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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by camel on December 2, 2003, at 14:28:12
In reply to Re: starting effexor... keep posting.. success/dosage?, posted by sasha71 on December 2, 2003, at 14:24:46
Sasha......glad you discussed it with your Doc. My husband is retired military and I raised my three kids "basically" by myself.....the last thing either of you need is to become "disconnected". Hang in there......
Posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 14:47:18
In reply to Re: starting effexor... keep posting.. success/dosage?, posted by sasha71 on December 2, 2003, at 14:24:46
well done, wise dr. 'talk-therapy' sounds good for your child. another wise dr. decision. looks like you're in good hands. best wishes
Posted by sasha71 on December 2, 2003, at 17:09:09
In reply to Re: starting effexor... keep posting.. success/dosage?, posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 14:17:00
He's not really sure what to think about it but is interested and so recommended I keep a journal and figure out a way to rate episodes that I feel I'm not responding properly to. Then we'll talk about it and see what he thinks next month.
Posted by Clayton on December 2, 2003, at 17:14:39
In reply to Re: starting effexor... keep posting.. success/dosage?, posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 14:02:02
Would you please let me know which ADs you are referring to (that do not cause emotional blunting and require a miniaml withdrawal regimine)?
I'd appreciate it a lot!
Thanks,
Mark
Posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 17:36:10
In reply to Re: starting effexor... keep posting.. success/dosage? » maxx44, posted by KimberlyDi on December 2, 2003, at 13:28:15
ms. kimberly ok? i've family in san antonio, lived in its medical center area for a year, not a hospital, nice loft. didn't mean to 'mess with texas'. as you note from your effexor 'events', and from existing literature, it's one unpredictable AD. i feel most are. life is. my concern on 'blunting' is supported---that's probably one reason her dr. wants to see her in 30 days, vs. her usual 90.--- not to be alarmist, but you may wish to do a search on the 'colombine' victim sueing a drug co., as the shooter was on a newer AD. effexor also seems to be being banned in some countries--i could be wrong--hard to keep current. seems the lady is in good hands. btw, i miss the hill country. best wishes----
Posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 18:20:38
In reply to Re: starting effexor... keep posting.. success/dosage? » maxx44, posted by sasha71 on December 2, 2003, at 17:09:09
good dr.---a journal is great. hard to remember all those things going on. when, what, etc. your journal pins 'em down. also good therapy. the reason 'blunting' rang my bells? it's often the brain's natural response to stress. but it is fact that some drugs in some people, harm the deep brain's dopamine production hardware and its receptors. a bigger problem than mother nature. ADs usually don't do such. but effexor IMHO is too new for long-term effects to be known---a wise dr. would want to see you sooner than usual, and i'm sure he will be researching effexor as you journal. best wishes
Posted by KimberlyDi on December 2, 2003, at 18:52:22
In reply to Re: starting effexor... keep posting.. success/dosage?, posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 17:36:10
A woman felt guilt over her lack of emotional response to her child. I tried to reassure her that being stable and calm can be a good thing in the midst of turmoil. Mother to mother.
You came in from left field, but that's ok. I'm sure you are trying to make a point that is very important to you.
KDi in TX
> ms. kimberly ok? i've family in san antonio, lived in its medical center area for a year, not a hospital, nice loft. didn't mean to 'mess with texas'. as you note from your effexor 'events', and from existing literature, it's one unpredictable AD. i feel most are. life is. my concern on 'blunting' is supported---that's probably one reason her dr. wants to see her in 30 days, vs. her usual 90.--- not to be alarmist, but you may wish to do a search on the 'colombine' victim sueing a drug co., as the shooter was on a newer AD. effexor also seems to be being banned in some countries--i could be wrong--hard to keep current. seems the lady is in good hands. btw, i miss the hill country. best wishes----
Posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 19:08:42
In reply to Just which ADs are you referring to? » maxx44, posted by Clayton on December 2, 2003, at 17:14:39
hi mark---tricky question as we all have unique neuro-systems. the old 'classic-car' ADs, the tricyclics and maois have been around so long, most problems are known. also age is a factor. 3 times i've had depression stopped by imipramine hcl and once by the maoi nardil. stopping, even suddenly, caused a few night's of nightmares, but little else. if i had tapered down, as now generally advised, it would have been smoother. these older drugs have drawbacks that you should know of, but the net's a good source of that data. i'll get back you w/more. best
Posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 19:47:40
