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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by enrtwo on May 28, 2014, at 14:00:51
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others) » enrtwo, posted by europerep on May 28, 2014, at 13:52:47
I'm looking for a German doctor, preferably somewhere around Frankfurt, who might prescribe it, if I talk to them about my situation.
My current psychiatrist was actually going to prescribe it, but just before he did, his colleague came along and convinced him that it was illegal to prescribe and import this, which is of course bulls***, but now I guess he kinda thinks I was trying to trick him into doing something illegal. :/
Posted by europerep on May 28, 2014, at 14:35:50
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on May 28, 2014, at 14:00:51
In that case, I would suggest that you carefully try to educate your doctor on this. You can find importers of medical drugs in Germany via Google, maybe have them write you something to show your doc that it's perfectly fine and easy to import drugs, particularly ones from EU member states.
That would seem more promising than to go and see other docs who don't know you at all.
Posted by enrtwo on May 28, 2014, at 14:59:15
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others) » enrtwo, posted by europerep on May 28, 2014, at 14:35:50
Yeah, I tried that, though. His colleague was certain that those importers and pharmacies just tell you what you want to hear to make money and that they don't care about whether doctors could get into legal trouble for prescribing it. Then he looked it up on some list actually by some government institution where he told me it was marked "non-marketable". Since I had to do a lot of convincing my doctor in the first place, this stuff about it being illegal kinda reinforced his hesitations. Last time I saw him, after his colleague told him all this, he actually seemed quite angry and said I should "go somewhere else and get a prescription there", if I thought it was legal. So I don't really see a big chance there and have pills left for only few days, anyway. :/ This doctor is actually very "liberal" with meds and prescribes you most things you want, so if it was available here in Germany, he'd probably have prescribed me two dozens packages right away. lol But since he has no experience with imports and is too old to go google stuff, I guess I'm f***ed. :/
Posted by europerep on May 29, 2014, at 7:06:03
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on May 28, 2014, at 14:59:15
Hmm, in that case I would try to find an experienced psychiatrist who is comfortable with prescribing MAOIs and has a rational attitude concerning importing medication.
But if you only have a few tablets left, I would go to Frankfurt's university hospital, where they surely have something like "emergency" outpatient consultations for psychiatric patients and see whether they can help you.
Posted by enrtwo on May 29, 2014, at 15:17:08
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others) » enrtwo, posted by europerep on May 29, 2014, at 7:06:03
Thanks for your advice. :)
I would also have the option to try Parnate, but of course trying different doses and finding out if it works at all, would take itself a few months. I have also written to said government organization to please confirm that it is legal to import, so I might make a last attempt to convince my doctor, but after waiting for two weeks, no answer yet. Since Nardil stays in the blood for 2-3 weeks after stopping it, I'm thinking to wait for an answer a little longer and maybe use benzos in case of emergency. I guess I shouldn't start Parnate right after Nardil anyway, right?
Posted by europerep on May 29, 2014, at 16:44:07
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on May 29, 2014, at 15:17:08
Actually, the half-life of phenelzine is fairly short, but its mechanism of action doesn't depend on blood serum levels, so in that sense you will probably notice only a gradual loss of effect. But, personally, I wouldn't be happy with that.
You probably won't hear from the any government body because the law clearly states what is allowed. Maybe you could ask your pharmacist, who is obviously a trustworthy source on this issue, to talk to your doctor? That might help.
Posted by europerep on May 30, 2014, at 16:34:17
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on May 29, 2014, at 15:17:08
Oh and you're right, switching from one MAOI to another is kind of tricky. But I don't know whether one would need to have a full wash-out period of two weeks (until MAO inhibition has worn off) before starting a new MAOI.
Posted by enrtwo on June 1, 2014, at 8:06:49
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others) » enrtwo, posted by europerep on May 30, 2014, at 16:34:17
You are right, europerep, having a pharmacist talk to my doctor seems a good idea. Before doing that, I'll try to see if I can go to the outpatient clinic tomorrow at the university and explain my problem to a doctor there. If they would agree to write me just a one month script, I could show a copy to my doctor to show him that if they write a script for it, it sure can't be illegal. However, even if I happened to succeed tomorrow, I'd still be without pills for a good week, since it takes that long to import it. But in one week, it would surely keep most of its effect.
