![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8722 to 8746 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by corafree on June 10, 2005, at 13:44:24
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by MtnMama on June 10, 2005, at 12:26:30
Hi .. You too also sound like you're feeling totally overwhelmed. Sometimes you have to get yourself 'admitted somehow' to a hospital. It's sad, but usually it takes 'suicidal tendencies' to get attention. Most Ps I've known won't even discuss helping you down to 'natural, non-synthetic alternatives'. But, some, PCPs/MDs are a little more open to discussing the option. Of course, if you've got the funds, you can go directly to a holistic doc', which was never an option for me. I have not been on babble long enough to give you much more advice. Personally, I had been on ADs so long that I have to remain on medication the rest of my life. But, I'm not on ADs anymore ... I'm on mood stabilizers. Another thing that has helped me has been my GYN doc ... raging or 'not enough' correct female hormones. Then there are your thyroid hormones, which for a lot of people here seem to be low. I am on daily dose of generic thyroid hormone which has helped. I hope you will get some more answers and options here. There are a lot of good people here to talk to and give you their opinions. Check the Withdrawal posts. Stay close to whomever gives you the most support. best wishes, cf
Posted by corafree on June 10, 2005, at 13:54:58
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » MtnMama, posted by SLS on June 10, 2005, at 13:29:44
SLS -
Yes, ... you make sense about 'synthetic' ... because all things really do begin with something REAL, I believe.
Why do you chose not to babble?
best wishes, cf
Posted by Elroy on June 10, 2005, at 16:52:08
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » MtnMama, posted by SLS on June 10, 2005, at 13:29:44
Excellent response. Possibly staying on the medication - or one of effective response - is exactly what one's body is calling for???
Also, there might be certain deficiencies - or excesses - involved with the body that still need to be addressed??? In other words, the medication was a stop gap measure to help with that deficiency or excess, but the bottom line "problem" still hasn't been addressed??
As an example, if someone has a serotonin deficiency, an SSRI medication should be greatly helpful, but really isn't increasing the serotonin levels (whereas supplementation with tryptophan / 5HTP would / should increase those levels).
Also, if there is a traumatic issue or stress situation behind the cause of the problem, it's likely that talk therapy, etc. (I personally am a big fan of EMDR) would be needed to correct the "core problem" prior to halting medications.
Or maybe it's a situation where one's HPA Axis has become dysfunctional and they are producing excessive cortisol. Excessive cortisol problems are directly involved in a significant number of anxiety and severe depression situations. The excessive cortisol actually "creates" (or "manufacturers") anxiety and severe depression... so getting the cortisol lowered and the HPA Axis re-set is vital to be able to successfully withdraw from medications that are being helpful (IMHO anyway!).
Elroy
X
X
X
X> Hi there.
>
> It is only natural to reject the idea of being tethered to a drug and dependent on it to function properly.
>
> So you say you'd like to discontinue Effexor? There is a separate board dedicated to the discontinuation of medication and how to go about it. I use a flexible dosing method. Some people switch over to Prozac temporarily because it is easier to discontinue.
>
> You might experience a rebound depressive episode when you discontinue Effexor too fast. In other words, you might experience a brief episode of depression that lasts a few days, then recover. However, if the trend is for the depression to get worse instead of better after you have been off of Effexor for a few weeks, it will be apparant that you still need some sort of supportive intervention.
>
> There is no shame or character weakness to have to rely on medication to treat clinical depression. The brain gets stuck in a state of dysregulation, whether it be driven by the stress of psychological issues or in the absence of any stress at all. If you could think your way out of it on your own, you would have by now.
