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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by katia on January 22, 2004, at 15:11:28
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects, weight gain?, posted by Dalilah on January 20, 2004, at 20:36:34
Hi Dalilah,
I think we talked about this before. I was on a small dose 6.25mg of Seroquel for sleep in conjunction with other meds - Lam./Depakote and then just Lam. and then Lam/Lithium and then just LIthium. Now I'm on nothing but Seroquel for sleep at 25mg+ now. And I'm having a hard time maintaining weight much less losing it. I'm heavier than I ever have been. Do you find at 50mg that you have a similar problem?
Katia
Posted by Dalilah on January 22, 2004, at 21:20:04
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects, weight gain?, posted by Tiss on January 22, 2004, at 11:48:39
Right on Sister!
I'm here to tell you no matter how good our doctor's are, they just don't know it like we know it (unless it's a bipolar doctor.) I've had to override my doctor, take myself off meds, and complain loudly. But nothing hurts more than when they don't believe you. And you're right, that's what these boards are for.As far as your dilemma, finding the right meds, good luck. I too found Lamictal causing major irritability (and mild hypomania) when my dose increased but it always went away after a week or so. Just ride it out if you can. In terms of sleep, I can't say. Doesn't matter what I'm on I always need my seroquel to put me down at night and allow me to sleep through the night.
KATIA,
Seroquel has not affected my weight at 50mg, but I know it did for some of my friends. My doc says it shouldn't at these low doses. I tend to think he's right, and it's just getting the other meds right. But who the hell knows? It's different for everyone.Dalilah
> > > Hello,
> > > I can honestly say that since Lamictal has began working (300mg) and therefore keeping me active, not in bed all day, I have lost weight! Really. I took off all the pounds put on at the hospital and then some.
> > >
> > > However, I know that seroquel can be a nasty weight gainer. I take only a small amount (50mg) for sleep and the mild psychosis. My sister takes a lot of seroquel and she's gained a lot, most to be blamed on depakote.
> > >
> >
> >
> > dalilah,
> >
> > thanx a lot for the insight, i have read many a success story about lamictal and believe i will probably give it a try... although, i am increasingly nervous about weight gain, anxiety and insomnia sometimes caused by its usage.
> >
> > at this point i have nothing to lose (except 60lbs.) and this trial holds a lot of promise ... because i take both a GABA drug and seroquel (famously sedative) i could use the "activating" effect of lamictal.
> >
> I am so glad to find this forum. I am 47 and have had trouble my whole life with mood instability. My mother was an alcoholic bi-polar, very suicidal for many years. No fun at all. Then I suffered a trauma when I was 15 that caused severe PTSD. So to make a long story short, I've suffered from depression, anxiety, and PTSD for a long time and have been on just about every medication that's been made. My dr. put me on Lamictal 3 months ago and initially I loved the great energy boost, but then, after a few hours-BAM- I felt horrible! I could not sleep either. So I started dividing it into small doses during the day which I thought would work. This is what I experienced-terrible agitation and irritability. I was screaming at my family for NO REASON! I felt out of control. I also felt somewhat hypomanic, which is what happens when I've taken SSRI's. As a last resort, my Dr. has put me on Xanax XR .5mg/day. My thoughts have calmed down, not angry anxious or irritable. I guess you could say I feel much more normal. THat being said, I do not like the idea of taking benzos long term, but I also want a life. What to do? THese are hard decisions to make. BTW, my Dr. did NOT believe me when he heard me say that I felt manicky, angry and irritable and couldn't sleep. Said he's never heard of lamictal doing that before. I told him he needs to get on the internet and look at forums and message boards that have REAL PEOPLE talking about their experiences! Thanks for listening, Tiss
Posted by Toph on January 26, 2004, at 15:27:18
In reply to Re: Lamictal, question for, posted by lesliekay on August 11, 2003, at 2:14:28
I've been reading with interest this thred on Lamictal. I am 50+ bi-polar who in the 70's suffered extreme manic and depressed episodes requiring multiple hospitalizations. When I finally accepted my Dx and lithium, this magic drug ceased all psychosis and has kept me stable for 23 years. Problem is, everyone says I'm depressed - as in dysthymia, the blues. While I'm staying out of the hospital I generally think that self-esteem and happiness have eluded me despite a decent job, wonderful wife and fairly well-adjusted kids. Next week my shrink (do only 50-year olds affectionately call their doc a shrink?) wants to try me on Lamictal. From what I read it's not a happy drug but may lift some of the blues. I'm willing to give it a try, but after all your advise I will look out for insomnia, agitation and the dreaded rash. The last 20 years have been "normal" but I hope this drug will help me like myself and life in general a little more.
