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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 79. Go back in thread:
Posted by sdb on May 23, 2005, at 13:08:51
In reply to Re: Has somebody ever taken prazepam (Centrax)?, posted by SLS on May 23, 2005, at 10:09:20
Hi!
To SLS: I would say prazepam could be useful to stop for example alprazolam, but you would have them take first togheter because of very long onset of steady-state levels of active metabolite nordiazepam and then stop prazepam slowly. There are some interesting articles in pubmed of prazepam pharmacokinetics pharmacology.
To DARKHORSE: Did you ever have tolerance to benzos for example prazepam, bromazepam?
Regardssdb
Posted by sdb on May 23, 2005, at 20:06:53
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) to DARKHORSE and SLS, posted by sdb on May 23, 2005, at 13:08:51
Hi darkhorse!
Sorry to interrupt you but it is very useful to hear to someone experienced in bz's here.
One more question after (tolerance to bz's above all prazepam, bromazepam):
How would you rate bz's in cognitive impairment e.g. memorizing things, or attention?-Especially prazepam and bromazepam compared to others e.g. diazepam?
Kind regards
sdb
Posted by darkhorse on May 24, 2005, at 3:51:02
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) to DARKHORSE and SLS, posted by sdb on May 23, 2005, at 13:08:51
> Hi!
>
.
>
> To DARKHORSE: Did you ever have tolerance to benzos for example prazepam, bromazepam?I never had a tolerance with BZ anti- anxiety effects.But tolerance to their hypnotic effects, yes.
The only BZ that I had tolerance with was Xanax.
I used to have in the past good anti- anxiety effect from 0.5 3 times a day.
Recently I tried it a gain and it seemed that I had to take it more frequently to maintain the effect, like 0.5 mg 5 times a day, so I stopped of fear of dependence.Once I stayed for months on 1mg twice a day of Lorazepam (Temesta/Ativan) and never felt the need to escalate the dose.
In fact when I experimented with more for a couple of days I felt worse.Same with Prazepam,diazepam,bromazepam ..etc. For me, it seems that I have a dosage that is just perfect,if decreases it gives this uneasy sedated can't- think feeling, and if increased it gives this bad dream-like state with some feelings of aggression,rudness and tiredness.
Sorry for the long talk!
Best regards,
Darkhorse.
>
>
> Regards
>
> sdb
Posted by darkhorse on May 24, 2005, at 4:32:09
In reply to prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 23, 2005, at 20:06:53
> Hi Sdb
> How would you rate bz's in cognitive impairment e.g. memorizing things, or attention?-Especially prazepam and bromazepam compared to others e.g. diazepam?This is a difficult question.
IMO, I think the relation between sedation and cognitive impairment is very weak.e.g I rate Lorazepam as not so sedating i.e. I have good concentration and can function very well.However, when I stop it, I'm not able to recall some things in details.
On the other hand a more sedating compound such as Clonazepam, when I took it I could not concentrate or do any work, felt blue and very tired, but when I stopped and all those nasty effects vanished, it seemed I was able to remember events (marginally) more than lorazepam.
Another better example is Clobazam (Frisum) :
Although it is the only BZ that is totally devoid of any sedation.when I took it, I "felt" like I'm functioning well and no tiredness at all (but due to its anxiety/aggression/unease effect on me I stopped).
However, when I stopped, I could not rcall very much how nasty I was!So, going back to your question:
1- in terms of "memorizing aspects" I think that all BZ tend to have this amnestic effects regardless of their sedation, but I rate Lorazepam,Cloxazolam Zolpidem and Lormetazepam as the strongest,and Chlordiazepoxide,Bentazepam,Bromazepam and Prazepam as the least amnestic.
2- In terms of " attention" I think that sedation here plays the major part : the more sedating, the more difficult to concentrate and do things.
Just a humble opinion!!
>
> Kind regards
>
>Darkhorse
>
Posted by darkhorse on May 24, 2005, at 5:25:26
In reply to Re: Has somebody ever taken prazepam (Centrax)?, posted by SLS on May 23, 2005, at 10:09:20
> Hi.
>
> It sounds like prazepam might be an effective drug to cross-over to from other BZDs when one is looking to discontinue them - perhaps more effective than diazepam.
>
> Any thoughts?Hello Scott :
- I think the reason why diazepam is the "gold standard" to dicontinue, because it is available all over the world (unlike the other similar long-acting ones),commonly prescribed and most physicians are familiar with it,and therefore it was naturally chosen.