>
> There is one thing to take into consideration when discontinuing an effective medication. Sometimes, after an extended period of not being medicated, the same drug is no longer effective. I can't provide you with any statistics, but the numbers are high. Be careful in your consideration of which directions you would like to take in your treatment. You might find the "Alterative" board here to be of help in defining "natural remedies"
>
> Remember, modern pharmacology has its roots in the use of plants and animals as treatments. Ask yourself, what is "natural". I sometimes like to point out that it is the natural process of the evolution of man that he should learn how to cultivate wheat and use what is found in nature to synthesize the chemical compounds that are now used as medical treatments.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2005, at 18:01:14
In reply to Please don't take Effexor- it kills, posted by jubilee on June 9, 2005, at 11:33:49
> it kills
> its quickly addicting.
Please don't exaggerate or overgeneralize.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2005, at 18:01:46
In reply to Re: Please don't take Effexor- it kills, posted by latina10 on June 9, 2005, at 14:46:38
> did u ween urself of the effexor.
Sorry if it's confusing here, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding going off Effexor to Psycho-Babble Withdrawal. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20050519/msgs/510687.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2005, at 18:02:03
In reply to Re: Please don't take Effexor- it kills, posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2005, at 17:31:59
> There is a Thread on Effexor that deals with the lawsuit.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding lawsuits to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050116/msgs/445808.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on June 10, 2005, at 18:06:59
In reply to Redirect: lawsuits, posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2005, at 18:02:03
Thanks Dr. Bob, I tried to find it but couldn't. Wanted to be of some help if that's what the poster wanted. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Sabino on June 10, 2005, at 20:42:31
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by corafree on June 10, 2005, at 13:44:24
Cora, just curious, what mood stabilizer are you taking? I want to consider starting one on my next visit. I was thinking of Neurontin.
I have a fast metabolism, and even though I take Effexor XR, I dose 3 times daily. I'm up to 225 mgs for the last 3 days. I'm on day 43 in total.
I'm feeling some benefit, especially since I upped to 225, but I burn through it so fast, I sometimes wonder if that is not ultra fast cycling. I suspect it's just a super fast metabolism. Still, I'd like to give a mood stabilizer a try. I think it couldn't hurt. Was it you that used to dose multiple times a day?
Anybody have any thoughts on whether I should try Neurontin, or Depakote, or Lamictal? My Pdoc is pretty cool, and if I come to him with a suggestion that is reasonable, he's usually amenable to giving it a go.
> Hi .. You too also sound like you're feeling totally overwhelmed. Sometimes you have to get yourself 'admitted somehow' to a hospital. It's sad, but usually it takes 'suicidal tendencies' to get attention. Most Ps I've known won't even discuss helping you down to 'natural, non-synthetic alternatives'. But, some, PCPs/MDs are a little more open to discussing the option. Of course, if you've got the funds, you can go directly to a holistic doc', which was never an option for me. I have not been on babble long enough to give you much more advice. Personally, I had been on ADs so long that I have to remain on medication the rest of my life. But, I'm not on ADs anymore ... I'm on mood stabilizers. Another thing that has helped me has been my GYN doc ... raging or 'not enough' correct female hormones. Then there are your thyroid hormones, which for a lot of people here seem to be low. I am on daily dose of generic thyroid hormone which has helped. I hope you will get some more answers and options here. There are a lot of good people here to talk to and give you their opinions. Check the Withdrawal posts. Stay close to whomever gives you the most support. best wishes, cf
Posted by corafree on June 10, 2005, at 22:09:45
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » corafree, posted by Sabino on June 10, 2005, at 20:42:31
Yep, I had to take two doses of Eff-XR a day, ... I metabolized so fast that late midday I would need another dose; I would feel the anxiety breaking through otherwise.
It was 'something to do w/ my Dad passing' that threw me into a frightening nervous breakdown earlier this year.
When in hospital, never having clear symptoms of bipolar, I revolted when they suggested mood stabilizers .. but then gave in, after they agreed w/ me and another P, to allow the long-acting benzo, Valium, instead of all the short-acting ones I had taken for so long. Needing anxiety relief was one of my main reasons for being on Effexor-XR as long as I was, and even w/ it, I still needed benzo help for anxiety.
