![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 265 to 289 of 458. Go back in thread:
Posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 11:33:37
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » katia, posted by nmk on November 19, 2003, at 10:59:59
Hi all--I hope you ALL are well.
It's interesting to hear all of your stories. I haven't been keeping up like I used to.
Katia--some things re: med changes, additions struck me....
I really agree with the advice (i forget who gave it now) to get the Lam at the full (normally therapeutic) dose, which as I understand it for Bipolars is 200mg. If you are not showing signs of rashes, you can go up more quickly past 100mg. I went up every week once i hit 100mg, increasing 50mg until I hit 200mg, as part of the clinical trial I participated in. My doctor, who is a researcher, claims that during all of the clinical trials for Lamictal in BP depressions, nothing over 200mg seemed to change the results. I'm sure there's some give or take in the dosing (maybe some need 250 or 150mg). But my doc was adimant about it. So I believed him, maybe blindly, who knows...But the trileptal add-on has really smoothed me out for now.
As for the fish oil...that's also tricky. I've kept up with the clinical trials on this, too. I'm not an expert, mind you, so I don't want to seem like miss know-it-all. According to the trials, though, it seemed that over 3g of fish oil sometimes caused a NEGATIVE result! (there's lots of fumbling with control groups and such, so it's hard to tell how much stock to put into research). But it seemed that the groups who took 1-2g of fish oil over a LONG period of time did the best. So it's a long term thing, not an immediate relief type thing. I've even heard that it may take up to a year to see the results. But it's a good idea for your health in general, and it makes your skin and nails nice anyway. Why not try it? It's low risk. But to avoid the fishy burps and smell, you might start with 1-2g (IMHO). I just use the store brand stuff. It's cheap, and i just don't believe the jibber-jabber about toxicity of store brands. I take 2g right now. Apparently, the cod liver oil doesn't contain the Omega 3's in the same amounts as the normal supplements. Go to psycheducation.org for more info. It's interesting. It may even help the PMS irritability.
And you've heard me preach before, and Barb-cat's opinions on the Li Orotate. Frankly, you should really go with the real deal first, as unpalatable as it may seem. It's the tried and true. And I do personally feel that Li Orotate is further out on the decision tree. The gold standards are gold standards for reasons, and they are all worth a try before the alternative, trendy new alternative stuff.
Ok--enough from me. Sorry to seem preachy about meds. Please know that you always have my support...med trials, and trials and tribulations of life.
hugs and support,
Katy
Posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 15:19:24
In reply to Re: Hey Katia, posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 11:33:37
> Hi all--I hope you ALL are well.
**Ditto to all.
I am at 100mg now and on Thursday, Im going up to 125mg for a week, then 150mg and see how I do. This may just be a side effect of lam. but I'm more elevated good (at first) and mixed like/anxious can't sit still, need sleeping pills...maybe, I too, need Li. to smooth it out. As Nicole and you said, I'll get to the therapeutic dose first on Lam. and see what happens.As for the fish oil, I've been taking 1-2g for over a year and just recently (past three months) been taking a good quality molecularly distilled(little or no mercury) fish oil of 3g per day. again, don't know if it's adding any lift at all. Maybe i'll try going higher just to see. As for me, I do believe that getting a good quality fish oil is TRES IMPORTANT! Injesting that much fish oil daily and having it be toxic with mercury? There have been tests regarding this - can't remember where - but it's a real thing this mercury toxicity. Maybe I'll try and find some info.
> And you've heard me preach before, and Barb-cat's opinions on the Li Orotate. Frankly, you should really go with the real deal first, as unpalatable as it may seem. It's the tried and true. And I do personally feel that Li Orotate is further out on the decision tree. The gold standards are gold standards for reasons, and they are all worth a try before the alternative, trendy new alternative stuff.
**Yeah, I'm kinda feeling this way too. My one concern is this: If I develop hypothyroid on Lithium, does it stop after I discontinue Li.? Anyone know this answer?
> Ok--enough from me. Sorry to seem preachy about meds. Please know that you always have my support...med trials, and trials and tribulations of life.
