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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by headachequeen on November 28, 2004, at 17:49:29
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by rainy on November 28, 2004, at 7:44:21
>
> I'm more inclined to suspect acupuncture as the culprit--that or not enough Topamax and/or Trazodone since neither seem to be doing their job. Maybe the Topamax does keep me from falling deeper into the pit.
> You may be right, Kat about emotional hunger, I've been missing our family terribly, but even cayenne pepper and hot, hot Dijon mustard taste like nothing. Coffe has no flavor. This is
> acute.
>Rainy, what dosage of topomax are you at now?
as for the emotional thing...
for lack of a better adjective, I use emotional, dietitians are now getting into the discussion, telling us that people are turning to food to get them through bad times and emotionally stressful times...it is a case of eating not from physical hunger but from emotional hunger, because you are stressed, anxious, angry, upset, even because you are happy or in a celebratory mood...
of course the eating disorders are at the extreme of this, where the normal eating routines are so disrupted that a person binges or starves and feels completely helpless to control his or her own dietary patterns.
Emotional eating is less debilitating than these extremes (the disorders) and more widespread. In fact it is believed that everyone succumbs to some extent, however food they say won't solve things in the long term (no kidding, sez I)The food eaten in these instances is numbing, the person doesn't even taste it. Then the person feels worse, eats more and the problem spirals.
According to the dietitians and nutrition specialists involved in this latest study, an American one, Americans - I think they could say North Americans, though - ecpect to always feel happy, however irrational that may be, so when there is something wrong, they expect the quick fix, and food is everywhere. Reaching for food can be an attempt to recreate happier times in childhood, or other moments when the person was comfortable and content, often or most usually times when food was involved...
think of the happy times in our lives, they most often involve food, preparing food, or eating...
special meals, special foods, and so on.One of the suggestions that accompanied one of the interviews included alternatives for the person who turns to food...
instead of turning blindly to food have a glass of water; have a cup of tea or coffee; go for a walk, pet the dog; call a friend; do something you enjoy doing; go to another area of the office or house and do something that will occupy your thoughts and put the idea of eating aside.Physical activity helps people clear their minds and cope with stress stress, and excerise increases blood sugar making one less hungry physically.
another idea was that before eating anything, decide what it is you want to eat, not just the actual food, but the flavour, texture...
simply sticking food in one's mouth is not really satisfying, but if one takes the time to decide if one wants spicy or sweet, salty or chocolatey, soft or crunchy, chicken or peanut butter, and so on, weighing all the options, then the food when it is eaten is more satisfying leading to less binge eating and less constant eating...
also slow and careful preparation is supposed to help with lessening eating...
fast food and packaged foods tend to increase the frequent eating...Dividing a box or large bag of snack foods into one portion servings and packaging them and storing them that way helps as well...
if the box of crackers or cookies or whatever is divided into one-portion servings then one is less inclined to eat the whole thing...and parents who use food as rewards for behaviour set the pattern for food abuse as their children grow up...
Another suggestion is that instead of eating when one does not know why one is driven to the cupboard or refrigerator, sit down and write about the feelings that are at work at that time...
it may help you come to terms with your self and to better understand yourself....
that is it from the notes so far...eventually this may all come together into something that comes together...
or it may end up being trashed as something that I no longer wish to follow up
but it has been an interesting bit of work thus far and if it helps someone here then it has been worth the effort...the one thing that has been repeated and repeated is that we expect things to be fixed instantly...
our emotional selves were not damaged overnight and will not be fixed overnight....binge eating, anorexia, bulemia, and the other eating disorders including this milder but more pervasive one are symptoms of a greater problem and that problem needs to be addressed before the symptoms can disappear...
this takes time...I spent the afternoon interviewing a marvellous psycholgist... she works with women with various eating disorders and I will be sorting my notes...
and auditing the tapes for the next few days or longer... in between trying to decorate four trees, decorate the house, rearrange the living room, and see the neurologist and go for eegs and all that garbage...
and there is still work to be done on two almost overdue pieces of work that have to be in by the 12th of the month...
what idiot agreed to a December deadline...
and that was before I fried brain cells with high fever and all the rest of it...
at least now I would have an excuse for such a lamebrained thought...
however, as I go through all this material I shall sift out that which is useful for L and for you Rainy and for anyone else here...
eventually I hope to put it and the other interview material into something that is helpful and read-worthy and pitch it to someone who wants to publish it...but never again a December deadline LOL
kat
Posted by rainy on November 28, 2004, at 18:07:03
In reply to Re: change of subject » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 28, 2004, at 17:49:29
300 mgs
Posted by merry on November 28, 2004, at 18:50:44
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by rainy on November 28, 2004, at 18:07:03
I am on 400mgs of topomax as well as 300mgs of wellbutrin. I haven't been very hungry for a long while but this past week I've been feeling pretty down in the dumps and I've been binging. Even when I don't really feel hungry I just want to eat to make myself feel better. I hate it.
merry
Posted by merry on November 28, 2004, at 18:52:58
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by merry on November 28, 2004, at 18:50:44
I just noticed there is a new subject board just for "eating".
