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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by fuji on May 6, 2005, at 6:27:24
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by Wendigo on May 5, 2005, at 7:12:57
In the years that I drank, I never took ADs. In fact I was sober for like 6 years before I went on them and have not come off since then. I am going back to Effexor from Cymbalta and see how my appetite behaves in a week or so. I gave the Cymbalta 3 weeks and that's long enough as far as I am concerned. The problem with alcohol is that it always gets worse and never gets better. It really is that black and white which is just the way it is. For me, those feelings of remorse and shame after a night of drinking were just intolerable especially considering I was a daily drinker. If anything made me suicidal, it was those feelings deep in my gut after a really hideous night of drinking. Hideous not by quantity of alcohol but by my behavor.
fuji
Posted by Kotari on May 6, 2005, at 8:45:15
In reply to Re: new post to effexor.......... » redjr, posted by Corafree on May 5, 2005, at 22:34:42
Hi,
I have been lurking on this list for a while. I, too, have noticed an increased craving for alcohol while on effexor XR (about 5 years) and have feared that I am developing alcoholism.
I have tried to get off effexor once, when my doc thought that zyprexa would be better for my fibromyalgia symptoms. Weaned almost all the way off of 75 mg. of effexor, but the weight gain hit me - and constant thoughts about food - I had always been thin previously - so I fled back to the effexor.
Recently I have developed migraine headaches, especially in response to alcohol, which I still crave. My doc wants to try me on cymbalta. I am very skeptical. It's hard on your liver, and I tried adding it for about a week (low dose) and it seemed to make me sleepy and want to eat a lot, although my mood did seem a bit better. No effect on the headaches/pain, though.
One of you mentioned you were on cymbalta. I am curious, why did you decide to go back to the effexor?
Kotari
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 6, 2005, at 10:45:49
In reply to Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by absolute on May 3, 2005, at 23:43:38
Hi,
I can concur that Effexor and also to a lesser degree other SSRI's have increased my craving for alcohol in particular but also other drugs. It created a sense of inner restlessness of which I could never determine whether it was mild manic agitation or akathesia (a syndrome of restlessness sometimes induced by drugs that reduce the effects of dopamine in the brain.) Some people are more susceptible than others to akathesia. When I took a tiny dose of Haldol many years ago I was literally pacing in circles to avoid jumping out of my skin. For me and some others SSRI's produce a milder version of this. I can't even tolerate more than 12.5mg of Zoloft without begining to feel this way. No Joke 12.5mg of Zoloft! Whatever the nature of the mild restlessness I found it very hard to stay sober and in fact 75mg of Effexor was the worst. I am now in recovery for alcohol and drug use since November 2nd 2003 (alcohol and cocaine mostly, but I have done them all and certainly have the addict instinct of always wanting to feel differently or perfectly not just undepressed and unanxious so I have to be very careful with the controlled meds I take and honest with my doc). Although I suffer from depression, I believe alcohol and drug addiction is a primary illness not the result of psychiatric disorders in the vast majority of cases I've seen.
Most alcoholics and addicts are not depressed or anxious unless in withdrawal.Anyways..Sorry for the ramble but yes Effexor made me more of booze hound whatever the reason!
Scott
Posted by Kotari on May 6, 2005, at 13:15:47
In reply to Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts, posted by Mr.Scott on May 6, 2005, at 10:45:49
Scott,
I did experience akasthesia on the low dose of zyprexa - literally could not sit still and wanted to jump out of my skin. It would only last for 15-20 mins., but very uncomfortable. Never had anything like that with the effexor, but I recently have been trying to increase my dose above 75 mg. and have been nervously chewing my fingers to bits. Very unattractive.
I am interested in what you said about DOPAMINE. The psych who wanted me to increase the effexor said I would get more dopamine with the higher dose and my sex drive would improve. I think that increasng the dose has caused the migraines. Did not know that low dopamine could cause that restlessness problem. Are there other effects that you know of?
I am seriously considering asking to doc to add wellbutrin to my mix, to see if I can increase dopamine that way.
Anyone else out there take this mix? I'm also taking trazadone at night and it would be great to be able to skip this and still be able to sleep.
