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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 13:01:31
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 10:47:09
> Ed, I have having thoughts of Lyrica. I once had a doc put me up to 900mgs of it, i was able to drive long distances alone on it, did fun things like golfing etc. Giving that one a thought, what do you think? Seems all of the other anticonvulsants are so harsh for me.
Lyrica is known to be effective for generalised anxiety in some cases, at least in the short term. It's not an established treatment for mood disorders though. Non-serious side effects are very common eg. sedation and dizziness. Serious side effects are uncommon so I guess it might be worth a try. Difficult to say. What do you think?
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 15:25:29
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me? » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 13:01:31
Yeah, I think it's worth a shot, since nothing else is helping or working. Although it's heir apparent, gabapentin did nothing for me, I would hope that lyrica might act somewhat similar to what it had done for me previously. I bipolar doc here had had a few patients that were soley taking it and doing ok.
Seeing as having no clue what i have now, perhaps schizo/psychosis induce from benzo cold turkey, maybe it can help.
Also seeing as I'm already getting interdose wd from xanax 3 times a day, it seems that it's time for good ole diazepam. Hope it doesn't make me as depressed and irritable as usual, and i hope lyrica may help with that.
I once did decent on lyrica plus a stimulant, but it seems like a stimulant would be a no go during benzo wd huh? I do have provigil.
Last year, was doing a slow painful wd from diazepam, then cracked and went back on, depressed that i lost 5 months of tapering, i opted for detox, came out crazy, tried to go back on, and was still in wd, and it seemed as if i was having "benzo sensitivity", a psychotic toxic reaction to the librium.
I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis around xmas, and i don't know how much that is playing into it.
All that i know is that i could not be more crazy and sick:( Oh how i miss those days of sanity.
I sure wish that the trileptal did not make me hypomanic, which i like, then hit a huge snag of depression, and then some semi normalcy. But my chemical sensitivity seems even too high for that. All though the other night as the horrible conversations ran rampant, it helped seem to slow them.
Thanks ed
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 15:54:22
In reply to thanks ed, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 15:25:29
>i opted for detox, came out crazy, tried to go back on, and was still in wd, and it seemed as if i was having "benzo sensitivity", a psychotic toxic reaction to the librium.
If by detox you mean abrupt withdrawal as an inpatient, detox seems like a good way of making people a lot more sick.
You might need quite a bit of Valium initially to replace the Xanax but please try to reduce it down to a 'normal' dose as soon as possible ie. less than 30mg/day. Very high doses seem to mess people up.
I hear that Lyrica tends to 'poop out' a lot. Seems to be a particular problem.
I take it that you've tried lithium and the atypical antipsychotics?
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 16:39:36
In reply to Re: thanks ed » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 15:54:22
> >i opted for detox, came out crazy, tried to go back on, and was still in wd, and it seemed as if i was having "benzo sensitivity", a psychotic toxic reaction to the librium.
>
> If by detox you mean abrupt withdrawal as an inpatient, detox seems like a good way of making people a lot more sick.
>
> You might need quite a bit of Valium initially to replace the Xanax but please try to reduce it down to a 'normal' dose as soon as possible ie. less than 30mg/day. Very high doses seem to mess people up.
>
> I hear that Lyrica tends to 'poop out' a lot. Seems to be a particular problem.
>
> I take it that you've tried lithium and the atypical antipsychotics?
>Yeah, I'm 4 months removed from a cold turkey, and just barely re-introduced the xanax, did some ect, tried neurontin, some of the antipsychotics, even clozaril/clozapine.
Don't know why i can take some trileptal in the morn, and i'm social, looking for jobs and things to do etc, then get depressed. Then at night, as i am trying to play a game, and conversations are running rampant, i take a small dose of trileptal, and it really seemed to slow down and allow me to concentrate, although i wake up with the same conversations, debates, arguments, suicidal talk etc.
I'm really at a wits end and loss here as what to do. So are my docs, as I badger mine a few times a day lolRegards,
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 16:45:43
In reply to Re: thanks ed, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 16:39:36
I wonder that if in my state, if lyrica could give me back the false sense of well being as it once had, as i sure need one lol.
Drug combinations used to work for me, but my sensitivity just seems out of control right now. I don't know if MS has anything to do with it.
I'm assuming you are of the opinion Ed that going back on valium is a better idea that xanax xr, correct?
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 16:56:24
In reply to Re: thanks ed, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 16:45:43
>I'm assuming you are of the opinion Ed that going back on valium is a better idea that xanax xr, correct?