Posted by redscarlet on November 28, 2004, at 19:04:05
In reply to Re: change of subject » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 28, 2004, at 17:49:29
Kat ~ Thank You for writing all that up about emotional eating.
I have an eating disorder, I have dealt with anorexia for many, many years.
I all most died from it in fact.
I have been obsessed about my weight all my late teen to adult life.
Your post really spoke to me. I have been doing some binge eating for the last three weeks and I don't know why.
I have a lot of stress in my life right now so I guess it's coming from that, however that is usually when I STOP eating !
This binge eating has me so stressed out. I've never done this before and I want it to stop and stop NOW.
I'm really feeling out of control. I don't know if I should ask my pdoc to increase my Zonegran or not, he doesn't know about my eating disorder. I don't know how he would deal with that. Some pdoc's don't care about your weight issues, they only want to treat your mental disorder, .....even though I guess the eating disorder is a mental disorder !?!?!
And just for the record, I have bipolar and OCD.
I have a good friend who also see my same pdoc and she has put on a lot of weight due to Lithium, and he want change her meds ! So I really don't feel like I can tell him what's going on with me for fear he would put me on some kind of weight gaining med, one of my biggest fears !
The Zonegran is a lot like Topamax and suppose to have the appetite suppressant side effect, however at the 200mg a day that I'm on I have not had that side effect, but it is a very good med for my bipolar. Next month makes a year that I've been on the Zonegran. I was on Topamax before the Zonegran for about two and half years.
Posted by redscarlet on November 28, 2004, at 19:09:07
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by merry on November 28, 2004, at 18:52:58
Posted by headachequeen on November 28, 2004, at 21:17:25
In reply to Topamax/Zonegran eating disorder, posted by redscarlet on November 28, 2004, at 19:04:05
> Kat ~ Thank You for writing all that up about emotional eating.
> So I really don't feel like I can tell him what's going on with me for fear he would put me on some kind of weight gaining med, one of my biggest fears !
I am on three AEDs that they hope will eventually be balanced to control this chaos for a couple of years at which time the whole dance begins again ... and all three have an appetite suppressant side effect... one according to the warnings that accompany the first bottle of tablets "may" have appetite suppressant potential...
the other two, topomax being one of them of course, definitely are known to have suppressant capabilities.
Since I came home from hospital I have lost another five pounds...
and I am at a place where I really don't need to lose any more,and my husband and friends are at me constantly about my weight and about eating.
It is becoming an issue again, almost as great an issue as it was when I was an anorexic teen-ager and young adult...
most of the time I have no interest in food. Left to my own devices I can go a day or so and not realise that I have not eaten unless someone asks me if I have done so...
then Friday and Saturday of this week, I was hungry constantly... two meals each day and a sandwich around three a.m. Saturday morning; despite all these meds that suppress appetite and a disinterest in food, I was hungry...
actual hunger pangs in the case of early Saturday morning...
I don't know what it is... maybe the phase of the moon???
I do know that I have another seizure coming on, all the warnings are there for me, and now I wonder if that is connected...
you know, feed a fever and starve a cold or whatever that old adage was,
perhaps seizures need food to function too...but I think that we have to face the fact that these meds are not going to always be able to overcome our own drives 24 hours in ever seven days of the week....
One of my concerns here is the fear of being able to openly discuss a concern with a doctor for fear of being put on a med that will cause a problem be it weight gain or whatever...
we as patients should have a strong input into the situation...I remember being so relieved to know that my neurologist was not going to remove topomax from my protocol... I could not consider the possibility of a return to migraines or of weight gain that might ensue should I quit taking it...
then I remembered what I had read about so many other AEDs and the side effects they have...
and I would not consider taking them at all...followed by the thought that I have to have some consideration in all of this.
It is my body that has to deal with these chemicals, so I must have some say in what goes into my body...We are all too often in the position of feeling that we have to accept what ever is written on the prescription without question...
and I think that is wrong...
we have to be allowed input and we have to insist on some input. We may not have medical degrees and any great knowledge of pharmacology, but we have to live in these bodies and with the aftermath of these medications...
kat
Posted by stresser on November 28, 2004, at 22:28:22
In reply to Re: Topamax/Zonegran eating disorder » redscarlet, posted by headachequeen on November 28, 2004, at 21:17:25
Thanks everyone for the input on the topamax and therapist advice. After my daughter's seeing the same one for two years, we have decided to switch to another......I have to be an advocate for my childs mental health and will fight for her until I get what she deserves.
