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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dalilah on November 9, 2003, at 16:45:06
In reply to Re: Dalilah: Lamictal side effects » Dalilah, posted by katia on November 9, 2003, at 16:02:32
> Dalilah,
> Maybe I missed some of your posts before, but are you also on a combo of Lithium and Lamictal? What did you start first?D: Yes Lithium and Lam. I started Lithium first.
Glad to hear that 275 is working for you. Do you find when you titrate up on Lam. you get an initial buzz that wears off after a few days?
D: Not really a buzz. I get angry and irritated, but it goes away after a few days.
And does this plateau? or does depression come back?
D: Still depression creeps in somedays/weeks...
> When did you add Lithium? Is your dx BPII?
D: Yes.
> Do you experience mixed or rapid cycling?
I don't know anymore. I guess. I was manic my whole life, and a major drug addict. The depression I've experienced since getting sober has been so harsh. I literally did not get out of bed for a year.
> thanks.
> Katia
> p.s. what is your dose of LI?D: 600mg Lithium, though I've been on 900 and 1200 before. Lithium is good. Lamictal is good. Both together have been good.
Posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 0:54:47
In reply to Re: Dalilah: Lamictal side effects, posted by Dalilah on November 9, 2003, at 16:45:06
> D: Yes Lithium and Lam. I started Lithium first.
> D: Still depression creeps in somedays/weeks...**How long were on Li. before starting Lam?
Was Li. not effective on its own?> I don't know anymore. I guess. I was manic my whole life, and a major drug addict. The depression I've experienced since getting sober has been so harsh. I literally did not get out of bed for a year.
**So you've only just been thru' your first depression? wow! How old are you? When you say manic, do you mean hypomanic? So you were in a constant state of near euphoria for how long? Why then did you finally get help? probably b/c you got sober and depressed and then realized that what you had been experiencing much of your life was mania/hypo? Did the drugs induce your mania, or was it there prior?
I've been depressed all my life, interspersed with little periods of hypomania and lots of mixed states/dysphoric. I'm 33. When I up the Lamictal, I get a buzz. I feel great. I love it - it gives me windows into what it feels like to be normal.
take care,
Katia
Posted by nmk on November 10, 2003, at 10:51:15
In reply to Re: Hello gals... » nmk, posted by katia on November 9, 2003, at 14:45:33
Thanks for the reply Katia. You are SO lucky that the tiny amount of Seroquel you take knocks you out. Last night I didn't even touch the seroquel and ended up taking restoril which I had taken years ago and stashed away. My pdoc is out of town until Thurs. and I have lowered my dose of Lam from 300mg to 250 to see if that helps tonight.
I know that you have to increase sloooowly with Lam. but do you know if you have to decrease just as slowly?
Thanks Katia,
Nicole
Posted by nmk on November 10, 2003, at 11:01:30
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on November 5, 2003, at 14:45:42
Thanks Barbara. I too remember the days of Pergonal and Gonal F injections since it took 7 tries of artificial insemination to conceive my twins. It was an emotional rollercoaster and I shudder to head down that path again. My pdoc said that some women even resort to a hysterectomy and 50% of the time they have no relief from their previous symptoms.
I have tried Vitex and all the other natural hormonal remedies to no avail. So, I will continue with the Lam, despite the SEVERE insomnia I am having. I have decreased it to 250 mg to see if that helps tonight. I told Katia that I had taken 50 mg of seroquel the other night and although it initially knocked me out, I was up after five hours and wide awake. I felt like crap the next day and vowed NEVER to do that to myself again. My pdoc is out of town and I had to try whatever will get me some zzzz's.
I asked Katia this too but do you know if you can decrease the Lam. at a faster rate than when you increase?? I dropped from 300mg to 250 mg today to see if that will help with the insomnia but don't know if I can decrease that quickly by 50 mg.
Let me know how you are feeling and I hope everything is looking up these days.
