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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 289 to 313 of 735. Go back in thread:
Posted by kananee on April 20, 2004, at 21:17:48
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers, posted by Markku on April 20, 2004, at 11:51:28
Thanks, Laura and markku. I'm noticing too that carbs help, and coffee, coca cola and chocolate make it a lot worse -- bad things I love that now just the thought of makes me nauseous!
Has anybody heard about a potential new AD -- perhaps being tested in U.K. -- that's neither an SSRI nor a SNRI but may rely on something called an SP Antagonist? (I have no clue what an SP Antagonist is.)
While searching for info on Effexor side effects and withdrawal symptoms, I saw an abstract for a medical research paper that I couldn't access since I'm not a doc. What interested me was a statement about its (SP Antagonist drug) being used to treat both MDD and IBS.
Laura, a special thanks to you for being such a caring and nurturing person. I had noticed that as I read through the posts, and I am glad to have been a beneficiary of your kindness. I really needed it.
Posted by jiggitykid on April 21, 2004, at 18:13:27
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers, posted by kananee on April 20, 2004, at 21:17:48
>>> and coffee, coca cola and chocolate make it a lot worse -- bad things I love that now just the thought of makes me nauseous!<<<
For me, it's the caffeine. Decaf coke, etc., doesn't bother me at all. Give me caff, and I'm running to the potty!!
I don't suppose they make decaf chocolate, though, huh ;-(?
Posted by Keith Talent on April 21, 2004, at 20:21:28
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers » kananee, posted by jiggitykid on April 21, 2004, at 18:13:27
I've read here and elsewhere that Effexor is almost identical in structure to tramadol (Ultram), an opioid painkiller. I know that opioids cause constipation, and when opioid-dependent people withdraw (e.g. heroin) they get diarrhoea. Maybe there's something in that?
Posted by jiggitykid on April 21, 2004, at 21:47:38
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers, posted by Keith Talent on April 21, 2004, at 20:21:28
>>>I've read here and elsewhere that Effexor is almost identical in structure to tramadol (Ultram), an opioid painkiller.<<<
That's interesting. I have a pain disorder (IA and FM) and was prescribed ultram while I was taking effexor. My doctor didn't catch the "do not use if you're taking. . ." warning. Thank goodness I'm my best medical watchdog. I always check out what I'm being given before it ever touches my lips. Now that I'm E-free, I occasionally use Ultram if I am having trouble staying asleep (the pain wakes me up). It's not an outstanding pain killer, but it at least can take the edge off of the pain enough for me to be able to go back to sleep.
I envy my spouse who takes the occasional Ibuprofen for muscle soreness. How wonderful would that be, to not need medications. But, how wonderful it is that there are medications that really do help and make a decent life possible now. At my age, my mother battled the same things that I have (says a lot for heredity!) and didn't have nearly the arsenal that I have to combat the illnesses with. I'm grateful for the meds that work. When one comes along in this day and age where "pop a pill" is the common solution that is as destructive as Effexor was for me and many others (reported and unreported), it is frustrating. My heart aches for the people who don't know about this board and are dealing with the hell of the Effexor problems alone. I can't tell you how relieved I was to discover that what I was experiencing was not unique and that I wasn't "crazy."
Thanks, Dr. Bob.
Posted by kananee on April 21, 2004, at 23:00:37
In reply to Re: Questions but no answers, posted by Keith Talent on April 21, 2004, at 20:21:28
> I've read here and elsewhere that Effexor is almost identical in structure to tramadol (Ultram), an opioid painkiller. I know that opioids cause constipation, and when opioid-dependent people withdraw (e.g. heroin) they get diarrhoea. Maybe there's something in that?>
Wow!! My older daughter was, sadly, a heroin addict (and bipolar) and died from a supposedly accidental overdose just before Christmas 2003. Just today I was telling my younger daughter that this Effexor withdrawaI feels like what her sister used to describe when she was trying to get clean: the flu-like stuff, nausea, stomach cramps, fever, chills, brain shivers, etc etc etc
Now I understand why. Yipes, this is scary stuff. I think I'll try to live without antidepressants when I finally get this awful drug out of my system.
