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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 36. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by subconscious101 on August 31, 2008, at 21:50:17
I was on a drug study for three months taking Agomelatine and it litarly saved my life. I have been off the medication now for 2 months and i am right back to where i started. I am very angry right now because this medication is so tightly gaurded that i can hardly find out any information about it. I know that it has been said that this medication is in phase III and if everything goes well i am probably looking at the end of 2009/2010 I CAN NOT WAIT THAT LONG!!!!!!!!!!!! My docter has tried calling Novartis to find out if there is any way that i could get back Agomelatine and was denied due to the fact is is not available in any country. Don't get me wrong i am thankful that i have had the opportunity to experience this new wonderdrug but at the same time comming off of the medication almost drove me to full out crisis. There must be something that i can due to get back on the medication seeing as i was monitored very closly for three months and the drug company knows excatly how it reacts with my body. I would like to note that before i was on this mediaction i was collecting disability from the government due to my depression and anxiety and 2 months into the study i withdrawld mysely off of disability because i was no longer dependent and started up a business with my best friend and now that i am off Agomelatine i am slipping back into severe depression, stress, and sleep related issues. I am no longer able to function properly and fear i may loose my company. I dont feel that the drug company knows just how serious this is for me. I have tried over 20 diffent kinds of medications for depression and have had no sucsess. I would seriously give up everything i have to be back on this medication. Is there anyone out there that know of any way that i might get back on this medication or any new information that may be usefull to me??? I am reaching out now because i do not know what else there is for me to do. PLEASE SOMEONE HELP!
Posted by eric wagner on August 31, 2008, at 22:43:52
In reply to Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by subconscious101 on August 31, 2008, at 21:50:17
> I was on a drug study for three months taking Agomelatine and it litarly saved my life. I have been off the medication now for 2 months and i am right back to where i started. I am very angry right now because this medication is so tightly gaurded that i can hardly find out any information about it. I know that it has been said that this medication is in phase III and if everything goes well i am probably looking at the end of 2009/2010 I CAN NOT WAIT THAT LONG!!!!!!!!!!!! My docter has tried calling Novartis to find out if there is any way that i could get back Agomelatine and was denied due to the fact is is not available in any country. Don't get me wrong i am thankful that i have had the opportunity to experience this new wonderdrug but at the same time comming off of the medication almost drove me to full out crisis. There must be something that i can due to get back on the medication seeing as i was monitored very closly for three months and the drug company knows excatly how it reacts with my body. I would like to note that before i was on this mediaction i was collecting disability from the government due to my depression and anxiety and 2 months into the study i withdrawld mysely off of disability because i was no longer dependent and started up a business with my best friend and now that i am off Agomelatine i am slipping back into severe depression, stress, and sleep related issues. I am no longer able to function properly and fear i may loose my company. I dont feel that the drug company knows just how serious this is for me. I have tried over 20 diffent kinds of medications for depression and have had no sucsess. I would seriously give up everything i have to be back on this medication. Is there anyone out there that know of any way that i might get back on this medication or any new information that may be usefull to me??? I am reaching out now because i do not know what else there is for me to do. PLEASE SOMEONE HELP!
Good chance they know something about the medication they'd rather you not know.
Posted by desolationrower on August 31, 2008, at 23:53:12
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » subconscious101, posted by eric wagner on August 31, 2008, at 22:43:52
Hm, i'm just making a wild guess here but it is possible you could get a (probably chinese) chemical supplier to make you a batch. Probably would have to pay minimum 10$ grand for it.
-D/R
Posted by Phillipa on September 1, 2008, at 0:16:09
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by desolationrower on August 31, 2008, at 23:53:12
Was the study for a certain length of time? I thought if you responded possitively to a trial med you could stay on it? Maybe they did find something wrong with it? Love Phillipa so sorry for your pain
Posted by SLS on September 1, 2008, at 7:36:00
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by desolationrower on August 31, 2008, at 23:53:12
You might like to try combining Prozac with low dosages of Rozerem (ramelteon). This might approximate the pharmacodynamics of agomelatine.
- melatonin M1 agonist
- melatonin M2 agonist
- 5-HT2c antagonist- Scott
Posted by Netch on September 1, 2008, at 9:40:34
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » desolationrower, posted by SLS on September 1, 2008, at 7:36:00
I've been in contact with Novartis and they said they plan to release it first in US within 12-24 months.
There is no legal ground for prescription until FDA has approved it.
Posted by Marty on September 1, 2008, at 13:54:35
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » subconscious101, posted by eric wagner on August 31, 2008, at 22:43:52
> Good chance they know something about the medication they'd rather you not know.
