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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 95. Go back in thread:
Posted by morgan miller on September 17, 2010, at 13:34:17
In reply to entirely possible, I think, posted by Christ_empowered on September 17, 2010, at 11:35:42
While I do believe that many or most medications cause structural and functional changes in the brain that may translate to some form of damage, if someone feels good on an AD or other medication over a long period of time, and they take good care of themselves, eating well and exercising, there probably will not be any noticeable damage that interferes with someone's function and feeling of well being, especially as long as they continue taking the medication. The only reason why I had any problems after 7 years of being on Zoloft is because 5 months after stopping it I experienced a severe mixed episode, as a direct result of stress and undiagnosed bipolar, not as a result of changes in my brain that took place after being on Zoloft for 8 years. I know this because after being diagnosed I looked back over the years and realized I experienced my first mixed episode when I was 22, before I had ever been on medication. I could make the argument that excessive alcohol consumption contributed to this first mixed episode though.
After getting off Zoloft I actually functioned and felt very similar to the way I did on Zoloft. I believe on the reasons why the transition went the way it was a result of my constant religious workout/exercise routine. Being in great shape and exercising the right way can do wonders for the health and resilience of your brain.
I have several friends that have been on SSRIs and got off them and do not complain of any long term issues that they could associate with some form of brain damage. I just think it really depends on the individual and there is not the epidemic that there appears to be. We cannot continue to rely on just the people that report about their negative experiences on the internet. There are many many many people taking AD's out there that never come on to the internet because they just don't experience anything bad enough to report. So, we really don't know how the ratio between people suffering from AD use and people that are not. This issue definitely needs some close attention and extensive study.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on September 17, 2010, at 13:39:46
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged?, posted by linkadge on September 17, 2010, at 6:42:22
> You know what, some people are so institutionalized in the system, that their brains are hardwired to not even think the way you or I.
>
> A lot of people here just want to believe standard medical opinion. You're not alone, but I've found if you express such opinions, you're not going to get a lot of support for that opinion here.
>
> Linkadge
>Linkage, opinions like, "Antidepressants don't work" are a little too extreme for most people here that are trying to find an antidepressant that works for them. As far as risks with medications, I think there are many people the come here agree that there are risks and medications are far from being what they should be.
Morgan
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2010, at 18:07:31
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged?, posted by violette on September 17, 2010, at 11:33:51
> but medications, while can increase functioning or enable people to live, put a band-aid on the problems.
For me, it is psychotherapy that has been the band-aid that has helped me cope with bipolar depression in the interim while I continue to seaerch for a biological treatment to remediate a brain disorder. I also like the idea that psychotherapy can help reduce the "depressive pressure" of psychosocial stress that can serve to trigger a new episode, increase chronicity, induce treatment resistance, or cause medication breakthrough.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on September 17, 2010, at 19:04:15
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged?, posted by SLS on September 17, 2010, at 18:07:31
Well had the Mri of brain with and without contrast. I realize this wasn't a Pet Scan but they gave me a CD for the computer of the scan and it belongs to me. So I fully intend to self or try to my scan. What would I look for as brain damage? And mine would be more from 40 years on benzos and times inbetween when didn't need them? Phillipa
Posted by Conundrum on September 17, 2010, at 22:54:40
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged? » Conundrum, posted by Huxley on September 17, 2010, at 2:58:49
Yeh the old ones did have their problems, but its not hidden from view that older drugs can cause some bad side effects. At least with the TCA's you're doctor knows memory loss and cognitive problems are legitimate when it happens with SSRIs all is denied.
This is just one example and I'm just talking about cognitive symptoms of antidepressants. Yes all APs cause TD. There is no getting around that, old or new.
BTW Huxley is an interesting handle is there a reason you chose that name?
Posted by Conundrum on September 17, 2010, at 22:58:08
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged?, posted by linkadge on September 17, 2010, at 6:42:22
I don't think you are crazy. Maybe you'll prevent someone from making an unnecessary jump on to some pills. I wish I had someone warning me when I was a kid. Now I'm using drugs to change what drugs changed. I've been off long enough to know that the problems after stopping ADs don't vanish on their own. Sometimes I"m hoping I'm just crazy and this is psychosomatic and there is a way out.
Posted by huxley on September 18, 2010, at 4:21:31
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged? » Conundrum, posted by Huxley on September 17, 2010, at 2:58:49
Linkadge thats cool, I always have liked this quote,
'All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident'
I dont know if my opinons are true or not. I believe them to be true using my experience as evidence and others I have read.
It is a good point that maybe we are just a small sub group of people but I think that anyone who has been on SSRIs for 6-7+ years is going to have a hell of a time coming off them.
