![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 78. Go back in thread:
Posted by jamestheyonger on December 10, 2005, at 14:08:53
In reply to *DON'T MISS THIS* - Listen to Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.., posted by ReadersLeaders on December 10, 2005, at 1:26:01
"Dr. Tracy as the guest:(Dr. Ann Blake Tracy, a Ph.D. in Health Sciences with the emphasis on Psychology"
This degree has nothing to do with medical science.
Posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 14:14:44
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 13:17:07
No, I did not come to believe that I was abused. The state of mind however, was one that certainly rendered me more suggestable.
For instance, under the influence of SSRI's, it was easier for me to swallow the assertion that I was chemically imballenced :)(I don't know if I could believe that when hypnotized.)
Linkadge
Posted by gardenergirl on December 10, 2005, at 14:21:25
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » ReadersLeaders, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 11:22:45
Oh
My
GodI don't know whether to laugh, cry, or start writing letters.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on December 10, 2005, at 14:25:44
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 13:14:05
> >
> PCP is a dissociative anaesthetic.And they used to use it on 2 year olds for surgery (I won't tell you how long ago). When I am asked if I've ever had a "bad reaction" to an anesthetic, I always wonder if I should tell my docs I "did angel dust" when I was 2. :)
Nothing like waking up with your eyes bandaged, in restraints, and hallucinating. I have very vivid albeit brief snatches of odd memories from that experience.
gg
Posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 14:36:35
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 13:51:28
"Elevated serotonin is not the problem, because there is no such condition."
Elevated serotonin is implicated in a number of conditions. If you visited the Buspar website a year ago, it would have told you that anxiety is related to elevated serotonin.
There is a lot of research that shows that anxiety may actually be related to high serotonin levels. Serotonin can be anxiogenic. Hence the SSRI start up anxiety, and GI effects that don't go away for many people.
Hinting that high serotonin leads to agression is not unfounded. Many doctors have noted that artificially increasing serotonin can lead to emotional indifference. Studies on animals sometimes show similar results, ie. MAO-A knockout mice are unusally agressive.
"Serotonin is a precursor to melatonin, so how could it suppress melatonin? What is premature aging? She cannot bring these ideas into a coherent whole. "
I don't know, you tell me. Most of the SSRI's decrease melatonin concentrations. Infact, melatonin administration reduces the antidepressant effect of fluoxetine. In the night time melatonin levels are at their highest, and serotonin levels drop. SSRI's supress melatonin production via agonism at the 5-ht2a receptors.
The 2a blocking antidepressants tend to increase melatonin production.
Lowering melatonin levels will lead to premature aging.
The connection to LSD is also not unfounded. I experienced visual halucinations on SSRI's. A number of other people on this board have too.
Prozac seems to have the highest propensity to do this, since it seems to more strongly agonize the 5-ht2a receptor, via 5-h2c blockade.
She is attempting to make these connections, so that we have a basis for understaning the kind of behavior that they can produce.
I have what I call APPD, "antidepressant induced perceptual disorder"
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 14:39:30
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.., posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 14:36:35
According to the tianeptine theory of depression, there is such a thing as elevated serotonin.
Infact, tianeptine shows much more rubust effects on the HPA axis that do SSRI's. It is also more neuroprotective.
Linkadge
Posted by flmm on December 10, 2005, at 15:49:46
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.., posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 14:14:44
Funny, I never slept worth a lick until I started ssri meds. Now, never slept better in years, still going strong, after 5 years of ssri meds!
By the way, I have experience with pcp and lsd, and you sir (Lexapro) are not that! Outragous!
Posted by flmm on December 10, 2005, at 15:53:58
In reply to *DON'T MISS THIS* - Listen to Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.., posted by ReadersLeaders on December 10, 2005, at 1:26:01
By the way, if I had a dollar for every quack out there selling some crap tape or bogus cure, I would be richer than Bill Gates! Another predator praying on peoples weakness! Makes me sick!
Posted by flmm on December 10, 2005, at 16:09:13
In reply to Re: *DON'T MISS THIS* - Quack!.., posted by flmm on December 10, 2005, at 15:53:58
Just because ssri meds do not help everyone, does not mean they don't have great value. They do bring great relief to many who take them. Are they perfect, no, but what is. For me and a lot of people it is the best way to live. There is no magic bullet. The world is full success stories and meds, the rest reside on sites like this..........
