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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Zana on May 2, 2009, at 19:05:32
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 18:50:44
PS D-Amphetamine and Ritalin did nothing but make me nervous. Actually the D-Am. made me completely zoned out. I had a weird paradoxical reaction.
Sometime, when you have the time,
describe your symptoms. I can't tell, from what you've posted, what's going on.Zana
Posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 19:32:19
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by Zana on May 2, 2009, at 19:05:32
Zana-Maybe you started at too high of a dose? When I first took dextro, I cut it in half to .5 mg, well it was more like .4 because it was the smaller half. It was reallly stimulating but calming at the same time - (maybe that is the zombification effect?) strange. I didn't get any anxiety (except for once in my car) but that little .4 mg. would not let me sleep at all. But it did help me do spring cleaning for 18 hrs straight. It gave me motivation to do necessary stuff. After the first 3 days or so?, I went to the 10 mg as prescribed, and it's effects declined. After less than 2 weeks, just the other day, it didn't seem to affect me at all and I tried reading a math book (omg its 800 pages) and couldn't really do it. I'm not sure how much it would have helped me with the mental work since I began the trial during a 6 day break from school. Ritalin doesn't work very well-it only lasts about 2 hrs. and only for a week or so...and makes me real tired when it wears off..though that hour or 2 I could do more than w/o it...and Adderall gave me real bad bronchial spasms when it wore off. Still, I didn't feel withdraw effects from dextro at all when I didn't take it for a day. I don't understand why doctor's say it is addictive. Actually--any of them. I dont see how any of them are addictive. Maybe if they effective they are addictive? 8}
Main symptoms are anxiety and lack of motivation. that's about it. Can't stay on task-when I'm writing a paper, even after one sentence, I think - oh, I need to cut some tulips and put them in a vase; or - doing research online, i check this forum or get sidetracked when interesting stuff comes up from google and can't keep on task. And then the same thing, oh i need to get up and do this and that, should I take chicken out of the freezer? and the thoughts pop up right in the middle of nowhere...
Motivation-well I have tons of stuff to catch up on after being debilitated by SSRIs for so long-I can't get motivated to do all my important stuff. The short trials of ritalin and adderall gave me the kick i needed to get large school projects done just recently. But this semester was the absolute worst I've ever done as far as assignments. My GPA went down because I feel no motivation to do them anymore. Just this week though, I did sit down and create a really cool collage of pictures the other day- of colorful wooden doors of stucco houses in the mediterranean--I individually cut them out from some poster I bought a couple years ago on clearance..and frames from the dollar store-painted them w/several different colors for effect, attached the little picture hanging thingies, sanded them to make them look aged--I did that with complete focus!!!
Well I took a Ritalin a few minutes ago-i'm going to try to do this paper before it wears off. Then I have a Power Pnt. presentation to do. Still, I noticed these drugs help more w/motivation than actually staying on task. I think the key IS trying to do stuff that interests you...but only in an ideal world will that happen all the time, huh?
Still tell me about the Pristiq. Sorry I'm rambling a bit! Nice talking with you!
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on May 2, 2009, at 19:43:06
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 19:32:19
I tried Providgil and Dexadrine, but they didn't do much. Abilify is what helped me. In my case, the amotivation was part of (unipolar)depression and abilify helped treat what the lexapro and lithium were not sufficiently treating. I'm not sure of your diagnosis or your current meds, but I thought I'd suggest it just in case.
Best,
EE
Posted by linkadge on May 2, 2009, at 20:06:15
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 16:18:28
Stimulants are (contrary to popular belief) not always the best drugs for motivation.
Increased energy and concentration do not always readily equate to increased motivation.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2009, at 20:11:31
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by linkadge on May 2, 2009, at 20:06:15
Link could you explain more please? Phillipa
Posted by rjlockheart on May 2, 2009, at 20:30:48
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 19:32:19
Have you tried self-hypnosis/ make a trial, repeat over, "going to get this done".
Take medication, may help.
Either way....good luck dude.
Posted by Zana on May 2, 2009, at 22:08:11
In reply to Re: drug for motivation! » Zana, posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 19:04:26
Nooo. I had an 18 month, I can't get out of bed, eat, bathe, kind of depression. Really the most horrible, frightening experience in my life. I have been on ADs since Prozac came out but this was something else.
I'll tell you more sometime if you want to know. But to answer your question about Pristiq- I had no side effects except for one thing- I have been anorgasmic since I have been on it. Now I have to say I had less than no interest in sex before I started it so the data is less than perfect and it's not supposed to have sexual side effects in women... Not supposed to... But it is an SSRI/SNRI. I have a bad feeling about the SSRI part and sexual side effects. Time will tell.