In reply to Re: starting effexor... keep posting.. success/dosage? » maxx44, posted by KimberlyDi on December 2, 2003, at 18:52:22
what's important to me is the woman suffers no harm. you seemed to take this personally, from your 1st post to me. as it continues, i consider it 'flameing' and think dr. bob should determine the outcome on that. regards
Posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 21:07:08
In reply to Just which ADs are you referring to? » maxx44, posted by Clayton on December 2, 2003, at 17:14:39
hi mark---the negatives of tcas (tricyclics)---they decrase sleeping salivation which protects teeth, tremor, possible palpitations, dry mouth, sweating---if you read the full disclosure page on any med, or search the net, you will see a lot of scary stuff on just about anything. the maois require a modified diet---that's covered on 'psycho-babble', modern guidelines are more liberal, but still, unless it's the newer maoi-b, deprenyl, you can't gobble aged foods, cheese and other foods---stroke could result. yeah, sounds bad---but they all do if you start reading precautions. contraindications. like many old and new drugs, overdose may be lethal---but please, never consider that for 'self-destructive' use. i met a 25-tear-old that tried that with the old tca elavil. a week before, he was making whoopie with girl-friend. no more whoopie---just heart-damage big time. i would exhaust 'talk-therapy', actually, before any drug. it works. regards
Posted by lacey2001 on December 2, 2003, at 22:07:21
In reply to Re: Just which ADs are you referring to?, posted by maxx44 on December 2, 2003, at 21:07:08
Hi, It has been three weeks yesterday (Monday) that I started taking E-XR and I still do not see a difference in me feeling groggy during the day. I posted my story before but I will briefly say it.....I was first on 37.5 mg for a week...was groggy, the whole bit but I noticed those symptoms didn't go away but were improving. Then I had to go 75 mg the next week and I couldn't sleep. I am happy to say that I do sleep better (too bad my 2 year old is climbing out of her crib or it would be even better).I take the pill in the morning with breakfast and the only major complaint now is groggy. I feel like a zombie.
It has been actually two weeks at 75 mg. The question I have for everyone is how many weeks was it for each of you before the grogginess went away??Tanya
Posted by maxx44 on December 3, 2003, at 1:01:06
In reply to Been Three weeks, posted by lacey2001 on December 2, 2003, at 22:07:21
if it's getting in the way, i would ask my dr. about reducing dose. your dr. may have 'hunched'--(what else may they do?) and moved you up too quick. most of these things do make most people groggy for a few weeks or less. it goes away, or you holler. right? the best drs., i feel, tend to start at lowest dose and carefully titrate you up, and watch you weekly. good luck on this. and ps---it may take weeks for a med to really start rolling. but you don't want a run-away train---for me, too rapid titration easily costs at least 2 mil. not the drs. fault, except for not refusing my request for more. too soon.
Posted by MBL on December 3, 2003, at 8:02:12
In reply to Been Three weeks, posted by lacey2001 on December 2, 2003, at 22:07:21
my doc has always had me take it @ night because of that, and I have not had a problem w/ grogginess. Have you tried that?
> Hi, It has been three weeks yesterday (Monday) that I started taking E-XR and I still do not see a difference in me feeling groggy during the day. I posted my story before but I will briefly say it.....I was first on 37.5 mg for a week...was groggy, the whole bit but I noticed those symptoms didn't go away but were improving. Then I had to go 75 mg the next week and I couldn't sleep. I am happy to say that I do sleep better (too bad my 2 year old is climbing out of her crib or it would be even better).I take the pill in the morning with breakfast and the only major complaint now is groggy. I feel like a zombie.
> It has been actually two weeks at 75 mg. The question I have for everyone is how many weeks was it for each of you before the grogginess went away??
>
> Tanya
Posted by lovemybabies on December 3, 2003, at 8:26:34
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hi, everyone. I don't know if I'm doing this right--I was on 150mg and have decided to stop. Not cold turkey--I'm taking 75mg now every other day. The only side effects so far are a little grogginess and the involuntary muscle twitching/jerks right before falling asleep. Oh, and clammy sweating at night. No 'brain zaps' as so many people have described. Yet. It's kind of like I'm rapid-cycling through all the start-up symptoms.
Why am I quitting? Well, after nine months with GREAT success at reducing my depression/anxiety, I couldn't put up with the side effects. Most recently, my hair began dramatically thinning. Sure enough, there are tons of sites/postings relating to this. The constipation, vivid dreams, night-sweats I could take--but mess with my hair? See-ya....
My main concern now is a return of the anxiety that severely debilitated me last January. We'll see...I'll go back on if I need to. Wish me luck and I'll keep you posted on the withdrawal!
