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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 19:13:17
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me? » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 19:05:56
> Hi Brian,
>
> Your situation at home does sound unhealthy, definitely. The wrong environment can make things so much worse.
>
> >Even with my avid and obsessional research abilities, I have not found a similar case.
>
> I'm sure many people feel the same way, I know I used to. Despite labels such as bipolar, psych problems are often very unique. If you compare yourself with other people, you will find that some of your problems are similar but others are very different.
>
> >I was a normal person. A college graduate, and a corporate worker, and a school teacher for years.
>
> I was never quite normal :) Still, I'm more normal now than I've ever been in the past. I've had good times and bad times, but no very good times! Mainly just OK times recently. How old are you by the way? Just curious.
>
> If your parents suffer from psych problems, you may have inherited genes which predispose you to mental health problems. Still, the right environment will help you. The place in the mountains looks beautiful. I hope you meet some friends there.
>
> I don't think you'll be able to assess the benefits of any medication whilst withdrawing from diazepam. In the future, it may be that you will find a medication which really helps you. On the other hand, it could be that you feel better on no medication at all. It's impossible to say right now. The benzos are clearly a problem though. Even if you're not able to stop them completely, you may find stability on a low maintenance dose. There are millions of people out there on 2mg diazepam at night, or similar. Other people stop completely. It's a difficult journey. Why does life have to be so hard sometimes?
>
> Ed
>
>Ed, i took the 20mgs diazepam about 2 hours ago, and doesn't seem to fair well with my body. Feels like bad withdrawal. Anxiety in privates area, flushing through legs, physically ill.
Perhaps this is why after i went to detox in the summer, and came out, and tried to go back librium, many people on a benzo board said i was benzo sensitive, and was having a psychotic/toxic reaction to them, and had to withdraw fast.
Perhaps this is true.
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 19:14:22
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 19:02:38
>Personally, i'd just like some more ect, and get off benzos, and drugs in general.
The thing which concerns me about Xanax is that you returned to it at a very high dose. You do not want to increase your dependence. This is why I think that although high doses of diazepam may be necessary for a short while, to cover the withdrawal symptoms from Xanax, you should soon be able to reduce to between 20mg and 30mg per day. After this point, further reductions will need to be gradual.
About the ECT, perhaps you should come to the UK as a Health/NHS tourist :)
Just kidding. It does happen though, although I doubt many people come here wanting ECT. I bet the machines they use are pretty old.
Ed
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 19:16:46
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me? » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 19:05:56
PS- the ever i felt in my life as i mentioned, was after a huge detox i did in the middle east 2 years ago or so, and was just done with meds, and it felt great. If i had just not believed that the racing thoughts 5 days later meant i was bipolar (not thinking that a SUPER detox might induce that), then i have never began the whole drug wheel/cycle and be where i am now.
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 19:18:13
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 19:13:17
Xanax and Valium seem to be quite different in some ways, despite their similarities. This is why a cross taper is recommended.
Do you have any Xanax left? If so, you could take 1mg of Xanax + 10mg diazepam for your next dose.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 19:32:39
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 19:18:13
> Xanax and Valium seem to be quite different in some ways, despite their similarities. This is why a cross taper is recommended.
>
> Do you have any Xanax left? If so, you could take 1mg of Xanax + 10mg diazepam for your next dose.No, doc made me turn in xanax before giving me the valium script. I even asked, don't we want to do a cross taper? Nope, just get started.
Ed, i think i'm toxic to benzos, and my brain can't handle or accept them anymore. It seemed to work a bit after ECT, although i started at only 3 mgs xanax.
Even the past few days, i had been very physically i'll, i thought perhaps it was provigil.What's your opinion on the trileptal?
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 19:38:11
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 19:32:39
god, it just feels like i'm putting myself back in the midst of serious physical WD after 6 months of being off, and just making myself sick.
If i felt relaxed, and sedated, perhaps a little depressed/irritable, then it'd be a different story, but i get none of that.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 19:59:35
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 19:32:39
>Ed, i think i'm toxic to benzos, and my brain can't handle or accept them anymore.
It's one of those situations where it's difficult to know what's going on. Your current symptoms could be withdrawal symptoms from Xanax, rather than representing a bad reaction to diazepam.
When do you next see your doc? I think he might be more receptive to the idea of a cross taper when he finds out how bad you're feeling. I think it was unwise of him to take all of your Xanax away.