I'm on Seroquel (two docs have said has less bad side effects than lithium or Depakote), taken only at bedtime for sleep and just 50-100 mg. I began on up to 200mg for sleep and also 25mg morn and 25mg noon. I lowered the bedtime amount. I axed the daytime doses as were too sedating. W/ the lowered amount, I'm not having a voraciously obscene appetite, bloated stomach, and am less fatigued.
And, the other one is Trileptal, 300mg morn and 300mg dinnertime. There is no sleepiness w/ it and like Neurontin, the amount of 300mg x2 a day is low.
I have been on Neurontin for back pain in the past when still on Effexor-XR, but only a maybe 200mg dose twice a day (I believe both this and Trileptal go up to like 2000mg or maybe more.) so did not notice any mood stabilization.
I think my co-pay was too high. Yes, that was the reason for the low dose and finally quitting it! Yep, I remember now, Value Options (my State plan) wouldn't put Neurontin on their formulary and I don't know if it is on the formulary now or not. I do know that Topamax is not, which is unfortunate, as I've heard good things about it!
Yep, I am hypomanic or bipolar II, if bipolar at all. The docs in the hospital had quite a time convincing me to try mood stabilizers! My dx matches borderline than bipolar. Racing thoughts was about all I could identify in the bipolar symptoms. But, in further talking w/ the docs and some other patients there, they are also treating borderline with mood stabilizers.
I tried Lamictal, when still on Effexor-XR, don't remember dosage, but I am thinking maybe it brought on headaches.
bestwishes, cf
Posted by linkadge on June 11, 2005, at 3:29:00
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Sabino, posted by corafree on June 10, 2005, at 22:09:45
Effexor helped the anxiety in some ways, but it didn't help me get to the root of the problem. In many ways, the side effects, and other neurological symptoms it created actually prevented me from making the best decisions for myself. It really did a number on my cognition, sleep and motivation which ended up making the anxiety worse.
First eat the best you can, then exercise, then take as few meds to get the symptoms under control. Then work with a counseller to improve the situation for the future.
What I found was that the meds almost forced me to let go of the future. This is great, but I found myself walking into many situations unprepared because of the fact that I was "letting go" of everything on effexor.
Oftentimes the doctors will want you on 10 times the amount that quells the symptoms in order to "prevent relapse", but I think that the lowest effective dose will prevent relapse more because then you've always got that psychological barganing chip that you can increase the dose if neccessary.
Linkadge
Posted by Sabino on June 11, 2005, at 8:54:31
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Sabino, posted by corafree on June 10, 2005, at 22:09:45
Thanks Cora. I suspect I'll ask for Neurontin or Trileptal to see if that'll help smooth out my Effexor experience.
As far as AD's go, Effexor has the fewest side effects of them all for me so far. Today is my third day on 225, so maybe I'll see some side effects for another day or two. I usually get them from days 2 thru 5 or so on a new dose.
I've been depressed for a very long time. This was seeming like a last ditch effort. I've been taking Effexor XR for 6 and a half weeks now.
Anyway, thanks for the info. Are you well and in remission these days?
Posted by corafree on June 11, 2005, at 17:19:49
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » corafree, posted by Sabino on June 11, 2005, at 8:54:31
Well? Yes! I feel more satisfaction .. with me, my life, what I have done (good and bad), and what I hope to do. I have not had any suicidal ideation! I guess you could call it remission. Thanks for asking, cf
p.s. We were talking about metabolization earlier and I couldn't get it off my mind, so am going to post 'Metabolization Question', I guess under social ... usually post there when it doesn't seem to fit a particular category.
Posted by TinMan on June 11, 2005, at 18:15:58
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by redjr on May 18, 2005, at 8:54:16
I am in the middle of switching from Paxil to Effexor XR. A few months ago, a psychiatrist gave me a prescription for Remeron 15 mg. I am still a little groggy in the mornings from it, but for the first time in quite a while (years), I sleep the whole night. I tried Ambien and it didn't help. So Remeron, to me, is a Godsend. It turns my brain off at night so I can sleep.
