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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 20:05:32
Hi,
I am new here. I have secondary adrenal insuffiency. Hypopituitarism. So I have to have HC. no doubt I need HC..
I can't take it. It makes me psychotic. It makes me thing thoughts that I never knew people could even think. My whole mind and brain changed. Everything looked different to me. It made my heart pound so hard. I was not taking too much at all. I only got up to 20 mgs. That's what you are supposed to take. Even 2.5 mgs. did that to me. IT did not matter how much I took. I decided to wean off of it, and now my adrenals are in really bad shape.
The thoughts are gone, It gave me such high anxiety that I could not function at all. Now I am suffering in a different way. Very weak, cannot wake up, etc. I'm getting worse by the day. Someone suggested that i was going through steroid psychosis. I still have severe apathy.
Now, I got a call from my cardiologist today saying to come in because there is an abnormality. This all started when I started taking the HC.
Now, I also take Klonopin. I'm wondering if the mixture of these two drugs could have caused this severe emotional and physical reaction.
I'm just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this. This stuff was really BAD on me. and I need it.
Thanks,
Mamie
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2009, at 21:16:04
In reply to hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 20:05:32
Oh Mamie so sorry. Did you see your doc yet? Is there another med you can take. What is the name of the condition. Cushings or Addisons? Or just adrenal fatigue. I'm not taking the last lightly. Phillipa
Posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 21:35:49
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2009, at 21:16:04
It's hypopituitarism.. It's like addison's but only coming from the pituitary. I just want to know why HC does this to me. I need it and can't take it.
Thanks so much for responding,
Mamie
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2009, at 21:42:14
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 21:35:49
I do know it can cause psychosis in some. What does your doc say? Phillipa
Posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 21:46:15
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2009, at 21:16:04
It's hypopituitarism.. It's like addison's but only coming from the pituitary. I just want to know why HC does this to me. I need it and can't take it.
Thanks so much for responding,
Mamie
Posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 21:51:53
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2009, at 21:42:14
I'm under a new doctor now, she only spent 15 minutes with me. She did say it can cause this but did not offer suggestions. I'm having alot of problems with doctors. There are other glucocorteroids out there, but if HC does this, I would thing the others would to. Such as methylprednisone or medrol.
thanks,
Mamie
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2009, at 21:52:38
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 21:46:15
The endocrine system is so complicated. Did you google your condition? Might be some good info you never know. I will a bit later. I'm familiar with Addison's my Mother had it. Phillipa what are your symtoms in other words how did you find out you had it?
Posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 22:06:53
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2009, at 21:52:38
I failed an ACTH stim test. ACTh is the hormone that sends the signal to the adreanl glands to produce cortisol. They call that seconday adrenal insuffiency. I have had it for a year. Primary is Addisons.. So I'm sure your Mother had to take HC. I know what I have, and know what I need. But I can't handle the psychosis from the HC. I thought it was a mixture of the Klonopin and HC but I don't know.
Thanks again,
Mamie
Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2009, at 0:18:44
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 22:06:53
Mamie I googled a lot of sites it was the 60's when my mother had it was when cortisone new and she was given too much. Did your's arise from a tumor, head trauma? Have you had an MRI? Seems to be supports also. Let me know. I seriously don't know what to tell you about the med. Sounds like so many causes. Your're seeing an endocrinologist right? Phillipa
Posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 0:37:54
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2009, at 0:18:44
> Mamie I googled a lot of sites it was the 60's when my mother had it was when cortisone new and she was given too much. Did your's arise from a tumor, head trauma? Have you had an MRI? Seems to be supports also. Let me know. I seriously don't know what to tell you about the med. Sounds like so many causes. Your're seeing an endocrinologist right? Phillipa
Hi phillipa,
No tumor, or head trauma. They say it can also come from long standing hypothyroidism. I really don't know how I got this. Yes I am seeing and endo. I have seen many.
I would be ok I think If i could take HC. I don't know what is causing this. I have never had any psychiatric problems. I can't find any concrete evidence that Klonopin and HC mixed together could be doing this. Thank you so much. I'm very scared. I'm just getting worse day by day and I have a little boy.