The big problem with Nardil here in Germany is that nobody seems to know it. Even my doctor, who is well over 60 (and that's probably the reason he would write me a script for Parnate) and has been a doctor already for some years back around 1980, when Nardil was still available here, has never heard of phenelzine. And as soon as a doc hears that a substance has to bee imported, it quickly becomes "suspect" to them, no matter how harmless.
Anyway, thanks for your replies, I'll let you know how it went.
Posted by europerep on June 1, 2014, at 15:40:30
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on June 1, 2014, at 8:06:49
Yeah, try that... be honest to the doctor and say right away that you're there for a prescription of a very particular drug blah blah import blah blah only drug that works for you blah blah...
And are you sure that phenelzine was available in Germany at some point in time? I thought that it never was, but it's totally possible I am wrong on that.
Well, good luck anyways, and yeah, post back how it went if you like...
Posted by enrtwo on June 2, 2014, at 12:05:55
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others) » enrtwo, posted by europerep on June 1, 2014, at 15:40:30
Well, kinda funny conversation with the doc: "What's the med's name?" "Nardil. It's an import from England." "I can't find that on my list of German meds here. What's the active ingredient's name?" "Phenelzine. It's from England." "I can't find that [on my list of German meds] either. Anyway, I can't prescribe you anything, you have never been here before."
So much for that, I guess I'll just try some Parnate then and see what happens. It's not like it's completely useless, it might actually have some advantages to it and work better than expected. And if it does, I can at least be sure to always get as much as I need. Because, after all, what use is the best med, if you can't even get it?
Posted by europerep on June 3, 2014, at 15:24:51
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on June 2, 2014, at 12:05:55
Sorry to hear that. I'm beginning to think university or academic hospitals are not really the place to look for "creative" and open-minded/well-informed doctors. Or rather, it depends on what type of "creativity" you are looking for. I could have much more easier been prescribed various atypical antipsychotics as an augmentation agent than an irreversible MAOI ("We haven't used those since twenty years ago."). I'm not sure whether that is rational.
Anyway, if phenelzine works for you, I would be careful not to "throw that away." Going off a drug and later back on it does usually, but not always, produce the same result. You could do the looking-for-a-doctor-that-prescribes-MAOIs thing. Many of us have been there. But if you already had it imported before, I think your pharmacist would be the most promising option right now. If he can't convince your doc, ask him whether he can help you find another one. That's what I would do in any case.
Good luck, with whatever you decide to do...
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 4, 2014, at 12:43:52
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on June 2, 2014, at 12:05:55
I speak english because German would be unkind. I took Nardil in Germany.
I know someone south of Munich wo would prescribe it.There are good Doctors here you just have to find them! Im not a big fan of that Dr but he would basically prescribe anything non narcotic.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 4, 2014, at 12:46:19
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on June 2, 2014, at 12:05:55
Nardil is cool but makes you gain. Parnate is cool but overstimulating. Id prefer Nardil with Metformin.
And both have sent me into maniac psychosis, but that is just me.
Posted by enrtwo on June 5, 2014, at 4:54:48
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by Lamdage22 on June 4, 2014, at 12:46:19
Good to hear there is some hope. I don't know if I may ask for this here, but if you would mention the doctor's name over PM, if all else fails, that would be nice ...
After showing my doc the government's answer that came in just yesterday, he agreed to prescribe me one bottle so I can continue for about 20 days. At the same time, he referred me to the university emergency outpatient clinic, explicitly writing down for the doc there that I have had positive results with Nardil. Despite this being a university clinic, I have my doubts, though, that more people will know phenelzine there, but I'll certainly give it a try.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 5, 2014, at 10:16:22
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on June 5, 2014, at 4:54:48
No problem.
Just turn babble mail on: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#babblemail
Posted by europerep on June 5, 2014, at 14:42:02
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on June 5, 2014, at 4:54:48
Good to hear that.
By the way, I'm curious: what does an imported box of UK Nardil cost you? I wouldn't be surprised if it was quite expensive, despite the fact that it has been off patent for ages. Drugs in the UK are, in my experience, very expensive...
