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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 17:08:50
Those of you who have been following my posts know that I was reluctant to start taking zyprexa. I finally did and I'm so confused/scared about where to go with it. I started with 2.5 then up to 5 mg which did nothing. My pdoc then had me increase to 7.5 mg which made me feel very flat, unemotional, and I think more depressed. I tried this for 5 days then went back to 5 mg. on my own. He wants me to increase to 10 mg. but I haven't yet as I'm afraid that it will make me feel even worse. My pdoc insists that zyprexa does not make you feel depressed. Did others have similar experiences as they went up on dose? I don't want to miss out on the chance that the 10 mg. could be the magic bullet yet I don't want to sink into a deeper hole. My diagnosis is depression/anxiety and it's being used as an augmentation to pristiq. Has anyone ever heard of such a high dose as a augmentation?
Posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2011, at 17:16:11
In reply to Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 17:08:50
I don't have experience with zyprexa, JG.
Did you feel anything by dropping back in dose?
Thanks for the update. I've been wondering how it was going. I'm going to hold further comment until experienced others weigh in.
Hang in there.
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2011, at 17:20:40
In reply to Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 17:08:50
Darn. So much for holding back.
One sentence popped out at me: the pdoc insisting zyprexa does not exacerbate depression.
How can s/he be sure? It happened to me on Abilify. But I think that is known about Abilify.
Do you have the days to give a 10mg dose a try? When do you see or contact your doc next?
(Like who here has time to just spend gambling on their mood and functionality....)
Posted by Christ_empowered on August 11, 2011, at 18:27:51
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared » jerseygal1, posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2011, at 17:20:40
Any antipsychotic can cause "neuroleptic dysphoria." Its particularly common with higher doses of older antipsychotics (think high dose Haldol or Thorazine), but it kind of comes with the territory with any antipsychotic. The "atypicals" have been pushed as cleaner, safer, better, etc., so lots of shrinks are reluctant to admit that they're really just slightly cleaned up antipsychotics, nothing more, nothing less.
It happens. Low-dose Zyprexa gave me akathisia, even though I was taking 2mgs/day Klonopin (benzos can suppress akathisia). Seroquel made my life hell on earth; I even had a crying fit.
Don't let your doctor tell you what you're feeling. It might help to use their jargon against them--that's what I've had to do. Don't say "zyprexa makes me depressed," try "zyprexa makes me dysphoric." That's what I said about Seroquel when a shrink wanted to put me on it after a psychotic manic episode. She made a face, then gave me better drugs.
Posted by morgan miller on August 11, 2011, at 18:35:19
In reply to Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 17:08:50
Your doctor is lying to your face. This is sooo typical of doctors, especially in psychiatry. They will say anything to make you their guinea pig.
Zyprexa made me depressed, there is no doubt in my mind. Maybe I was not always depressed on Zyprexa, but overall, I was, and getting better required me getting off that sh*t.
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 11, 2011, at 19:01:20
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by morgan miller on August 11, 2011, at 18:35:19
Zyprexa added to lexapro ended my depression within 48 hours (as did abilify and risperadone). I don't recall what dose I took. I do know that I started gaining weight immediately and stopped taking it for that reason.
Posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 19:11:18
In reply to Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 17:08:50
I noticed that I don't feel so flat and depressed since I've cut back. But that's been replaced with anxiety. And I think I may be feeling some akathasia as I feel like I have this inner restlessness. Maybe I'm feeling the anxiety because I'm tired of all the med changes and nothing working. Pdoc also wants me to increase pristiq to 100 mg. so I guess I'll try that and see what happens. My pdoc is on vacation so I won't see or talk to him for at least 2 weeks.
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2011, at 20:55:28
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 19:11:18
Why not a benzo? None of those side effects with one? Lasts for years before tolerance 41 years for me now. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 11, 2011, at 21:08:36
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 19:11:18
> I noticed that I don't feel so flat and depressed since I've cut back. But that's been replaced with anxiety. And I think I may be feeling some akathasia as I feel like I have this inner restlessness. Maybe I'm feeling the anxiety because I'm tired of all the med changes and nothing working. Pdoc also wants me to increase pristiq to 100 mg. so I guess I'll try that and see what happens. My pdoc is on vacation so I won't see or talk to him for at least 2 weeks.
jg,
You wrote,[...anxiety...akathesia..inner restessness..all the med changes and nothing working...at least 2 weeks...] The combination of drugs you describe here could be life-threatening. They are both CNS depressants and could effect the respiratory aspect and othe CNS issues. And there is wanting one to be upped?
Akathesia {can} go away if the drug is stopped. Do you really want to continue with these drugs if there is the potential for the akathesia to not go away?
There could be an emergency number for you to call he prescriber. Try the office or the AMA.