I have read the posts on Effexor XR and alcohol. While on Paxil, I drank a lot more than I ever have in my entire life. And I behaved badly while drinking and on Paxil. I am not looking for a scapegoat or release of responsibility for my bad behavior, no. I do find it interesting that others have experienced the same thing. (I am not alone in this!)
So far, the Effexor XR side effects are not bothersome and withdrawing from the Paxil has not been noticeable. I did have a headache for about 24 hours but that could not even be related.
Thanks for your posts.
Posted by Maxime on June 13, 2005, at 1:24:55
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Sabino, posted by corafree on June 11, 2005, at 17:19:49
I was on it for almost a year at 300 mg and it did a great job. But then as most anti-depressants do with me, it started to poop out. So my pdoc raised it to 375 mg and it made me hypomanic so I eventually. Unlike the majority of people here, I had no problems coming off the med. I did it slowly and suffered no ill effects. I went right to Prozac after that.
Maxime
> Well? Yes! I feel more satisfaction .. with me, my life, what I have done (good and bad), and what I hope to do. I have not had any suicidal ideation! I guess you could call it remission. Thanks for asking, cf
>
> p.s. We were talking about metabolization earlier and I couldn't get it off my mind, so am going to post 'Metabolization Question', I guess under social ... usually post there when it doesn't seem to fit a particular category.
Posted by haddsl on June 13, 2005, at 15:45:16
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by TinMan on June 11, 2005, at 18:15:58
I know what you are saying. I have been on Effexor XR for about a month now. And I have had no side effects to date. So far so good. The only thing I have noticed is not sleeping as well, and I have no tast for alcohol anymore. I used to drink a lot and then quite, and then I would just drink occasionally with friends and at parties. Now it is almost like I am always just "not in the mood" for alcohol. Strange, not that I mind, but strange.
- haddsl
> I am in the middle of switching from Paxil to Effexor XR. A few months ago, a psychiatrist gave me a prescription for Remeron 15 mg. I am still a little groggy in the mornings from it, but for the first time in quite a while (years), I sleep the whole night. I tried Ambien and it didn't help. So Remeron, to me, is a Godsend. It turns my brain off at night so I can sleep.
>
> I have read the posts on Effexor XR and alcohol. While on Paxil, I drank a lot more than I ever have in my entire life. And I behaved badly while drinking and on Paxil. I am not looking for a scapegoat or release of responsibility for my bad behavior, no. I do find it interesting that others have experienced the same thing. (I am not alone in this!)
>
> So far, the Effexor XR side effects are not bothersome and withdrawing from the Paxil has not been noticeable. I did have a headache for about 24 hours but that could not even be related.
>
> Thanks for your posts.
Posted by Phillipa on June 13, 2005, at 17:17:42
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Maxime on June 13, 2005, at 1:24:55
Hey wait a minute I used to drink a lot while on l0mg of paxil. Drank 5-6 beers every night or white wine. But I started that before paxil. Stopped when chloral hydrate was added. Had to or it would have been a mickey finn. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by sastamour on June 14, 2005, at 15:56:10
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! , posted by Shel on July 18, 2000, at 1:35:45
I started Effexor XR 75mg 4 days ago and feel terrible. Tired, sleeping all the time day and night, no appetite, some nausea. Does anyone know if this will go away and when?
Posted by TinMan on June 14, 2005, at 18:05:39
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by sastamour on June 14, 2005, at 15:56:10
I have been on Effexor XR for over one week. Now I am up to 150 mg from 75 mg. Not tired at all but feel a little wired. No naseau - instead, I am hungry all the time. Starting to notice that things don't bother me at all; kinda of a "I really don't care" attitude. Off of the Paxil completely w/o side effects except I like red wine again and in very moderate consumption (!)