It sounds like Xanax and Valium are both problematic medications for you, but in different ways. Which ever benzo you choose to take, I think you need to find the lowest dose which prevents withdrawal symptoms. Have you tried other benzodiazepines such as lorazepam (Ativan)?
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 17:06:50
In reply to Re: thanks ed » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 16:56:24
> >I'm assuming you are of the opinion Ed that going back on valium is a better idea that xanax xr, correct?
>
> It sounds like Xanax and Valium are both problematic medications for you, but in different ways. Which ever benzo you choose to take, I think you need to find the lowest dose which prevents withdrawal symptoms. Have you tried other benzodiazepines such as lorazepam (Ativan)?
>
>
>
>
I was on ativan for a while. It really seemed to lose it's effectiveness, almost like a sugar pill, i think i was at 3mgs at the time for sleep, and would have to take much more to feel effect, so we the switched to klonopin 3mgs, then i remember that klonopin made me VERY depressed and irritable, so then finally made the switch to valium, and began a taper from 30mgs, until i became housebound and psychotic.
I had then saw an addiction psychiatrist, who put me on librium, because it didn't really have much of a self-reinforcing action.
Once again, it made me quite irritable and depressed, and that is when i opted for detox.The 2mgs of xanax i take right now, 3 times a day, i don't really feel depression from it, irritability, and/or sedation. I just know that i feel crazy, and physically ill.
The XR version is TOO much, and my dr is willing to go back to diazepam, as it's longer acting, and easier to come off of. Diazepam in the past yes, had made me quite irritable and depressed as well.
We have not discussed ativan, and I'm not against it. Pretty short half-life isn't it? And tough to break up?My brain has been through the frier i tell ya, and hates me, and doesn't really want to accept much of anything right now.
I'd love to hear your suggestions as far as the benzo Ed. I really respect what you have to say.
Regards,
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 17:32:41
In reply to Re: thanks ed, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 17:06:50
Also, seeing as i'm at a much worse starting point this go round, wouldn't this withdrawal be much worse?
Given last time, when i got down to 17mgs of valium, i was housebound, and began crazy behavior, trying to add depakote, or tegretol etc, basically was giving me nervous breakdowns,and i couldn't tolerate it.
So i have no clue as for what to do for any sort of sanity here.
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 17:34:12
In reply to Re: thanks ed, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 17:06:50
> Diazepam in the past yes, had made me quite irritable and depressed as well.
> We have not discussed ativan, and I'm not against it. Pretty short half-life isn't it? And tough to break up?Lorazepam is difficult to come off, yes.
Have you tried taking the Xanax in more than three divided doses eg. 1mg six times per day?
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 17:41:27
In reply to Re: thanks ed » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 17:34:12
> > Diazepam in the past yes, had made me quite irritable and depressed as well.
> > We have not discussed ativan, and I'm not against it. Pretty short half-life isn't it? And tough to break up?
>
> Lorazepam is difficult to come off, yes.
>
> Have you tried taking the Xanax in more than three divided doses eg. 1mg six times per day?
>No, I've only been taking 2mgs 3x a day.
Would you recommend i try that before venturing back over to valium?
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 17:53:10
In reply to Re: thanks ed, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 17:41:27
>Would you recommend i try that before venturing back over to valium?
Yes, it might help even things out. There's nothing to lose, it certainly won't do any harm.
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 18:00:04
In reply to Re: thanks ed, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 17:41:27
It's pretty sad when your mental health history comes down to benzos.
On benzos in 05, came off abruptly, found out about benzo wd, and went on valium, and moved to china. During my valium wd, i was diagnosed ocd, as many in wd do. The AD may have saved my job, but made me very irritable and depressed person. So i have racing thoughts from the benzo wd, and irritability and depression from ssris, so of course DXed bipolar. Run through the gamet of over 30 meds ugh.
Now i am much worse off, and i don't know if any can help me.
While teaching in the middle east a while back, i was on tons of benzos, stimulants, booze, mood stabilizer, ambien, occasional AD, occasion antipsychotic, ended up hospitalized obviously.
The dr there cold turkeyed me from stimulants, ambien, and wanted me off high dose valium in one week. I was left on an AD, some depakote, and some zyprexa. it was a crazy 5 days to say the least, and the flight home, but when i was home, i was totally sane, and could function like a normal person. Only 5 days later, i was having bad racing thoughts, which i thought indicated bipolarity for sure, not thinking it could be part of withdrawal, and began the medication wheel again, and here i am.
Crappy story, and sorry for having to share.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 18:01:52
In reply to Re: thanks ed » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 17:53:10
> >Would you recommend i try that before venturing back over to valium?