I especially feel for those of you who post here who have severe and painful physical problems in addition to the depression. I can't imagine what this withdrawal must be like for you.
jiggitykid: Here's what we need: A decaf, fat free, sugar free chocolate that tastes as good as Haagen Daz chocolate ice cream!
Posted by wibbles on April 23, 2004, at 1:55:36
In reply to Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by Becky on October 2, 1999, at 22:03:30
OMG I am SO glad to have found these postings, thank U all. I thought I was insane. Niether the doctor that put me on exefore nor the pharmacist had a clue what was going on. Worst part were the dreams......and they didnt stop when i was awake. I so thought I would be trapped like that for ever. I cant believe I was given such a dangerous drug with so little information about it (That said, i am a student nurse, and MIMS...our subscription guidline book..doesnt list many of the withdrawal effects).
Dont even think i WAS depressed, not B4 the effexor
Posted by jiggitykid on April 23, 2004, at 7:48:02
In reply to Withdrawal. MIMS doesnt list these ones, posted by wibbles on April 23, 2004, at 1:55:36
Hi - congrats on finding the board. I was as relieved and happy as you sound.
If you don't mind my asking, why would a doc have put you on effexor if you don't think you were depressed to begin with? A lady I know was put on lexapro as a "just in case" medication after her hysterectomy. That's not safe, IMO. I understand wanting to make sure she didn't have a bad experience, but shouldn't the doc have waited and monitored her before giving her something like an antidepressant?
Anyway, go back through the archives (if you haven't already) and read up on all of the experiences here. Frankly, as awful as this experience is for you, your patients will benefit from your experience with this. You can use this as an opportunity to "educate" doctors. All of us need to "educate" our medical professionals, since the FDA and the drug companies don't plan to. Take care of yourself and hang in there!! Thanks for your post.
> OMG I am SO glad to have found these postings, thank U all. I thought I was insane. Niether the doctor that put me on exefore nor the pharmacist had a clue what was going on. Worst part were the dreams......and they didnt stop when i was awake. I so thought I would be trapped like that for ever. I cant believe I was given such a dangerous drug with so little information about it (That said, i am a student nurse, and MIMS...our subscription guidline book..doesnt list many of the withdrawal effects).
>
> Dont even think i WAS depressed, not B4 the effexor
Posted by Sachikon on April 25, 2004, at 19:05:36
In reply to Re: Horrible Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » Iceofire, posted by hageshe on April 10, 2003, at 16:35:09
I was on Effexor for 3 years 150mg. Like you I realized that my life was being slowly sucked away from me. I was sleeping all the time and had no energy even when awake. My mental capacity was diminished and dull.
I quit cold turky about 6 weeks ago and thought I'd never make it. The shivers finally subsided after about 3 weeks. I still experience them if I haven't had enough sleep or if I consume any alcohol. The dreams and restless nights are down to about once or twice a week.
Despite the continued withdrawal things are so much better! I really, really encourage you to try again to get past week 2. Things really started imporoving around that time. After week 3 I began to feel free and alive. My mind is becoming sharper every day and I'm feeling better than I remember feeling in ages. My husband says he's finally getting his wife back.
I know I am getting my life back in ways I am only beginning to realize.
I know it is difficult. I thought I was going to go crazy many, many times the first week or two. Try and find strength in counting down the days and know that it will get better. It will be worth the pain of quitting.
I wish you the best of luck and will be "pulling" for you to make it. -S
Posted by kananee on April 25, 2004, at 23:22:22
In reply to Brain Shivers Effexor Withdrawal, posted by Sachikon on March 13, 2004, at 22:54:23
> > > Here is a series of articles on Brain Shivers that taught me a lot....
> > >
> > > http://depression.about.com/cs/venlafaxine/a/brainshivers.htm>; > >I went to this link but couldn't get to p. 4, which supposedly explains what causes these things. Is there anyone who got to p 4 and can explain the cause?