Interesting how different drugs affect different people.
Living in Oz,
TinMan
Posted by corafree on June 14, 2005, at 21:20:01
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » SLS, posted by Elroy on June 10, 2005, at 16:52:08
Hi Elroy -
Multiple trauma in my life!!! Could talk a year about these experiences ... and really wonder if my mind is so powerful that I can 'undo' fright, fear, learned behavior.
I am interested in learning more about EMDR. I do find DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy - in case someone else doesn't know what I mean) only helped me a little bit, and it was intensive for six months.
When you said ...
'Or maybe it's a situation where one's HPA Axis has become dysfunctional and they are producing excessive cortisol. Excessive cortisol problems are directly involved in a significant number of anxiety and severe depression situations. The excessive cortisol actually "creates" (or "manufacturers") anxiety and severe depression... so getting the cortisol lowered and the HPA Axis re-set is vital to be able to successfully withdraw from medications that are being helpful (IMHO anyway!).'
... you really lost me! What are you saying here? I'm interested; but it's over my head!
Tks, cf
Posted by Elroy on June 14, 2005, at 22:35:46
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Elroy, posted by corafree on June 14, 2005, at 21:20:01
As it is quite a bit off topic, can you Babblemail me and I can directly reply to you - and the info on it is somewhat more extensive (links, etc.).
I think that this community will find that elevated cortisol treatments will be one of the major advances in this decade in treating mental disorders.
In some cases it will affect a cure on its own while in other cases one will find that treatment resisitant cases now become quickly treatable.
Elroy
> Hi Elroy -
>
> Multiple trauma in my life!!! Could talk a year about these experiences ... and really wonder if my mind is so powerful that I can 'undo' fright, fear, learned behavior.
>
> I am interested in learning more about EMDR. I do find DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy - in case someone else doesn't know what I mean) only helped me a little bit, and it was intensive for six months.
>
> When you said ...
>
> 'Or maybe it's a situation where one's HPA Axis has become dysfunctional and they are producing excessive cortisol. Excessive cortisol problems are directly involved in a significant number of anxiety and severe depression situations. The excessive cortisol actually "creates" (or "manufacturers") anxiety and severe depression... so getting the cortisol lowered and the HPA Axis re-set is vital to be able to successfully withdraw from medications that are being helpful (IMHO anyway!).'
>
> ... you really lost me! What are you saying here? I'm interested; but it's over my head!
>
> Tks, cf
>
Posted by Elroy on June 14, 2005, at 22:39:12
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Elroy, posted by corafree on June 14, 2005, at 21:20:01
Also, are you familiar with EMDR? I would go to RemedyFind.com web page and do a search for EMDR". There are some postings there from some users (no, I have yet to get my review posted there - shame on me). And I believe that there's at least one link to an organization or two with search engines on their sites where you can search for a certified therapist in your area... plus do a lot better job at explaining it than I could....
> Hi Elroy -
>
> Multiple trauma in my life!!! Could talk a year about these experiences ... and really wonder if my mind is so powerful that I can 'undo' fright, fear, learned behavior.
>
> I am interested in learning more about EMDR. I do find DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy - in case someone else doesn't know what I mean) only helped me a little bit, and it was intensive for six months.
>
> When you said ...
>
> 'Or maybe it's a situation where one's HPA Axis has become dysfunctional and they are producing excessive cortisol. Excessive cortisol problems are directly involved in a significant number of anxiety and severe depression situations. The excessive cortisol actually "creates" (or "manufacturers") anxiety and severe depression... so getting the cortisol lowered and the HPA Axis re-set is vital to be able to successfully withdraw from medications that are being helpful (IMHO anyway!).'
>
> ... you really lost me! What are you saying here? I'm interested; but it's over my head!