Posted by Tiss on January 26, 2004, at 16:39:01
In reply to Re: Lamictal, question for, posted by Toph on January 26, 2004, at 15:27:18
I hope Lamictal works for you. Some people call it their miracle drug!
Posted by Dalilah on January 26, 2004, at 17:51:34
In reply to Re: Lamictal, question for, posted by Toph on January 26, 2004, at 15:27:18
Good luck to you.
I found I needed this drug in addition to lithium to get me out of depression. Remember it takes awhile before the Lamictal starts working and you have to go up slow. I didn't feel relief til 250mg +
By the way, most of my friends call their doc their shrink, but I don't for some reason?
Dalilah
> I've been reading with interest this thred on Lamictal. I am 50+ bi-polar who in the 70's suffered extreme manic and depressed episodes requiring multiple hospitalizations. When I finally accepted my Dx and lithium, this magic drug ceased all psychosis and has kept me stable for 23 years. Problem is, everyone says I'm depressed - as in dysthymia, the blues. While I'm staying out of the hospital I generally think that self-esteem and happiness have eluded me despite a decent job, wonderful wife and fairly well-adjusted kids. Next week my shrink (do only 50-year olds affectionately call their doc a shrink?) wants to try me on Lamictal. From what I read it's not a happy drug but may lift some of the blues. I'm willing to give it a try, but after all your advise I will look out for insomnia, agitation and the dreaded rash. The last 20 years have been "normal" but I hope this drug will help me like myself and life in general a little more.
Posted by ann72 on January 27, 2004, at 7:40:33
In reply to Re: Lamictal, question for, posted by Dalilah on January 26, 2004, at 17:51:34
Hello, I just started taking lamictal a week ago because even with effexor i was still very depressed. So, Im trying this. As long as the rash doesnt develope give it a try.
Good Luck to both of us...
ANN
Posted by Toph on January 27, 2004, at 9:03:04
In reply to Re: Lamictal, question for, posted by ann72 on January 27, 2004, at 7:40:33
I appreciate the good wishes Tiss, Dalilah and Ann. I am extremely wary about starting another medication besides Li, not so much the fear of instigating a manic episode, but just the idea of altering brain chemistry gives me the creeps. If I get some more enjoyment out of life and become a better husband and father it will be worth it. Good luck to you all as well.
Posted by Flipsactown on January 27, 2004, at 14:42:07
In reply to Re: Lamictal, question for, posted by Toph on January 27, 2004, at 9:03:04
Hello Toph,
I take it that "li" is short for lithium. If that is so, were you successful with li alone for the most part? I just started li going in to 2 weeks to augment the lamictal, prozac and remeron I am also taking. It is my hope that I will be able to just be on lamictal and lithium. What do you think?
Flipsactown
> I appreciate the good wishes Tiss, Dalilah and Ann. I am extremely wary about starting another medication besides Li, not so much the fear of instigating a manic episode, but just the idea of altering brain chemistry gives me the creeps. If I get some more enjoyment out of life and become a better husband and father it will be worth it. Good luck to you all as well.