Nicole:)))
Posted by Dalilah on November 10, 2003, at 11:32:13
In reply to Re: Dalilah: Lamictal side effects, posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 0:54:47
Hey Katia,
I was on Lithium for about 6 months before the Lam. It helped a lot, but the depression was still pretty harsh. That's where the Lam came in.Oh no, I've been depressed a lot of my life. That was just my first 12-month depression (very scary.) It's so hard to determine my past ups and downs cause I didn't get diagnosed with the bipolar til 32. I'm 35. Now I have to re-examine my whole life in terms of manic/depression, so it's hard to say.
Anyhow, I sure used the drugs to deal with depression. And yes just hypo-mania, and not drug-induced. Of course cocaine made me feel good, but also quite horrible. In my daily life I was incredibly productive, I mean more than the average person. I had several business, completed college with honors, made an endless, amount of art, (all at the same time) and slept very little - in general. I never stopped. It was impressive, but ultimately took it's toll. It's quite possible I experienced a lot of mixed states.
Now I must (when feeling good) force my sleep, not overwork, try to be normal. Cause too much up leads to down (and that's intolerable.)
I too experience good feelings when I up the Lam but it doesn't necessarily go away, maybe just evens out. How much Lam do you take (150?), cause I'm serious, it didn't help me til 200mg.
-Dalilah
> > D: Yes Lithium and Lam. I started Lithium first.
> > D: Still depression creeps in somedays/weeks...
>
> **How long were on Li. before starting Lam?
> Was Li. not effective on its own?
>
> > I don't know anymore. I guess. I was manic my whole life, and a major drug addict. The depression I've experienced since getting sober has been so harsh. I literally did not get out of bed for a year.
>
> **So you've only just been thru' your first depression? wow! How old are you? When you say manic, do you mean hypomanic? So you were in a constant state of near euphoria for how long? Why then did you finally get help? probably b/c you got sober and depressed and then realized that what you had been experiencing much of your life was mania/hypo? Did the drugs induce your mania, or was it there prior?
>
> I've been depressed all my life, interspersed with little periods of hypomania and lots of mixed states/dysphoric. I'm 33. When I up the Lamictal, I get a buzz. I feel great. I love it - it gives me windows into what it feels like to be normal.
>
> take care,
> Katia
>
Posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 14:23:32
In reply to Lamictal insomnia » katia, posted by nmk on November 10, 2003, at 10:51:15
HI,
I don't think you need to titrate down from Lam. slowly. I think I was reading somewhere that even stopping cold turkey isn't dangerous. don't quote me however, but I think what you did was fine.
btw, what is restoril?
k.
Posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 14:49:17
In reply to Re: Dalilah: Lamictal side effects, posted by Dalilah on November 10, 2003, at 11:32:13
> Oh no, I've been depressed a lot of my life. That was just my first 12-month depression (very scary.) It's so hard to determine my past ups and downs cause I didn't get diagnosed with the bipolar til 32. I'm 35. Now I have to re-examine my whole life in terms of manic/depression, so it's hard to say.
**Hi Dalilah, I'm 33 yrs. old and just got dxed as BPII when I was ending my 32nd year - just months ago. During last year, I was on different ADs thinking i was only unidepressed. But now I know. It's very bizarre isn't it to have to reflect back on your life through a different lens (re-examine as you say). For me it's positive and negative. one, it brings a sigh of relief - like "oh! no wonder! it all makes sense now". and the other side, geezzzz, what was me and what was bipolar? And who am I by the way?!
It's a discombobulating time, but also a time for clarity.
That's great that you were able to accomplish so much and be productive. For me, it's just been crazy - tons of jobs, tons of lovers/boyfriends, lived in about five different countries. Everything just felt chaotic. So I don't really have any skills. well, I'm almost finished with grad school in psychology (yes how funny), so that will be my new career and my first real career. I'm kinda like a jack of all trades with no expertise anywhere. But I'm still young. Still time for career, partner/husband (same person :-) ,and children.