>
> Tks, cf
>
Posted by corafree on June 15, 2005, at 12:58:59
In reply to RE: HPA Axis and Anti-Cortisol Therapy » corafree, posted by Elroy on June 14, 2005, at 22:35:46
Hi Elroy. My computer is not letting me do what I want this morn; going to do surfing re: HPA Axis and then get back to you via babble.
First thought; this is the kind of thing that should be discussed in posts here to give us all some thought provocating ideas or understandings.
Second thought; respect your wish as your sharing (which I'm sure is very sincere) may be technical or controversial or IYO, and could see why rather go this route.
Montel Williams spoke this a.m. about the multi-faceted way he treats his multiple sclerosis; one facet being a five(or four?) chinese herb mix. I thought 'good for you, share; because ya' know he could keep silent and not possibly spurn medical docs or experts in areas of different treatment. I hate seeing anyone suffer because they are not privy to something helpful.
I've 'opened mouth and inserted foot' more than once here; partly because I'm no genius, and partly because I am 'anti-politically and anti-socially honest'. It's wise for me to always take two steps back or count to 10, but that's hard for me because I'm a bit too reactive and spontaneous!
I've burned bridges, lost friends, and blown whistles. In my (sometimes lonesome) heart, I know there is some reason. That's why I am thankful for psycho-babble; can correct self before acting.
Busy, feelin' okay. Tks and best wishes .. cf
Posted by haddsl on June 15, 2005, at 13:08:04
In reply to RE: HPA Axis and Anti-Cortisol Therapy » Elroy, posted by corafree on June 15, 2005, at 12:58:59
It's wise for me to always take two steps back or count to 10, but that's hard for me because I'm a bit too reactive and spontaneous!
>I am this same way. It is SO hard to not loose it and just tell people exactlly what you think of them, and what you think of their ideas and such. I always want to just jump in before thinking. Very VERY hard to do!
-haddsl
Posted by blueyezzzzzz on June 15, 2005, at 16:18:29
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by sastamour on June 14, 2005, at 15:56:10
I had to stop taking effexor xr because of that. It did'nt go away for me and I had horrible side effects when I stopped.
Posted by Elroy on June 15, 2005, at 18:27:04
In reply to RE: HPA Axis and Anti-Cortisol Therapy » Elroy, posted by corafree on June 15, 2005, at 12:58:59
Agree with you on the sharing aspect (I should have thought of that), just that the whole topic of HPA Axis dysfunction and elevation of cortisol and interaction of elevated cortisol with anxiety and depression is off topic from this current thread that we are on and can really go on and on and on.
As far as being controversial, I don't believe that it is - other than the normal controversy that follows a "new" form of therapy.
How about I start a new thread titled "HPA Axis Dysfunction and Cortisol Problems"???
Elroy
> Hi Elroy. My computer is not letting me do what I want this morn; going to do surfing re: HPA Axis and then get back to you via babble.
>
> First thought; this is the kind of thing that should be discussed in posts here to give us all some thought provocating ideas or understandings.
>
> Second thought; respect your wish as your sharing (which I'm sure is very sincere) may be technical or controversial or IYO, and could see why rather go this route.
>
> Montel Williams spoke this a.m. about the multi-faceted way he treats his multiple sclerosis; one facet being a five(or four?) chinese herb mix. I thought 'good for you, share; because ya' know he could keep silent and not possibly spurn medical docs or experts in areas of different treatment. I hate seeing anyone suffer because they are not privy to something helpful.
>
> I've 'opened mouth and inserted foot' more than once here; partly because I'm no genius, and partly because I am 'anti-politically and anti-socially honest'. It's wise for me to always take two steps back or count to 10, but that's hard for me because I'm a bit too reactive and spontaneous!
>
> I've burned bridges, lost friends, and blown whistles. In my (sometimes lonesome) heart, I know there is some reason. That's why I am thankful for psycho-babble; can correct self before acting.
>
> Busy, feelin' okay. Tks and best wishes .. cf
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