>
> Yes, it might help even things out. There's nothing to lose, it certainly won't do any harm.
>
>But don't you think that i want the long action from valium, and isn't my xanax wd gonna be bad, and perhaps tolerance getting higher and higher?
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 18:13:09
In reply to Re: thanks ed » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 17:53:10
> >Would you recommend i try that before venturing back over to valium?
>
> Yes, it might help even things out. There's nothing to lose, it certainly won't do any harm.
>
>
And yes Ed, it does even feel like after i take my 2mg doses, that it may perhaps give me anxiety, and make me kinda physically ill.Before i jumped off cold turkey from librium, it seemed to the benzo forum people, that i have/had a bad benzo sensitivity/reaction etc.
I don't know. Just wish there was any/some relief.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 18:31:40
In reply to Re: thanks ed » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 17:53:10
> >Would you recommend i try that before venturing back over to valium?
>
> Yes, it might help even things out. There's nothing to lose, it certainly won't do any harm.
>
>The benzos just make my head feel like WWIII, with bad physical SEs, and no calm. It's quite brutal.
I wonder if my brain can tolerate/accept a benzo anymore.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 19:19:24
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me? » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 13:01:31
> > Ed, I have having thoughts of Lyrica. I once had a doc put me up to 900mgs of it, i was able to drive long distances alone on it, did fun things like golfing etc. Giving that one a thought, what do you think? Seems all of the other anticonvulsants are so harsh for me.
>
> Lyrica is known to be effective for generalised anxiety in some cases, at least in the short term. It's not an established treatment for mood disorders though. Non-serious side effects are very common eg. sedation and dizziness. Serious side effects are uncommon so I guess it might be worth a try. Difficult to say. What do you think?
>
>Interesting that i had some success on lyrica in the past. Maybe i was just stoned and high at 900mgs. But driving long distances for the first time in a long time, able to stay in hotel rooms just fine. I believe that i needed a stimulant added for concentration, but that would obviously be a no go with the benzos now.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 20:04:39
In reply to Re: thanks ed » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 29, 2010, at 17:53:10
> >Would you recommend i try that before venturing back over to valium?
>
> Yes, it might help even things out. There's nothing to lose, it certainly won't do any harm.
>
>Well Ed, after 2 weeks of xanax, it seems as if my 2nd 2mg dose today is finally inducing a bit of sedation and depression. Oh sweet benzos, how i love thee. I doubt provogil would be of benefit with this, would it?
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 30, 2010, at 12:51:32
In reply to Re: Trileptal, why do you do this to me?, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 19:19:24
So here's the problem. If i take trileptal, i'll get more done in the first few hours of the day, then i would the entire day without.
BUT, then comes the fun depression part of the trileptal, which maybe 3 doses might fix?
BUT, during that depression phase, I'd like to take provigil, which seems to help.
BUT, I'm in the midst of a benzo problem, wihdrawal, and a bad physical reaction to them, and I would imagine that adding provigil, a central nervous system stimulant, to a benzo, CNS depressant, might mess me up. And mind you I have a CNS disease, multiple sclerosis.
Thank you all so much for this tribulating time.
I get no help from drs. My neurologist is like, go see your shrink, it's not related to MS, my shrink is like, i think this is psychosis secondary to MS, and these drugs aren't helping.
Oh well what do you do? I do know 2 times in the past, trileptal had helped me come off benzos much quicker. This past march, i tried to add during my taper, and it gave me such severe irritability, that just hearing people speak made me want to scream.
So yes, I feel very physically ill and sick and crazy, and would like off benzos.
Perhaps i just use the trileptal, and the lyrica, and just DEAL with it. I don't know how to avoid the seeming toxic/bad reaction to the benzos right now though.
Regards,
Brian
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 30, 2010, at 16:59:12
In reply to my terrible history, posted by qbsbrown on March 29, 2010, at 18:00:04
If you're feeling some sedation for 2mg Xanax tid, perhaps you can reduce a little? 6mg per day is certainly a lot since Xanax is very potent.
Xanax is a very difficult drug to taper so Valium is often substituted.
In order to prevent a 'shock to the system' I still think that it would be a good idea to gradually increase the Valium at the same time as gradually decreasing the Xanax. Once you have stopped Xanax, you can then start to reduce the Valium.
Posted by qbsbrown on March 30, 2010, at 17:30:44
In reply to Re: my terrible history » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 30, 2010, at 16:59:12
> If you're feeling some sedation for 2mg Xanax tid, perhaps you can reduce a little? 6mg per day is certainly a lot since Xanax is very potent.
>
> Xanax is a very difficult drug to taper so Valium is often substituted.