Kat....Thanks so much for the info you are gathering up for us....no hurry...we have time and will get it when you are ready. I'm sure it will help many of us.
It's really hard for me to reply to everything that has been posted because I can't seem to remember what everyone has said without looking back five or six times
Is 250mg on the topamax enough for appetite suppressant? I do know that empotional eating will not be stopped with that, but we are working on that with therapy.......Feel free to give advice....I always want your input. -L
Posted by HermanMunster on November 28, 2004, at 23:57:53
In reply to change of subject, posted by rainy on November 27, 2004, at 18:32:27
You need to reach an orgazam.
I prescribe you going out and getting a good lay.
Posted by linkadge on November 29, 2004, at 9:24:54
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by HermanMunster on November 28, 2004, at 23:57:53
If sex=happiness then Americans would be some of the happiest people on earth.
Unfortunatley your logic is flawed
Linkadge
Posted by headachequeen on November 29, 2004, at 11:04:08
In reply to Re: Topamax/Zonegran eating disorder, posted by stresser on November 28, 2004, at 22:28:22
> Thanks everyone for the input on the topamax and therapist advice. After my daughter's seeing the same one for two years, we have decided to switch to another......I have to be an advocate for my childs mental health and will fight for her until I get what she deserves.
> Kat....Thanks so much for the info you are gathering up for us....no hurry...we have time and will get it when you are ready. I'm sure it will help many of us.
> It's really hard for me to reply to everything that has been posted because I can't seem to remember what everyone has said without looking back five or six times
> Is 250mg on the topamax enough for appetite suppressant? I do know that empotional eating will not be stopped with that, but we are working on that with therapy.......Feel free to give advice....I always want your input. -L
We have to be our own advocates for health, mental and physical... so this is the first and strongest step, L...
and 250 mg is a good step forward... but not enough from the information that is available...
400 mg is the usual dosage that seems to work for most people...
kat
Posted by rainy on November 29, 2004, at 13:18:57
In reply to Re: Topamax/Zonegran eating disorder » stresser, posted by headachequeen on November 29, 2004, at 11:04:08
Howcome the exact message that you posted last night shows up at the foot of these two last posts? Did you post it again, L ?
Posted by headachequeen on November 29, 2004, at 14:22:30
In reply to Re: Topamax/Zonegran eating disorder » headachequeen, posted by rainy on November 29, 2004, at 13:18:57
> Howcome the exact message that you posted last night shows up at the foot of these two last posts? Did you post it again, L ?
>Which two last posts???
I posted it only once that I know of...
kat
Posted by rainy on November 29, 2004, at 15:15:48
In reply to Re: Topamax/Zonegran eating disorder » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 29, 2004, at 14:22:30
Sorry, I thought it was from Stresser. The posts from the guy from the Addams Family (sp?) and his responder.
L, I think I began losing weight at 225 mgs, but there were so many other variables in my life at that time that it's really hard to tell. I had broken my rib and was in pain and living on ice water so calories were already restricted.
I do gain weight when I eat more than I usually do, even on Topamax. Exercise and diet play a strong role in my experience of weight maintainence on this med. No free lunch for me.
rainy
Posted by stresser on November 29, 2004, at 17:06:52
In reply to Re: Topamax/Zonegran eating disorder, posted by rainy on November 29, 2004, at 15:15:48
I still don't understand the way these posting work half the time, and no, I didn't mean to post the same thing twice. I don't think I did? Who knows <ggggg>
Now...
Herman Munster:
I'm not trying to come off sounding rude or impolite, but I'm sure you were not refering to the topamax......I do think you may need to post your message on a different board. Dr. Bob may re-direct it that direction anyway.
As for the 400mg working best for most people, maybe the doc. will increase her dosage up higher in the future.....I just don't know if he knows how high she should go. -L
Posted by headachequeen on November 29, 2004, at 19:58:05
In reply to Re: Herman Munster and eating disorder/topamax/new, posted by stresser on November 29, 2004, at 17:06:52
> I still don't understand the way these posting work half the time, and no, I didn't mean to post the same thing twice. I don't think I did? Who knows <ggggg>
> Now...
> Herman Munster:
> I'm not trying to come off sounding rude or impolite, but I'm sure you were not refering to the topamax......I do think you may need to post your message on a different board. Dr. Bob may re-direct it that direction anyway.