BTW, for me it's definitely related to turning my head, sidetoside or upanddown, and I think of it as two little devils on either side of my head, playing electric ping-pong: Zap, Zap; Zap, Zap. I can actually hear the sound as well as feel the "electric shock."
Day 10 of being Effexor-free. Most physical symptoms are much improved. What's plaguing me now are the brain zaps (which aren't as bad), crying jags and, the worst: A really mean paranoid spirit has taken over my mind and body. Several of you have mentioned "PMS" behavior. Does this go away? Do I need an exorcist? (I'm only partially kidding -- this personna is not someone I am or want to be. ) Any advice?
Posted by Jiggitykid on April 26, 2004, at 7:58:41
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » Sachikon, posted by kananee on April 25, 2004, at 23:22:22
>>>A really mean paranoid spirit has taken over my mind and body. Several of you have mentioned "PMS" behavior. Does this go away?<<<
Yes, it is normal and it does go away (at least, it did for me ;-) ). This very thing is the part that my mother saw, and worried that I needed another antidepressant to soften it. I didn't want to do that, so I tried to remind myself that this was part of the withdrawal and not a part of me. Telling those around me that this was going on and that I wasn't just a big ol' meanie helped, too. Patience is the biggest gift you can give yourself. For me, it took approx. 2 months before my personality began to settle back into place.
It has been since just after Halloween '03 when I quit taking effexor cold-turkey. The first two weeks were horrible, the third week was bad but tolerable, then it began to get better. Occasionally, I still wake up with the "zaps," or the brain shivers, but that is becoming more and more rare. It snuck up on me night-before-last and was quite a surprise.
Take care of yourself. Be patient and be gentle with yourself. Hang in there!
Posted by kananee on April 26, 2004, at 8:12:36
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » kananee, posted by Jiggitykid on April 26, 2004, at 7:58:41
Thanks, Jiggitykid. At least I know it's temporary. Some of the people I care about most -- my family -- are the least understanding. "Everybody has problems -- you're just being a drama queen" etc. So it's somewhat a question of how many will be left standing at the end.
Posted by Jiggitykid on April 26, 2004, at 8:19:09
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » Jiggitykid, posted by kananee on April 26, 2004, at 8:12:36
>>>drama queen<<<
I know - they can be the hardest. If you think they'll listen (and I've got those in my family and my in-laws who truly won't listen), then you might send them here, or print out some of the testimonies from others and share them. Also, have you signed the petition yet? You might direct them toward the petition and the numbers of others who have been affected this way. The "drama queen" title won't hold much water then! 4750 signatures does not one drama queen make ;-).
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/effexor/petition.html
Posted by Sachikon on April 26, 2004, at 12:22:43
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » kananee, posted by Jiggitykid on April 26, 2004, at 7:58:41
My experience was very similar. I quit cold-turkey after almost 4 years on 150mg. The first two weeks were a nightmare. I thought I might die or just go crazy. Week 3 things slowly improved. I'm at 6 weeks and starting to feel better than I have in years. I still have "shivers" but certainly not everyday. It's worse when I'm tired. I wish you the best of luck! Hang in there I know it's rough but it is so worth it! -S
Posted by Sachikon on April 26, 2004, at 12:27:43
In reply to Re: Brain Shivers » Sachikon, posted by kananee on April 25, 2004, at 23:22:22
I believe I have page 4 printed out. I'll check and get back to the post asap! Also congratulations on making it so far! I know for me things started improving during week 3 and from there on out it has gotten better and better. I hope this means you are almost in the home stretch as well. I'm at week 6 and I feel more alive and awake than I have in years. Good luck!! -S
Posted by Is it over yet on May 1, 2004, at 21:32:20
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by karen t bag on October 15, 2003, at 11:15:31
Hi,
I'm new here & don't know if you're still around, but I'd be really interested on seeing that list from your nutritionist......
Also, I'm almost afraid to ask, but does anyone have any experiences with pregnancy/trying to get pregnant? I want to make sure the effexor is totally out of my system before I start.