Jen
Posted by MBL on December 3, 2003, at 8:30:53
In reply to tapering off, posted by lovemybabies on December 3, 2003, at 8:26:34
To me it sounds like you may be tapering off a little fast...why not 75 mg ea. day...then every other...etc.?
But everyone is different so listen to your body!> Hi, everyone. I don't know if I'm doing this right--I was on 150mg and have decided to stop. Not cold turkey--I'm taking 75mg now every other day. The only side effects so far are a little grogginess and the involuntary muscle twitching/jerks right before falling asleep. Oh, and clammy sweating at night. No 'brain zaps' as so many people have described. Yet. It's kind of like I'm rapid-cycling through all the start-up symptoms.
>
> Why am I quitting? Well, after nine months with GREAT success at reducing my depression/anxiety, I couldn't put up with the side effects. Most recently, my hair began dramatically thinning. Sure enough, there are tons of sites/postings relating to this. The constipation, vivid dreams, night-sweats I could take--but mess with my hair? See-ya....
>
> My main concern now is a return of the anxiety that severely debilitated me last January. We'll see...I'll go back on if I need to. Wish me luck and I'll keep you posted on the withdrawal!
>
> Jen
>
>
Posted by loni on December 3, 2003, at 14:16:47
In reply to Re: tapering off, posted by MBL on December 3, 2003, at 8:30:53
Jen--
Trust your instincts. Do you have a new plan of action for after Effexor? I have read that, during tapering, if you take Prozac too it tends to dampen the withdrawal effects.
I wish I had known that before because w/d was hellish for me. I had all of the symptoms of MS and we went through a lot of anguish before it was traced back to the Effexor w/d.
The good news is...if you continue the taper and don't ramp back up (your body may crave that during the taper...don't give in! It doesn't last...), the whole withdrawl thing is over within 4-5 weeks or so depending on the intensity of your symptoms and the dosage you started on.
But, do have a game plan for after w/d...that is important.
Posted by maxx44 on December 3, 2003, at 14:55:30
In reply to Re: tapering off, posted by MBL on December 3, 2003, at 8:30:53
you may have no panic/anxiety---years ago i was on xanax a year---went off CT (cold-turkey), don't advise that---always taper down---after 5 days of horror and no sleep, sleep was restored and i awoke panic-free, for the next 6 years. ask your dr. about how to taper-down safely. best
Posted by maxx44 on December 3, 2003, at 15:10:25
In reply to Re: tapering off, posted by loni on December 3, 2003, at 14:17:18
re. loni---i absolutely agree. taper, and please try and avoid any benzo for withdrawal. effexor seems to be a rough ride, but tapering works. i know zip about prozac as a temp help. but, boy, do i know benzos---very short-term use, maybe ok, but many get addicted to them pretty fast. and that's a ticket to hell compared to any AD. good luck---funny old world, isn't it? some love effexor, some get trouble---the lit on effexor seems getting scarier every month---wise choice IMHO.
Posted by lovemybabies on December 3, 2003, at 18:32:48
In reply to Re: tapering off, posted by maxx44 on December 3, 2003, at 15:10:25
Thanks for the input. I agree with you on the benzos. My doc. prescribed Effexor along with Xanax(temporarily) when I first went to her w/anxiety. Boy, did I love it. I was craving more but she wisely suggested I up the Effexor instead.
This is proving to be more difficult that I thought. Today I took 150mg again. I was SOOOO light-headed and 'ditzy'...I even had trouble finding the right words to express my thoughts today at my daughter's ballet class. Good grief. Those other Moms probably thought I was drunk. Tomorrow I'll try 75mg again. Maybe it'll help to look at the next couple of weeks as a funny, crazy ride.
Jen
Posted by loni on December 3, 2003, at 19:02:33
In reply to Re: tapering off, posted by lovemybabies on December 3, 2003, at 18:32:48
LMB--
The "trouble finding right words" is defintely part of withdrawal. I also suffered from a form of transient aphasia where I had trouble comprehending words and speech. It was very frustrating and scary.
Now that I've been through it and know there is another side...I would recommend just "going with it" when you can. Kind of like the longest hangover you'll ever have...alternatively silly in its strangeness and painful in a "man, close those curtains and why is it so bright in here?!" kind of way.
:) Goofy. I know. But there is a light. It does end.