Posted by 10derHeart on December 10, 2005, at 16:09:40
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » ReadersLeaders, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 11:22:45
Thanks, Lar, for the work you put into this post.
I could probably comment on each one if I thought that would be wise or in any way helpful, but it wouldn't be, so I won't. In this very bright group, it pretty much speaks for itself anyway.
But wow, numbers 10 and 15 are particularly appalling to me personally, albeit for different reasons.
Posted by jamestheyonger on December 10, 2005, at 16:20:07
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.., posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 14:36:35
> "Elevated serotonin is not the problem, because there is no such condition."
>
> Elevated serotonin is implicated in a number of conditions. If you visited the Buspar website a year ago, it would have told you that anxiety is related to elevated serotonin.
>Beware of simplistic explanations for complex processes
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 17:05:09
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » Larry Hoover, posted by 10derHeart on December 10, 2005, at 16:09:40
> Thanks, Lar, for the work you put into this post.
You're most welcome, Th. <sweeping bow>
> I could probably comment on each one if I thought that would be wise or in any way helpful, but it wouldn't be, so I won't. In this very bright group, it pretty much speaks for itself anyway.
Don't fear us. 'Kay?
> But wow, numbers 10 and 15 are particularly appalling to me personally, albeit for different reasons.
You know, when I collected these, I actually was thinking just that. That certain ones would strike different people. I didn't stop collecting because I ran out of her quotations, though. I simply stopped. And I've never yet opened one of her books.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 17:10:55
In reply to Re: What!, posted by flmm on December 10, 2005, at 15:49:46
> By the way, I have experience with pcp and lsd, and you sir (Lexapro) are not that! Outragous!
I, too, have experience with both drugs, and the allegations are preposterous. The pharmacology of the drugs are as different as chalk and cheese.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 17:32:08
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.., posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 14:36:35
> "Elevated serotonin is not the problem, because there is no such condition."
>
> Elevated serotonin is implicated in a number of conditions. If you visited the Buspar website a year ago, it would have told you that anxiety is related to elevated serotonin.Excepting serotonin syndrome, no demonstrated condition of excess serotonin is known.
Your brain just doesn't work that way, like there is a reservoir with serotonin in it, that can get over full. Or that there is too much on the loose. It is a simplistic concept, with no physiological correlate.
> There is a lot of research that shows that anxiety may actually be related to high serotonin levels.
Not high serotonin levels. High activity at specific serotonin receptors.
> Serotonin can be anxiogenic.
And anxiolytic. Depends on the receptor.
> Hence the SSRI start up anxiety,
or somnolence.
> and GI effects that don't go away for many people.
5-HT7 receptor subtype, not due to serotonin per se. Serotonin agonism by drug.
> Hinting that high serotonin leads to agression is not unfounded. Many doctors have noted that artificially increasing serotonin can lead to emotional indifference. Studies on animals sometimes show similar results, ie. MAO-A knockout mice are unusally agressive.MAO-A is not specific to serotonin. Flooding the brain with free serotonin does not mimic any known physiological process.
> "Serotonin is a precursor to melatonin, so how could it suppress melatonin? What is premature aging? She cannot bring these ideas into a coherent whole. "
>
> I don't know, you tell me.It's her theory.
> Most of the SSRI's decrease melatonin concentrations. Infact, melatonin administration reduces the antidepressant effect of fluoxetine. In the night time melatonin levels are at their highest, and serotonin levels drop. SSRI's supress melatonin production via agonism at the 5-ht2a receptors.
Then that is not a serotonin effect. It's a drug toxic effect.
> The 2a blocking antidepressants tend to increase melatonin production.
Again, conflating drug effect with endogenous agent effect.
> Lowering melatonin levels will lead to premature aging.?? What is premature aging?
> The connection to LSD is also not unfounded. I experienced visual halucinations on SSRI's.I'm sorry that happened, but LSD is quite a different drug.
> A number of other people on this board have too.
I'm sorry that's happened.