**You're not preachy at all. I appreciate your time and advice and thoughts.
How're you doing?
warmly,
Katia
Posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 15:25:11
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » katia, posted by nmk on November 19, 2003, at 10:59:59
Hi Nicole,
I like the special effects at the end of your name..
I, like you, take the initiative and found out my own info and then take it doc. When I was looking for a doctor, it took me ages to find one that is not fully booked and it took me two months to get into to see this one. I live in the Bay area, so I would've assumed that there are lots of doctors. At this point, continuity is probably more important than trying to find another docotor that I like. It's not that I don't like this one, I just wish he'd think outside the box a little more. Thank god I've got a brain on me though and think about things and inquire.I also do the mood charting - have done for about four months now or more.
Hope things are good for you.
take care,
Katia
Posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 15:36:59
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-(, posted by Dalilah on November 18, 2003, at 23:14:10
Hi Dalilah,
> I hope I didn't sound too judgemental. I know not everyone can do it and not everyone needs to. I did need to.
**NOT AT ALL. As I said in my last post, I appreciate the stories and feedback.
> And to answer your second question, I did not even realize I had depression until I stopped. Just like you said - when I stop I realize how depressed I am. Well I was so depressed I couldn't get out of bed. This wasn't til I had like 3 years sober and my body was coming out of the alcohol induced fog.**I wouldn't call my experiences and the way I've lived in an alcohol induced fog. I don't know what that entailed for you (like how much did you drink?). I've always tried to keep it in check and it's always been a battle between being healthy and falling prey to drinking. And the drinking for me was a last resort. During the past four years, I've also been in therapy and grad school, doing lots of yoga/meditating - developing a strong spiritual awareness. So through this, it lessened - my abuse. But still I remained depressed and kept thinking it was "dark" stuff i needed to process - things were stirring up in me i thought. But that's bollocks b/c it went on for years and it took a major major crisis last summer for me to wake up to it all. That's when I began my journey w/ antidepressants for a year and not working for me, I got a bipolar dx in June. Throughout the years (esp. this year), I go weeks without drinking, (like now), but then can't hang on anymore and slip up. For me, it's not all or nothing in regards to me not being able to find the right med combo because I'm so abstinent or moderate now. I've got so much awareness around it, it's hard to hide behind it anymore. I know it'd be best to stop altogether and all I can say is today I'm sober. one day at a time with a goal as not to drink ever.
I've got a delicate and sensitive constitution too - (no wonder - everything else is sensitive!). I'm similar to you in that regard.
How old are you?
warm regards,
Katia
Posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 15:45:44
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » nmk, posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 15:25:11
Hey Katia--
I'm doing ok--some days blah and bored, others doing well. I'm working on my artwork again. Still on the same meds. I've managed to keep my appetite for the past few weeks, and sleep pretty well (Yay-hoooo!!).
I've started an exercise routine of walking 40 minutes in the morning right after I wake. (Then I sit down and have a cappucino and 2 cigarettes--ha-ha!!). It seems to help my mood for sure.
Hmmm. Maybe I should be more cautious about the fish oil business. I'll have to ask my pdoc if he knows about a better brand. In general, though, I'm just not that bothered by stuff like chemicals in my foods....sheesh! I'm a smoker, and I love hot dogs. But I suppose every little bit of health counts, too.
your babble pal,
Katy
Posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 17:54:18
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb?, posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 15:45:44
Hi Katy,
Nordic Naturals is what I use. Barbara uses a certain type of brand. I know she's sick to death of repeating herself, but I can't remember which one that is. It's impossible to retrieve recently passed posts - only ones that are like 18 months old. Don't really know why. so I would do a search for you (and me), but can't.Didn't know you smoked? I only do when I drink (and only sometimes then). How much a day?
Hot dogs eh? I love sausages. Everyone's got their vice and no one can be perfect!
Sounds like the Trileptal and lam. are doing it for you! Once when I wrote "bored" on my mood chart, my doctor said "yes, that's what I want to see - that means things are improving. That's what most people experience in their lives occasionally".
ta-
Katia
Posted by poop'd-out on November 20, 2003, at 3:05:57
In reply to Re: Not doing too well :-( Longer than I meant! » poop'd-out, posted by katia on November 18, 2003, at 17:36:20
OH my God!! I just wrote you a long response and then my computer decided it had performed an illegal operation, and lost it all!! I will try again.