I'm only at 100mg of Lamictal and with the increase of the dose from 50mg, I feel so much better. I just got off of Depakote due to the Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome danger. And I was still looping and rapid cycling on it. So the next augment will be lithium if we need to go there. I'm worried a bit about the irritability with Lam. as that's been my main trait of hypomania anyway. Very rarely have I experienced the productive euphoric aspect of "mania" like you did, unfortunately. I've had more of a very fiery, wild temperment - lots of fights with boyfriends etc. quitting jobs, blah blah blah
Have you experienced any insomnia from Lamictal?
>>Of course cocaine made me feel good, but also quite horrible. In my daily life I was incredibly productive, I mean more than the average person. I had several business, completed college with honors, made an endless, amount of art, (all at the same time) and slept very little - in general. I never stopped. It was impressive, but ultimately took it's toll. It's quite possible I experienced a lot of mixed states.**Wow. How long did that go on for - the little sleeping and never stopping? I think some people level out and have a general up or general down. I've definitely been down as my normal way of being, with brief periods of hypo and mixed.
> Now I must (when feeling good) force my sleep, not overwork, try to be normal. Cause too much up leads to down (and that's intolerable.)
** yeah, that is hard. I'm learning also not to take on too much and just focus on what I've already gotten started. That's been hard. How do you force yourself to sleep? I have to take something if I'm too up.
> I too experience good feelings when I up the Lam but it doesn't necessarily go away, maybe just evens out. How much Lam do you take (150?), cause I'm serious, it didn't help me til 200mg.
**that's good to hear.
take care,
Katia
p.s. I was looking up a word in the dictionary to check for spelling and I immediately opened to flibbertigibbet - a flighty chattering person.....
Posted by nmk on November 10, 2003, at 15:08:34
In reply to Re: Lamictal insomnia » nmk, posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 14:23:32
> HI,
> I don't think you need to titrate down from Lam. slowly. I think I was reading somewhere that even stopping cold turkey isn't dangerous. don't quote me however, but I think what you did was fine.
> btw, what is restoril?
> k.Thanks Katia. Restoril (sp?) is a sleeping pill similar to Ambien. I take a 10 mg pill and 20 minutes later, I am peacefully asleep until 5 am when I am wide awake.
Nicole:)
Posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 15:28:58
In reply to Re: Lamictal insomnia » katia, posted by nmk on November 10, 2003, at 15:08:34
Hi anyone and everyone,
Just curious....specifically towards you Barbara,
you mentioned that if you take sleeping pills, then you don't get the REM sleep, right? What if you take something like Seroquel or Trazadone (an antipsychotic or antidepressant), do you or anyone else know if this allows for a healthy night's sleep?
Just curious, because I'd like to get some tranquilizers for sleep.
katia
Posted by Dalilah on November 10, 2003, at 17:26:29
In reply to a recovering flibbertigibbet » Dalilah, posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 14:49:17
Hey Katia,
>For me it's positive and negative. one, it brings a sigh of relief - like "oh! no wonder! it all makes sense now". and the other side, geezzzz, what was me and what was bipolar?
D: EXACTLY
> **Wow. How long did that go on for - the little sleeping and never stopping?
Can't say - years. But I did sleep and sometimes took out a couple days to sleep straight (especially after drugs.) I don't remember. There was so much craziness. But my general level was up/doing a lot. But don't think I didn't have the irritated crazy fighting behavior to go along with it. And I've quit every job I've ever had.
Now I must take seroquel (I try to keep it to 25mg) to sleep. I need it whether I'm on Lam or not. I always need it. Believe me, I've tried to get away from it cause I'm afraid it seems too much like a drug and messes with my sobriety. But I've decided that's not true. The stuff keeps me together. I suppose I might be able to sleep without it but I'd wake up 2 hours later.
It takes so much time and work to get your meds and schedule - your bipolar regiment - together. But sounds like you're doing great, being proactive. Too many people are not able or won't or don't know how (my dad) to demand the best health care for their mental illness. It takes a lot of energy and you know many times we don't have ANY enery.
-Dalilah
Posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 17:55:05
In reply to Re: a recovering flibbertigibbet, posted by Dalilah on November 10, 2003, at 17:26:29
> I don't remember. There was so much craziness. But my general level was up/doing a lot. But don't think I didn't have the irritated crazy fighting behavior to go along with it. And I've quit every job I've ever had.