I hope, I really hope that any changes to my mind can be undone and I can get back to where I was before I started taking anything.
Because life has just become a balancing act of a cocktail of medications, it consumes your life.
If they could develop a medication that would work and work consistantly and not poop out then I would have no problem taking it because I have a genuine problem, like most here. We are not wired to be able to cope with life as easily as others there is no doubt about that.
But are we being ethically delt with by psychiatry? No I dont think so. I think there treatment is quite brutal and dangerous.
I wonder how many people have killed themselves beause of med induced states? I know the times I have been suididal is from medications.
Dont take your SSRIs for a day and you will be suicidal. Dont take your APs for a couple of days and you will be suicidal. Take to much of an SSRI and you will get into an agitated state which will be described as bipolar.
The huxley handle comes from Aldous Huxley. If you have a minute read up on him. An interesting man.
Posted by Conundrum on September 18, 2010, at 7:01:47
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged?, posted by huxley on September 18, 2010, at 4:21:31
Given your thoughts on psychotropic drugs, its interesting that you are using his name as a handle.
Posted by linkadge on September 18, 2010, at 9:48:54
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged? » huxley, posted by Conundrum on September 18, 2010, at 7:01:47
I don't think huxley is intrinsically anti-med.
Its just like me, I am very in support of the idea of ameliorating mental illness through psychopharmacology. I just don't think SSRIs are all that great an attempt at it.
Linkadge
Posted by sigismund on September 18, 2010, at 15:25:32
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged? » huxley, posted by Conundrum on September 18, 2010, at 7:01:47
>Given your thoughts on psychotropic drugs, its interesting that you are using his name as a handle.
Somewhere Aldous Huxley wrote about a trip which was aborted with an AP. The whole thing was agonising for him.
Posted by huxley on September 18, 2010, at 19:50:05
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged? » huxley, posted by Conundrum on September 18, 2010, at 7:01:47
> Given your thoughts on psychotropic drugs, its interesting that you are using his name as a handle.
I think you are reading to much into an internet handle. It was chosen at the drop of a hat.
Posted by olivia12 on September 19, 2010, at 18:18:27
In reply to Have our brains been permanently damaged?, posted by Huxley on September 16, 2010, at 18:34:23
Huxley--if you feel better as a result of taking them, why worry about any of this--maybe brain chemistry is altered, but what is the alternative? A lifeless life? I believe Dr. Bob has created a wonderful site and yes, please do not believe all that you read. Brain chemistry is complex and remains a mystery to the most astute. I hope that you find a trusted therapist and a med that works for you:)
Posted by olivia12 on September 19, 2010, at 18:21:15
In reply to entirely possible, I think, posted by Christ_empowered on September 17, 2010, at 11:35:42
Why do you call yourself "Christ empowered"? I find that to be a bit sacreligious or maybe you are manic? No disrespect meant.
Posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 19:15:15
In reply to Re: entirely possible, I think, posted by olivia12 on September 19, 2010, at 18:21:15
I don't think he means that he is Christ and that he is empowered. I think he means he is empowered because he believes on Christ as they say.
Posted by olivia12 on September 19, 2010, at 19:21:43
In reply to Re: entirely possible, I think » olivia12, posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 19:15:15
Oh, my apologies--I missed that. God has been a huge part of my life and I have a lot of respect for a higher power. Thanks:)
Posted by linkadge on September 19, 2010, at 19:26:13
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged?, posted by olivia12 on September 19, 2010, at 18:18:27
>Huxley--if you feel better as a result of taking >them, why worry about any of this--maybe brain >chemistry is altered, but what is the >alternative? A lifeless life? I believe Dr. Bob >has created a wonderful site and yes, please do >not believe all that you read. Brain chemistry >is complex and remains a mystery to the most >astute. I hope that you find a trusted therapist >and a med that works for you:)
I totally agree. If the medication works for you and you feel fine w. no problems, then by all means take the med if you feel like it.
The problem is that, for a lot of people, the meds don't really do much of anything. Perhaps they help depression or anxiety a wee bit, but with too many side effects.
Linkadge
Posted by olivia12 on September 20, 2010, at 19:23:29
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged? » olivia12, posted by linkadge on September 19, 2010, at 19:26:13
> I totally agree. If the medication works for you and you feel fine w. no problems, then by all means take the med if you feel like it.
>
> The problem is that, for a lot of people, the meds don't really do much of anything. Perhaps they help depression or anxiety a wee bit, but with too many side effects.