Kotari
Posted by fuji on May 6, 2005, at 20:17:34
In reply to Re: new post to effexor.........., posted by Kotari on May 6, 2005, at 8:45:15
I was on Cymbalta for 3 weeks and am in the process of going back to Effexor because I guess I felt better on Effexor. I seemed to have unatural strong cravings for food while on the Cymbata and could eat round the clock. Plus it is not one of my pharmacy plans formulary drugs so I had to pay more for it and would need to feel superb to justify the extra cost.
Also, even though addiction be it alcohol or drug stands alone as a primary disease, it is the rare addict who is not depressed or otherwise suffering with a mental disorder of which the use of alcohol and drugs initially was used for self-medication. My opinion of course based on being an addict and working in the field.
fuji
Posted by Elroy on May 6, 2005, at 21:50:28
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect??, posted by redjr on May 5, 2005, at 9:43:01
Yes, major, MAJOR problem with prostatitis type sensations with Effexor. Also same-same with Cymbalta, just took Cymbalta longer for the effects to surface. Bad news is that while the symptoms aren't as bad (since I stopped), they haven't gone away completely either. My urologist says that since it's a "non bacteria prostatitis" that there's not much he can do! Suggested maybe Elmiron (which is actually for IC and takes 3 - 6 months to take full effect)!!!
> Wendigo,
>
> Thanks for such an open and honest post about your personal experience with Effexor and alcohol tendencies. I don't have the drinking tendencies, but I'm thinking about switching from Effexor (75mg) to something else due to the negative sexual side effects I've been having - along with the Prostatitis symptoms. I like sex too much for it to be interferred with by an AD drug!
>
> redjr..
Posted by Elroy on May 6, 2005, at 22:36:40
In reply to Re: Alcoholism - side effect?? » absolute, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 5, 2005, at 16:26:36
RE: Increased alcohol consumption on an SSRI indicates, among other things, that the drug IS NOT WORKING, IMHO.
Agree...
X
X
X
X> I've always thought the SSRI alcoholism thing is a result of either
>
> a) the SSRIs perturbing the normal functioning of some neural circuitry, e.g. through inhibition of DA activity, etc.
> or b) the SSRI inducing some anxiety along with apathy that can only be remedied by drinking alcohol.
>
> NOTE: When I was on SSRIs, my pot consumption skyrocketed and I developed a habit of heavy use that only now, years later, on the right meds, have brought back to healthy levels.
>
> When the SSRI user consumes alcohol, my groundless hypothesis states that they feel emotional release and pleasure again along with the effect of the SSRI, which makes it more difficult to experience the adverse effects of the alcohol and increases its pro-social action.
>
> Increased substance abuse upon SSRI use I feel is one of "big pharma psychiatry's"--that is, conventional "SSRI-go-round" prescribing habits--dirty little secrets, and it disgusts me. If they put those people on buprenorphine (or perhaps phenelzine) instead, they'd probably drink LESS. Increased alcohol consumption on an SSRI indicates, among other things, that the drug IS NOT WORKING, IMHO.
Posted by jubilee on May 7, 2005, at 8:51:34
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Dr. Bob, posted by winddancer on April 23, 2005, at 21:48:36
Woke up w/ swollen arm and hand twice this week . any ideas? Took Symbrax for 3 days last week and it happened , but I stopped. but stoped and didnt have a problem . Think it my neck or the med ? Going to dr on monday.Jubilee
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 7, 2005, at 9:18:23
In reply to Re: Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts, posted by Kotari on May 6, 2005, at 13:15:47
Hi,
I've never heard anyone report improved sex drive from Effexor at any dose. Perhaps if you're near incapacitated, any antidepressant will help but wellbutrin is reportedly more likely than Effexor to achieve this. Don't expect much dopamine action from Effexor and certainly not until around 300mg. However, wellbutrin made 'me' climb the walls while amphetamine does not!! Effex might be causing the headaches, these meds elude even their manufacturers understanding. If the headaches are new it probably is the cause.
In a nut shell...increasing serotonin inhibits the action of dopamine in the nigra-striatal region of the brain (differently for everyone, and with varying sensitivities). In this region dopamine acts as an 'inhibitory' neurotransmitter over acetycholine. This region is frequently associated with movement among other things. Through this cascade of increasing serotonin leading to decreased dopamine and increased acetycholine 'can' a person experience akathisia and other EPS symptoms. Not common from ssri/snri's but it does happen. When it does think of parkinson's symptoms, and related changes in muscle tone or rigidity, restlessness, etc.