> Hi Beth!
> ** how long did it take you to get there? I had glimpses of that in my five weeks of sobriety (like I knew that I didn't have the option of "using"), but something just clicked and my mind opened again to the fact that I COULD DRINK and ease this pain.
>
I would say about 2-3 years, but it took about 9 months for the compulsion to leave me entirely. It was awful. Like you said, it just wasn't an option anymore. Using was just as bad so this way I had a slight chance that things might get better, and eventually they did!!
> **Boy, how familiar is that one? The sad thing is for me, I drank and hid away and didn't even realize that I was hiding from life. The excuse, in retrospect, was, "I just need some down time, I"m going thru' something, a lot of dark stuff is coming up in me (as tho'I was "healing and processing" something) when in reality, it was DEPRESSION!!! Duh! It didn't occur to me to get help or acknowledge, or rather didn't dawn on me that i was suffering from depression/bipolar. I just thought it was circumstantial and I"ll be better soon or that this was just the way life was. It's so good to be aware of that masking and hiding away. it shifts everything. I just wish my brother would wake up to it. At least someone in my family (me) has woken up.
I always knew that I had depression, I have had it since childhood. I actually was self-medicating to control my depression, and for a while it worked. I finally felt like a normal functioning human being, probably for the first time in my life. This was more the pain-killers than the alcohol, although there was plenty of that too. The sad thing is I wasn't using to get high, just to feel normal, it was my little secret, I told no one about the pills. The alcohol they saw!!Then the very thing that I thought had saved my life was slowly killing me. I knew it too. I just thought that if I kept trying and trying that eventually I would recover that feeling that had saved me initially. I am very stubborn, and kept trying to get it back for at least ten years. During this time I suffered from extreme rage, anxiety, paranoia, withdrawals every time I couldn't find more pills. Not fun.
>
> > I did try one briefly, they had a patch out, I think it was desyrel?
>
It is not desyrel, can't remember what that is. The drug is called deprenyl(selegiline) it is used to treat alzheimers patients. There is alot of information on PB if you type in a search.
> **Did it work?I took it quite some time ago. I guess not since I no longer take it. I would definitely do a search and see how others have done on it, we all have very different chemistries.
>What meds are you on now?
Tegretol, Neurontin, Zoloft has been my mainstay cocktail for a few years now. I guess that I have been fearful to change it. It keeps me from completely losing it but am still down quite a bit.
Have just started Lamictal 75mg for about a month now, I am still waiting for the miracle...?>How old are you?
36, but still very much a child.
>What is your dx?
My doc and I have landed on BPII for the time being with my ups more the irritability, rage thing, and mostly depressed. Bummer I want the good mania =)
Mostly because I react so horribly to AD's when taken alone.>How did you stop using substances????
Short answer: I had to.
I wasn't living anymore, all I thought about was where my next pill was coming from, and that was my life. That is what I lived for, if you can call that living.
I think it is good that you are aware of what you are doing, that is a step in the right direction.
But, in the end, only you can decide what's right for you.I have shared some of my experiences, and like they say, take what you need and leave the rest.
You take care Sweetie!
Beth
P.S. I will be happy to discuss this topic any time with you, any questions you have and will look for you on the other board so we don't get in trouble, Kay?
Posted by fluffy on November 20, 2003, at 13:26:02
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb? » fluffy, posted by katia on November 19, 2003, at 17:54:18
Hi Katia--
Nordic Naturals...I'll have to write that down. I think I remember Barb-cat taking the cod liver oil stuff, and I read that it doesn't really have the punch of Omega threes that other supplements have. I'd rather not take something that says "cod liver oil" anyway...blechh!!
I smoke about half a pack a day...two morning cigs, two afternoon ones, and probably 4 evening ones. I have a love-hate relationship with them. Mostly I hate when I have to go to the store to buy them. What a waste. I successfully quit for 6 months recently..not ONE cigarette for 6 months. I was so good, but when the shit hit the fan, I reached for my old pal.