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 6, 2014, at 4:44:33
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others) » enrtwo, posted by europerep on June 5, 2014, at 14:42:02
Im not 100% sure how much it costs. Contact your pharmacy, they can tell you.
You've got mail
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 6, 2014, at 4:46:48
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by Lamdage22 on June 6, 2014, at 4:44:33
If you can make a compelling argument together with your doctor about why you need exactly this medication, you can try to get it paid by medical insurance. Just contact them about it.
Me and my doc tried for Metformin. Didn't work, but Metformin is really cheap over here so i don't really care. I liked that my doc stood up for my needs though. Cool guy.
Posted by europerep on June 6, 2014, at 5:11:50
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by Lamdage22 on June 6, 2014, at 4:44:33
> Im not 100% sure how much it costs. Contact your pharmacy, they can tell you.
>
> You've got mailYou mixed us up, I'm not looking for a doc. And my question regarding the price was directed at enrtwo.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 6, 2014, at 5:38:06
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others) » Lamdage22, posted by europerep on June 6, 2014, at 5:11:50
Oh... i apologize.
Posted by europerep on June 6, 2014, at 8:43:14
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by Lamdage22 on June 6, 2014, at 5:38:06
No problem ;)...
Posted by enrtwo on June 7, 2014, at 4:19:39
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others) » Lamdage22, posted by europerep on June 6, 2014, at 8:43:14
Thanks for your answers, guys. :)
Payment for the pills isn't so much of a concern for me right now. Though it's really not cheap, I am willing and at the moment, able, to pay for it, if I just can get the scripts.
So, the guy in the pharmacy told me it was something around 65 + shipping (which could be somewhat high with the pills having to be cooled) and so I will now have to wait about 7-10 days until I can take another Nardil. I'm already feeling more stressed after 3-4 days without Nardil, just when I was getting so calm that even my palm sweating was going back, but the feeling of everyone staring at me all the time so far hasn't returned. I'm going to just take the dose I left off with (75mg) when the pills arrive and hope the effect will be there again right away.
My current plan to get running prescriptions is to get an appointment at a private pratice (so I'll have to pay for the appointment myself) of a psychiatrist who has lots of experience abroad, participates in congresses, etc. and is well rated on the web. That seems to be the type of doctor where you have a good chance they know the med from somewhere + she's a little older, which might make her somewhat more pro-MAOIs. Biggest problem might be getting an appointment in time before my new pills will have run out.Best regards
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 7, 2014, at 5:18:35
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by enrtwo on June 7, 2014, at 4:19:39
Feeling like being watched doesnt sound good..
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 11, 2014, at 12:26:17
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by Lamdage22 on June 7, 2014, at 5:18:35
Oh you said you didn't feel like being watched...
If this arises again.. you should really be careful with Nardil. I have been down this road. And thats a road that goes to the lowest lows.
Let your doctor know if something is going on! And you can post here, too.
Posted by enrtwo on July 6, 2014, at 14:31:16
In reply to Re: Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by Lamdage22 on June 11, 2014, at 12:26:17
So, a little update: I now found a doctor who also didn't know about Nardil, but whom I could convince that Nardil is the best treatment available, so he helped me write to my insurance for them to cover the costs, and, of course, they denied. Now that the insurance won't cover the costs, he also refuses to write me a script, because he has his own practice and fears to be brought to court if any bad side effects should occur (apparently, that risk wouldn't have been there if the insurance had agreed to pay for it, 'cause then they would've been "in" on it). And remember that one script I got my old psychiatrist to write me 4 weeks ago? I am still waiting for that Nardil to finally be delivered to my pharmacy. :/
So, what it boils down to is this: Does anyone know a (UK) online pharmacy who might ship Nardil without a script (PM or something would do)? There is a certain one I had gotten my very first three boxes from, but they very soon weren't able to supply it anymore. I now have this letter from my current doc written for the insurance in support of the med which I might use to try yet another p-doc, or maybe I might eventually even convince my current p-doc (who is on vacation at the moment for another two weeks) to prescribe it for me, but since all of these things could take forever and I'll soon have some important tests I need to study for and therefore won't be able to check out some dozens p-docs till I find the right one, an online pharmacy not requiring a script seems to be my only hope right now. :/
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