**I hear you loud and clear.
>
> Now I must take seroquel (I try to keep it to 25mg) to sleep. I need it whether I'm on Lam or not. I always need it. Believe me, I've tried to get away from it cause I'm afraid it seems too much like a drug and messes with my sobriety. But I've decided that's not true. The stuff keeps me together. I suppose I might be able to sleep without it but I'd wake up 2 hours later.** yes, I"m thinking that I may just have to include a drug that gets me to sleep. When my sleep is out of whack, there goes my mood swings, then on to drinking, then onto affairs with strange men or rowdy behavior,etc.....
> It takes so much time and work to get your meds and schedule - your bipolar regiment - together. But sounds like you're doing great, being proactive. Too many people are not able or won't or don't know how (my dad) to demand the best health care for their mental illness. It takes a lot of energy and you know many times we don't have ANY enery.
**Ditto on that. My dad is depressed and has been for years with insomnia. Come to think about it, interspersed with "hyperness". hmmmmmm. But he won't address it and it drives me mad. (no pun intended). He won't even acknowledge that anything is off.
Katia
Posted by Dalilah on November 10, 2003, at 18:15:48
In reply to Re: a recovering flibbertigibbet, posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 17:55:05
Katia,
My doctor claims the seroquel acts with the lithium to provide mood stabalizing qualities. Anyhow, regular sleep is a major major part of getting our bipolar selves together. I seem to need 9+ hours. Really. I suppose it's good to be clean and sober so I can't go the drinking route. Stability.
Hey, I'm heading out of town for a few days, so I don't want you to think I'm ignoring your e-mails. Ask me anything you like, but wait til Thursday.
-Dalilah
Posted by katia on November 11, 2003, at 0:54:57
In reply to Re: a recovering flibbertigibbet, posted by Dalilah on November 10, 2003, at 18:15:48
> Katia,
>
> My doctor claims the seroquel acts with the lithium to provide mood stabalizing qualities. Anyhow, regular sleep is a major major part of getting our bipolar selves together. I seem to need 9+ hours. Really. I suppose it's good to be clean and sober so I can't go the drinking route. Stability.
>
> Hey, I'm heading out of town for a few days, so I don't want you to think I'm ignoring your e-mails. Ask me anything you like, but wait til Thursday.
>
> -Dalilah
Hi,
I'm with you on the clean and sober. I've stopped drinking - it's been over a month now w/ one minor slip up. I also need 9+ hrs. of sleep. It's odd. I think it's medication related. I've always been such an insomniac.
have a good trip.
cheerio-
katia
Posted by femlite on November 11, 2003, at 12:13:53
In reply to a recovering flibbertigibbet » Dalilah, posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 14:49:17
>>ere. I'm worried a bit about the irritability with Lam. as that's been my main trait of hypomania anyway. > Katia
May I jump in? Im lurking and new to Lamictal.
Ive jsut started and only on 25 mg. along with 300mg. WB. During the day I feel okay, not as motivated as Id like, (of course manic productivety is what Id like, really 'cause I think more clearly)
But my BP mania is characterized by irritability and Ive noticed its getting worse in the evening, perhaps as my meds wear off?
Anyway, i didnt know that irritablity was a SE.
Did i read that right?
Im really torturing my family right now, as the evening is when we are all home togeather. Im not at all sure what the answer is but sometimes it helps to know what the problem is.
I have benzos but I really hate to use them. I feel so downish and not very social when I take them. Maybe Im jsut not use to them. Ill take them if its a choice between dressing down my husband and children and being a recliner potatoe.
Posted by femlite on November 11, 2003, at 12:32:19
In reply to Re: Lamictal insomnia, posted by katia on November 10, 2003, at 15:28:58
Hi Katia
I was on trazadone. I think I slept okay and Im not sure why but once I woke, say 5 am (when my hubbys' alarm goes off) I was AWAKE. I liked that, but I didnt like the hangover. (and yes I took it as early as possible) For maybe an hour to two, I had real difficulty with physical coordination. And forget going to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Quite scary. But it did put me to sleep and I think the low level of serrotonin may have been of bennifit as conventinal ADs have been overwhelming for me.