Thanks!
Posted by TechEd on May 17, 2004, at 16:03:51
In reply to Withdrawal. MIMS doesnt list these ones, posted by wibbles on April 23, 2004, at 1:55:36
Hi,
I also find this site very helpful and know that I am not crazy. I've been on this damn drug for about half a year. Trying to get rid of it now. Had experienced electrical shocks the first week when I reduced from 2 pills(150mg) per day to 1(75mg) while I thought it was safe to stop taking it 2 days ago, I tried skip it for one day. End up with shocks whenever I tried moving my eye balls from side to side and when I turned my body direction or trying to follow anything with my eyes. Terrible feelings. I hope this medication be banned from selling. Any one know hot to minimize this brain zap side effects? I need help. Also, I couldnt sleep at night. When I finally being able to sleep, I would have vivid nightmares which I can still remember with details.
> OMG I am SO glad to have found these postings, thank U all. I thought I was insane. Niether the doctor that put me on exefore nor the pharmacist had a clue what was going on. Worst part were the dreams......and they didnt stop when i was awake. I so thought I would be trapped like that for ever. I cant believe I was given such a dangerous drug with so little information about it (That said, i am a student nurse, and MIMS...our subscription guidline book..doesnt list many of the withdrawal effects).
>
> Dont even think i WAS depressed, not B4 the effexor
Posted by jtaanreat on May 18, 2004, at 9:56:31
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! » karen t bag, posted by Is it over yet on May 1, 2004, at 21:32:20
I am so glad to have found this site. Due to insurance changes forcing me to change drs., and not being able to get a quick appointment with the new dr., I am facing a black hole of about three weeks without my Effexor. I have been on 300 mg for about 7 years, when my 18-year-old son was in an accident that eventually led to his death two years later. I am so sick, experiencing much of what has been mentioned. I'm so thankful to know I'm not going crazy! Dealing with grief is hard enough. The sickness is making it doubly so. Rms. 8:28 is an encouragement to me - was glad to see it mentioned also. Life sure is hard.
Posted by KimberlyDi on May 18, 2004, at 10:44:23
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by jtaanreat on May 18, 2004, at 9:56:31
Go to a Family Wellness Clinic or any place that accepts "walk ins". Explain your situation and ask if there's any way you could get a "starter" pack of Effexor to tied you over until you can make your next appointment. Lots of doctors are given samples of Effexor. Someone will help you out.
God Bless and Good Luck!
KDi in TX
> I am so glad to have found this site. Due to insurance changes forcing me to change drs., and not being able to get a quick appointment with the new dr., I am facing a black hole of about three weeks without my Effexor. I have been on 300 mg for about 7 years, when my 18-year-old son was in an accident that eventually led to his death two years later. I am so sick, experiencing much of what has been mentioned. I'm so thankful to know I'm not going crazy! Dealing with grief is hard enough. The sickness is making it doubly so. Rms. 8:28 is an encouragement to me - was glad to see it mentioned also. Life sure is hard.
Posted by seanwrx on May 18, 2004, at 21:03:38
In reply to Cold Turkey after 7 years on 300mg? get help » jtaanreat, posted by KimberlyDi on May 18, 2004, at 10:44:23
I have had the unfortunate experience of coming off of Effexor (twice actually, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me). My pDoc didn't know what I was talking about in regards to the brain shivers and the like. I think they figured that since other patients have come off the drug and not, you know, died or anything that it must not be that bad.
Anyway, those symptoms do go away (the severe physical ones, flu-like symptons, brain shivers, etc) but the toughest maybe an increase in anxiety and depression. That suggestion to get some samples is a good one - most places will do that if you go in an explain the situation. If you are looking to get off the drug for whatever reason, this 'forced' reason might be the push you need. If you can't get any more of the drug and taper off just know that it will work itself out of your system and you will feel better.
Benadryl at night to sleep seemed to be benificial (if Benadryl is sedating for you, its not always for some people).
Its going to be a tough couple weeks, but hang in there.