But, I have found it a great AD and I have been through them all including Effexor. I don't know what makes this one different. Probably the combo of meds I am on. I was taking 300mg of seroquel when I started it. I am now down to 200mg and planning on going off. I am hoping that I don't miss the seroquel but am a bit nervous that it has been making a contribution. Didn't do much at all for me before I started the Pristiq tho.By the way. You are absolutely right: it is the refridgerator. And I think a good diagnosis is important too.
Take care. You'll get this sorted out.
PS I used Pharmawebcanada.com. They seemed very legit.
Zana
Posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 22:44:59
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by Emily Elizabeth on May 2, 2009, at 19:43:06
EmilyElizabeth-Yes, thanks, that helps. When you had amotivitation as a manifestation of your depression, was it typically related to everything and anything, or only some things?
Posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 22:51:12
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by Zana on May 2, 2009, at 22:08:11
Wow Zana-sorry to hear that. That sounds horrible!! I wonder if an experience like that leads to a greater appreciation of life, in general?
Pristiq-Yeah the sexual side effects....I didn't think about this before, but when I took Effexor long ago, Wellbutrin helped negate that problem. Now, however, I can't take Wellbutrin to counteract xxRI sexual side effects since I can no longer tolerate it. hmm. will have to give that some more thought...Thanks for the heads up :-)
Posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 22:54:02
In reply to drug for motivation!, posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 15:37:27
f. not again.....now I'm back to thinking I have to choose between either having no personality, sexuality and emotions and doing NOTHING - or having those things and NOT being able to do anything!!!
Posted by greywolf on May 3, 2009, at 6:43:32
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by SLS on May 2, 2009, at 18:28:02
> > Or is it generally all or nothing?
>
> Pretty much. When I am at my untreated baseline depression, I can maintain interest in staring blankly at a wall for hours on end.
>
>
> - Scott
Been there. Perhaps that's why I change my living room paint scheme so often.Greywolf
Posted by SLS on May 3, 2009, at 7:36:45
In reply to Re: drug for motivation! » SLS, posted by greywolf on May 3, 2009, at 6:43:32
> > > Or is it generally all or nothing?
> >
> > Pretty much. When I am at my untreated baseline depression, I can maintain interest in staring blankly at a wall for hours on end.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
>
> Been there. Perhaps that's why I change my living room paint scheme so often.
>
> Greywolf
>LOL
- Scott
Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on May 3, 2009, at 9:55:20
In reply to Re: drug for motivation! » greywolf, posted by SLS on May 3, 2009, at 7:36:45
Provigal is not a stimulant
Love the pasta analogy -- my pdoc is going to hate hearing it
lamictal seems to mysteriously help some TRD
it did not help me and the titration period is from hellhorny goat weed (with no additives if you are female) might help with the sexual side effects i have used natures way brand
lifting depression is a good start to helping with motivation but i do find that ADs can scatter me a bit and worsen by already limited interest in housework
straterra can help with focus but it is prohibitively exspensive even with insurance
Posted by Frustratedmama on May 3, 2009, at 10:27:31
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by Elanor Roosevelt on May 3, 2009, at 9:55:20
Hi, I am considering asking for Pristiq. I am still struggling with anger, anxiety, lack of motivation, irritability, etc. I went for a consult with a new doctor (who was very thorough but can't see me regularly as she can only see patients from her "county" on a regular basis). Well, she recommended a few things and included in that list was Cymbalta.... I talked it over with my current doctor and we ended up trying lexapro (to address the issues without weight gain). Well, after two days of worsening depression, major fatigue, feeling very spacy (forgetting where I had been and where I was driving) and some slight nausea I am reconsidering this decision. In researching Cymbalta it looks like this too causes fatigue...so I am wondering is Pristiq the right answer? Any suggestions?
Posted by Zana on May 3, 2009, at 11:00:38
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by Frustratedmama on May 3, 2009, at 10:27:31
I don't want to be a poster child for Pristiq and everyone is different but I have been on it for a little over 3 weeks and have had a very quick, very positive response without any side effects that I can detect except for the anorgasmia which is a complete drag. As you know, I am taking it with a bunch of other stuff but I have not experienced any SSRI apathy. I think the Provigil would mask, or overcome that aspect of the med if it exists. I think it is worth a try if you are in the neck of the AS world.
Zana
Posted by Frustratedmama on May 3, 2009, at 11:19:15
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by Zana on May 3, 2009, at 11:00:38
Zana thanks!!!!