> Prozac seems to have the highest propensity to do this, since it seems to more strongly agonize the 5-ht2a receptor, via 5-h2c blockade.
I try to stay away from these mechanistic arguments, because they require that you believe the premise to believe the conclusion. Petitio principii.
> She is attempting to make these connections, so that we have a basis for understaning the kind of behavior that they can produce.She doesn't make those arguments. You did.
Here's an example I just heard her say, in that interview:
SSRIs are likely to produce a "gummy gooey glossy substance on heart valves". That sure sounds scientific. She goes on to declare that Alzheimer's is a hyperserotonergic state, and that "the same gummy gooey glossy deposits are found at autopsy". In the very next breath, she argues that SSRIs are prophecied in the Bible, and I just stopped listening at that point.
> I have what I call APPD, "antidepressant induced perceptual disorder"
>
> LinkadgeI'm sorry it's been such a hard road, link.
Please try to separate from the emotional appeals, with seemingly plausible arguments, based on zero evidence. The woman scares me.
Lar
Posted by Phillipa on December 10, 2005, at 19:18:40
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 17:32:08
And I was about to believe what she said! What about this years flu shot and the mercury? This is something I have heard from mother's of children with autism. That innoculations containsed mercury. And their children were fine until the innoculations. At this point I don't know what to believe. So is she saying that because I take luvox I am taking PCP? Boy this woman is confusing me. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 20:17:01
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » Larry Hoover, posted by Phillipa on December 10, 2005, at 19:18:40
> And I was about to believe what she said! What about this years flu shot and the mercury?
There is not enough mercury in a flu shot to cause any concern. You get more mercury from your amalgam fillings every time you drink a hot beverage. If mercury worries you, take selenium. It binds mercury permanently, ending any health threat. End of story.
> This is something I have heard from mother's of children with autism. That innoculations containsed mercury. And their children were fine until the innoculations.
Coincidental correlation. The supposedly offending innoculation, the MMP, is usually given at about 18 months of age. Autism spectrum disorders are usually diagnosed no earlier than around the 24th month. It's natural for human brains to say A caused B, when in fact, B simply followed A.
If you look at massive epidemiological studies of all children in Denmark (where they record everything about everybody), there is no evidence to support a link. They stopped using Thimerosal (mercury-preservative) vaccines in 1990, and autism rates continued to climb. Abstracts, and full-text link, at bottom.
I'm sorry for anyone having to deal with developmental disorders like autism, but innoculations are not to blame. In fact, there is not one single medical advance of greater benefit to mankind than innoculation. Seen any child in an iron lung lately (polio), or dying from heart failure (rheumatic fever), or deaf or blind from meningitis? Well, you will, if people don't start innoculating their precious children again.
> At this point I don't know what to believe.
I trust the science, myself. Child mortality used to be 50%. It's not, any longer.
> So is she saying that because I take luvox I am taking PCP?
That's what she's saying you're as good as doing, yes.
> Boy this woman is confusing me.
She scares me. That anybody might listen.
> Fondly, Phillipa
Lar
Abstracts re: lack of association between thimerosal and autism
JAMA. 2003 Oct 1;290(13):1763-6.
Association between thimerosal-containing vaccine and autism.Hviid A, Stellfeld M, Wohlfahrt J, Melbye M.
Danish Epidemiology Science Centre, Department of Epidemiology Research, Statens Serum Institut, Copenhagen, Denmark. aii@ssi.dk
CONTEXT: Mercuric compounds are nephrotoxic and neurotoxic at high doses. Thimerosal, a preservative used widely in vaccine formulations, contains ethylmercury. Thus it has been suggested that childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccine could be causally related to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism. OBJECTIVE: To determine whether vaccination with a thimerosal-containing vaccine is associated with development of autism. DESIGN, SETTING, AND PARTICIPANTS: Population-based cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1, 1990, until December 31, 1996 (N = 467 450) comparing children vaccinated with a thimerosal-containing vaccine with children vaccinated with a thimerosal-free formulation of the same vaccine. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Rate ratio (RR) for autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders, including trend with dose of ethylmercury. RESULTS: During 2 986 654 person-years, we identified 440 autism cases and 787 cases of other autistic-spectrum disorders. The risk of autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders did not differ significantly between children vaccinated with thimerosal-containing vaccine and children vaccinated with thimerosal-free vaccine (RR, 0.85 [95% confidence interval [CI], 0.60-1.20] for autism; RR, 1.12 [95% CI, 0.88-1.43] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). Furthermore, we found no evidence of a dose-response association (increase in RR per 25 microg of ethylmercury, 0.98 [95% CI, 0.90-1.06] for autism and 1.03 [95% CI, 0.98-1.09] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). CONCLUSION: The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.