Posted by countess on December 3, 2003, at 19:39:49
In reply to Re: tapering off, posted by loni on December 3, 2003, at 19:02:33
I am going through the strange process too. I was on 75mg. felt like it stopped working for a month and then had horrible hangover like headaches on the next refill of the same amt. The medicine helped my anxiety once I got used to it but it just feels like side effect after side effect and no more good effects. I didn't want to increase my dose to feel better. I remember getting off the med. before. I know that it will be over and I look forward to it. I certainly feel more clear as I have decreased to half dose for one week and this week every other day a half dose. I feel extra energy as I get off the med. but I feel tightness in my chest...anxious...I'm just trying to breathe and ride it out. I'm hoping that once off the rollercoaster of on and off days I will feel better. I feel that xanax helped me better. Just taking as necessary. Good luck everyone! It is nice to know that others feel the same can't find words symptoms. I also feel very dizzy and at work feel so out of it I wonder if anyone notices. I wish I could just go home and close the curtains...my eyes are sensitive to light. and sleep it all off. Good luck. I was on this before and got off and remember feeling better. Eventually my anxiety came back. I will try nutrition and exercise and perhaps a diff. med. Take care :)
Posted by maxx44 on December 3, 2003, at 19:47:16
In reply to Re: tapering off, posted by lovemybabies on December 3, 2003, at 18:32:48
if you 'got high' from xanax, you understand why it's a popular street drug. i'm lucky, didn't do that to me, but daily-as-prescribed use hooked me. i'd like to laugh about getting addicted and no 'high'---but there is nothing funny about benzos. check out dr. heather ashton and benzos.org.uk---your hair will not be thinning, it will turn grey and fall out. the 'high' is a clear sign Your brain, etc. is prone to possible rapid addiction. it's like cocaine---in the 70's drs. still said it was like pot, pretty safe recreational drug. i tried it, flushed it--no problem---but i also saw people, women more than men, addicted overnight--i mean they tried it once and woke-up 'sick', took one sniff--not sick. that's why pimps love it, call it 'the white lady'---IMHO benzoz are worse. a year's taper, after long-term use, such as i---usually followed by a year+ of 'protracted withdrawal syndrome'---which for middle-age addicts often persists unto death. some have it easier, but not many. that's why your dr. kept it short. i don't think any AD will do that, but effexor is getting to be a known problem for the wrong people. i'm not a dr., but i would ask yours about trying something else. the old tcas and maois work, but i wouldn't have them around children--overdose may be lethal. the ssris seem safer. there is a new AD, deprenyl--very $$$ here. also a newer, safer form of celexa---many choices--you seem to have a good dr. you'll work it out. but i'd stay away from benzos or any 'super-benzo' as risperdal or zyprexa, risperdal has been FDA approved for treatment-resistent depression/aniety---a 'neuroleptic' for depression? outrageous---please be careful.
Posted by maxx44 on December 3, 2003, at 20:33:45
In reply to Re: tapering off, posted by countess on December 3, 2003, at 19:39:49
an alterate to xanax or benzos is 'low-dose'tofranil, imipramine hcl. many drs. treat axiety with it. not addictive--dry mouth, sweat, not 'cardiac-friendly', but safe if no kids can get at it. and you're not 'self-destructive'. it can make you manic--all ADs may--it takes like 30 minutes to notice, that's a problem for severe panic attack---they don't give you 30 minute's notice. exercise is really neat---your body produces probably hundreds of of 'feel-good' chemicals. for free. my second daughter became a marathon runner when she started feeling 'blue'. stopped it cold. btw--standing up and getting dizzy is very often from dehydration. to the body, nothing, even 'gatorade' is water, but milk, soda, beer, fruit-juice? sure, mostly water, but not to your body. best wishes
Posted by Clayton on December 3, 2003, at 21:58:13
In reply to Re: tapering off, posted by maxx44 on December 3, 2003, at 19:47:16
Xaxax can be VERY addictive. Doctors DO have trouble weaning their patients off it. It is a street drug because it can, depending upon the person and the specific circumstance, produce a brief "high". Some doctors call this "euphoria". Other doctors (and I) call it an "antidepressant effect" - it's simply a choice of words. (It is a great motivator to lift your spirits just enough to get started on those dread projects you have been procrastinating about for so long. It is DANGEROUS to anyone with a predisposition toward addiction. On all this we agree 100%.
OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN: in my opinion, Xanax is the most efficacious drug ever invented to control panic attacks. It is a surperb medicine for anxiety and all types of anxiety attacks A small dose literally killed off my SEVERE Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD). It has a very short half-life. The subjective effects last no more than 90 minutes. Check the pharmacology. Thus, the duration of the benzodiazapine-inflicted memory and cognitive loss are of minimal duration.