-S
Posted by gabby77 on May 31, 2004, at 18:13:23
In reply to Re: Cold Turkey after 7 years on 300mg? get help, posted by seanwrx on May 18, 2004, at 21:03:38
I was just diagnosed about 10 days ago with bipolar ii after YEARS of suffering depression. Last thursday my dr too me off 300 mg effexor cold turkey....added 1000 mg depakote and i feel like death...puking...head ache, tears, tired, can't sleep, hungry can't eat, shakes, cold, hot...HELP!!! I feel like death would be less difficult!!
Posted by Jiggitykid on May 31, 2004, at 19:15:32
In reply to weaning off effexor after 3 years at 300 mgs, posted by gabby77 on May 31, 2004, at 18:13:23
First and foremost, your sentiment is understood completely, but please remember that death would make the entire world left behind you more difficult. It's not a solution. There were times during my withdrawal that I had similar thoughts, but the faces of those around me who care about me coupled with the knowledge that this is TEMPORARY and will indeed pass kept me focused on staying right here.
Second, clearly your doctor has NO CLUE about withdrawal from effexor. It is horrible. I urge you to check out the archives here and share with your doctor the TRUE withdrawal symptoms experienced. For some, slow weaning with the aid of other drugs made a big difference. For me, I withdrew cold-turkey from 250 mgs per day. It was awful, but the really bad symptoms lasted approx. 2 weeks, with lessening there for about a month. After that month, things began to feel more "normal" for me, and now, after nearly 6 months of being effexor-free, I'm fine, except for some blurred vision (who knows if this is residual or not, but my vision was fine before the effexor). Since I have a pain disorder as well, pain killers helped me through the worst of the physical pain and the brain shivers. Others have said that benedryl has helped the "zaps." Please, until the zaps and the vision problems abate, refrain from driving at night.
All of the symptoms you are describing are "normal" for effexor withdrawal. My heart is breaking for you as I write this, because no amount of support or prayer I offer over the computer can really help make you feel better. Hopefully, just knowing that you are not alone, you are not crazy and you are not making this up will at least give you the support to keep going forward. Please, don't give up. Make sure that those around you know what is going on and that it is REAL and that you cannot help how you are feeling right now. You need all of the support you can get. Again, make noise with your doctor and let him/her know that this withdrawal is not merely the complaints of a noisy few, but a horrible, true condition that the drug companies KNOW about and just aren't telling.
Please, if your doctor refuses to acknowledge any of this as being true, search until you find a doctor who does. Take care of yourself. You are in my prayers.
> I was just diagnosed about 10 days ago with bipolar ii after YEARS of suffering depression. Last thursday my dr too me off 300 mg effexor cold turkey....added 1000 mg depakote and i feel like death...puking...head ache, tears, tired, can't sleep, hungry can't eat, shakes, cold, hot...HELP!!! I feel like death would be less difficult!!
Posted by gabby77 on May 31, 2004, at 21:54:42
In reply to Re: weaning off effexor after 3 years at 300 mgs, posted by Jiggitykid on May 31, 2004, at 19:15:32
Than you so much!! To know I am not alone is a blessig! I have a beautiful 5 year old who keeps me going, but this phyical pain is emmense. I am hoping tomorrow my dr will give me something to make this less severe....my little girl is so worried about me and i have been staying with my parents so my husband is wondering when i will be home...
i am so blessed to have found this page; it makes me feels so much better to know my symptoms have been felt by others.
Thank you for your prayers and support and I will keep you posted!
Thanks again!!
Posted by Jiggitykid on June 1, 2004, at 10:18:34
In reply to weaning off effexor after 3 years at 300 mgs, posted by gabby77 on May 31, 2004, at 21:54:42
Small world - I have a five-year-old, too. She was my biggest source of strength, determination and comfort during this, because she needed Mommy to get well. This page truly saved my sanity - I was sooo sick and sooo scared, and when I found this page and saw that I wasn't crazy, I gathered strength from it.
Love your family; love yourself. Take care!!