Pediatrics. 2003 Sep;112(3 Pt 1):604-6.
full-text link: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/112/3/604
Thimerosal and the occurrence of autism: negative ecological evidence from Danish population-based data.Madsen KM, Lauritsen MB, Pedersen CB, Thorsen P, Plesner AM, Andersen PH, Mortensen PB.
Danish Epidemiology Science Centre, Department of Epidemiology and Social Medicine, University of Aarhus, Denmark. kmm@dadlnet.dk
OBJECTIVE: It has been suggested that thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative in vaccines, is a risk factor for the development of autism. We examined whether discontinuing the use of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark led to a decrease in the incidence of autism. DESIGN: Analysis of data from the Danish Psychiatric Central Research Register recording all psychiatric admissions since 1971, and all outpatient contacts in psychiatric departments in Denmark since 1995. PATIENTS: All children between 2 and 10 years old who were diagnosed with autism during the period from 1971-2000. OUTCOME MEASURES: Annual and age-specific incidence for first day of first recorded admission with a diagnosis of autism in children between 2 and 10 years old. RESULTS: A total of 956 children with a male-to-female ratio of 3.5:1 had been diagnosed with autism during the period from 1971-2000. There was no trend toward an increase in the incidence of autism during that period when thimerosal was used in Denmark, up through 1990. From 1991 until 2000 the incidence increased and continued to rise after the removal of thimerosal from vaccines, including increases among children born after the discontinuation of thimerosal. CONCLUSIONS: The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an increase in the incidence of autism. Our ecological data do not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and the incidence of autism.
Posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 20:25:08
In reply to Re: What! » flmm, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 17:10:55
SSRI's can act as potent agonists of the 5-ht2 receptor complex systmem.
Doesn't anybody recall me, posting last year about how celexa made the railroad crossing bars look like soldiers about to attack me.
I started to smile back at the car faces since they looked too human to resist.
Visual disortions on SSRI's are more common than you may think.
Wasn't it spriggy who also had visual halucinations as a result of SSRIs ?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 21:07:06
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 17:32:08
>Excepting serotonin syndrome, no demonstrated >condition of excess serotonin is known.
High serotonin *is* implicated in many disorders. From migrane to anorexia. It just depends on who you talk to, and what research you read. Have you not read some of the actual findings relating depression and the SERT transporter?
Apparently, people with the short-short varient of the serotonin transporter have a "higher" lifetime risk of depression. The short-short varient of the serotonin gene codes for a lower reputake of serotonin. These people demonstrate higher levels of serotonin due to this varient in the serotonin transpoter.But please, don't just believe me. Read this link.
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001611.html
The SERT transporter is the enzyme that SSRI drugs work to inhibit. Here is direct evidence, linking *low* activity of the serotonin transporter, to depression, and binge drinking.
So I restate. Some research shows that high serotonin is implicated in certain disease states.
>Not high serotonin levels. High activity at >specific serotonin receptors.Just like schizophrenia may be related to high dopamine at certiain receptors, right ? Although, I don't know of too many people immune to stimulant psychosis.
>And anxiolytic. Depends on the receptor.
You are right, but for many, the net effect of taking an SSRI, is not anxiolytic.
>MAO-A is not specific to serotonin. Flooding the >brain with free serotonin does not mimic any >known physiological process.
Taking LSD, doesn't mimic any physiological process. I don't know what you are trying to say?
>Then that is not a serotonin effect. It's a drug >toxic effect.
Thats exactly it. Breggin coined it, not me. "Brain disabling treatments". Rember, I am referring to SSRI's.
Like I said, taking melatonin with fluoxetine largely nullifies the antidepressant responce. That is because, it restors sleep, and does not let the drug interfere with sleep cycles to create its effect. SSRI's simply mimic the antidepressant effects of sleep deprivation.