> Hi anyone and everyone,
> Just curious....specifically towards you Barbara,
> you mentioned that if you take sleeping pills, then you don't get the REM sleep, right? What if you take something like Seroquel or Trazadone (an antipsychotic or antidepressant), do you or anyone else know if this allows for a healthy night's sleep?
> Just curious, because I'd like to get some tranquilizers for sleep.
> katia
Posted by katia on November 11, 2003, at 14:21:30
In reply to Lamictal and IRRITABILITY :0 » katia, posted by femlite on November 11, 2003, at 12:13:53
HI Femlite,
Yes, Lamictal is known to cause (as a s/e) irritability/agitation as you increase the dose. I've heard that it fades as your med adjusts.
But you are also on WB, which is also known to cause irritability. You've got a double whammy. I'm feeling ok on Lamictal, but i do have bouts of irritability. don't know if that's the mood disorder or Lam. I'll wait for awhile. I can already feel that it's a good med for me.
good luck. And try talking to you doctor as well.re: Trazadone. I was taking that for sleep before Ifound out I was Bipolar II/mixed. and now I take seroquel. But I do have a slight hangover and a hint of sadness the next day.
katia
Posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 19:12:47
In reply to Lamictal side effects, posted by seamus o'noolan on June 30, 2003, at 17:37:40
I have been on 200mgs of lamictal going on 7 weeks. I started with 25mgs. I am also on 100mgs prozac and 22.5mgs of remeron. On the 6th week I noticed that my unipolar depression had dramatically decreased, and, hopefully, I will be taking only lamictal, as prozac and remeron caused me to gain weight which my chronic low pain does not need. I am very happy with lamictal because I have been on AD's (zoloft,prozac,wellbutrin,celexa, effexor,elavil, remeron and now lamictal). Under my pdoc's care, I am wanting to add wellbutrin in place of the remeron, with lamictal eventually. Has anyone had any experience with this combo?
> Can anyone tell me of the side effects of Lamictal, or just any benifical info on the medicine
Posted by katia on November 12, 2003, at 19:58:17
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » seamus o'noolan, posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 19:12:47
I haven't had that combo; but am just now currently on Lamictal 100mg. It's DEFINITELY helped with my depression and cycling. (bipolar II). Are you uni-depressed or bipolar?
Posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 20:24:18
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by katia on November 12, 2003, at 19:58:17
I am unipolar. I have been diagnosed as clinically depressed since 1991 due to chronic low back pain from a traffic accident. Prozac was great for relieving my depression and so was zoloft. I rotated between prozac and zoloft but as you probably have read or experienced they eventually poop out. Lamictal hopefully won't poop out. Does anyone have any experience whether lamictal poops out or not?
> I haven't had that combo; but am just now currently on Lamictal 100mg. It's DEFINITELY helped with my depression and cycling. (bipolar II). Are you uni-depressed or bipolar?
Posted by poop'd-out on November 13, 2003, at 13:48:25
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » katia, posted by Flipsactown on November 12, 2003, at 20:24:18
Hi Katia, Flips,
I am about a month into my lamictal, I am only
at 62.5mg, we have had to go slow. I also take
tegretol, neurontin and zoloft. I haven't had the best luck with the lamictal so far.I was just wondering when and at what dose did the lamictal really start working for you?
I have had some response but then it just goes away and am left feeling tired and more depressed.
Do I just need to wait til I get at a higher dose?
What were your experiences? Thank you.
Posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 14:12:54
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by poop'd-out on November 13, 2003, at 13:48:25
Hi,
I actually started it when I was on Depakote. and dep. doubles the effect. I always had a zippy feeling at each increase, but then it leveled off. When I was at 50mg of Lamictal (so like 100mg of lam.) and still on Dep. I felt as even as I have been - not perfect, but better.