>
> In order to prevent a 'shock to the system' I still think that it would be a good idea to gradually increase the Valium at the same time as gradually decreasing the Xanax. Once you have stopped Xanax, you can then start to reduce the Valium.
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks Ed. Seemed like the slight sedation from one of the 2mg doses was short lived, lol. The doses still make me feel quite physically ill, and wonder if i am having benzo sensitivity/toxicity. I believe my Dr is apt to switch to valium soon, although the valium will likely make me much more depressed and irritable than xanax. And memories of my taper from 30mgs last year, getting down to 17mgs, and housebound, psychotic, muscle deterioration and much much more. I wonder how much MS was playing in to that. So fears, and memories of tapering last year is frightening to say the least.
Trileptal has helped me taper in the past. I also have lyrica if wanted, to perhaps help with WD ad GAD, not sure.
Regards,Brian
Posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2010, at 19:28:15
In reply to Re: my terrible history, posted by qbsbrown on March 30, 2010, at 17:30:44
Brian so sorry about the MS you must be extremly upset. I'm sure you've already googled meds and possible side effects with MS? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2010, at 19:36:52
In reply to Re: my terrible history » qbsbrown, posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2010, at 19:28:15
Brian found this hope the link works seems valium and benzos are used a lot with MS. Seems like a good website for you to search. Love Phillipa
Multiple Sclerosis Drug Treatments
Posted by qbsbrown on March 30, 2010, at 22:31:59
In reply to Re: my terrible history » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2010, at 19:36:52
> Brian found this hope the link works seems valium and benzos are used a lot with MS. Seems like a good website for you to search. Love Phillipa
>
> Multiple Sclerosis Drug TreatmentsYeah, the irony of benzos being used a lot for MS. Perhaps as I was coming off, much or most of my symptoms were MS and not WD. I had gotten down to 17mgs valium, and my body was a wreck, i couldn't leave the house, psychosis, and other untellable things.
That's why now, on xanax, i think about crossing over to valium again, and could not even fathom a taper from there.
I wonder if benzos might have to be a long term thing with MS.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 30, 2010, at 22:43:26
In reply to Re: my terrible history » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 30, 2010, at 16:59:12
> If you're feeling some sedation for 2mg Xanax tid, perhaps you can reduce a little? 6mg per day is certainly a lot since Xanax is very potent.
>
> Xanax is a very difficult drug to taper so Valium is often substituted.
>
> In order to prevent a 'shock to the system' I still think that it would be a good idea to gradually increase the Valium at the same time as gradually decreasing the Xanax. Once you have stopped Xanax, you can then start to reduce the Valium.
>
>
>
>
>
>Well, I wonder if trileptal and/or lyrica could help at all.
The xanax xr version is probably going to be too expensive. I FEAR a valium withdrawal, as i was psychotic, housebound, lost weight, couldn't swallow, i felt like i was hight, on speed, on acid, anything under the gamet, you name it.
I don' know if this was some serious MS flaring up, or what was going on.
So yes, the xanax isn't great, and it does make me feel quite i'll i believe, and there is some interdose wd. Going over to valium, say 60mgs, and coming off that, after what i went through getting from 30mgs to 17mgs over months this past year, scares the bajesus out of me.
I am CLUELESS as what to do here.
I felt some decency with the trileptal today, but some serious naseaua and headache, which i thought was benzo related, but i think may have been the provigil
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on March 31, 2010, at 12:37:23
In reply to Ed, posted by qbsbrown on March 30, 2010, at 22:43:26
Just curious on thoughts here. After years of bipolar drugs, and numerous job failures, especially due to concentration/motivation issues, i was finally put on stimulants,and there were some benzos in there.
For the first time in my adult life, I became a productive employee. And the racing thoughts that had plagued me for so long, and giving me the bipolar dx, didn't seem to bother me as much. or maybe it's that on stimulants, your racing thoughts at least aren't unpleasurable ones lol.
But I think for me, some abuse problems might creep in, as i had some near overdoses. And counteracting stimulants with benzos, sure can wreck your CNS, and now finding out that I have MS, might not be the best thing.
I guess, if anything, provigil might be my safest be, agreed?
I used to take many bipolar drugs, zyprexa, trileptal,lyrica etc, and i still couldn't concentrate and be in the present moment, then added provigil, and boom, i was in the present moment like normal people.
Only problem for me now is my MS, and anything that effects my CNS, and given the wreckage of my CNS from my benzo wd and re-introduction of benzos, and now my inability to tolerate drugs, it even seems that the once golden provigil, is making me sick.
bummer.
Brian
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