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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 36. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jeroen on September 5, 2008, at 12:52:50
feeling not well due to Abilify i think
causing anxiety, increased paranoia, nervousness
10 mg for a month now
Posted by Phillipa on September 5, 2008, at 13:39:38
In reply to feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride, posted by Jeroen on September 5, 2008, at 12:52:50
Jeroen was worried about you still in hospital? Can you try the seroquel again? Love Phillipa ps manic misses you too.
Posted by Jeroen on September 5, 2008, at 13:50:13
In reply to Re: feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on September 5, 2008, at 13:39:38
yea i was thinking of trying seroquel or replacing it from the abilify
but maybe sulpiride is still worth going solo
im also scared of seroquel its been causing to let me fall attacks (epilepsy) latelly
but this isnt good anymore or healthy, this morning i woke up with hurt on my heart
Posted by manic666 on September 6, 2008, at 3:33:58
In reply to Re: feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride, posted by Jeroen on September 5, 2008, at 13:50:13
hey friend an buddy are you hiding from me, let go were no man has gone before . manic666
Posted by SLS on September 6, 2008, at 5:30:19
In reply to feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride, posted by Jeroen on September 5, 2008, at 12:52:50
> feeling not well due to Abilify i think
>
> causing anxiety, increased paranoia, nervousness
>
> 10 mg for a month nowYou are probably right. However, I don't think it makes sense to take two antipsychotics that are preferential to presynaptic autoreceptors. It could cause agitation and activation of positive symptoms.
Is it possible that you have schizoaffective disorder with a bipolar depressive component? If so, you might need, in addition to antipsychotics, mood stabilizers and antidepressants.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on September 6, 2008, at 6:50:27
In reply to Re: feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride » Jeroen, posted by SLS on September 6, 2008, at 5:30:19
i have schizoaffective disorder with a bipolar depressive component
schizophrenia and an unknown psychosis caused by lamictal wich i get psychotic on zyprexa and clozapine
strange, and mean things going on in my head
Posted by Jeroen on September 6, 2008, at 6:51:07
In reply to Re: feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride, posted by manic666 on September 6, 2008, at 3:33:58
red alert
Posted by Jeroen on September 6, 2008, at 6:53:00
In reply to Re: feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride » Jeroen, posted by SLS on September 6, 2008, at 5:30:19
if i get psychotic on sulpiride thats it, ill go back to seroquel and face the evil seizures like falling behind and with a taught i never can walk again, because thats what it was
Posted by Phillipa on September 6, 2008, at 19:40:55
In reply to Re: feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride, posted by Jeroen on September 6, 2008, at 6:53:00
Jeroen listen to Scott he is very wise and knowledgeable. Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on September 7, 2008, at 4:04:50
In reply to Re: feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride, posted by Jeroen on September 6, 2008, at 6:50:27
> i have schizoaffective disorder with a bipolar depressive component
>
> schizophrenia and an unknown psychosis caused by lamictal wich i get psychotic on zyprexa and clozapine
>
> strange, and mean things going on in my headI'm still not sure on the whole Lamictal psychosis.
I mean anything can happen with psychotropics -- I have something more or less like generalized Tardive Dystonia
(fairly permanent stiffness from waist down and biceps, aggravated by other medications probably and worse with stress and in the evening)
...from taking Zyprexa at 12.5mg with stiffness occurring covered up by Amantadine, which became futile and potentially not a good idea to continue, for one month. That was 3 years ago.
Seroquel that I take now, which I was taking before, is of course a treatment (ironically Zyprexa too and Clozaril) for TDy and so is Valium (which I still am reeling from reducing)
But my point is that there can be other explanations and without a stable plasma level on any antipsychotic, which seems to be the case, its hard to even evaluate yourself -- I'm not trying to be mean spirited, but there seems to be a laundry list of them going in circles.
Schizoaffective disorder requires more due diligence with medication levels because it is an affective disorder and should not be managed at high doses unless absolutely necessary.
But if there is a bipolar component I am confused as to why the Lamictal "caused a psychosis". Of course Lamictal is not the end all to BP I/II.There are a fairly large list of AEDs including Depakote which could be added on, provided they don't seriously interact with your neuroleptic.