I guess the trileptal and Lamictal are working. I've only had some temporary swings into mild depression since I've been on it. But even the mild bits really suck. Like today, I've been fighting off crying, and last night I cried myself to sleep. You know--feeling lonely, like no one will care about me, or does care about me. I guess I should watch it, b/c this is how the severe depressions set in on me. Subtle, creeping in with crying spells and little appetite. (last night, I could barely fix dinner.) I just wanted to lay around and listen to Joy Division and feel sorry for myself.
I have a hard time understanding when to introduce a new drug, or just tough out a couple of bad days/weeks. Which is more uncomfortable?
Anyway--I hope you are hanging in there. Good to hear from you. Rock on processed meat eaters!
Katy
Posted by katia on November 20, 2003, at 19:20:42
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb?, posted by fluffy on November 20, 2003, at 13:26:02
Hi Katy,
I did my share of smoking and drinking last night...it's this pms in combo with still feeling depressed. I hate it and am sick of it. No inspiration at all - it sucks. And I should be writing now.> I have a hard time understanding when to introduce a new drug, or just tough out a couple of bad days/weeks. Which is more uncomfortable?
*I'd have to say, stick with awhile longer. Sometimes it takes time to set in.
Hope things look better for you.
-katia
Posted by katia on November 23, 2003, at 16:30:19
In reply to Re: The steady pillar of Barb?, posted by fluffy on November 19, 2003, at 15:45:44
Hi Katy,
I was "perusing" the letters over at bipolar world and think I came across one of yours. I didn't realize it until after I'd thought about copying that letter and giving you the link in regards to fish oil.
http://www.mddaboston.org/lect060999.html
BUT, then I realized it was your letter over there!
how funny.
I'm going to give fish oil a try. Come to think of it, when I first started on that diet from the metabolic nutritionist, i read the quantity of fish oil I have to take wrong and was taking 9gs. a day instead of 3. I remember (now in enlightening retrospect) that I felt so much better during that brief time.
I'm going to try and find Barb's recommendation post of fish oil and buy some.
take care,
katia
Posted by fluffy on November 24, 2003, at 8:19:20
In reply to bipolar world » fluffy, posted by katia on November 23, 2003, at 16:30:19
Hi Katia--
Indeed, I did write a letter to Dr. Phelps. I was so glad he replied. Sometimes I wish he was MY doctor. I guess his information seems so practical and he doesn't seem too arrogant to entertain that other un-tested methods can work on BP disorder. In fact, my therapist gave me one of those sunrizer alarm clocks to try out. I don't know if it helps yet. Time will tell. His site (psycheducation.org) is one that i visit over and over for new and old information.
So I'm not sure what's been up with my moods lately. over the past few days, I've had trouble getting out of bed, and falling asleep WAAY too early. BUT I've also had chills and weakness, and I've had a stabbing pain in my side (transient). So it may be kidney probs...I've had a stone before, and it felt like this before I had the excruciating, doubled over pain. I may go to an internal medicine doctor just to get it checked out, at the risk of looking like a hypochondriac. (do you do that? I sometimes think I have illnesses when I'm depressed or anxious, but then it turns out to be nothing. Embarassing.)
So did you take 3g of fish oil and felt better? Or 9g? I didn't quite catch that. How is everything going with you? Besides the past few days, I've been ok. Just a bit down.
take care!
Katy
Posted by ginger C on November 24, 2003, at 10:32:15
In reply to Re: bipolar world, posted by fluffy on November 24, 2003, at 8:19:20
I have been looking at your posts and I am interested in knowing what Bipolar World is. Is it another site and how do I get there?
Posted by katia on November 24, 2003, at 14:53:13
In reply to Re: bipolar world, posted by ginger C on November 24, 2003, at 10:32:15
it's a website with lots of info in regards to bipolar. There is a docotor and a psychologist who answer questions on line.
www.bipolarworld.net
Posted by katia on November 24, 2003, at 15:10:57
In reply to Re: bipolar world, posted by fluffy on November 24, 2003, at 8:19:20
**Hi Katy,
I'd be interested to know if your clock works. When do you normally get up and go to bed? It wouldn't work for me because I get up between 11-12! I'd like to change it, but it's hard working nights.