---
What could he learn that it didn't already learned from his trial ? It's not about nothing really secretive. It's about the fact that Agomelatine isn't 'released' yet anywhere in the world and so there is no 'special request' evaluated at this time./\/\arty
Posted by Marty on September 1, 2008, at 14:26:02
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » desolationrower, posted by SLS on September 1, 2008, at 7:36:00
> You might like to try combining Prozac with low dosages of Rozerem (ramelteon). This might approximate the pharmacodynamics of agomelatine.
>
> - melatonin M1 agonist
> - melatonin M2 agonist
> - 5-HT2c antagonist
---
Hi Scott, Wouldn't Serzone/Desyrel + Rozerem more like it since Agomelatine doesn't induce SRI ? Serzone and Desyrel does.. but way less than Prozac I think... no ?/\/\arty
Posted by SLS on September 1, 2008, at 14:38:31
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » SLS, posted by Marty on September 1, 2008, at 14:26:02
> > You might like to try combining Prozac with low dosages of Rozerem (ramelteon). This might approximate the pharmacodynamics of agomelatine.
> >
> > - melatonin M1 agonist
> > - melatonin M2 agonist
> > - 5-HT2c antagonist
> ---
> Hi Scott, Wouldn't Serzone/Desyrel + Rozerem more like it since Agomelatine doesn't induce SRI ? Serzone and Desyrel does.. but way less than Prozac I think... no ?
>
> /\/\artyI chose Prozac because it is an extremely potent antagonist at 5-HT2c receptors - more so than at the 5-HT transporter. One could probably get away with using 5mg. The antidepressant effect of agomelatine may very well hinge upon this property in addition to the M1 and M2 agonism it produces.
I am curious about your choices of drugs. What is your rationale? Maybe you are on to something.
You are good stuff.
- Scott
Posted by Marty on September 1, 2008, at 15:22:53
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » Marty, posted by SLS on September 1, 2008, at 14:38:31
> > > - melatonin M1 agonist
> > > - melatonin M2 agonist
> > > - 5-HT2c antagonist
> > ---
> > Hi Scott, Wouldn't Serzone/Desyrel + Rozerem more like it> I am curious about your choices of drugs. What is your rationale? Maybe you are on to something.
---Search no diamond in my rationale, there's none. I was just plain wrong: Serzone and Desyrel antagonize 5-HT2a, not 5-HT2c ... The rationale was based on the 5-HT2c antagonist assumption. If it would have been the case it would have procure the 5-HT2c antagonism with lesser SRI action than Prozac. Actually, just to point out how bad this idea was: mCPP, an active metabolite of both Nefazodone and Trazodone, act as a 5-HT2c AGONIST. A fact which explain partly the positive effect of Desyrel on libido: 5-HT2c agonism = sexual arousal. Counter intuitive if you think about the 5-HT2c antagonism strategy to get rid of the sexual side effects of the SRIs.. but I guess this is to protect 5-HT2c from overstimulation which results in desentiszation. That said, Prozac is the proof, anyway, that this strategy is somewhat overrated.
Btw, if Prozac could provide good 5-HT2c antagonism without much SRI action at small dosage (ie: 5mg) .. I wonder why I never read about trying it a this dose for SRIs induced sexual side effects. I would deal much better with a very slightly increased level of SRI than with all the unpleasant side effects coming with Cyproheptadine (ie: sex-killing sedation, increased appetite/weight gain).
> You are good stuff.
Thanks Scott. Coming from you, this compliment is quite flattering for anyone here knowing you. I may not be one of the most knowledgeable person here, but I like to think that I improve by the day.Speaking of good stuff, thanks for this:
http://www.slschofield.com/medicine/psychiatric_drugs_chart.html.. If you had 1$ every time it saved me a painful research in 'Abstracts Land', you could have enough, at least, to buy yourself a new computer. ;)
/\/\arty
Posted by subconscious101 on September 1, 2008, at 15:23:51
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » Marty, posted by SLS on September 1, 2008, at 14:38:31
You guys i have tried most of these medications and believe me they are nothing like agomelatine. Agomelatine can not be duplicated!
Posted by Marty on September 1, 2008, at 15:25:53
In reply to Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by subconscious101 on August 31, 2008, at 21:50:17
subconscious101,If Agomelatine is marketted in Europe in the next couple months (rumored to be possibly THIS MONTH) .. would you be able to afford some ? I, for one, plan to order it ASAP.
/\/\arty
Posted by subconscious101 on September 1, 2008, at 15:28:32
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » subconscious101, posted by Marty on September 1, 2008, at 15:25:53
Where did you hear that information because alot of people say things on here and have nothing to back them up?? Yes of course i would be able to afford it i would fly there if i had to. Like i said i would give up everything that i have to get back on it.