- However compounds that have the same long half- life but even less potent and less sedative might be another very good option e.g. (chlordiazepoxide and Prazepam),but I do not think it would be a *better* opion.More or less the same.
- I tapered after long use of Lorazepam, with bromazepam,and even though it was not an easy ride,it worked,so I think the bottom line is to substitute the short acting ones with longer acting ones and decrease very slowly and according to how one's feel.
Best wishes,
Darkhorse.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by ed_uk on May 24, 2005, at 14:00:41
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by darkhorse on May 24, 2005, at 4:32:09
Hi DH!
I'd like to try bromazepam!
Kind regards,
Ed.PS. It's GOOD to see you posting again, I always read your posts :-D
Posted by sdb on May 24, 2005, at 18:45:30
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on May 24, 2005, at 14:00:41
Yes, its good to have you here darkhorse and ed_uk.
I would be pleased to ask some more questions related to bromazepam and prazepam experience some days later (hard working).
Kind regards
Posted by darkhorse on May 25, 2005, at 4:12:05
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on May 24, 2005, at 14:00:41
> Hi ED:
>
It's GOOD to see you posting again, I always read your posts :-DSame here. I ALWAYS read your exremely useful messages.
You are such an informative, modest and sweet soul>
All the best with your exams!
Darkhorse
P.S. I try very hard not to write messages too much, as you know it is so addictive (more than Ativan!! just kidding),but temptation is so powerful!
Posted by darkhorse on May 25, 2005, at 4:16:14
In reply to prazepam, bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk, posted by sdb on May 24, 2005, at 18:45:30
Hello Sdb,
> Yes, its good to have you here darkhorse and ed_uk.
It is my pleasure to share with you our experiences.
Wishing you all the best with your work.
Darkhorse.
>
> Kind regards
Posted by ed_uk on May 25, 2005, at 7:57:02
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on May 25, 2005, at 4:12:05
Hi DH!
>All the best with your exams!
Thank you :-)
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by sdb on May 27, 2005, at 12:13:01
In reply to Re: prazepam, bromazepam to darkhorse, ed_uk » sdb, posted by darkhorse on May 25, 2005, at 4:16:14
Hi everbody, darkehorse, ed_uk,
The prazepam is pretty good but it has a long time of onset. After five days I felt the drug.
Clonazepam was good also in diminish panic, ocd in hypomanic phasis. The only disadvantage was some lethargic feelings and total sexual disfunction after approx. 3 days (first interestingly even increased sexual function). This bad sideeffects could diminsh with time according to studies so I cannot give an appropriate experience, because I have only taken it nine days constantly.-Did you also remark a long time of onset of the prazepem?
-How would you rate bromazepam/prazepam/clonazepam
related to sexual and cognitive (memorizing things) abilities?I am testing prazepam that time but I will perhaps give a try to bromazepam and and least buprenorphine (the only thing I would take in this substance class). Mood-stabilizers did nothing for me but perhaps I have taken the wrong combinations.A pdoc suggested lamical-seroquel, said it would be standart-therapie (Personally I dont like words like standart sometimes).
I have never taken non reversibel MAO's (poorly, no more available in my country). This could be an option after worst experiences and memorized OCD because of the SSRI's.
Thank for sharing experience.
Best wishes
sdb
Posted by ed_uk on May 27, 2005, at 12:57:19
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE » ed_uk, posted by darkhorse on May 25, 2005, at 4:12:05
>You are such an informative, modest and sweet soul.......
That was such a nice thing to say :-) You are too kind lol :-)
Warm regards,
Ed.
Posted by sdb on May 27, 2005, at 14:35:50
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE » darkhorse, posted by ed_uk on May 27, 2005, at 12:57:19
Hi ed_uk!
I also wish you good exams and a lot of courage.
Exams are part of our society, human compassion is best. Sorry, I have overseen that before. Hopefully not too late.Kind regards
sdb
Posted by ed_uk on May 27, 2005, at 15:21:08
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 27, 2005, at 14:35:50
Hi sdb!
>I also wish you good exams and a lot of courage.
Thank you :-) I had an exam today, it wasn't too bad. Are you at University? If so, what subject?