> So I'm not sure what's been up with my moods lately. over the past few days, I've had trouble getting out of bed, and falling asleep WAAY too early. BUT I've also had chills and weakness, and I've had a stabbing pain in my side (transient). So it may be kidney probs...I've had a stone before, and it felt like this before I had the excruciating, doubled over pain. I may go to an internal medicine doctor just to get it checked out, at the risk of looking like a hypochondriac. (do you do that? I sometimes think I have illnesses when I'm depressed or anxious, but then it turns out to be nothing. Embarassing.)
**Heck yes. Before I realized I was depressed, it was worse. I was sure I had every illness out there. My Dad jokes and says I'm the only person who's survived cancer over a 100 times. As many times that I've called them (my parents) worried about an ailment (my Mom's a nurse). It's a common thing for depressed people to be hypochondriacs. For me, I KNEW something was wrong, I just didn't know WHAT.In regards to Trileptal, does it process through the kidneys? I know Lamictal does. Also, did you know that (I think this is the case with Trileptal - it is with Tegretol) that Lamictal levels drop by half when you introduce Trileptal? With Depakote it was the opposite.
just a thought if your mood worsened since taking it. You may need to up the Lam.
> So did you take 3g of fish oil and felt better? Or 9g? I didn't quite catch that. How is everything going with you? Besides the past few days, I've been ok. Just a bit down.**As of yesterday, I began taking 9g of fish oil. I'd been taking 3g, but not a real effect.
I found Barbara's post re: where to buy the cheapest and best. it's Carlson's "The very best fish oil".Again, my mood has lifted since upping the Lam. to 125mg. I'm just waiting for the predictable inevitable crash that happens five six days later! I hope it finally sticks somewhere! I'm reluctant to try Lithium or Tri. at this point. I don't want to overmedicate if the Lam. will work alone. I'm taking 900mg of neurontin and 6mg of Seroquel for sleep! I have trouble falling asleep so I need all these meds; but then I sleep for 10 hours!
I've been binge drinking like crazy. I've had about three or four big nights since "falling off the wagon", not to mention the other nights of just one glass. I've told myself "go crazy until after Thanksgiving". "then go to AA or LifeRing or something! and get your diet together and blah blah blah" all those things I should be doing. I crashed so hard a little over a week ago when I fell off the wagon; it was inevitable!
take good care,
katia
Posted by katia on November 24, 2003, at 17:52:21
In reply to Re: bipolar world, posted by fluffy on November 24, 2003, at 8:19:20
One quick question katy,
Did you get an email sent to you saying that your question was answered? I've asked like three and haven't seen them and wonder if they email to let me know an answer is waiting. Do you know?
thanks.
katia
Posted by fluffy on November 25, 2003, at 13:56:29
In reply to Re: bipolar world » fluffy, posted by katia on November 24, 2003, at 17:52:21
Hey Katia--
Hmmm. I have wondered about upping the Lamictal a notch. Apparently, Trileptal doesn't break things down like Tegretol in the liver. But it's hard to say since it's being used off label, and there aren't many clinical trials to back up what it does to other drugs. I'll ask the doc next time. It's definitely possible that Lamictal or Trileptal are contrubuting to kidney stones. As for a clear track record, it seems that Topomax is the most guilty culprit to cause them.
I did get word back via e-mail about my question being answered on bipolar world. It took about a month and a half, though. Maybe he is looking for particular questions--ones that haven't been answered lately. Hard to tell. It's a good website, although the graphics are CHEEEESY! They should get one of their creative bipolar people to redesign the damned thing.
The alarm clock is good. It kind of warns you kindly that it's time to get up before it beeps. As far as your schedule goes, I don't know. There's plenty of sun out by the time you wake up. But if it's cloudy (isn't San Fran pretty gray most of the time?) it wouldn't hurt to try. The sunrizer is about $100. I pay that much in prescriptions in a couple of months anyway.
So I don't really care if I'm being alarmist about a kidney stone. At any rate, I felt like poop for a couple of days, whether it was anxious depression or just a virus or a kidney stone knocking at my urethra's door. I'll find out soon. I don't think I'm making up the stabbing pain though. But I have been known to have "phantom" pains. Good to know the hypochondriasis is not just me!