I think that your reaction to Trileptal is unusual. I know you feel good in the morning but it seems to be destabilising for you.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:02:59
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 19:38:11
And to think last go round, at 17mgs, i couldn't leave the house cause i was too confused to make it back. Odd behavior. Severe weight loss, muscle deterioration. Could barely remember my roommates name. Too anxious or having problems swallowing my food, felt like i was on acid and speed, and floating at the same time, i have much to look forward to this go round, huh?
So many great memories from the past year that replay in my head all day.
I wonder how much of that was MS?
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:08:44
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 19:59:35
> >Ed, i think i'm toxic to benzos, and my brain can't handle or accept them anymore.
>
> It's one of those situations where it's difficult to know what's going on. Your current symptoms could be withdrawal symptoms from Xanax, rather than representing a bad reaction to diazepam.
>
> When do you next see your doc? I think he might be more receptive to the idea of a cross taper when he finds out how bad you're feeling. I think it was unwise of him to take all of your Xanax away.
>
> I think that your reaction to Trileptal is unusual. I know you feel good in the morning but it seems to be destabilising for you.
>
>What if i try 3 doses of trileptal, and what if it aids the withdrawal like it has before? Sure, it might make me hypmanic, depressed, see things funny in the environment, and perhaps some normalcy at night, but it may aid in WD.
I think if i go to the farm soon, that it will only be lyrica and valium, as i would NOT like to do any physical farm work on trileptal lol.
I tried the benzo wd by itself, and that was a joke. Although i do have lyrica on board now.
I saw doc today, i don't think he's keen or savy to a crossover. We'll just deal with it
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2010, at 20:12:19
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:08:44
Oh Brian I can't believe you doc wouldn't do a crossover for you. I must look up that MS med. Could it be an exacerbation of MS also? Phillipa
Posted by morganator on April 2, 2010, at 20:27:27
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:02:59
> And to think last go round, at 17mgs, i couldn't leave the house cause i was too confused to make it back. Odd behavior. Severe weight loss, muscle deterioration. Could barely remember my roommates name. Too anxious or having problems swallowing my food, felt like i was on acid and speed, and floating at the same time, i have much to look forward to this go round, huh?
> So many great memories from the past year that replay in my head all day.
>
>
> I wonder how much of that was MS?Sounds like many of your issues may be MS. Maybe your brain simply is not responding well to medications in part because of MS.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 20:27:47
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:08:44
> What if i try 3 doses of trileptal, and what if it aids the withdrawal like it has before?
I think it's worth a try Brian. It might help. It sounds like unaided withdrawal would be virtually impossible. I think you need to be on Trileptal before you start the withdrawal, rather than starting back on Trileptal part way through the withdrawal.
>I would NOT like to do any physical farm work on trileptal
Yeah, stay away from the heavy machinery :)
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:29:21
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me? » qbsbrown, posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2010, at 20:12:19
> Oh Brian I can't believe you doc wouldn't do a crossover for you. I must look up that MS med. Could it be an exacerbation of MS also? Phillipa
For some odd reason, i've never met or found a dr in to a crossover. Most Drs are benzo ignorant.
I'm sure much could be MS exacerbations.
Last summer when i was down to 17mgs of valium, and couldn't leave the house, i had to crack, and went back up to 60mgs, and it felt good, relaxed, made me wanna drink etc, only to have the dr put me on 200mgs librium.
I assume this 60mgs valium, i'm not going to get any of that relaxation, sedation, craving to drink alcohol (not a bad thing:), probably just physically ill with withdrawal symptoms.
Many of the MS injections have a great affinity to induce depression, and to also induce flu like symptoms etc, not to mention the hundreds of symptoms caused by MS alone. My neurologist said that he almost requires his MS patients to be on an antidepressant due to the depression induced from the injections. In my case, he thought an antipsychotic, or even mentioned lyrica for racingh thoughts.
I almost laughed and yelled at him when he told me that benzo wd symptoms should be gone after 3 weeks, after a cold turkey? are you joking?
My neuro briefly spoke with my shrink, and they decided to put me on copaxone, which is a daily injection, as opposed to a weekly one, because it has the lowest possibility of causing psychiatric issues
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:37:52
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 20:27:47
> > What if i try 3 doses of trileptal, and what if it aids the withdrawal like it has before?
>
> I think it's worth a try Brian. It might help. It sounds like unaided withdrawal would be virtually impossible. I think you need to be on Trileptal before you start the withdrawal, rather than starting back on Trileptal part way through the withdrawal.