But I would say if you can't tolerate the side effects of a higher dose, or/and you feel you need more antidepressant action you should talk to your doc. Thats what they get paid for.
To listen to us whine and ask for pills :-)!
> Scott,
>
> I did experience akasthesia on the low dose of zyprexa - literally could not sit still and wanted to jump out of my skin. It would only last for 15-20 mins., but very uncomfortable. Never had anything like that with the effexor, but I recently have been trying to increase my dose above 75 mg. and have been nervously chewing my fingers to bits. Very unattractive.
>
> I am interested in what you said about DOPAMINE. The psych who wanted me to increase the effexor said I would get more dopamine with the higher dose and my sex drive would improve. I think that increasng the dose has caused the migraines. Did not know that low dopamine could cause that restlessness problem. Are there other effects that you know of?
>
> I am seriously considering asking to doc to add wellbutrin to my mix, to see if I can increase dopamine that way.
>
> Anyone else out there take this mix? I'm also taking trazadone at night and it would be great to be able to skip this and still be able to sleep.
>
> Kotari
>
Posted by StayceeIB on May 7, 2005, at 11:27:15
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » StayceeIB, posted by Corafree on April 23, 2005, at 2:33:27
What is BEnzo?? NO I never took EFFEXOR :( just put it away got to scared... ER went once they gav eme xanax ..I take ativan daily noy sure if it helps....can i beat this without meds??
> So sorry, really sorry you are having soooo much anxiety. You really need to get that under control. The only AD I ever took that helped w/ anxiety is Effexor-XR. Did you take it? Did it help? You cannot go on 24/7 anxiety. Someone needs to help you find something to slow what sounds like is out of control. It sounds so bad to me, I worry, do you think maybe you should go to an ER (as much as they are hard to handle)? I don't know what are your circumstances, your age, your support people. Your body is alerting you to a 'stress overload'. You've got to have help to get that awful constant anxiety under control. I pray 37.5 Effexor-XR will help you. If you can take a few days more of this ... this is the one AD for anxiety. I am inclined to suggest a benzo might be necessary for you. Have you given that any thought? You are in my thoughts and prayers, cf
Posted by StayceeIB on May 7, 2005, at 11:35:34
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by redjr on May 3, 2005, at 8:11:25
I am worried about the heart factor...I have a heart murmer ....also i occasionally smoke MJ so i am afraid of adverse reaction..Really this drug scaressssss me..any other advice
?
Posted by StayceeIB on May 7, 2005, at 11:43:47
In reply to Re: Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts » Kotari, posted by Mr.Scott on May 7, 2005, at 9:18:23
amphetamine ??? Effexor Xr has amphetamines????
As for asking the doc..my doc nerver even made eye contact with me :(
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 7, 2005, at 13:38:19
In reply to Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts, posted by Mr.Scott on May 6, 2005, at 10:45:49
I agree with the akathesia hypothesis. That is part of why many people increase their substance use/abue on SSRIs, IMHO. The two other other reasons I believe are:
1) The SSRIs flatten out emotions so much that people are eager to feel ANYTHING different, and substances do that.
2) The SSRI mitigates the undesirable side effects of the other drug, such as SSRIs eliminating pot paranoia, for example.
These SSRI drugs are bad karma, man. Laugh at me if you want, but I don't think I've ever had anyone tell me in person they liked taking an SSRI.
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2005, at 18:17:00
In reply to Re: Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts » Mr.Scott, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 7, 2005, at 13:38:19
Staycee, A benzo is something to calm you. You are taking a benzo right now if I read your post correctly. Ativan is a benzodiazepine. Also valium, xanax, klonopin, tranxene. Someone else help me out if I've forgotten any. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by 1Emily on May 8, 2005, at 18:46:36
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! , posted by Shel on July 18, 2000, at 1:35:45
I have been on effexor for 9 days at 37.5 mgs time released caps. I just sleep and am not getting any work done. Should I stop? This may not be the right medication for me. I am suffering from situational depression. In my life I have suffered such depressions two times that I can remember otherwise I am generally not depressions.