> Than you so much!! To know I am not alone is a blessig! I have a beautiful 5 year old who keeps me going, but this phyical pain is emmense. I am hoping tomorrow my dr will give me something to make this less severe....my little girl is so worried about me and i have been staying with my parents so my husband is wondering when i will be home...
>
> i am so blessed to have found this page; it makes me feels so much better to know my symptoms have been felt by others.
>
> Thank you for your prayers and support and I will keep you posted!
>
> Thanks again!!
Posted by boatsie on June 2, 2004, at 16:49:56
In reply to Re: weaning off effexor after 3 years at 300 mgs, posted by Jiggitykid on June 1, 2004, at 10:18:34
I am lying on my couch with this horrid headache and trying to remember if I re-upped my Effexor to 300 (i had been down to 150 for two days and at the same time cutting back on ativan and lorazepam). I am 53 and have been on medication for 9 years. My psychiatrist recently went to a seminar at Stanford in which the report was that NO ONE who has suffered a severe psychotic break can hope to live free of medication ...!! (Yes, i pointed out to her that ONLY the drug companies are doing research now and how many patients does she have who are trying to get off meds now... and this is a psy that i trust but she has her vision .... )
I read all your postings after rising from couch -- brain zaps, the hampster dance in the chest (is this that cortisone rush thing?), the fear of going to sleep, the hallucinogenic nightmares, thought disorders...... ALL the symptoms we treated and which start to reapear when i try to lower ativan...Yesterday, I had the beginnings of this incredible headache, weakenss in arms and hands and legs, depression, long sleep,
Noone ever told me about effexor's short life..... I don't know what to address first, the effexor or the ativan/lorazepam .....
Has anyone received support from a doctor? Is there any professional out there that has done the research on withdrawal....
And is there hope for leading a normal life after withdrawal. I am so frightened.
Can someone please respond?
Posted by Jiggitykid on June 2, 2004, at 18:00:37
In reply to Re: weaning off effexor after 3 years at 300 mgs, posted by boatsie on June 2, 2004, at 16:49:56
You are farther along than I have any "expertise." I can tell you that I am meds free right now and am fine, but this varies with each person and with each condition. The biggest problem, IMO, with trying to get off of effexor is that the withdrawal symptoms mimic many of the symptoms we were trying to treat. I echo your feelings about the research - I don't trust the drug companies. I hope someone else here can give you more/better information, particularly your question about doctors. I switched doctors after the effexor problem, but went through the withdrawals alone.
Again, please, someone here respond with more detailed information or recommendations for someone to contact.
Take care of yourself - the withdrawal stinks. My suggestion to you (as to many others) is that you go back through the archives here and print out the many shared withdrawal symptoms (and visit the petition page) and show your doctor. We aren't making this up and we aren't a noisy minority. I'm glad you found this page - I can't tell you how much this helped me!!
> I am lying on my couch with this horrid headache and trying to remember if I re-upped my Effexor to 300 (i had been down to 150 for two days and at the same time cutting back on ativan and lorazepam). I am 53 and have been on medication for 9 years. My psychiatrist recently went to a seminar at Stanford in which the report was that NO ONE who has suffered a severe psychotic break can hope to live free of medication ...!! (Yes, i pointed out to her that ONLY the drug companies are doing research now and how many patients does she have who are trying to get off meds now... and this is a psy that i trust but she has her vision .... )
> I read all your postings after rising from couch -- brain zaps, the hampster dance in the chest (is this that cortisone rush thing?), the fear of going to sleep, the hallucinogenic nightmares, thought disorders...... ALL the symptoms we treated and which start to reapear when i try to lower ativan...
>
> Yesterday, I had the beginnings of this incredible headache, weakenss in arms and hands and legs, depression, long sleep,
>
> Noone ever told me about effexor's short life..... I don't know what to address first, the effexor or the ativan/lorazepam .....
> Has anyone received support from a doctor? Is there any professional out there that has done the research on withdrawal....
> And is there hope for leading a normal life after withdrawal. I am so frightened.
> Can someone please respond?
>
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