>
> >I would NOT like to do any physical farm work on trileptal
>
> Yeah, stay away from the heavy machinery :)
>
>LOL. Well yes, i was tapering well when i had trileptal on board last year. but then i dropped it, and went solo. When i tried to add it back, just hearing my mother say a word, and i wanting to yell and scream at her.
This is the same as in china 3-4 years back, during my taper, my pdoc added celexa, and it made irritability incredible, just heaing my girlfriend at the time and my brother in law speak, made me wanna yell and scream lol
But Ed, I meant this. In the past, when i was on a pretty high dose of lyrica, i would totally love to go help my mother with yard work etc, same as when i was at my friends place in the san juan islands, offering to do physical manual labor etc. Perhaps it's that lyrica makes me happy and semi euphoric.
So i would need that if i go to the mountains to work on the organic farm.
BUT, if i were on trileptal, i think i might be worthless for farm work LOL.
You guys are great! Thanks so much for the help!
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:39:59
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by morganator on April 2, 2010, at 20:27:27
> > And to think last go round, at 17mgs, i couldn't leave the house cause i was too confused to make it back. Odd behavior. Severe weight loss, muscle deterioration. Could barely remember my roommates name. Too anxious or having problems swallowing my food, felt like i was on acid and speed, and floating at the same time, i have much to look forward to this go round, huh?
> > So many great memories from the past year that replay in my head all day.
> >
> >
> > I wonder how much of that was MS?
>
> Sounds like many of your issues may be MS. Maybe your brain simply is not responding well to medications in part because of MS.
>
>I agree Morganator. All of the sudden, out of no where, after taking drugs perfectly fine for years, my brain can now not tolerate any. Although ECT helped a LITTLE in allowing my brain to handle a drug, or maybe not.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:53:39
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:39:59
It was just last winter when i was on a high dose of trileptal. Hypomanic til noon, then in bed depressed til 6pm, then a feeling of normalcy til bed.
I was taking provigil at the time.I remember my anxiety being hight at the time, i was only taking ativan 3mgs at bed time, i'm sure i was having many racing though issues due to interdose wd.
We went to 3mgs of klonopin. I remembered how irritable and depressed it made me, and it was that drug where my psychiatric history began. Asked to cross over to valium 30mgs, and began my taper from there,
The rest is history.
I think my brain HATES DRUGS!
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 21:04:22
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 2, 2010, at 19:14:22
> >Personally, i'd just like some more ect, and get off benzos, and drugs in general.
>
> The thing which concerns me about Xanax is that you returned to it at a very high dose. You do not want to increase your dependence. This is why I think that although high doses of diazepam may be necessary for a short while, to cover the withdrawal symptoms from Xanax, you should soon be able to reduce to between 20mg and 30mg per day. After this point, further reductions will need to be gradual.
>
> About the ECT, perhaps you should come to the UK as a Health/NHS tourist :)
>
> Just kidding. It does happen though, although I doubt many people come here wanting ECT. I bet the machines they use are pretty old.
>
> EdI'd love to come as a health/nhs tourist for ECT:)
That's not a true possibility, is it?
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 3, 2010, at 10:40:00
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 21:04:22
> I'd love to come as a health/nhs tourist for ECT:)
>
> That's not a true possibility, is it?
>
> BrianIf you were detained in a psych ward under the Mental Health Act, you would receive free treatment. This is not something that I would recommend!
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 3, 2010, at 10:42:40
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 20:37:52
Hi Brian,
So if you take Lyrica and Trileptal in combination, do you still get depressed in the afternoon?
Posted by qbsbrown on April 3, 2010, at 17:58:24
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 3, 2010, at 10:42:40
> Hi Brian,
>
> So if you take Lyrica and Trileptal in combination, do you still get depressed in the afternoon?
>
>
>
I think if I take trileptal, lyrica, diazepam, all 3x a day, the depression is more avoided greatly.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 3, 2010, at 18:03:47
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 3, 2010, at 10:42:40
I think the diazepam might finally be holding the interdose wd. Waking up with horrific intrusive memories, thoughts, conversations, words, depression, remembering a "normal" "sane", and seeing/hearing people live normal lives still plague me, and don't know how or if that would ever go away.
I would love more ECT, don't know how to get it.