Mamie
Posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 0:38:12
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2009, at 0:18:44
> Mamie I googled a lot of sites it was the 60's when my mother had it was when cortisone new and she was given too much. Did your's arise from a tumor, head trauma? Have you had an MRI? Seems to be supports also. Let me know. I seriously don't know what to tell you about the med. Sounds like so many causes. Your're seeing an endocrinologist right? Phillipa
Hi phillipa,
No tumor, or head trauma. They say it can also come from long standing hypothyroidism. I really don't know how I got this. Yes I am seeing and endo. I have seen many.
I would be ok I think If i could take HC. I don't know what is causing this. I have never had any psychiatric problems. I can't find any concrete evidence that Klonopin and HC mixed together could be doing this. Thank you so much. I'm very scared. I'm just getting worse day by day and I have a little boy.
Mamie
Posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2009, at 15:00:30
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 21:51:53
This is not an area I know anything about, but last night I was thinking of this, and I wondered if you could help me.
I'm coming out of a bad cold and have allergies and seem to react to Valium (which I need) with sinus congestion and mucuos as well. In order to get some control over my sinus condition I have been using a lot of Becanase (beclomethasone) nasal spray. The last 3 nights I have been effectively unable to sleep. Maybe 4 hours, none of it deep. Could this be from the beclomethasone?
(If so I'm in a trap where beclomethasone > insomnia > feeling unable to reduce Valium > mucuous > beclomethasone.)
So HC made you feel psychotic, (IIRC)?
Did it give you insomnia?
Can we expect a similar adverse effect profile from beclamethasone and HC?
TIA
Posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 15:14:46
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2009, at 15:00:30
> This is not an area I know anything about, but last night I was thinking of this, and I wondered if you could help me.
>
> I'm coming out of a bad cold and have allergies and seem to react to Valium (which I need) with sinus congestion and mucuos as well. In order to get some control over my sinus condition I have been using a lot of Becanase (beclomethasone) nasal spray. The last 3 nights I have been effectively unable to sleep. Maybe 4 hours, none of it deep. Could this be from the beclomethasone?
>
> (If so I'm in a trap where beclomethasone > insomnia > feeling unable to reduce Valium > mucuous > beclomethasone.)
>
> So HC made you feel psychotic, (IIRC)?
>
> Did it give you insomnia?
>
> Can we expect a similar adverse effect profile from beclamethasone and HC?
>
> TIAIs that med a steroid? I don't know. I'm trying to find out about the two drugs I am taking.
No It did not give me insomnia. that's about all it did not give me.. Try and google or call your pharmacist. Thank God Yours is temporary.I'm sorry I could not have been more helpful.
Mamie
Posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2009, at 15:29:33
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 15:14:46
>Is that med a steroid?
Yep
Posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 15:56:26
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2009, at 15:29:33
HMMMM.. I wonder if the two are interacting. I'm taking a benzo as well. could be. temporary for you.. But i did not have insomnia. But still they seem to be interacting. This could be my first clue.. Maybe.... Our bodies are so complex. I hope you feel better. I have to try to get off this benzo. Don't know how. Been on if for years.
Posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2009, at 17:08:42
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 15:56:26
I dunno anything about the HPA axis.
However my integrative physician said that using the beclamethasone spray would muck around with it.
I've had to use larger than usual doses to get some control.
When you said HC made you feel psychotic, I wondered if there was some kind of parallel.
Posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 17:47:32
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2009, at 17:08:42
I'm wondering too. Oh yeah, a steroid will mess with the HPA axis. But in your case it wont last. As you read I have pituitary problems and adrenals.
Posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2009, at 18:31:32
In reply to hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 1, 2009, at 20:05:32
HC is contraindicated in infectious diseases, a primary cause hypoadrenalism and psychiatric diseases, because it is immunosuppressant. So if you are not absolutely sure you do not have Lyme, Lyme-like, or one of the several co-infections, it would be no surprise bad things happened on HC.
The other thing is that HC should only be supplemented to the level that restores what is natural. Going for 20mg is probably exceedingly overshooting the goal. I realize it is a common target dose. That doesn't make it ok. If 24 hour 4-sample tests were not used frequently to monitor restoring levels to normal, then it was pure guesswork and probably went too far too fast.