I am taking vyvanse for adhd right now and zyrtec for allergies. I have a diagnosis of adhd and mood disorder (but my daughter has asperger's). I am thinking I will ask for pristiq- your posts seem to mirror my moods frequently. I have been reading a lot of posts lately! let's pray this works- the lexapro left me feeling worse!
Posted by seldomseen on May 3, 2009, at 11:19:29
In reply to drug for motivation!, posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 15:37:27
Have you told your pdoc that you recently quit smoking?
Man, I have said this before on this board, but I'm saying it again - quitting smoking radically changes your brain chemistry. When I quit, it felt like I was having to grow a whole new brain. Nicotine replacement helps, but I am convinced that nicotine is not the only psychoactive substance in cigarette smoke.
I couldn't concentrate on anything. Nothing. I felt really really stupid without the cognitive burst from a cigarette. Sluggish and anxious.
While I don't think qutting smoking *causes* mental illness, I certainly do think it can exacerbate an underlying one. Qutting smoking also creates its own unique set of symptoms.
Most docs are "Yipee! you quit smoking - good for you!" I wish pdocs were more enlightened as to the effect of such an act on our brain chemistry.
Seldom.
Posted by shasling on May 3, 2009, at 13:10:10
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by Emily Elizabeth on May 2, 2009, at 19:43:06
> I tried Providgil and Dexadrine, but they didn't do much. Abilify is what helped me. In my case, the amotivation was part of (unipolar)depression and abilify helped treat what the lexapro and lithium were not sufficiently treating. I'm not sure of your diagnosis or your current meds, but I thought I'd suggest it just in case.
>
> Best,
> EE
Combination of 60 mg Cymbalta and 10 mg Abilify helped me with motivation and cognition very siginificantly. I've since added 100 mg Vyvanse and these three in combination improve me 100% as far as motivation, anergia and an overwhelming propensity to just sit-and-stare are concerned. My mood, thats another thing: good in the morning, kinda lags toward evening.Good luck
Suzie
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on May 3, 2009, at 13:18:48
In reply to Re: drug for motivation! » Emily Elizabeth, posted by garnet71 on May 2, 2009, at 22:44:59
> EmilyElizabeth-Yes, thanks, that helps. When you had amotivitation as a manifestation of your depression, was it typically related to everything and anything, or only some things?
My amotivation was pretty generalized. I didn't want to do anything other than lay on the couch and sleep.
EE
Posted by bleauberry on May 3, 2009, at 17:42:53
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by SLS on May 2, 2009, at 17:17:56
This caught my attention. If someone fits the following criteria, they are considered clinically depressed and the next likely step is to treat a brain chemical imbalance of some mysterious sort.
What caught my attention was that if one were to look at common symtpoms of Lyme disease, or common symptoms of an unsuspected yeast/candida overgrowth, the symptoms look exactly the same as depression. And there are other things often missed in routine physicals and labs that can have the same appearance as depression, such as hypoadrenalism or suboptimal thyroid.
But primarily I was kind of taken aback by how eerily the symptoms of infectious organisms echo the symptoms of "clinical depression".
Practically everyone with undiagnosed unsuspected Lyme disease, or undiagnosed unsuspected yeast, has all of the symptoms listed below.
The problem I think is diagnosis. They make it real hard and real tricky. It need not be. For yeast, simple. Start Nystatin at a low dose and see what happens. If nothing, raise the dose. Still nothing, get to the normal target dose. Nothing, stop. You do not have yeast. Done deal.
On the other hand, if you started getting a lot worse somewhere along the way...the Herx reaction of organism toxins...you just made a diagnosis with a high level of confidence. Same with Lyme, except the test meds would be Tetracycline or Doxycycline.Anyway, depression looks like Lyme looks like yeast. Very deceptive illnesses these are.
>
> I am depressed according to clinical diagnostics.
>
> ************************************************
>
> A. The person experiences a single major depressive episode:
>
> 1. For a major depressive episode a person must have experienced at least five of the nine symptoms below for the same two weeks or more, for most of the time almost every day, and this is a change from his/her prior level of functioning. One of the symptoms must be either (a) depressed mood, or (b) loss of interest.
> 1. Depressed mood. For children and adolescents, this may be irritable mood.
> 2. A significantly reduced level of interest or pleasure in most or all activities.
> 3. A considerable loss or gain of weight (e.g., 5% or more change of weight in a month when not dieting). This may also be an increase or decrease in appetite. For children, they may not gain an expected amount of weight.