Posted by Toph on January 28, 2004, at 13:38:26
In reply to Re: Lamictal, question for » Toph, posted by Flipsactown on January 27, 2004, at 14:42:07
> Hello Toph,
>
> I take it that "li" is short for lithium. If that is so, were you successful with li alone for the most part? I just started li going in to 2 weeks to augment the lamictal, prozac and remeron I am also taking. It is my hope that I will be able to just be on lamictal and lithium. What do you think?
>
> Flipsactown>
You've got quite a cocktail of meds there Flip, I'm not sure how you tell the individual effects of each when they are mixed together. Lithium effectively ended my psychotic manic and depressed episodes. Li works miracles with many classic bipolars but not all. I'm lucky to not have many side-effects except some diarrhea that I can live with. I am looking for a little help with persistant mild depression (as opposed to disabling clinical depression). I'm scheduled to try Lamictal in about a month (my next dr appt). I'll report on how it worked (or didn't).
Posted by delna on February 3, 2004, at 12:09:40
In reply to Coffee and Lamictal agitating combo for bipolars?, posted by lizbeth on December 23, 2003, at 11:17:34
Hi,
I'm rsponding to a prevous post- quite late in the day. However I too have also noticed that with coffee (even 1 cup) and Lamictal I become really aggitated and need quite a few rivotrils and inderals to bring to a normal state of calm. I am also on wellbutrin and suprisingly 300mg+Lamictal 200mg and effexor xr 37.5 keep me at a good level of steadiness. BUT add coffee and i am a total mess- even when i cut the wellbutrin out.
Its wierd- but I too have noticed this pattern.
I dont know the science behind it but my experience has been very clear and it is really awful. I am also Bipolar II
Thnx
> My issue is that lately, no matter how little coffee and/or caffeine I have in the morning, I get very agitated within a short period of time. My psychopharmacologist simplified it as such: unlike stimulants like Adderall, which create dopamine in the system (and are bad news for non-ADD bipolars, IMHO and experience), caffeine simply raises the ceiling on the amount of dopamine that's possibly available. Lamictal's effect on glutamate indirectly raises dopamine and norepinephrine (sp) and perhaps this increased dopamine gets magnified by caffeine?
>
> Yikes. Anyone else had similar reactions? I know one of you (Fluffy?) mentioned it.
Posted by alathea on February 4, 2004, at 0:36:48
In reply to Re: Coffee and Lamictal agitating combo for bipolars? » lizbeth, posted by delna on February 3, 2004, at 12:09:40
I don't understand. I've just read almost all your posts (which is a miracle in itself since wellbutrin makes me rapid cycle, apparently although we only just figured that out, but it explains a lot) anyway--I'm stopping the wellbutrin--BECAUSE--
my pdoc wants me starting on lamictal, but I have MAJOR rage problems (when I'm not morbidly depressed) but from a lot of these posts it sounds like Lamictal is going to be just as bad as Wellbutrin?
I actually had two relatively stable years on tegratol and wellbutrin, but I went off the tegratol because I was worried about my liver and it was screwing up my skin--but I'm afraid everything does that.....oh yeah, and coffee....BAD NEWS!!! As if I'm not already clenching my teeth without any caffiene in my system.
I don't know. I never want to take my meds--until I'm so effing miserable that I go crying to my pdoc willing to take anything he says, for a little while.......
Posted by Dalilah on February 4, 2004, at 11:53:07
In reply to My pdoc is Crazy????? (and coffee too), posted by alathea on February 4, 2004, at 0:36:48
For what it's worth, Wellbutrin made me unbearably rage-ful. Lamictal sometimes made me irritable when I increased the dosage, but it only last for about 3 days. I seem to need Lithium with my Lamictal. There's no doubt Lamictal is the only thing that relieved my depression, when I got to a high dose (300mg for me.)
I never ever ever drink coffee - NO WAY. But it's got nothing to do with Lamictal. I think it has to do with my bipolar, cause it always takes me on a teeth cletching horrible icky not fun "high."