There are some people that depressing their CNS could be more of a risk to cause death than others. If you are taking other drugs, not psychotropic, those drugs could also be CNS depressants which could increase your risk of death.
The "akathesia" could also be tardive dyskinesia or some form of dystonia.
If there is that nothing is working, what expectation could you have to think that adding another drug or increasing the doage would do any better for you/ And could it not the case be that adding another drug or increasing the ddosage could be life-threatening?
Let us reason together. If you could post some more information, and then I could respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by morgan miller on August 11, 2011, at 21:51:39
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by emmanuel98 on August 11, 2011, at 19:01:20
> Zyprexa added to lexapro ended my depression within 48 hours (as did abilify and risperadone). I don't recall what dose I took. I do know that I started gaining weight immediately and stopped taking it for that reason.
You likely took a pretty low dose if it were used as an adjunct for depression.
Zyprexa can work as an antidepressant, especially at lower doses, but it can also cause depressive symptoms.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2011, at 22:30:49
In reply to Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 17:08:50
> Those of you who have been following my posts know that I was reluctant to start taking zyprexa. I finally did and I'm so confused/scared about where to go with it. I started with 2.5 then up to 5 mg which did nothing. My pdoc then had me increase to 7.5 mg which made me feel very flat, unemotional, and I think more depressed. I tried this for 5 days then went back to 5 mg. on my own. He wants me to increase to 10 mg. but I haven't yet as I'm afraid that it will make me feel even worse. My pdoc insists that zyprexa does not make you feel depressed. Did others have similar
experiences as they went up on dose? I don't want to miss out on the chance that the 10 mg. could be the magic bullet yet I don't want to sink into a deeper hole. My diagnosis is depression/anxiety and it's being used as an augmentation to pristiq. Has anyone ever heard of such a high dose as a
augmentation?JG, Abilify and Zyprexa might be like apples and oranges, but here's my experience with Abilify and pristiq. 2.5 didn't *work*, so then 5. I felt worse, but being depressed so long and whatever, I didn't know. So we go to 10. Then I knew pretty quickly it was a no-go. However, all complaints, including an inner agitation remitted quickly/imeadiately upon dose reduction. After that pristiq was pushed to 100mg which was also pretty quickly apparent a no-go. It was not like the
umpteen weeks spent waiting for the 50mg pristiq to kick in.I do not believe pristiq has shown great efficacy for most users at 100mg, but there must be some, and for those, then it works, and that is what matters.
So, my comfort to you is that, in my experience the dosage increases were fast in telling the efficacy and in their remittance, and I regained a baseline stability pretty quickly.
Someone else said this above, but the bottom line is how you feel, not what the doctor says, because we are all unique in our responses and if someone is the first outside a doctor's experience, so be it.
You can also be the first responder to a treatment that your doctor does not anticipate.
Hang in there, JG. I realize the stakes are high, here. If you can, try to avoid alarming yourself with worst case scenarios. I think you will navigate this transition and come out alright.
Have you googled the archives on zyprexa augmentation?
Continuing best wishes.
Posted by B2chica on August 12, 2011, at 8:03:17
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 19:11:18
Hi jerseygall.
sorry you're having such a tricky time right now.i wanted to comment about zyprexa experience.
zyprexa has always seemed to work for me...however, it is normally the 10mg dose that does it. even as augmentation.and yes at 5 i have felt some worsening depression, but as soon as i go to 10 it abides.
if you are truly going to give zyprexa a chance i would at least give the 10mg a try. (ps DONT go up too fast, i got some weird tongue swelling from that once, i went back down for about three more days they went up to 10)about the added anxiety. zyprexa greatly decreases anxiety, my guess is as soon as you stopped zyprexa all your anxiety came back quickly and that is why is seems so bad.
about pristiq. i've tried 100 but didnt notice any difference from 50...HOWEVER, that was me. for you it is worth a shot, but this may increase your anxiety so have a benzo or something on the side to help out with this...
and ps. dont listen to pdoc OR ANYONE else that's trying to tell you, you dont feel the way you do.
YES, you can feel more depression on ANY mood medication regardless of what it is or what its for
YES you can actually feel the opposite reaction of what a drug is supposed to do...
The doc honestly is guessing just like you are...any psychiatrist worth his weight KNOWS THIS. There is no perfect science to this game. it Should be based Not just on pdocs experience, but on you knowing your body and its reactions as well!!Hang in there jerseygall...it will get figured out. just make sure to give each med enough time and the right dose to give it a fair shake (unless of course you are feeling way worse on it...)
Best Wishes
B2c.
Posted by jerseygal1 on August 12, 2011, at 9:45:33
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by B2chica on August 12, 2011, at 8:03:17
B2Chica, at what rate do you usually increase the zyprexa? Do you go from 5 mg. to 10 mg. and how many days do you allow in between?