Take care--glad you are having some stability, even if it is transient right now.
hugs,
Katy
Posted by katia on November 25, 2003, at 16:54:35
In reply to Re: bipolar world, posted by fluffy on November 25, 2003, at 13:56:29
Hi Katy,
The thing about that clock is that it acts like a sun rising before the actual sun does rise right? Since the sun is already up (and I have to cover my face to keep sleeping), I don't see how it'd be useful for me. I would love to be on a 10-6 schedule. Maybe one of these days.
warmly,
katia
Posted by blancale on December 3, 2003, at 17:20:44
In reply to Lamictal side effects, posted by seamus o'noolan on June 30, 2003, at 17:37:40
this thread has been very interesting.
first, one question: when you folks say "i'm on 150 mg" or whatever dose, how many times a day is that? it would be helpful if people included that info.
i'm on lamictal for epileptic seizures - not for bipolar or unipolar or anxiety - 200mg once a day when i go to bed (because my full body seizures are only in my sleep). i came upon this thread becuase i've been having some unusual body functions and wanted to know if anyone else did .
i note the reports of itching ... i didn't have itching, but for about 2 weeks i felt like little tiny bugs were crawling all over my body and i was contantly checking my clothes and my bed for any sign of fleas or insects and found nothing. it eventually went away.
now, i have random muscle spasms in weird places - in my abdomen, in my calves that last a long time. i also have been slowly gaining weight - although most of you report no weight gain, i'm wondering if anyone out there has.
i may also have anxiety/panic disorder contributing to my seizures- that has yet to be formally diagnosed - and have looked into arsenic as a homeopathic remedy (recommended by many herbalist sources i've read). anyone ever tried it?
any info on these things would be much appreciated.
for those of you who are bipolar - i'm reading a really good book about it right now called "Detour: My Experience with Bipolar in 4D" (or somethign like that) by Lizzie Simon. Narrative non-ficition and a very good book.
thanks much. be well.
Posted by katia on December 3, 2003, at 17:36:46
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects + arsenic for anxiety, posted by blancale on December 3, 2003, at 17:20:44
> first, one question: when you folks say "i'm on 150 mg" or whatever dose, how many times a day is that? it would be helpful if people included that info.
**Hi,
I'm on 150mg now. and I take it after lunch because it sometimes gives me a burst of energy.> i note the reports of itching ... i didn't have itching, but for about 2 weeks i felt like little tiny bugs were crawling all over my body and i was contantly checking my clothes and my bed for any sign of fleas or insects and found nothing. it eventually went away.
**I haven't experienced this on Lam. but I have experienced it when not on anything!
> now, i have random muscle spasms in weird places - in my abdomen, in my calves that last a
**Nope on that one either.
> i may also have anxiety/panic disorder contributing to my seizures- that has yet to be formally diagnosed - and have looked into arsenic as a homeopathic remedy (recommended by many herbalist sources i've read). anyone ever tried it?
**ARSENIC!!!????
I haven't heard of this one.> for those of you who are bipolar - i'm reading a really good book about it right now called "Detour: My Experience with Bipolar in 4D" (or somethign like that) by Lizzie Simon. Narrative non-ficition and a very good book.
Thanks for the recommendation.
katia
Posted by blancale on December 3, 2003, at 19:00:59
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects + arsenic for anxiety » blancale, posted by katia on December 3, 2003, at 17:36:46
thanks. here's the info on arsenic:
"Another main focus for Arsenicum Album usage is in treating fear and anxiety that may be accompanied with chills, restlessness, fatigue and an increase in pulse rate. "
Posted by fluffy on December 4, 2003, at 11:23:48
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects + arsenic for anxiety, posted by blancale on December 3, 2003, at 19:00:59
Hi Blancale--
Hmm. I'm not sure about this arsenic stuff, as it seems to be rather middle ages...Maybe i'm just being overly squeemish. I'm pale enough as it is. The only thing i know about it is that Victorian women took it to look as pale as ghosts, basically poisoning themselves. It would explain the fainting as well as the tightly drawn corsets. Why not try good old fashioned cognitive therapy. It's been shown as effective as the SSRI's to quell something that's not largely chemical. If it is chemical, then I've heard that Neurontin does a bang up job for anxiety. My aunt swears by it. It's better than the benzo alternative. But Klonopin is also very effective, and is classified as an anti-siezure drug as well.