I got off of Depakote about two weeks ago and essentially my levels fell to 50mg. I had a rough rough time for about 10 days. It was when I upped it to 100mg (where I am now) did I feel a lift. I was falling fast there at 50mg. Now I'm ok - in a few weeks, I'd like to up it to 112.5 and see what happens. I still get tired a lot and can feel the depression right at my back. if when I up it to 112.5 I feel much better than I'll know that there WAS room for improvement. For now, I'm at 100mg and functioning in the world and feel altogether ok and better than I have in a very very long time. Are you bipolar or unipolar? I'm bp II. If you're bipolar, maybe the zoloft is making you feel like crap.
katia
Posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:23:09
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » poop'd-out, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 14:12:54
I am unipolar meaning no mania, just plain old depression. I have taken all of the newer AD's and after 12 years, none of them were effective until I took lamictal with prozac and remeron. I am weaning off the remeron and hopefully, the prozac also and be on only lamictal. It was in my 6th week on 200 mgs did I feel the dramatic lifting of my depression. Now into my 7 week at 300mgs, it is even more dramatic. I am my old self again. Thank goodness for the internet because that is how I found out about lamictal for treatment resistant depression. Lamictal was only prescribed as an anti-seizure med until they discovered it worked great for the treatment resistant depression. So, hang in there until 200mgs. It is worth the wait. Take care.
Flipsactown
> Hi,
> I actually started it when I was on Depakote. and dep. doubles the effect. I always had a zippy feeling at each increase, but then it leveled off. When I was at 50mg of Lamictal (so like 100mg of lam.) and still on Dep. I felt as even as I have been - not perfect, but better.
> I got off of Depakote about two weeks ago and essentially my levels fell to 50mg. I had a rough rough time for about 10 days. It was when I upped it to 100mg (where I am now) did I feel a lift. I was falling fast there at 50mg. Now I'm ok - in a few weeks, I'd like to up it to 112.5 and see what happens. I still get tired a lot and can feel the depression right at my back. if when I up it to 112.5 I feel much better than I'll know that there WAS room for improvement. For now, I'm at 100mg and functioning in the world and feel altogether ok and better than I have in a very very long time. Are you bipolar or unipolar? I'm bp II. If you're bipolar, maybe the zoloft is making you feel like crap.
> katia
Posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 16:25:43
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » katia, posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:23:09
Indeed. thank god for the internet and boards like this. I am the one who pursued it with my pdoc. Otherwise I don't think I would've gotten on it either. There's so much (somewhat rightly so) resistance to it due to the rash. Thank god I didn't get it, or at least not up 'til now.
My hopes are also up with Lamictal. Hopefully we'll both continue to do well on it.
katia
Posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:35:42
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 16:25:43
Katia,
Check out this link regarding lamictal.
http://www.bipolarworld.net/Phelps/ph_2003/ph1016.htmFlipsactown
> Indeed. thank god for the internet and boards like this. I am the one who pursued it with my pdoc. Otherwise I don't think I would've gotten on it either. There's so much (somewhat rightly so) resistance to it due to the rash. Thank god I didn't get it, or at least not up 'til now.
> My hopes are also up with Lamictal. Hopefully we'll both continue to do well on it.
> katia
Posted by Flipsactown on November 13, 2003, at 16:46:26
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » Flipsactown, posted by katia on November 13, 2003, at 16:25:43
I also pursued my pdoc to prescribe it to me. I am with Kaiser and this is the first time that I had to sign a waiver regarding the sometimes fatal rash. I think they were trying to discourage me in my quest for lamictal. You know, it is kind of funny because when I first took lamictal, I was looking at my arms, legs and, actually my entire body, for the rash every 5 seconds. I read that the rash can manifest itself even at 6 months, so we aren't entirely out of the woods yet, but I am out of the depression, hopefully for you also. Later.
Flipsactown
> Indeed. thank god for the internet and boards like this. I am the one who pursued it with my pdoc. Otherwise I don't think I would've gotten on it either. There's so much (somewhat rightly so) resistance to it due to the rash. Thank god I didn't get it, or at least not up 'til now.
> My hopes are also up with Lamictal. Hopefully we'll both continue to do well on it.
> katia
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