Posted by B2chica on August 12, 2011, at 15:04:52
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared » B2chica, posted by jerseygal1 on August 12, 2011, at 9:45:33
i normally go up from 5 to 10 allowing at least one week on 5.
i was in the hospital when i got that weird tongue swelling thing. was on 5 for only two days and they upped me to 10. so they put me on 7.5 then to 10.
only time have had that happen.normally my pdoc waits at least a week or two. he's very conservative when it comes to tapering on and off meds. probably why i've had mostly good luck going on and off meds (with this pdoc).
Best Wishes jg!
b2c.
Posted by jerseygal1 on August 12, 2011, at 15:23:03
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared » jerseygal1, posted by B2chica on August 12, 2011, at 15:04:52
Thanks B2C. Maybe I'll give it a try again. I went up to 7.5 mg. then tapered myself down to 2.5 mg. But I keep wondering if I should've gone up to 10 mg. like the doctor wanted me to. When you go up to 10 mg., do you feel flat or emotionless or do you feel okay?
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on August 12, 2011, at 21:48:22
In reply to Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 11, 2011, at 17:08:50
Zyprexa is calming medication but it also is a sedative in some aspects because it slows th nuerons down or actually stops them from transportation. I took 100mg one time when I was experimeting with it and it made me just tired. I have a resistance to medications and even high doses don't do much unless there Schendele II drugs, or Narcotics.
The firt couple months Zyprexa made me where I couldnt function but after a while and you let your system get used to it. Its nothing. I take 20mg at night. I dont even notice it anymore.
Ask about Risperadal or Abilify.
Posted by B2chica on August 15, 2011, at 7:53:35
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared » B2chica, posted by jerseygal1 on August 12, 2011, at 15:23:03
actually i felt really good, after the lethargy wore off (about 2 weeks.
i was able to think pretty clear.
however i have heard some responders here had some issues with not thinking clearly...so i guess it depends. but just know that there are those out there that have responded very well to it.
Good luck!
b2c.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 15, 2011, at 9:24:09
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by B2chica on August 15, 2011, at 7:53:35
B2c, two weeks for zyprexa to work?
I have been misguided in my thinking. I thought it either worked instantly or not. I hear of people using it as needed.
I started risperidone almost two weeks ago and have fought with it every day. My doc just wants me to stay steady for three more weeks.
Posted by B2chica on August 15, 2011, at 9:58:08
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared » B2chica, posted by floatingbridge on August 15, 2011, at 9:24:09
No...i must have misworded it.
it works almost instantly for me, regarding depression etc. usually within 24/48 hours.
however i remain a little foggy for a week or so(at 10) then the fog clears and i can think fine.
i was just referring to the clouded thinking part.
its mostly due to the lethargy, mind and body are tired until i get used to it.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 15, 2011, at 10:28:16
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by B2chica on August 15, 2011, at 9:58:08
B2c, do you ever have interdose issuses, or you take it once a day?
Posted by jerseygal1 on August 15, 2011, at 16:54:16
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared » B2chica, posted by floatingbridge on August 15, 2011, at 9:24:09
FB, good luck with your trial of risperidone. I am on day 2 of the increased dosage of zyprexa. I think that I may be feeling less depressed but I feel so out of it. I don't feel like myself. I had an appointment with my therapist today and I felt so spacey the whole time. I usually can have a few good cries during my appointment but I wasn't able to cry at all. Crying is usually a good release for me. I hope this passes.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2011, at 8:40:11
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared » floatingbridge, posted by jerseygal1 on August 15, 2011, at 16:54:16
Keep us posted JG.
Good luck!
Posted by B2chica on August 17, 2011, at 8:42:23
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared » floatingbridge, posted by jerseygal1 on August 15, 2011, at 16:54:16
took it everyday.
give the cloudyness at least two weeks three if your up to it. but anything longer than that and if its negatively effecting your life you will want to talk with your doc.best wishes.
b2c.
Posted by jerseygal1 on August 17, 2011, at 16:20:03
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by B2chica on August 17, 2011, at 8:42:23
It is now day four of zyprexa at 10 mg. I don't feel so spacey anymore but I also don't feel like the zyprexa is helping in any way. I guess I have to give it a few more days. It sounds like most pdocs think an atypical will work within a week. I'll be so disappointed if this doesn't work. I'm so tired of all this and not feeling well. I'm supposed to go on vacation to Yellowstone in another week and a half and I'm not even sure I can manage it. Nothing like having a depressed person along on vacation to drag everyone down:). It was something I planned when I was having some periods of feeling pretty good. Zyprexa, please work your magic with me!
Posted by floatingbridge on August 17, 2011, at 18:36:22
In reply to Re: Zyprexa update - I'm so confused/scared, posted by jerseygal1 on August 17, 2011, at 16:20:03
Fingers still crossed here JG.
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