was thinking as long as the patient/caregiver is fully informed about the risks of treatment, then let them be the final decision maker on if they should take the med or not. But if others having nothing to do with this persons treatment are harmed in certain cases because of further negative effects on the patients mental health, then thats a problem.
But i will likely post more on this later. I had my whole post written wben i clicked out of the page on accident. Lol sucks. But i had this part copied so i'll just post thos right now.
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