And I'm sure you know, I don't think any of these things work unless you take them regularly.
-Dalilah
> I don't understand. I've just read almost all your posts (which is a miracle in itself since wellbutrin makes me rapid cycle, apparently although we only just figured that out, but it explains a lot) anyway--I'm stopping the wellbutrin--BECAUSE--
>
> my pdoc wants me starting on lamictal, but I have MAJOR rage problems (when I'm not morbidly depressed) but from a lot of these posts it sounds like Lamictal is going to be just as bad as Wellbutrin?
>
> I actually had two relatively stable years on tegratol and wellbutrin, but I went off the tegratol because I was worried about my liver and it was screwing up my skin--but I'm afraid everything does that.....oh yeah, and coffee....BAD NEWS!!! As if I'm not already clenching my teeth without any caffiene in my system.
>
> I don't know. I never want to take my meds--until I'm so effing miserable that I go crying to my pdoc willing to take anything he says, for a little while.......
Posted by alathea on February 5, 2004, at 0:25:15
In reply to Re: My pdoc is Crazy????? (and coffee too), posted by Dalilah on February 4, 2004, at 11:53:07
Dalilah--I am so glad to know that somebody else has that reaction to Wellbutrin, and hopefully Lamictal will be the answer for me too. I just wish there was something a little bit sedating that I could take to deal with the irritability at least during during the transition, but I can't take anything like that because I've been clean and sober for three years and, well....I'd like to keep it that way.
I always take my meds religiously when I take them, but every few years I get some kind of "wild hair" and want to go off them or switch things around. Here's hopin' the Lamictal works. Thanks for your response!
Posted by delna on February 5, 2004, at 1:25:16
In reply to Re: My pdoc is Crazy????? (and coffee too), posted by alathea on February 5, 2004, at 0:25:15
Hi
I too cycle quite rapidly but only in phases. In general my lows mean i have no energy whatsoever and i cannot even get out of bed and am very suicidal. That where the wellbutrin is essential as well as small dose effexor
I also get thoes awful highs, which you describe, then crash to depression.
What I have found is that Lamactil, at even 300mg makes me really aggitated but 200mg is fine. My doc had asked me to up my dose from my usual 200mg -since he wanted NO symptoms of depression at all. At 200mg the anger and aggression is in control and i feel pretty stable.
So for me the dose is really critical. higher than 200mg and I become worse and actually start cycling alot.
At 200mg, wellbutrin 150mg is great as it keeps me awake. I cant tolerate the 300mg wellbutrin I am prescribed as this makes me jittery.so in my experience with both lamactil and wellbutrin , the dosage is so critical. For me lamactil has been amazing as I was so aggresive and impulsive before.
But my doctor and I have to keep playing with doses to find a balance- which is really destabalising. But worth it.
D
Posted by Dalilah on February 5, 2004, at 12:27:12
In reply to Re: My pdoc is Crazy????? (and coffee too), posted by alathea on February 5, 2004, at 0:25:15
Hi Alathea -
I too am clean and sober (6 years.) I take 50mg of seroquel in the evening to sleep. It may help me with daily aggitation as well. It is non narcotic, not a benzodiazapine (sp?) I find it very difficult in the "program" to talk about all of these issues. Most people don't really understand depression or bi-polar and are all to willing to judge the taking of meds/drugs. Here in L.A. there are large factions of AA that believe if you take any meds at all for depression, you are no longer sober. You can imagine how angry this makes me.And Delna,
I agree dosage is important for everyone. For me 300mg Lam is necessary. It's just different for everyone, as are which meds each person can tolerate. I suppose we all have different chemical make-ups, which is why this disease is so hard to treat.-Dalilah
> Dalilah--I am so glad to know that somebody else has that reaction to Wellbutrin, and hopefully Lamictal will be the answer for me too. I just wish there was something a little bit sedating that I could take to deal with the irritability at least during during the transition, but I can't take anything like that because I've been clean and sober for three years and, well....I'd like to keep it that way.