Posted by Marty on September 1, 2008, at 15:34:14
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by subconscious101 on September 1, 2008, at 15:23:51
> You guys i have tried most of these medications and believe me they are nothing like agomelatine. Agomelatine can not be duplicated!
---
Again, you just increased my hope in this drug. That said, maybe not emulated.. but duplicated/synthesized it could. Emulation is quite difficult or impossible just by mixing drugs sharing some properties with Agomelatine and that's mainly because it's never just a question of 'What does it do ?' but also a question of 'WHERE DOES IT DO IT ?'. By example: 5-HT2c antagonism .. but is it everywhere in the brain or more specifically in one/some region ? This changes a lot of things. Anyway .. Like someone on this thread mentionned previously about duplicating (Synthesizing/Producing) Agomelatine: you would need thousands of dollars just to get a chemist find a way to produce some.. and them charge you about a couple hundred per month for your 30 pills./\/\arty
Posted by Marty on September 1, 2008, at 15:43:03
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by subconscious101 on September 1, 2008, at 15:28:32
> Where did you hear that information because alot of people say things on here and have nothing to back them up?? Yes of course i would be able to afford it i would fly there if i had to. Like i said i would give up everything that i have to get back on it.
---Don't want to give you false hope, but I read that here on pbabble (on a thread you were on also) and *I THINK* saw something on the web about this rumor also... I cross my finger that it's for real. Search the thread I talk about, I think you were the one starting it a couple weeks/months ago... there you'll find the other guy who seems to know the source of this rumor. I think I remember seeing this rumor mentionned in a PDF/PowerPoint in russian a couple weeks ago and an other place I can't remember for now.
/\/\arty
Posted by Marty on September 1, 2008, at 17:07:53
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by subconscious101 on September 1, 2008, at 15:28:32
BTW Subconscious, do you know 'Google Alerts' service ? It's free and you may want to use it to track what's news about Agomelatine. You simply give Google Alerts the keyword 'Agomelatine' and your email adresse. That's it.. when Google detects some new web pages/document mentioning Agomelatine, it sends you an Email ... you can ask updates every time there's something new or a report every week, month etc...
That's how I found out about THIS THREAD you just created ! Google sent me an email with the URL of the thread ...
Enjoy,
/\/\arty
Posted by Nadezda on September 2, 2008, at 10:23:05
In reply to Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by subconscious101 on August 31, 2008, at 21:50:17
Someone posted this on Wiki Answers:
~~ Agomelatine is currently being re-examined by the EMEA , after a previous failed attempt by Servier to gain approval in 2006. The concern at the time was that effiicacy for long term treatment of depression had not been demonstated. Recent studies have shown agomelatine is effective in long term treatment of depression and useful in anxiety disorders. The EMEA result is expected in mid 2008, so the drug may be available in europe in 2009 if there are no problems.
In the USA Novartis has the rights to develop Agomelatine and it is currently in phase III trials, submission to the FDA may occur by the end of 2008. If all goes well I guess end of 2009/2010 for release in the US is likely. ~~It's almost impossible to find anything about agomelatine on the Novartis or Servier sites, which is strange. But there are five clinical trials, all not recruiting, all scheduled to be completed in the 2009, one of t hem not until October. Sounds like agomelatine won't be available until at least 2010.
Where did your pdoc call? Maybe if he called people at the different clinical trials, someone would be able to help. The locations are listed on the Novartis R&D site (you go to a US gov site, I think).
Wish I could think of something better.
Nadezda
Posted by Marty on September 2, 2008, at 10:44:21
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » subconscious101, posted by Nadezda on September 2, 2008, at 10:23:05
Nadezda,
> But there are five clinical trials, all not recruiting, all scheduled to be completed in the 2009, one of t hem not until October. Sounds like agomelatine won't be available until at least 2010.
---I don't think the 2009 scheduled clinical trials are significative regarding the marketting date of Agomelatine. There will be many clinical trials on this drug, non stop, for many years if it were to be marketed: seeking approval for other disorders, strengthening the reputation of the drug and creating a buzz with good trial results etc. Even if the EMEA approve AGO in 2008, Servier needs to generate other good trial results to compensate for some that were not very good in order to make it clear in the mind of the practicians: there's a world of difference between "AGO -IS- working.. 8 out of 11 trials proved it" .. Versus .. "4 out of 7 trials proved it". Also those clinical trials in 2009 could be a 'Plan C' for Servier if the EMEA doesn't approve AGO in 2008... to prepare themself for a 3rd submission to the EMEA.