> As for the 400mg working best for most people, maybe the doc. will increase her dosage up higher in the future.....I just don't know if he knows how high she should go. -Las for Herman munster, let's just ignore that whole issue... some people are better off ignored... they thrive on the attention their behaviour receives...
and if the only time they receive attention is when their behaviour is negative that suits them just fine...
better not to play into that game...
other times it is someone trying a blind test for a psych paper in college...
have seen that one a few times...
just ignore the child until it learns to behave properly --- recognise the proper behaviour and ignore the negative is the way they taught us to react back in child psych 101 <g>
kat
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2004, at 20:55:30
In reply to Re: change of subject, posted by HermanMunster on November 28, 2004, at 23:57:53
> You need to reach an orgazam.
>
> I prescribe you going out and getting a good lay.Please be supportive.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2004, at 21:05:54
In reply to Re: Herman Munster and eating disorder/topamax/new » stresser, posted by headachequeen on November 29, 2004, at 19:58:05
> just ignore the child until it learns to behave properly --- recognise the proper behaviour and ignore the negative is the way they taught us to react back in child psych 101
Sorry, but:
> replies to the above post ... should of course themselves be civil.
If you want to encourage others not to respond, one civil way to do that is to post something like:
> Different points of view are fine, but sometimes discussions just lead to discord and it may be best just not to respond.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2004, at 23:35:37
In reply to Re: please be supportive » HermanMunster, posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2004, at 20:55:30
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/422145.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on November 30, 2004, at 17:04:18
In reply to Re: please be civil » headachequeen, posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2004, at 21:05:54
Brilliant phrasing. I've bookmarked this one - I suspect I'll have lots of use for it.
Posted by rainy on November 30, 2004, at 20:24:32
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on November 30, 2004, at 17:04:18
Hi, AuntieMel. Usually we don't have to use tamping down techniques. People are pretty supportive of each other on this board although we don't always agree with what each other says and our experiences with medications vary widely. Are you on Topamax too? It would be good to have a fresh voice on the board.
rainy
Posted by iris2 on November 30, 2004, at 22:18:02
In reply to Re: Herman Munster and eating disorder/topamax/new, posted by stresser on November 29, 2004, at 17:06:52
Okay 400mg of Topamax works best for what specific symptoms?
irene
Posted by headachequeen on November 30, 2004, at 23:33:24
In reply to Re: Herman Munster and eating disorder/topamax/new » stresser, posted by iris2 on November 30, 2004, at 22:18:02
> Okay 400mg of Topamax works best for what specific symptoms?
>
> ireneAt 400 mg it works best at supporting other AEDs for one thing and it seems to achieve its best side effect (have to stress that I think) work regarding appetite suppressant work...
several people I know who are using the medication for other reasons found that when they reached that level it really worked at suppressing the appetite as well as achieving its main role...
either migraine suppression or AED support...
Others found that when they reached this level it also helped in supporting their attempts to control Bipolar II...
Some of these people I have been trying to convince to enter into these discussions as I think they might find some of the discussions and some of the support helpful...
still working at it...
kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on December 1, 2004, at 14:07:25
In reply to Re: Herman Munster and eating disorder/topamax/new » iris2, posted by headachequeen on November 30, 2004, at 23:33:24
I am still at 200mg and doing well so far, even with my bipolar II. I suspect eventually I will have to go up on it but for the mean time I am ok. I don't WANT to have to go up on it because I am just now feeling like I am getting beyond the stupids but I have noticed a lot of errors in my typing. So it seems to be switching. This is odd for me. Normally it's my speech and not my typing that is affected. I have also been really REALLY tired lately and my right shoulder has been KILLING me. Went to the chiro today and he got a good adjustment so hoping that will help. My birthday present is a good "rolfing" which I hope will help work out some of these huge crunchy knots I have had forever all over my back, neck and hips. It's also the day of my audition so I am hoping that I am not so sore I can't do the dance they are making us learn at the audition! Has anyone had it done before? I sure do with insurance would cover massage therapy. I really think people would get a lot LESS sick if they covered that but of course they won't because GASP! IT FEELS GOOD!!! Can't have that now. We have to be in misery before they cover something. I better not tell them they cover that massage table at my chiro. I should tell them to label it...TABLE OF MISERY AND HORROR!! Maybe they would cover more...hmmm
Posted by rainy on December 1, 2004, at 14:49:04
In reply to Topomax and bipolar II, posted by bridgey1128 on December 1, 2004, at 14:07:25
You've probably mentioned and I've forgotten, but are you on any other meds besides Topamax? I noticed Kat said 400 mgs was an effective dose as an antiepilesy drug but I haven't heard or read anything about what an effective mood stabilizing dose is. It seems from the literature that there's a general agreement that doses above 400 aren't much more effective that those at 400. (My typing sucks too.)
I think in January we'll order my Top from Canada. Without insurance it'll be cheaper than here, even with Drugstore.com. where I've been getting most of my meds.
Know what you mean about coverage, Bridgey. We've been paying over $900/mo for the two of us and there's still co pay. We may save money when I lose mine.
rainy
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