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by sdb on May 27, 2005, at 15:55:10
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE » sdb, posted by ed_uk on May 27, 2005, at 15:21:08
I am going to be MD.
Posted by ed_uk on May 27, 2005, at 16:10:37
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 27, 2005, at 15:55:10
I always wanted to be a doctor. I gave up on my dream several years ago. Now I'm doing pharmacy which I don't like, it's boring as hell. How can you cope with doing medicine if you suffer from anxiety? I don't understand. I would need to be on 10mg Ativan a day to cope with the stress. Sorry, I'm bitter.
Posted by ed_uk on May 27, 2005, at 16:23:03
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 27, 2005, at 15:55:10
>I am going to be MD.
Hi sdb,
Sorry, I just read my last post and it sounded rather rude- that was not my intention. A lot of babblers seem to be studying medicine. It really gets to me because it's something I can't do. I should probably stop asking people what they are studying! It would be better if I didn't know. If anyone is reading this and you are studying medcine, please don't tell me. It will make me depressed. It's illogical but true.
The difference between pharmacy and medicine: if you're doing medicine you get (almost) infinite opportunities; if you're doing pharmacy you get none.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on May 27, 2005, at 16:35:28
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 27, 2005, at 15:55:10
I've made a fool of myself now :-( I just got a bit emotional. I am selfish. I should have congratulated you but I was thinking about myself. OK, I'm gonna shut up now....
Kind regards,
Ed.PS. You'll be a great doc btw- you will understand the patient's point of view. You can be my doc lol!
Posted by ed_uk on May 27, 2005, at 18:37:06
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 27, 2005, at 15:55:10
I hope I haven't offended you.............I have issues RE 'this subject' :-S
Yours,
Ed.
Posted by sdb on May 28, 2005, at 2:02:41
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE » sdb, posted by ed_uk on May 27, 2005, at 18:37:06
I am bp. In good phases I feel optimistic and I feel strong in bad phases I have melancholic sometimes depressed negative feelings, anxiety and I withdraw. Sport (jogging) is a good thing and it helps and I do it often. But it cant cure you. I dont know what to do later but there is always the possibility to get a job in research, administration perhaps hospital. I suppose its good to think rational. If I won't feel any pleasure with what I do, I will change immediately. Sometimes life is hard but I try to think that there are other, even more suffering people. If there is some spare time I read books or travel, walking is also beatiful.
kind regards
sdb
Posted by sdb on May 28, 2005, at 2:13:50
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 28, 2005, at 2:02:41
By the way, you said "I should have congratulated". You have not to. It does not depend what you do. Every individual has a worthful role in society, otherwise our society can not function. So truly, everthing is equal.
Posted by sdb on May 28, 2005, at 6:05:27
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 28, 2005, at 2:13:50
Posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 10:24:27
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 28, 2005, at 2:13:50
Hi sdb,
I'm sorry for hijacking the thread. I hope you're not mad at me now.
> there is always the possibility to get a job in research
You should invent some new anti-anxiety drugs!
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by sdb on May 28, 2005, at 13:46:41
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE » sdb, posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 10:24:27
Hi ed,
I am absolutely not mad. If I decide go in to research I will try to help suffering people.
Bye the way, I had a pretty difficult childhood and could not walk (physically disabled) during three years.http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050521/msgs/500782.html
If you are cultural interested there is film about a bipolar, homosexual pianist. It is very interesting to see it. He said in the film (he gave seldom interviews): "You should accept your faith this is psychologically the easiest". I have analyzed the film perhaps three times.
Sviatoslav Richter "The enigma"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004CXNY/drbobsvirtenp-21
There is another artist Glenn Gould. He was addicted to almost every substance. I suppose he suffered social avoidance disorder and anxiety disorders. He once stated: "Solitude is the way of happiness".
This is his playing performance (Goldberg Variations DVD):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005014I/drbobsvirtenp-21
This is his life "Thirty-Two Short Films About Glenn Gould" (played by an actor DVD):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000544LY/drbobsvirtenp-21
Artists and interesting persons are always in some way disordered. But this give you consolation.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 29, 2005, at 11:42:56
In reply to Re: prazepam (centrax) one more please to DARKHORSE, posted by sdb on May 28, 2005, at 13:46:41
> If you are cultural interested there is film about a bipolar, homosexual pianist.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding films and music to Psycho-Babble Books. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/books/20050501/msgs/504689.html
Thanks,
Bob
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