I am trying to see an integrative karma shrink, as mine seems pretty worthless.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 3, 2010, at 18:10:26
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 3, 2010, at 18:03:47
Sometimes i wonder if a bunch of zyprexa would serve me, but then i think that the idea is to get off drugs. It just seemed that with my cold turkey, i threw some serious ciructry off in my brain, only seeing the past, and future conversations, not being able to see or experience the present moments, things repeating in my head over and over, hear me texting people, hearing what people had already texted me, non stop conversations with my doctors in my head, explaining what i was experiencing, hence ECT seeming to be my best option to "reset" that faulty circuitry that i screwed up. things have improved, but i still think it could get better.
ED, in this economy, how do i raise 3,000 dollars for more ECT?
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 3, 2010, at 18:20:59
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 3, 2010, at 18:10:26
hearing what i'm going to say before i say it, and have that repeating in my head. hear me answering questions before people even ask me question, hearing me tell stories over and over of when i was sane. I could go on for HOURS about the experiences.
Only hearing my own voice, the obvious phenomenea of my own voice with commentary, much of the time about suicide and death, and that i'm not supposed to be here. That I am in hell and that i don't know it and i am supposed to leave. that things like my family, friends, beautiful nature, music etc, were all just things and illusions that were trying to keep me alive and trapped in hell. there was a time i thought i was possessed by the devil, and another time i was incarnated as God, as i was trying to figure out who/what this voice was that i could hear.
waking up, and the first thing i would hear would be, it's time to die etc, and i try to counter it, not it's not etcECT helped, but don't know how to get it. Things have improved greatly with all of this. Probably ECT and going back on the benzo. Ultimately, I'd like more ect, and off all drugs i think is my best route.
Regards,
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 3, 2010, at 18:40:48
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on April 3, 2010, at 18:20:59
Brian,
What is your experience of antipsychotics such as Zyprexa?
In my opinion, you should keep taking Trileptal and Lyrica (up to 600mg/day) until you've tapered off diazepam, which could obviously take a while.
At the moment, you're having so many problems with your meds that it's impossible to know what's causing what. Once you're off diazepam, you could taper off Lyrica and Trileptal too, in order to establish a baseline. You can then decide with your doctors help whether or not you need to go back on medication (although hopefully not benzos, since they seem to be very problematic for you).
Posted by qbsbrown on April 3, 2010, at 19:00:38
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 3, 2010, at 18:40:48
> Brian,
>
> What is your experience of antipsychotics such as Zyprexa?
>
> In my opinion, you should keep taking Trileptal and Lyrica (up to 600mg/day) until you've tapered off diazepam, which could obviously take a while.
>
> At the moment, you're having so many problems with your meds that it's impossible to know what's causing what. Once you're off diazepam, you could taper off Lyrica and Trileptal too, in order to establish a baseline. You can then decide with your doctors help whether or not you need to go back on medication (although hopefully not benzos, since they seem to be very problematic for you).Ed, today is first day to 3 doses of trileptal, 300 3x. Depression a little more pronounced, but physiical sickness still pretty bad, naseaua/headache. As i spent last night, and the day today with a friend, i felt much better, and thought much less about my mental health as i do when i am home with parents, as i have so many horrible memories at their home from medications etc, and how they are.
In the past, i used to even take up to 30mgs of zyprexa, would pop it like candy, at times didn't mind it, seemed to make me sane, although i was 40lbs overweight. i would even need that much to slow me down to drive enough, although it may even induce depression. I have serious adverse effects to all drugs obviously.
I tried some antipsychotics before ECT, zyprexa, geodon, and even clozaril, all made everything i was experiencing the same, only with a bigger hint of depression to it.
I have not tried zyprexa post ECT.
I still think that the trileptal and lyrica can help me get off the diazepam quicker, even though i have pretty adverse effects to trileptal, and makes me sick, but i seem to tolerate lyrica just fine, one of the few if only drugs i've never had bad reactions to, and don't mind. No ups or downs, some relaxation etc.
Thanks Ed in believing that benzos are the drug of problem, and causing me great illness, which i probably agree.
If I decide to go to the mountains of california to work on on a farm for a while, and taper, and get away from people, i believe that i would have to drop the trileptal, as it makes me too physically ill to do physical work. I would have to ride lyrica and diazepam solo.
a) do you think that trileptal is even a good idea for me now? do you believe i should continue it? i THINK it can help me taper quicker, but there are my obvious adverse effects, and seeming a bad physical reaction to it.
b) today i am at 300mgs of lyrica, how quickly do i increase it to 600mgs? my dr agreed to put me at 600, but obviously offered me no direction.
kind regards,
Brian
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