Posted by Kotari on May 9, 2005, at 7:59:13
In reply to Re: Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts » Kotari, posted by Mr.Scott on May 7, 2005, at 9:18:23
Scott,
Thanks much for the Info. I do think trying to increase my dose of effexor above 75 mg is what triggered the headaches. I had similar headaches and vertigo type symptoms when I first began these meds, but only just now made the connection. These are some powerful meds. In my opinion, effexor DOES work on neuropathic pain, just like the claims for cymbalta, although it was not tested for that as cymbalta was. I think I'll stick with the effexor at this dose and maybe try adding the wellbutrin. But I WILL ask my doc.
> Hi,
>
> I've never heard anyone report improved sex drive from Effexor at any dose. Perhaps if you're near incapacitated, any antidepressant will help but wellbutrin is reportedly more likely than Effexor to achieve this. Don't expect much dopamine action from Effexor and certainly not until around 300mg. However, wellbutrin made 'me' climb the walls while amphetamine does not!! Effex might be causing the headaches, these meds elude even their manufacturers understanding. If the headaches are new it probably is the cause.
>
> In a nut shell...increasing serotonin inhibits the action of dopamine in the nigra-striatal region of the brain (differently for everyone, and with varying sensitivities). In this region dopamine acts as an 'inhibitory' neurotransmitter over acetycholine. This region is frequently associated with movement among other things. Through this cascade of increasing serotonin leading to decreased dopamine and increased acetycholine 'can' a person experience akathisia and other EPS symptoms. Not common from ssri/snri's but it does happen. When it does think of parkinson's symptoms, and related changes in muscle tone or rigidity, restlessness, etc.
>
> But I would say if you can't tolerate the side effects of a higher dose, or/and you feel you need more antidepressant action you should talk to your doc. Thats what they get paid for.
>
> To listen to us whine and ask for pills :-)!
>
>
>
> > Scott,
> >
> > I did experience akasthesia on the low dose of zyprexa - literally could not sit still and wanted to jump out of my skin. It would only last for 15-20 mins., but very uncomfortable. Never had anything like that with the effexor, but I recently have been trying to increase my dose above 75 mg. and have been nervously chewing my fingers to bits. Very unattractive.
> >
> > I am interested in what you said about DOPAMINE. The psych who wanted me to increase the effexor said I would get more dopamine with the higher dose and my sex drive would improve. I think that increasng the dose has caused the migraines. Did not know that low dopamine could cause that restlessness problem. Are there other effects that you know of?
> >
> > I am seriously considering asking to doc to add wellbutrin to my mix, to see if I can increase dopamine that way.
> >
> > Anyone else out there take this mix? I'm also taking trazadone at night and it would be great to be able to skip this and still be able to sleep.
> >
> > Kotari
> >
>
>
Posted by Liz1977 on May 11, 2005, at 1:36:39
In reply to Effexor = No sleep, posted by heather3781 on April 15, 2005, at 10:35:16
Heather I had the same exact side effects. Sitting at work and unable to stop tappin my foot or fidgeting.. The side effects got worse too.I had horrible hot flashes and sweats a LOT.. felt faint a lot.. I was a motor mouth.. talked so quickly and TOO MUCH! lol lost a pile of weight.. I think from all that fidgeting! :)Eventually I got off it. The side effects weren't worth it. Although I did feel great from what I remember. Another side effect was being forgetful :) I have a few friends who were on it and they all had the same or WORSE side effects. I'm on St. John Wort and 5-HTP now.. herbal remedies.
IF any of you are sick of the antidepressants might want to check out this forum:
http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/forums.shtml
Everything you ever wanted to know about starting.
Cheers!
Posted by jadedmystry on May 13, 2005, at 14:04:38
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I have never been on different meds for over a year for depression, conditon spun out of control and could have been fatal, doctor gave me Trazodone with Effexor as a combo over 2 1/2 months ago. The combo works very well for me, and I feel good, but I do have the jittery side effects I have seen everyone mention, but no insomnia, the trazodone helps that, and I have lost 15 lbs, but I am happy about that.
Posted by corafree on May 15, 2005, at 17:20:07
In reply to Re: Combinig Trazodone w/ Effexor ....working well, posted by jadedmystry on May 13, 2005, at 14:04:38
That is my old combo ...
Effexor-XR day and trazodone for sleep. You have to get sleep. It did work well.
Best wishes, cf
Posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
In reply to Re: Combinig Trazodone w/ Effexor ....working well » jadedmystry, posted by corafree on May 15, 2005, at 17:20:07
Just curious, anyone tried both Remeron and Trazadone, and if so, which do you prefer (just for sleep, not for AD effect)?