Doctors like to prescribe Klonapin (Clonazapam, Rivital) instead of Xanax. It IS LESS ADDICTIVE. There is no "high" or "motivational effect". It also has subjective effects that last SIX HOURS. My experience is that I have TOTAL AMNESIA for those six hours. I can't tell my boss what I've been doing all day at work because I CAN'T REMEMBER. And all that assummes I've managed to stay awake. I find Klonapin to be VERY SEDATING and that it TOTALLY IMPAIRS my COGNITIVE FUNCTIONING. I am a software engineer. It almost got me fired. I literally can't sustain a train of thought or reason on Klonapin. Others have had better experiencies.
Xanax, on the other hand, "wakes me up" (I KNOW that that it impairs memory and thinking like all benzos, so this is partly an illusion - I also know that this "wake up" can be called "euphoria" or "antidepressant"...that's a semantic distiction). But it gets me going, calms me down, protects me from SAD and anxiety most of the day (even though it's subjective effects last only 90 minutes, it breaks the vicious cycle of anxiety and protects me long after it's direct action has ceased.) I can remember what I did at the end of the day. I can focus and reason, and remember what happened, even during the drugs "active" period. (I know there must be SOME impairment, but it is NOTHING comared with other benzos - I can suceed at my job). It is truly a MIRACULOUS MEDICINE and, for those who can take it WITHOUT ABUSING IT, it can be a Blessing...a Gift from God!
Who can take it without abusing it? Do you have an "addictive personality"? (You KNOW if you do!)
Do you have a history of alchohol and/or drug abuse, even a long time ago? If so, DO NOT ATTEMPT XANAX!If you do NOT have an addictive personality and no history of substance abuse, feel free to CAUTIOUSLY try Xanax if your symptoms call for it. It can ease needless psychological agony. It can assist you through periods where your pain is beyond endurance. It can control anxiety attacks of all kinds. You may need a full 1 mg dose (some people even need 2 or 3 mgs - 0.5mg does it for most people). If your doctor prescribes a certain dose and it does not address your symptoms, call you doctor and tell him/her. Have the dose changed through your dctor and pharmacy. But do not EVER take more than prescribed!
If you take Xanax for GOOD CAUSE (normal anxiety that we all feel is part of life and NOT "good cause"), and it helps, that is GOOD! If it MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD, there is nothing wrong with that!
If you feel the urge to take MORE than prescribed, especially during the subjectively active period of the drugs action, place yourself on ALERT! Resist! Do not take more than prescribed. It's OKAY to WANT more. But you may NOT take more.
If you DO take more than prescribed (more than one time, anyway), then XANAX is NOT FOR YOU! CALL your doctor IMMEDIATELY and tell him or her that you are taking more than prescribed. You MUST get off from it with your doctor's help and find an alternative. If you act quickly, there should be very minimal, if any, withdrawl consequences. This is one blessing you may not have because the risks outweigh the benefits. Resign yourself to that.
Dogmatic Docs: If you honestly feel Xanax is what you need, explain why to your doctor. Your doc should ask questios about past substance abuse and addictions, etc. If you admit to these, and the doctor refuses to give you Xanax, the doctor is probably making the best decision for you.
However, if you PASS this "screening", or worse, the doctor refuses to "screan" at all, and simply rejects the idea of Xanax out of hand, you may have a "dogmatic doc". This medicine CAN control terrible suffering and save lives. It IS worth consideration. Some doctors mistake, "First of all, do no harm" for "Never take any chances". They may not conciously realize that nearly every medical treatment they sanction carries RISK. This risk is no different. But cut the doc some slack. They may have been over-indoctrinated about the risks of Xanax. They may have had bad experiences with patients who DID become severely and dysfunctionally addicted.
BY ALL MEANS, DO FEEL FREE TO CHECK WITH ANOTHER DOC WITH A MORE OPEN MIND!
The prescribing of any medicine, even a non-addictive antdepressant like Prozac or Zoloft, entails significant risks. A high per centage of the population are taking these modern (but soon to be obsolete) antidepressants. Their negative side-effects are just now being discovered and openly acknowledged. The risks and side-effects are extraordinarily signigicant. Like Xanax, the benefits can control suffering and free people to lead ordinary lives.
The prescription of any medicine is a JUDGEMENT CALL. This is ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR PSYCHOTROPICS. Sorry, medical science will not be able to "CALCULATE" the correct medicine for you in our life time. (Still, there has, and continues to be, extraordinary, rapid progress. There is just SO FAR to go prior to a final understanding.)
Best of luck and blessings...
Posted by loni on December 3, 2003, at 22:00:30
In reply to A Balanced Alternative View of Xanax » maxx44, posted by Clayton on December 3, 2003, at 21:58:13
Xanax is the reason that I LOVE Ativan. Love it. Love it. None of the Xanax strangeness. All of the calm on a VERY low dose.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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