-- best wishes
Jay
Posted by Jeroen on September 7, 2008, at 15:27:37
In reply to Re: feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride » Jeroen, posted by yxibow on September 7, 2008, at 4:04:50
hi, the lamictal gave me an euphoric feeling first day, then it resulted in psychosis
when i quit the anti psychotic i actually feel that euphoric feeling again and propably too much dopamine release,
since i never got psychotic on zyprexa before this lamictal psychosis, I DO NOW so its a psychosis or brain receptor damage
Posted by Zyprexa on September 7, 2008, at 23:10:32
In reply to Re: feeling not well due to Abilify And OR Supliride » Jeroen, posted by SLS on September 6, 2008, at 5:30:19
Jeron,
Its very likely that Abilify would cause those simptoms. I know this from my experiences with it.
Posted by yxibow on September 8, 2008, at 5:54:52
In reply to to yxibow, posted by Jeroen on September 7, 2008, at 15:27:37
> hi, the lamictal gave me an euphoric feeling first day, then it resulted in psychosis
>
> when i quit the anti psychotic i actually feel that euphoric feeling again and propably too much dopamine release,
>
>
> since i never got psychotic on zyprexa before this lamictal psychosis, I DO NOW so its a psychosis or brain receptor damagePsychotropics have a buildup and buildown period in time in the body and varies by person.
Unless one is taking a hard core untested street drug, and even then, I haven't heard of the word "brain receptor damage".
Receptors may be overloaded and used to medication after time and may have to be withdrawn from medication to change.
Neuroplasticity also figures in the equation as to how the brain remaps things as well.
-- Jay
Posted by Jeroen on September 8, 2008, at 6:47:07
In reply to Re: to yxibow » Jeroen, posted by yxibow on September 8, 2008, at 5:54:52
its a nasty psychosis due lamictal, i think i can reverse it with 800 mg of seroquel but thats like a death therapy, the main problem is RAPID HEART RATE AND EXTREME SEDATION. VERY SCARY, also the hardcore EPILEPSY im getting from seroquel
these are the last times of my life sorry ... stupid psychiatry
Posted by Racer on September 8, 2008, at 10:59:10
In reply to to yxibow, posted by Jeroen on September 7, 2008, at 15:27:37
> hi, the lamictal gave me an euphoric feeling first day, then it resulted in psychosis
>
>
> since i never got psychotic on zyprexa before this lamictal psychosis, I DO NOW so its a psychosis or brain receptor damageJeroen, there's something you hear a lot in the sciences: correlation does not equal causation. This may not seem helpful to you, due to the pain you're in right now, but all you can really say so far is that there was a very close correlation in time between your very short trial of Lamictal and the onset of your psychosis. As far as the correlation/causation goes, an argument could be made that the onset of your psychosis is what caused the initial euphoria, which you attribute to the Lamictal.
I know you believe it was the Lamictal, and that could be exactly the case. I just hope you can allow yourself to consider other possible explanations.
Also, what dose of Lamictal were you taking, and how long were you taking it? What dose did you start at, and how long were you on it before increasing it? Lamictal is one of those that requires a very low start and slow titration schedule.
Best luck to you, Jeroen. I hope you find something that helps you very soon.
Posted by Jeroen on September 8, 2008, at 11:25:21
In reply to Re: to yxibow » Jeroen, posted by Racer on September 8, 2008, at 10:59:10
my dose was 25 mg of lamictal
i felt better the first days but then nightmare broke lose
i watched a movie and felt much better, i even smiled, few days later i was rushed to the hospital by police and stayed there for a month
thats how deep my pain is
Posted by Jeroen on September 8, 2008, at 11:38:35
In reply to Re: to yxibow » Jeroen, posted by Racer on September 8, 2008, at 10:59:10
hi, my med to become safe was zyprexa, but now i react badly to it wich is bad i get psychotic on zyprexa
on the other hand abilify not i think ... or less
Posted by Racer on September 8, 2008, at 12:31:18
In reply to To Zyprexa, posted by Jeroen on September 8, 2008, at 11:38:35
> hi, my med to become safe was zyprexa, but now i react badly to it wich is bad i get psychotic on zyprexa
>
Jeroen, can you describe the symptoms you experience when you become psychotic? What symptoms, exactly, are you trying to treat.Psychosis can be a pretty broad term, and maybe it would help to know what it means to you.