This is my 19th day on Eff XR, (4th on 150 mgs). Had the daytime fatigue, dry mouth, and insomnia at night upon starting. I did 37.5 for two days, but then I decided that with my really fast metabolism, I needed to dose twice daily, so then I did 37.5 twice daily for about 5 or 6 days, then 112.5 for about a week, and the last 4 days at 150 (75 at 10 a.m., and 75 at 5 p.m). Think I read where you were doing likewise.
All the side effects except the insomnia had pretty much resolved in about two weeks.
I had to take a couple of weeks off because of depression and anxiety for the first time in my life. I've had both those issues for many, many years, but never had to take more than the occasional day off because of them, but I got to the point where I needed to either try to fix those issues, or otherwise make my exit.
Have tried a bunch of antidepressants in the past 11 years. I found the side effects to be so bothersome that I only really took two at what could be called therapeutic doses, but even with them, I could only handle them on the low end of the scale. I took Zoloft (50 and 100 variably), and Remeron, mostly at 15mgs.
With the fast metabolism, I burn right through drugs.
So now, this recent try of Effexor XR. Fully expected to feel terrible from it, but to my surprise the side effects have not been bad. Fairly easily tolerated (being home from work the last 3 weeks as I've tried this has helped).
I'm not crazy about Remeron. I think it causes a lot of lability in me (so does Serzone), but with this Effexor insomnia, Ambien doesn't even put a dent in it, so I take a puny amount of Remeron (7.5 mg) to aid sleep.
I'm really hoping Effexor works. I've never been in full remission, (partial is the best I've managed), and I've been depressed since I was a teenager, and I'm a 49 year old male.
Sorry for the long post, and thanks for listening.
Posted by corafree on May 15, 2005, at 21:51:10
In reply to Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
No Remeron use here; traz just worked fine and had no hang-over feelings. If your curious that I say was on, it is because I am now on mood stabilizers. Boy am I getting fat!!! I laugh and think I look like the girl on Willie Wonka that turned into the blueberry! Everybody knows her right?? I'm sorry, as to your post, just wanted you to know never had reason to try Remeron; at least never suggested for any reason. cf
Posted by 4WD on May 15, 2005, at 22:28:46
In reply to Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
Trazadone worked well for sleep for me. Start low, though. The first time I took it, I took half a pill and slept twelve hours. It took a few days to get used to it and not feel hung over. I couldn't continue taking it, though because after a few days I started getting restless legs really really badly.
Posted by jonnie on May 16, 2005, at 0:04:21
In reply to Re: effexor xr and side effects, posted by Cindy W on April 23, 2000, at 20:48:09
I was suppose to start Effexor XR a couple of weeks ago, but i am to nervous about the possible sexual side effects. For me sexual side effects are as bad as the original problem i'm trying to fix - i.e. depression.
Should i even bother with Effexor XR
Posted by jadedmystry on May 16, 2005, at 9:04:57
In reply to Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
Don't worry about having a long story to tell, it is better out than in, and we are here to share. I don't mean to be intrusive, but I just wanted to comment and ask you a question. I have just recently missed time at work for the first time since I have been diagnosed. It became impossible for me to function. I just wondered if you did anything besides the meds. I decided to see a therapist, because I know for me that the meds are no longer enough. I guess I am asking did you do anything that helped you get thru besides the medication. If I put you on the spot I am sorry, I don't mean to pry. By all means let me know if it is none of my buisness.
Posted by jadedmystry on May 16, 2005, at 9:19:37
In reply to Re: effexor xr and side effects, posted by jonnie on May 16, 2005, at 0:04:21
> I was suppose to start Effexor XR a couple of weeks ago, but i am to nervous about the possible sexual side effects. For me sexual side effects are as bad as the original problem i'm trying to fix - i.e. depression.
>
> Should i even bother with Effexor XRWELL....to be honest there are some effects, or at least it was for me. Some days I had very heightened awareness, a simple touch drove me up the wall, needless to say I avoided walking in crowds those days, and then there were days that I was totally uninterested, and could not get exited if I wanted to. I had more days where I was feeling nothing, than those intense days. So you do have to factor that in to your decision. Of course everyone is different, it may not affect you at all.
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