>
> Linkadge
I thought about what you said, Link--in fact, it
was kind of in my head a lot today. After finishing a pretty intense book about manic-depression over the weekend, I found myself in awe and probably a little more emphathetic re: mental health. It was a great read, btw..."Manic. A Memoir" by Terri Cheney. And so, while the meds may not offer a solution to faulty wiring, they may, at least take the edge of the symptoms and allow one to live with some sort of "normalcy". I dunno. I actually do believe that brain chemistry is altered--maybe permanently--I haven't been off any antidepressant since starting the 1st one way back and so my vantage point is already skewed. I do know that my life is much more meaningful when I am taking something that works with my chemistry. Thanks:)
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 3:51:42
In reply to Have our brains been permanently damaged?, posted by Huxley on September 16, 2010, at 18:34:23
Friends,
If anyone tells you that taking psychotropic drugs could not be dangerous, I am asking that you view the following video that goes to the aspects of the post by the innitiator of this thread.
Lou
To view this video;
A. Bring up google
B. Type in:
[Psychotropic Drugs: The Hidden, Dr. Gary Kohls]
you will see a picture of Dr. Kohls and it was posted on Feb 12, 2009 and is 6 min
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 4:20:20
In reply to Lou's request-cychibraindmg?, posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 3:51:42
Friends,
If anyone tells you that psychotropic drugs will not alter your mind, I am requesting that you view the following video.
To see this video:
A. Bring uup google
B. Type in:
[Hannity's America with Doug Kennedy on Antidepressants]
You will see a picture of Hannity and the time is 6 min posted on Dec 17, 2007
Posted by olivia12 on September 21, 2010, at 19:39:31
In reply to Lou's request-ihnduhustreeohvdhe, posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 4:20:20
Yes, they most likely do alter the mind--perhaps forever. However, I think the most important thing remains--do they make you feel better and function in a more normal capacity? I still don't get these references to bizarre videos though?
Posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2010, at 21:25:20
In reply to Lou's request-ihnduhustreeohvdhe, posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 4:20:20
Lou very nice song that Elvis sang but could you
A explain what it has to do with Maximes meds and the rude way she was treatedB Do you know Crazy meds
C have you ever taken any of these meds Thanks so kindly Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2010, at 21:27:56
In reply to Re: Lou's request-ihnduhustreeohvdhe, posted by olivia12 on September 21, 2010, at 19:39:31
Wrong thread but I don't visit babble to view videos I come to learn all the things I don't know that have to with meds. I personally don't find the videos entertaining and for a newcomer they might decide to leave. What do you feel? Phillipa
Posted by former poster on September 22, 2010, at 0:02:57
In reply to Have our brains been permanently damaged?, posted by Huxley on September 16, 2010, at 18:34:23
How do we know when a brain is damaged? According to my Psychiatrist, depression left untreated can be very damaging to the brain. I respond well to SSRI's. So I'm left with the choice, which is the worst of the 2? SSRI damage, or damage from the stress of depression?
It may be that some people are damaged, some not. Don't believe everything you are told.
Example: Can brain damage be measured?
Alcohol is a major brain damager, so I have been told all my life. I have seen my wife drink enough beer over the years to fill an Olympic-sized swimming pool. She stopped "cold turkey". I don't see any sign of brain damage. I think she is getting smarter. She can do a Sudoku puzzle faster than anyone I know. From my observations, Alcohol is good for your brain, or at least for her brain. Her social skills, math and problem solving skills are superb. She can do 5 times more work than I can. I don't know what to believe.
Posted by SLS on September 22, 2010, at 4:58:45
In reply to Re: Have our brains been permanently damaged? » Huxley, posted by former poster on September 22, 2010, at 0:02:57
I guess it depends on how you define the word "damage". Obviously, exposure to antidepressants produce changes in the way the brain functions. That's what you want. However, sometimes certain unwanted effects linger or are irreversible. SSRI poop-out might be an example of this. Exposure to an antidepressant can produce treatment resistance to that antidepressant, necessitating a change in therapies. What else is going on there that we don't know about?
Your point describing the negative changes that occur in the brain if the illness is left untreated is valid and can be observed on brain scans. It is important to treat the illness as early as is deemed clinically indicated.
So, what to do?
Pray for better treatments.
Perhaps use the ones that are currently available to effect a positive clinical response and improve one's quality of life rather than to languish for years on end laying in bed staring at the ceiling.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 22, 2010, at 8:16:24
In reply to Lou's request-ihnduhustreeohvdhe, posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2010, at 4:20:20
Friends,
If you are considerng being a discussant in this thread or parallel threads, I am requestying that you read the following.
Lou
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/false-dilemma.html
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