>
> I always take my meds religiously when I take them, but every few years I get some kind of "wild hair" and want to go off them or switch things around. Here's hopin' the Lamictal works. Thanks for your response!
Posted by Jolene Q. Houghton on February 7, 2004, at 4:34:07
In reply to Lamictal side effects, posted by seamus o'noolan on June 30, 2003, at 17:37:40
Has anyone noticed sleeplessness as being a side effect of lamictal? I'm only on 25 miligrams at the moment, but I've noticed it for the past month.
Posted by fluffy on February 7, 2004, at 13:45:26
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects, posted by Jolene Q. Houghton on February 7, 2004, at 4:34:07
Hi Jolene--
I definitely had insomnia on Lamictal. Esp. at the higher doses. It's a pretty common side effect. Then again, sleeplessness goes along with mania and depression!
But I found Lamictal to be activating, and at times it made me feel agitated (esp. when I titrated up on the dose). Run it by your doctor next time you see him/her if it is disrupting your sleep too much.
Best of luck with the Lamictal. It's a good drug.
Posted by ramsea on February 9, 2004, at 4:51:49
In reply to Re: My pdoc is Crazy????? (and coffee too), posted by Dalilah on February 5, 2004, at 12:27:12
I have experienced this from AA in the UK. It ruined my career and reputation---their lack of acceptance of bipolar and its treatment, and my wellnesss as a result. I am now quite anti-AA. Their attitude hurt me badly, nealy killed me and now has cost me a lot in terms of counseling jobs in my small region. Over some 20 years my social suport was mostly 12-step, so having lost that center of my life I have no friends, zero. It's been hell. I am recovering from a very destructive breakdown, but matters would have gone more smoothly had the AA members who called me their good friend actually stood by me during hospitalization and convalescence. I have to reinvent myself.
Remake a life. At 47, no easy task. I also have to keep looking the other way as most of the former friends don't want to say hello--which is fine. But it is all so awkward. I do hope to move away from here someday. There are a few rehab centers around here, so in a small town that makes the whole situation a little, excuse the word, tight.
Posted by Dalilah on February 9, 2004, at 12:48:58
In reply to Re: My pdoc is Crazy????? (and coffee too) » Dalilah, posted by ramsea on February 9, 2004, at 4:51:49
I am sad and angry to hear your story. I too am pretty anti AA after receiving much support for 5 years in. I've heard numerous stories of people directed NOT to take their meds, that the 12 steps would relieve there depression, and then these people ended up committing suicide, something that may very well have been avoided with meds.
They have a few (very few) dual-diagnosis meeting here in La La Land, but probably not in remote areas of the globe. I am very leary of these meetings and have only attended one I liked. A friend is dragging me to a new one on Wed night. Wish me luck. The other problem is it's an hour drive from here (more in traffic.) OUCH. This kind of thing only leads to more depression for me.
There are also those who take meds but won't tell anyone cause of the shame etc, which I fear only perpetuates the stigma of the mentally ill. But that's another situation entirely.
-Dalilah
> I have experienced this from AA in the UK. It ruined my career and reputation---their lack of acceptance of bipolar and its treatment, and my wellnesss as a result. I am now quite anti-AA. Their attitude hurt me badly, nealy killed me and now has cost me a lot in terms of counseling jobs in my small region. Over some 20 years my social suport was mostly 12-step, so having lost that center of my life I have no friends, zero. It's been hell. I am recovering from a very destructive breakdown, but matters would have gone more smoothly had the AA members who called me their good friend actually stood by me during hospitalization and convalescence. I have to reinvent myself.
>
> Remake a life. At 47, no easy task. I also have to keep looking the other way as most of the former friends don't want to say hello--which is fine. But it is all so awkward. I do hope to move away from here someday. There are a few rehab centers around here, so in a small town that makes the whole situation a little, excuse the word, tight.