I also had the itching bugs crawling thing when starting another anti-epileptic...trileptal. When I first started Lamictal, I had a lot of tingling, and some twitching which went away, too. I think it's more common with Topomax, but you know, anything dealing with nerve endings can cause this stuff. As long as it's transient, it probably is no cause for alarm. You body is adjusting to your central nervous system adjusting.
I'd like to field another question, if I may...a bit off the subject. I think my sodium levels are dropping on Trileptal. It can be a side effect, serious if left untreated. I've been nauseous, weak, tired, and I have numbness in my face that comes and goes. This is probably working my kidneys pretty hard, and it would explain the kidney pain as well. I went to get a blood check yesterday. I hope this is easily solved, (maybe a pretzel a day?) as the 600mg of Trileptal (added to the 200mg of Lamictal) seems to have quelled my rapid cycling. But this nausea , weakness thing is just awful.
Blancale--I'm rapid cycling bipolar II, and I take 100mg of Lamictal at night, and 100mg in the day. I've been taking it for 8 months now, so I think it's ok (my doctor says) to just take all 200mg in the morning. I'm just used to the twice a day dosing, so I continue to do it. I think if you have enough in your system, the half life is long enough that it doesn't matter...once or twice a day. Whichever is convenient for you. I've also heard that epileptics can take higher doses of Lamictal depending on effectiveness. The clinical studies for BP depression show that there is little more effectiveness beyond 200mg.
Katia--What's going on with you, my friend? Long time, no post!
Posted by katia on December 4, 2003, at 15:55:45
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects + arsenic for anxiety, posted by fluffy on December 4, 2003, at 11:23:48
Hi Fluffsters!
Long time no hear! I've been here, but no one has posted anything really. Which has been a nice break - I've gotten a lot of other writing done! But great to hear from you.
I'm getting ready to up my levels to 175mg (once a day of Lam.). I'm taking 10g of fish oil a day and it seems to help some with the depression? It may have been the increase in Lam.? I'm down today and yesterday as it's been a week at 150mg now already - and it fades so quickly for me. Not to mention I've been drinking like a fish - well not quite bad as a fish, but I've had some nights of enough to give me a whooping hangover the next day. I'm having a hard time making another committment to stop. Maybe I shall go to one of those meetings...just feeling defeated, deflated, cynical, unmotivated - yes depression but it's also about self-esteem = depression! I pushed my pdoc appt. back to the 19th to see how I fare on fish oil and Lam. at 200mg (the therapeutic level). And the goal is to not drink anything. It's such a vicious cycle because I get depressed when I eliminate that and do it to get better then feel worse, but a different worse, more a numbing foggy headed just trying to get over the hangover feeling rather than the brute force of awareness. But I guess that says something, I"m not better if I'm depressed while in sobriety. The symptoms of depression are stark telling on their own. no masking.BTW, I've heard people taking more than 200mg and it doing something for them and only beyond that. If i'm not better by the 19th, I'll probably start Lithium. I'm so reluctant to do so b/c of the hypothyroid thing and weight gain. i've already gained almost twenty lbs. this year - my absolute limit.
Again, anyone out there know if hypothyroid starts when taking Lithium does it end when stopping Li?
Glad to hear you're well - apart from your kidney problems.
I wonder what happened to Barbara??!!
take care,
Katia
Posted by katia on December 4, 2003, at 16:08:53
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects + arsenic for anxiety, posted by blancale on December 3, 2003, at 19:00:59
Hi Blancale,
I'm not that versed in homeopathic remedies and I know there are some "strange" sounding ones, like arsenic - which can probably work and is safe if administered properly; there's probably just misconceptions around it. You might want to try and post at the Alternative Board and see who responds.
good luck.