?? What is premature aging?Lets not be difficult. I think there was an X-Files on it.
>I'm sorry that happened, but LSD is quite a >different drug.There are many similarities, and I am not the first to notice, or propose that.
>I try to stay away from these mechanistic >arguments, because they require that you believe >the premise to believe the conclusion. Petitio >principii.It's quite simple. The higher the functional agonism at 5-ht2a receptors. The higher the probability of visual disturbances as a side effect.
>She doesn't make those arguments. You did.No, I didn't make that connection. She has made it her job to try and explain some of the behaviors that have resulted from the use of the drugs. I am to suppose that her attemps to liken the effects of SSRI's to that of harsher drugs has no relavance to this?
>In the very next breath, she argues that SSRIs >are prophecied in the Bible, and I just stopped >listening at that point.
I would stop listening too. But that doesn't mean I would throw the baby out with the bathwater. It is too bad that the sensationalists are the only ones who get the attention. Goodness knows there are more sensable people saying the same thing.
>Please try to separate from the emotional >appeals, with seemingly plausible arguments, >based on zero evidence. The woman scares me.
Zero evidence? Now that is kind of talk scares me.
Linakdge
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 21:07:28
In reply to Re: What!, posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 20:25:08
> Visual disortions on SSRI's are more common than you may think.
Or, perhaps less common than do you? I don't know.
Really, this is not the way to try and understand this better. I find only a single paper with a case report (no abstract) in my search of Pubmed, and only non-specific reference as an infrequent occurrence (defined as occurring in less than 1%), in a few drug monographs.
I've had visual disturbances from pharmaceutical drugs, and there was no resemblence to hallucinogens (mescaline, LSD), despite the fact that hallucination might be used to describe the occurrence.
I want to emphasize, link, I'm not trying to argue that there aren't problems with these drugs. I have a problem with (not a doctor of medicine but philosophy) Ann Blake Tracy.
Lar
Posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 21:16:57
In reply to Re: What! » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 21:07:28
For goodness sake. England thought enough of the data connecting SSRI's to suicidal behavior to make significant changes to their prescribing habits for SSRI's in children.
Linkadge
Posted by spriggy on December 10, 2005, at 22:26:20
In reply to Re: What!, posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 21:16:57
I'm glad to know I am not alone.I only hallucinated one time in my life (as a kid with strep throat and HIGh fever) until I went on Lexapro.
I had a visual hallucination (actually two of them) while on Lexapro.
I saw a banner hanging from my ceiling that read " HOMEWORK." I actually stood up on my couch to remove the banner when I found out it wasn't even there..
Then, once laying in bed, I asked my husband to turn off the bright neon green lights behind our door-- to which he replied, " HUH?" in a very panicked tone! Because of course, there was no green neon light!
THEN.. I actually sat on my couch and audibly heard a full marching band come through my living room.
I completely tripped/wigged out on SSRI. I doubt I WILL EVER try anything in that family again because of how bad my experience was.
Posted by spriggy on December 10, 2005, at 22:33:33
In reply to Re: Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.. » Phillipa, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2005, at 20:17:01
Sorry Lar, I appreciate you so much (and think you are wonderfuL). Although I will be the first to confess I don't know nearly half as much as you do..
I DO know for certain what I watched/saw with my own eyes happen to my own child.
COMPLETELY normal child; all medical records show he was fine.
Received his vaccines ( 5 in one day). He ran 102 fever, chronic diarrhea, dehydrated, had to be hospitalized... He stopped speaking, waving, smiling.. in a nutshell my son stopped completely!
Found out through vaccine records that he received over 60 micrograms of mercury that day- he weighed 23 pounds. Do you think that is within the EPA's safety limit for exposure??
Nope.
My son was bombarded with a neurotoxin before he turned 2.
And oddly enough, when we began the process of removing mercury (chelation) he began to speak.
Strange coincidence?
Posted by jamestheyonger on December 10, 2005, at 22:58:46
In reply to Okay about autism and mercury.., posted by spriggy on December 10, 2005, at 22:33:33
Most vaccines no longer contain Thimerosal, the source of Mercury:
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm#1.