> 4. Difficulty falling or staying asleep (insomnia), or sleeping more than usual (hypersomnia).
> 5. Behavior that is agitated or slowed down. Others should be able to observe this.
> 6. Feeling fatigued, or diminished energy.
> 7. Thoughts of worthlessness or extreme guilt (not about being ill).
> 8. Ability to think, concentrate, or make decisions is reduced.
> 9. Frequent thoughts of death or suicide (with or without a specific plan), or attempt of suicide.
>
> ************************************************
>
> I am depressed, period. However, I am not melancholic. I don't dwell on negative thoughts. It is not "depressed mood" that has been my biggest problem.
>
> Depression can present quite variably interindividually, and even intraindividually over time. Sadness and depressed mood are not necessary for one to be described as being depressed clinically. However, if depressed mood is not present, usually a lack of interest and motivation is. In addition, cognitive and memory impairments can be present.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
Posted by garnet71 on May 3, 2009, at 20:05:30
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by Zana on May 3, 2009, at 11:00:38
too late Zana - you have already been designated the poster child for Pritiq! haha
ps - maybe i'll take on that role if I get it next week, but i'm still undecided...
Posted by garnet71 on May 3, 2009, at 20:08:47
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by linkadge on May 2, 2009, at 20:06:15
Linkadge-I found quite the opposite--did you mean the opposite? I mean stimulants (for me anyway) work best for motivation; not as great for concentration/focus..but they do help considerably with that too; but it's not 100%. Interest still is an issue even with stimulants.
I mean, shortly after taking a ritalin last night, i returned several phone calls and finished 2 papers for school. This was after getting nothing accomplished all day...then I woke up this morning feeling much better overall. It seems easier to get up in the morning the next day.
Posted by garnet71 on May 3, 2009, at 20:20:11
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by seldomseen on May 3, 2009, at 11:19:29
Hey-if you look at the National Institute of Mental Health data, they contend that a high proportion of people who smoke have mental illnesses....this has been studied fairly often. It makes me wonder...it's something like 50 percent but I can't remember exactly but you can look it up...
But no-I don't feel any worse from quitting this time. I feel no withdraw symptoms except minor cravings a few times a day which makes me think of the gum. I think any psychotropic drugs help. One time I quit, I started getting panic attacks-i wasn't on any pscyho drugs. Another time I quit, I felt horrible and that sluggish feeling; and twice felt mentally foggy like you had indicated. But so far, so good.
So yeah, I've quit a few times. When I'd start back up-I'd try to be a social smoker only. I've been a closet smoker for a long period (not in public and/or just at night)...I've tried to smoke only when I drink alcohol....it only lasts so long. Then I've quit several times and just smoke other people's cigs on occasion-my son's friends that stop over, the neighbors, coworkers...Ill give it up for months, or a year at a time, and then change my mind in a crisis. I am just so sick of those things though. But no, didn't mention it to my doctor, but will tell my new PDoc if I ever get to see him. Thanks for mentioning this. How long has it been for you since you quit?
Posted by linkadge on May 3, 2009, at 20:40:32
In reply to Re: drug for motivation! » seldomseen, posted by garnet71 on May 3, 2009, at 20:20:11
Stimulants can improve motivation for some people and some tasks (especially well known tasks).
Stimulants don't always improve motivation however. It depends on the ballance of monoamines in the prefrontal cortex. If dopamine concentrations are already high in the prefrontal cortex, you can actually induce depression by elevating them further.
This is why people take their time and sip coffee when performing certain tasks. The right ratio of dopamine to serotonin will increase motivation, but if you increase dopamine too far you can start to induce depressive, antisocial and/or amotivational syndromes.
This is why some people compain of depression and apathy on stimulans. If you reach this point, the stimulant does not increase motivation but rather decreases it. In this case, you may actually benifit from a lower dose, or even the addition of an SSRI.
Linkadge
Posted by garnet71 on May 3, 2009, at 21:06:32
In reply to Re: drug for motivation!, posted by linkadge on May 3, 2009, at 20:40:32
Hmm. I think that's exactly what I wanted to hear.
I've never felt depressive or apathy from stimulants (yet); but SSRIs and Wellbutrin recently did just that--totally wiped out what little motivation i had and made me depressed and fatigued. I could barely even get out of bed!
That's one thing I like about the stimulants though-I don't feel too many negative side effects like with ADs I have taken; on the other hand, they don't work all the time and the effect doesn't last too long..and Ritalin in particular makes me tired when it wears off...
Well thanks Linkadge! I will keep all that in mind.
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