Katia> thanks. here's the info on arsenic:
>
> "Another main focus for Arsenicum Album usage is in treating fear and anxiety that may be accompanied with chills, restlessness, fatigue and an increase in pulse rate. "
>
> http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/alt/arsenicum_album_faq.htm
Posted by fluffy on December 4, 2003, at 16:31:47
In reply to Lithium and hypothyroid question (at end of poat) » fluffy, posted by katia on December 4, 2003, at 15:55:45
Hey Katia--
Well even if you're not feeling tip-top, sounds like you are coming to terms with some stuff. It's tough to realize everything at once, like a big, undefined weight laying on top of you, and with a clinical name attached to it (Bipolar). It's been helping me a lot to go to a therapist who is well versed in the bipolar business. She really helps me work through relationship stuff, and shame of the diagnosis...and just coping with depression. Like she helps me to have a plan when I don't want to eat. Her suggestion: just keep some soup laying around, and don't feel overwhelmed. Just pop it on the stove, eat what you can, and don't beat yourself up for not having an appetite. (just common sense stuff that I'm not thinking about when I'm depressed).
So I got some discouraging news this afternoon. Turns out my sodium levels are low! The bad part about it is that they will continue to drop as long as I'm on Trileptal, and it can end up being very dangerous. It can end up with seizures, vomiting, coma, even DEATH!!! So unfortunately, I'm tapering off this week and getting my levels checked again. AGAIN, I'm part of the 3% of people with adverse side effects that don't seem to effect the majority of folks taking gold standard drugs. PPPPOOOOOOOPPPP!!! Back to the drawing board. aaarrghhgh. The good news is that at least I know that I don't have a mysterious illness with no cure.
As for the Lithium. I wouldn't be too scared. It can of course cause thyroid problems, but they can be remedied with supplements, as much of a pain as that is. Lots of people have ZERO problems. So just cross that bridge when you come to it. I would continue to take trileptal, even with the sodium problem, if there was some kind of supplement to fix it. But alas, the only way is to get rid of it. So at least, most Li problems are easy to fix. The thirst is annoying, but tolerable if you have a stable mood. And the weight gain...it's probably not nearly as bad as zyprexa or depakote in the chubs department. (those are my next options...new jeans, here I come!)
The alchohol thing is tough to deal with. I've had my share of dipping into it, but not really to remedy depression. Usually I drink if I'm hypomanic....PAAARRRTYYY! Then I feel mellowed out for a day or two, and then start again with another binge. It sure doesn't hurt to get some support if you feel it is becoming bigger than you, and damaging your mood stability. I'm struggling with my cigarette addiction right now. It's so, so hard to quit. I'm trying this week, though.
So glad to hear from you. Keep in touch, okay? I'll let you know what happens with this sodium BS.
hugs,
katy
Posted by katia on December 4, 2003, at 17:15:15
In reply to Re: Lithium and hypothyroid question (at end of po, posted by fluffy on December 4, 2003, at 16:31:47
Hi Katy,
I also have a weekly therapist - over a year now. it definitely is needed!!!
>
> So I got some discouraging news this afternoon. Turns out my sodium levels are low! The bad part about it is that they will continue to drop as long as I'm on Trileptal, and it can end up being very dangerous. It can end up with seizures, vomiting, coma, even DEATH!!!**Sorry to hear about that! You know, you'd probably do well on Depakote. I actually didn't gain any weight on it. It just caused extreme fatigue late in the afternoon. Probably something that wouldn't have lasted over time. If you do well on Trileptal, I've heard that you'd do well on Depakote.
> As for the Lithium. I wouldn't be too scared. It can of course cause thyroid problems, but they can be remedied with supplements, as much of a pain as that is. Lots of people have ZERO problems. So just cross that bridge when you come to it. I would continue to take trileptal, even with the sodium problem, if there was some kind of supplement to fix it. But alas, the only way is to get rid of it. So at least, most Li problems are easy to fix.
** yes, I know. but I don't want to take yet MORE pills. and I don't want to mess around with my thyroid. I don't want to permanently damage it for a temporary trial and error.
> The alchohol thing is tough to deal with. I've had my share of dipping into it, but not really to remedy depression. Usually I drink if I'm hypomanic....PAAARRRTYYY! Then I feel mellowed out for a day or two, and then start again with another binge.
**I'm both. When depressed - drink. When hypo - DRINK!!!
I'm sorry to hear you have to come off of Tril. But I think you'd do well on Depakote. From what I remember of you, you need to gain weight anyway. And I didn't gain weight on it.
good luck to you.
hugs back -
katia
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.