Posted by Parisss on February 10, 2004, at 14:12:48
In reply to AA and meds, posted by Dalilah on February 9, 2004, at 12:48:58
So how did your Wed meeting go?
Posted by zero on February 10, 2004, at 17:55:36
In reply to Re: My pdoc is Crazy????? (and coffee too) » Dalilah, posted by ramsea on February 9, 2004, at 4:51:49
Posted by silmarilone on February 11, 2004, at 2:05:21
In reply to AA and meds, posted by Dalilah on February 9, 2004, at 12:48:58
You're going to a dual dx meeting in los angeles? where? i'm in the pasadena area, and would like to find one
death_in_venice_mann@yahoo.com
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 11, 2004, at 8:05:09
In reply to AA and meds, posted by Dalilah on February 9, 2004, at 12:48:58
> I am sad and angry to hear your story. I too am pretty anti AA after receiving much support for 5 years in...
I'd like follow-ups regarding AA to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Substance Use. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20040130/msgs/311972.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by alathea on February 16, 2004, at 19:13:32
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT, posted by Houston on September 24, 2003, at 16:50:58
I would be curious about this too. But, did you stop just recently on the wellbutrin? Cause coming off that can cause weight gain I think. i'm on so much crap now I really have no interest in eating. But that never lasts.
I couldn't tell if it was going on Lamictal or comoing off the Wellbutrin that was making me hungry--but now I started back on tegratol and am taking Lamazapam (sp?) and I really have no desire whatsoever to eat.Good luck!
Posted by sczacovi on February 20, 2004, at 8:56:53
In reply to Re: Barb, Re: Lamictal side effects » Dalilah, posted by Barbara Cat on August 3, 2003, at 13:52:10
I have a 12 year old son who was diagnosed with epilepsy when he was 8 years old. He was put on depakote and his seizures stopped, but he started getting very aggressive and mean. He would hurt his 3 year old brother on purpose, didn't seem to know the consequence of his actions and got hyper. The doctor then diagnosed him with adhd and put him on all different types of meds with the depakote. He was on concerta (made him more hyper), paxil (made him sleepy and more depressed) and risperdal (which totally put him in a severe depression) and straterra (which did nothing). I had enough. I told the doctor that I thought that the depakote was the whole problem and the other meds where just making it worse. I said we should clean out his system and get him off all meds to see if his behavior changes. He was clean and did o.k. but now he was not on any seizure medication and he was having a lot more seizure activity. I finally went to a new doctor at Children's Memorial and she put him on lamictal. Over time he got better, but he still had that anger thing and he would easily be brought to tears. Before he was diagnosed with seizures, it seemed he didn't know how to act socially. He was very immature for his age and he would breakdown and cry if things didn't go his way. For instance, if we were playing a board game and he lost, he would cry horribly. He doesn't know how to make friends and he's never been asked over to anyone's house. So, before all the meds he cried a lot, didn't like attention, lacked self-esteem and self confidence and was very disorganized. He was never aggressive. He started talking about suicide so we went to a neuropsychologist that said he was bipolar. He is now on lamictal, zyprexia and adderall. We had to decrease his adderall to 10mg because 20mg made him worse. The doctor said that's probably because he is not adhd. When you give someone meds for something that he doesn't have, it tends to make them worse. So now he are going to individual therapy, family therapy and seeing a psychiatrist. My husband and I are so frustrated. I'm doing all kinds of research and there are probably about 1,000 mood disorders he could fit. Now I'm thinking that before he went on any meds for anything, he was never aggressive, just wishy-washy crying, that maybe the meds are making him seem bipolar? It's like now he is aggressive/depressed where before meds he wasn't. Can these meds give you symptoms of other disorders? We put him through a lot of psychological testing and we will get the results next month. Hopefully they can pinpoint what the ++++ is wrong and we can get him healty again.
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