Posted by Jeroen on September 8, 2008, at 12:55:15
In reply to Re: About Zyprexa » Jeroen, posted by Racer on September 8, 2008, at 12:31:18
well basically that i'm loosing it, rapid heart beat, paranoia
Posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 16:49:36
In reply to Re: About Zyprexa, posted by Jeroen on September 8, 2008, at 12:55:15
What dose were you taking of Zyprexa? Maybe you just were not taking it long enough. It takes a while to start working fully. Especialy when I stoped the abilify, and went back on zyprexa. I had to use higher doses for a while befor it would work like it used to. One year later its starting to work again. Maybe the psychosis you experienced were from too low a dose or that it was old simptoms that just have not gone away yet. If you take a higher dose for a while it might work for your psychosis. I've taken doses of zyprexa as high as 50mg before. I don't sugest that and I only would do it for a day or two.
Personaly I think you should give zyprexa or seroquel a try. And take it for a long time. It may not be effective right away. Make sure you have high enough dose. If a low dose is not working try a higher one.
Posted by Jeroen on September 8, 2008, at 16:54:15
In reply to Re: About Zyprexa » Jeroen, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 16:49:36
seroquel blocks the psychosis fine witouth psychotic episodes
abilify too but its not perfect drugand seroquel is sedating ... but a good night sleep in this miserable world where the healthy rules and poor and sick suffer
Posted by Racer on September 8, 2008, at 17:23:47
In reply to Re: About Zyprexa, posted by Jeroen on September 8, 2008, at 12:55:15
Hi, Jeroen,
Thanks for answering my question. I'm going to ask more, though.
Do you have auditory or visual hallucinations? Pressured speech? Flight of ideas? You've mentioned paranoia, which can be related to psychosis. When you are "losing it," what does that look like for you? Are you angry with people? Frightened? So depressed you want to crawl into bed and never come out again? Do people tell you that you're not making sense or that you are experiencing disordered thinking?
Also, what is the course of your illness? Were you diagnosed before starting the Lamictal? Did your diagnosis change because of your response to Lamictal? Again, the more clear the picture, the better the chance at a helpful answer.
I have no doubt whatsoever that you're suffering, Jeroen, and suffering greatly. I wish I could help you. Maybe having some better idea of what psychosis looks like for you will help with ideas about good medication options for you.
Oh, and if it helps any -- I believe English is not your native language? And you're living in a non-English speaking country? If that is indeed the case, just the fact that you can express yourself in a foreign language makes me think that your thinking probably isn't severely disordered, if at all. ;-)
Posted by Jeroen on September 9, 2008, at 2:19:11
In reply to Re: About psychosis » Jeroen, posted by Racer on September 8, 2008, at 17:23:47
its hard to explain but i have rapid heart beat, 100 times normal anxiety, and 100 times paranoia
Also, what is the course of your illness?
SchizoWere you diagnosed before starting the Lamictal?
YesDid your diagnosis change because of your response to Lamictal?
Schizo + Psychosis
Posted by yxibow on September 9, 2008, at 12:52:39
In reply to Re: to yxibow, posted by Jeroen on September 8, 2008, at 11:25:21
> my dose was 25 mg of lamictal
>
> i felt better the first days but then nightmare broke lose
>
> i watched a movie and felt much better, i even smiled, few days later i was rushed to the hospital by police and stayed there for a month
>
> thats how deep my pain is
I have to concur in this case that correlation is not causation.25mg of Lamictal is a -starting- dose, and is raised very carefully. It is decidedly not psychotropic at that level that I have heard of for anybody, it is merely a dose to test if you have a rash or allergy to it.
3 days of 25mg Lamictal is not even in the psychiatric window of change.
You may have been experiencing endogenous psychosis at the same time which may have in the cosmic spectrum (I'm trying not to attack your feelings) been pinpointed at the micron level by Lamictal but almost quickly gone, if ever at all. And that is not even a evidence based scientific view that most psychiatrists would hold.
-- best wishes
-- Jay
Posted by Jeroen on September 9, 2008, at 13:26:28
In reply to Re: to yxibow » Jeroen, posted by yxibow on September 9, 2008, at 12:52:39
no its caused by lamictal, google and see that anti seizure meds can cause psychosis
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