Given the huge number of people vaccinated in the past why do not more have autisim ? Common
contact lens solutions contain Thimerosal amoung other products. Many vaccines never contained Thimerosal and today most do not. There have been allergic reactions to Thimerosal.http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
There is a strong genetic link in Autisim, it seem there is a hig corralation to having some genes and Autisim:
Posted by willyee on December 10, 2005, at 23:32:22
In reply to *DON'T MISS THIS* - Listen to Dr. Tracy on SSRIs.., posted by ReadersLeaders on December 10, 2005, at 1:26:01
Its so easy to find flaws with the drugs we have,and so easy to make what your selling look like a miracle cure,BUT the reason we tolerate any of these drugs is because mostly everything else is snake oil,this group here is gonna catch anything effective,it wont last long without being discovered,thats why i pass by here.
Lets not forget these drugs are crossing into the brain and altering it,but we choose to accept this as it does benifit a lot of people.
Im sick of theorys,hers vs pro ssris,when i personaly feel the truth lays way deep in a part of the brain we just cant examine yet.We run test,and see all these imbalances of a depressed person to a non-depressed person,but ive seen imbalances of chemicals,nutrients,aminos nuerons ,brain wave activity and so on,.......i think all this leads us to is the finalaztion we all know,a depressed persons brain is not functioning at optimal levels,and does it surprise anyone that if examined the end result of that wont be a very ubalanced brain,inlcuding all various type of unbalances?
She isnt who she says,and that i dont think is fair,to imply her credittanials are more than they are to evoke scare tactics which is what she is doing,scare tactics to ever so lightly promote herself and products.
I have a lot of articles that show collegage studies done one after another showing MAJOR differecnes,imbalances of inhibitory amino acid ratios to stimulatory ones in depressed/non depressed people.Certain ones constantly showed up greatly imblanced,glutamtic acid,taurine etc .Anyone who really has a good clue on whats going on i believe the average person here will not even be able to talk to,they will talk real scieance and leave us scratching our head,not talk about serotion constantly,its already known ssris affect dopamine etc as well.
There are only a few peopl here i believe can have a true understanding of that kind of scieance,exlcuding myself and many people here we need to understand the brain is simply not simple,its complex and treating it is not gonna be easy ever.I dont know im ramling,but how many people have to try and steal from us when we are down and out,to make money off this disease u have to have a rotten black soul.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 11, 2005, at 10:14:54
In reply to Re: What!, posted by linkadge on December 10, 2005, at 21:16:57
> For goodness sake. England thought enough of the data connecting SSRI's to suicidal behavior to make significant changes to their prescribing habits for SSRI's in children.
>
> LinkadgeThat was a precautionary act, due to lack of safety data. The recommendation was for closer monitoring, something I also have long advocated, both for adults and children.
Just last month, a major report was tabled.
Neuropsychopharmacology advance online publication 23 November 2005;
doi:10.1038/sj.npp.1300958ACNP Task Force Report on SSRIs and Suicidal Behavior in Youth
Conclusion:
The Task Force concluded that SSRIs and other new generation antidepressant drugs, in aggregate, are associated with a small increase in the risk of AE reports of suicidal thinking or suicide attempts in youth. The evidence for this comes from the FDA meta-analyses of all pediatric RCTs of antidepressants. This effect is quite variable across SSRIs and it is not clear if that variance is a measurement error or represents a real difference between medications. Systematic questionnaire data do not identify a risk for more suicidal ideation on SSRIs, raising concerns over ascertainment artifacts in the AE report method. Three other lines of evidence in youth, epidemiology, and autopsy studies, and recent cohort surveys (Valuck et al, 2004; Simon et al, 2005), do not support the hypothesis that SSRIs induce suicidal acts and suicide, instead indicating a possible beneficial effect, and that a negligible number of youth suicides are taking antidepressants at the time of death.
I did a similar review some months ago, and came to an identical set of conclusions. Adverse event reporting in clinical trials falsely suggested suicidal acts were occurring, due to systematic methodological deficiencies. Autopsy data do not support the theory that SSRIs contribute to youth suicide. In fact, net reductions have been clearly demonstrated.
Lar
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