I still think we could se AGO marketed in Europe between this month and Febuary 2009.
BTW, Have you tried Agomelatine Nadezda ?
/\/\arty
Posted by Nadezda on September 2, 2008, at 13:40:58
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » Nadezda, posted by Marty on September 2, 2008, at 10:44:21
I haven't tried it. But from what I've read after this thread started, I'd be very interested in doing so.
I'm not sure what I think about melatonin agonists-- rozerem doesn't do a lot for me. But I have severe issues with sleep, which of course contributes to a lot of stress and moodiness and bad days.
The studies I cited were US studies, by the way-- so I think they were meant for the US market. Was the problem bad results, or just not a long-term enough trial, in Europe? I had understood from what I saw that it was more that the Servier studies were short term, and the Europeans wanted evidence of long-term efficacy (and probably safety). You're right to be a little more pessimistic about getting anything to market here-- it often takes much longer than initially announced. Really beyond frustrating.
What are you using now?
Nadezda
Posted by subconscious101 on September 2, 2008, at 15:40:27
In reply to Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by subconscious101 on August 31, 2008, at 21:50:17
I was just wondering if anyone knows of an antidepressent that doesent generly tend to make people feel more anxious and parinoid . I am so sick and tierd of trying ADs that make me feel that way. It seems everything that i have tried so far makes me feel more anxious and parinoid. Even agomelatine did abit but the benafits where much much greater and it was much less than some other AD i have tried. Any suggestions ?? Welbutrian works great for me as an AD but even at 150 mg the smallest dose makes me feel realy anxious and paranoid.
Posted by Marty on September 2, 2008, at 18:33:23
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon) » Marty, posted by Nadezda on September 2, 2008, at 13:40:58
Agomelatine is better than ZoloftCheck this out (the link in my new post).. It's making 'medical' news TODAY ..
Posted by Marty on September 2, 2008, at 18:40:04
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by subconscious101 on September 2, 2008, at 15:40:27
I was wondering if Dr.Kasper was respected enough to influence the EMEA to approve Agomelatine: Well guess what ?
"Dr.Kasper ...is also an adviser to the European Agency for the Evaluation of Medicinal Products (EMEA)."
This isn't good news.. this is VERY good news.
Source: http://www.litebook.com/support/skasper.asp
/\/\arty
Posted by Nadezda on September 2, 2008, at 20:51:11
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine (Valdoxon), posted by Marty on September 2, 2008, at 18:40:04
That's a great find, Marty.
I know my pdoc doesn't really trust European studies-- at least, he wasn't willing to try Milnacipran based on the use of Ixel. (Maybe he had other reasons, too, I don't know.) But this sounds like extremely promising evidence-- and if it holds up here, could be really great.
I probably wouldn't try it without his involvement, but I'd be very interested in knowing what happens, and-- if and when it's released in Europe-- how people are doing with it. I'll also ask my pdoc about it the next time I see him.
Let's hope it progresses as this study suggests.
Nadezda
Posted by Negcreep on September 3, 2008, at 9:44:20
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine--great news! » Marty, posted by Nadezda on September 2, 2008, at 20:51:11
Hey guys, seems like the forum is once again buzzing with talk of AGO. The new articles saying that its better than Zoloft are great as well. Just so you know, I wrote the wiki answers and half the wikipedia entry on AGO, using all the stuff I've read online. I think I referenced most of it on wikipedia, so its all good.
Subconcious....I think you are pretty much screwed untill agomelatine is released somewhere in the world. Saying that...I have seen those chinese chemist websites someone mentioned. They do indeed seem to offer drugs/chemicals for ridiculous prices. Even if you did mangage to pick some up however, what assurrances do you have that its even the real deal? Or that its safe for human consumption!?
Id bet that while you havent really found any other drug that works for you that there must have been something you have tried that at least helped a bit. Go back on one of those and cope best you can in the mean time its all you can do.Try combinations as well.I keep checking the EMEA website for news of AGO. They release monthly reports on drugs approved in the first week of every month.
Neg
Posted by Marty on September 3, 2008, at 14:29:58
In reply to Re: Getting back on Agomelatine--great news!, posted by Negcreep on September 3, 2008, at 9:44:20
Neg,
Just to be 100% sure: Do you know 'Google Alerts' service ? If not I suggest you too setup yourself an alert for the term 'Agomelatine' and 'Valdoxan' .. whatever something appears on the web about those terms Google sends you an email with the links. Usually it takes about ~5 hours MAX. It even catch up any new thread/post related to AGOM on pbabble .. So we wont miss anything.
/\/\arty
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