20mg is enough to cause the adrenal glands to slow down. So it is no surprise that symptoms are bad following abrupt stoppage of HC. A proper stoppage period should involve several months in tiny steps. I realize you had to stop faster though because of the bad things happening.
The speed of dose escalation is also extremely important. It needs to be slow, as in real slow.
For example, 1/4 of 1.25mg for a week, then 1/2 of 1.25mg for a week; then 3/4 of 1.25mg for a week; then 1.25mg for a week, shooting for a goal of 2.5mg, at which time you will stay for a month or so to allow the thyroid and everything else to catch up.I know someone who had severe hypoadrenalism secondary to pituitary dysfunction who stayed on 1.25mg for an entire year, felt a lot better, and weaned carefully off that dose and remained well.
I see it often in the antidepessant world where doctors and patients shoot for the supposed therapeutic dose rather fast. In my opinion, that dose is usually much too high, even though considered the minimal effective dose (by flawed standards), and the speed getting to that dose much too fast. But since it is routine and commonplace, it is accepted as norm. I differ with that.
HC can be very helpful, but it has to be respected with extremely small doses and long titrating periods, because it can be very powerful when the body and mind has been so accustomed to being weak for so long.
An herb helpful at balancing the entire pituitary/adrenal axis is Maca root. It needs to also be respected in small doses. Licorice root will prevent the degredation of your own cortisol and make it last longer. It is kind of like a mild MAOI of cortisol, so to speak. You might consider milder versions of adrenal support such as adrenal cortex extracts or Isocort.
Posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 18:57:48
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2009, at 18:31:32
> HC is contraindicated in infectious diseases, a primary cause hypoadrenalism and psychiatric diseases, because it is immunosuppressant. So if you are not absolutely sure you do not have Lyme, Lyme-like, or one of the several co-infections, it would be no surprise bad things happened on HC.
>
> The other thing is that HC should only be supplemented to the level that restores what is natural. Going for 20mg is probably exceedingly overshooting the goal. I realize it is a common target dose. That doesn't make it ok. If 24 hour 4-sample tests were not used frequently to monitor restoring levels to normal, then it was pure guesswork and probably went too far too fast.
>
> 20mg is enough to cause the adrenal glands to slow down. So it is no surprise that symptoms are bad following abrupt stoppage of HC. A proper stoppage period should involve several months in tiny steps. I realize you had to stop faster though because of the bad things happening.
>
> The speed of dose escalation is also extremely important. It needs to be slow, as in real slow.
> For example, 1/4 of 1.25mg for a week, then 1/2 of 1.25mg for a week; then 3/4 of 1.25mg for a week; then 1.25mg for a week, shooting for a goal of 2.5mg, at which time you will stay for a month or so to allow the thyroid and everything else to catch up.
>
> I know someone who had severe hypoadrenalism secondary to pituitary dysfunction who stayed on 1.25mg for an entire year, felt a lot better, and weaned carefully off that dose and remained well.
>
> I see it often in the antidepessant world where doctors and patients shoot for the supposed therapeutic dose rather fast. In my opinion, that dose is usually much too high, even though considered the minimal effective dose (by flawed standards), and the speed getting to that dose much too fast. But since it is routine and commonplace, it is accepted as norm. I differ with that.
>
> HC can be very helpful, but it has to be respected with extremely small doses and long titrating periods, because it can be very powerful when the body and mind has been so accustomed to being weak for so long.
>
> An herb helpful at balancing the entire pituitary/adrenal axis is Maca root. It needs to also be respected in small doses. Licorice root will prevent the degredation of your own cortisol and make it last longer. It is kind of like a mild MAOI of cortisol, so to speak. You might consider milder versions of adrenal support such as adrenal cortex extracts or Isocort.Thank you. When it is coming from lack of ACTH from the pituitary, Iscort does not work. It has to be a steroid of some kind. It is not adrenal fatigue. secondary adrenal insuffiency cannot be cured. On the best pituitary website there is, it says to take 15-to20 mgs of HC. That is what you body diurinal rhythm would be. But that is besides the point. It did not matter whether I took 2.5 or 20 the pyschosis still happened.
And there is a reason for this, because I need HC. I am very weak because I do not have enough natural cortisol. And cannot stay awake. I have to force myself and sometimes I just cant.
I know many many people who take HC for adrenal insuffiency (not fatigue) who do not have this problem. that is why I am grasping at straws to see if the Klonopin is doing this to me while mixing it with HC. Either that, or I just went into steroid psychosis. However, I do need it.
But cannot live like that. I weaned off of it also. But still having effects such as apathy. not depression apathy.
thanks
Mamie
Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2009, at 19:21:39
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 18:57:48
Yes it can cause psychosis as my Mother was psychotic on it and threw things at me screamed at me etc. But like you she had to have it to live. She used to go into adrenal crisis get rushed to hospital via ambulence and was given ACTH. As for klonopin causing it I don't think so as my Mother was on miltown at the time. It was the cortisone. I'm so sorry for all your horrible medical problems. I did empathize as have hasimotos so know the autoimmune diseases and they stink. Love Phillipa
Posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 20:45:18
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2009, at 19:21:39
> Yes it can cause psychosis as my Mother was psychotic on it and threw things at me screamed at me etc. But like you she had to have it to live. She used to go into adrenal crisis get rushed to hospital via ambulence and was given ACTH. As for klonopin causing it I don't think so as my Mother was on miltown at the time. It was the cortisone. I'm so sorry for all your horrible medical problems. I did empathize as have hasimotos so know the autoimmune diseases and they stink. Love Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
I never got mean on it. Just these very very very strange thoughts, and HIGH HIGH anxiety. to where I could not funtion.. and then when it would wear off I would just lay there with my eyes open in like a trans. I looked like the living dead. But Now I am so weak, I can hardly walk from one room to the other. Because I don't have enough cortisol.
I have hypothyroidism as well. Due to RAI from Graves. and the thyroid medication is not getting into my cells because I dont have enough cortisol to help that. So I basically swallowing a sugar pill.. I hope you are optimal with your hashi's.
I was doing just fine on my thyroid meds for 10 years until my pituitary took a blow.
Thanks Phillipa
Love back
Mamie
Posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 20:46:06
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2009, at 19:21:39
what is miltown?
Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2009, at 21:28:26
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 20:46:06
A very old now basically unused something like a benzo only stronger. I have a microadenoma seen on MRI six years ago radiologist said it was nothing in his report never been read by a doctor. Endo when told him said do you lactate? That's it. My thyroid has been very unstable for about two years now. I'm also 63. Thinking of armour as just started bioidentical hormones. Seems like something needs to be done for you ASAP. What did the endo say? To me sounds like you should be hospitalized in a huge teaching hospital with lots of docs and opinions. Not trying to scare you but know that I care a whole lot. You can babblemail me anytime. Simply click my name in blue and screen appears type a personal message as it's like an e-mail. Then at the bottom hit submit. Love Phillipa
Posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 22:06:25
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone » mylilcappi, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2009, at 21:28:26
> A very old now basically unused something like a benzo only stronger. I have a microadenoma seen on MRI six years ago radiologist said it was nothing in his report never been read by a doctor. Endo when told him said do you lactate? That's it. My thyroid has been very unstable for about two years now. I'm also 63. Thinking of armour as just started bioidentical hormones. Seems like something needs to be done for you ASAP. What did the endo say? To me sounds like you should be hospitalized in a huge teaching hospital with lots of docs and opinions. Not trying to scare you but know that I care a whole lot. You can babblemail me anytime. Simply click my name in blue and screen appears type a personal message as it's like an e-mail. Then at the bottom hit submit. Love Phillipa
Phillipa,
you have a microadenoma? on your pituitary? Geeze I would think that would cause some problems here. Maybe the drug was interfering with your Mother's Hc.. who knows? I am going to try a babblemail you. Will I get it back here or my personal e-mail?
Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2009, at 19:59:58
In reply to Re: hydrocortisone, posted by mylilcappi on July 2, 2009, at 22:06:25
Your personal e-mail no one sees what you write you can also send a copy to yourself by clicking on top Phillipa
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