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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Salty_Dog on October 6, 2003, at 14:46:28
In reply to Electric Shocks, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 6, 2003, at 1:27:07
I have read about two or more people who have stopped taking Effexor XR and are experiencing SE's.
I hope none of you are going 'cold turkey'. As far as I am able to 'Black Box' how Effexor XR works, it appears as though it stimulates production of two transmitters or messengers unlike the SSRI which slow the absorbtion of these transmitters. It is not wise to stop 'cold turkey' unless you have a padded room in your home. I was lucky to have found Zyprexa and was on it for 2-3 weeks before I tappered off the Effexor. Granted, I tappered off pretty fast and I was also stopping Xanax which felt akin to stopping cocain but it passed in a realively short period of time (5-10 days). I would recomend this proceedure to anyone having bi-polar tendancies. I think the Electric Shocks are like priming a carborator with ether or even the itch you feel on a scratch. It may be an indication of 'healing".
Posted by Astred on October 6, 2003, at 15:14:29
In reply to Effexor and Urinary Retention? , posted by Cybertao on July 14, 2002, at 22:39:46
I feel for you. I am having the EXACT same side effects. My doctor started me on the 37.5's first and then worked up. The first couple of days that I took them, my jaw was killing me it was so tight. Then it would loosen up. Then he would up the dosage. And it would start all over again. It was just yesterday that I started the XR and I am miserable. I can try forever and barely do anything. It's killing me. My jaw is so sore. I stay dizzy which is a problem because I am epileptic and I already have problems with my Equilibrium. I wish you the best of luck. If you find out a solution, Please Let me know. My email is Astred@Comcast.net. I like the fact that I am not having the depression and I have been losing weight. But I don't like the other side effects.
Posted by Salty_Dog on October 6, 2003, at 17:06:37
In reply to Re: Effexor side effects - heart palpitations, posted by darthwribar on October 6, 2003, at 8:16:40
I have found a statement concerning arrhythmia and angina pectoris (chest pain) in < 1% of the trial victims. I also found a direct statement concerning withdrawl:
Abrupt Discontinuation of EFEXOR-XR: Discontinuation symptoms have been assessed both in patients with depression and in those with anxiety. Abrupt discontinuation, dose reduction, or tapering of venlafaxine at various doses has been found to be associated with the appearance of new symptoms, the frequency of which increased with increased dose level and with longer duration of treatment. Symptoms reported included agitation, anxiety, confusion, dry mouth, fatigue, paresthesias, vertigo, hypomania, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, headache, diarrhoea, sleep disturbance, insomnia, sweating and nervousness. Where such symptoms occurred, they were usually self-limiting, but in a few patients lasted for several weeks. Discontinuation effects are well known to occur with antidepressants. There is also a report of a withdrawal syndrome, confirmed by two challenges in a 32 year old woman who had received venlafaxine 300 mg daily for 8 months. It is therefore recommended that the dosage of EFEXOR-XR be tapered gradually and the patient monitored. The period required for discontinuation may depend on the dose, duration of therapy and the individual patient (See DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).
Posted by Salty_Dog on October 6, 2003, at 18:34:40
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! , posted by spacecase on October 6, 2003, at 12:28:09
I would like to take a poll on how many people on this BB take multiple medications for multiple reasons. The reason I ask is to identify the posiblity that the Trials conducted on Effexor XR where incomplete because they favored patients (victims) who where virgin to treatment and where not currently taking any thing else. I personally take several meds for bi-polar and seizure disorder (1 seizure). Bi-polar includes depression as well as elation and both can occur at the same time. My only seizure (not including withdrawl from alcohol/drugs) was probably the result of the Wellbutrin which is why I am taking Effexor again. In this State (NJ) anyone who has more than one seizure in the period of one year loses their Drivers License. If we could track the number and intensity of SE's as well as the various meds taken by each of you, we might see a correlation. I don't want to know your personal stuff, but if you let every one know via BB, then someone could see a trend if there is one.
BTW I could not even use a mouse or keyboard 6 weeks ago because of the twitching and involuntary muscle actions. Now if have no problem even though I still can't spell. I am begining to be able to think and remember much better than before taking the Effexor XR. With the addition of the Neurontin I have regained function (even "O") and feel, for the most part, good.
> Music,
> I don't know what would work for you because I don't know what conditions you have. But, I have bipolar disorder w/ psychotic symptoms (voices), ADHD, a little bit of OCD, anorexia, and bulumia, and tardive dyskinesia. I'm on Abilify, Topomax, Effexor XR, Adderall XR, Xanax XR. And I really feel good and wouldn't change my combination of medications right now because they just feel right. Have you ever been on Topomax? It's an anticonvulsant used for bipolar patients and it's also used for people with headaches, and I think it might be used for people with hard to treat depression but not sure. But, I'm on it for bipolar and bulimia. It's really hard to find the right medications. It took me trying over 25 antidepressants until Effexor.
Posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 1:34:29
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by BJL on October 6, 2003, at 10:54:37
You ARE helping!!!! That is exactly what I needed to hear. You say you are on day 12, does that mean the "electric shocks" are gone? How long and what dose did you take Effexor. I was at 150mg for about 8-9 years. My mood has felt better since I have been off of it with the exception of the shocks...they make me crazy. I have also noticed that I am very quick to being startled. If I am startled for any reason I feel it throughout my entire body and am instantly anxious and angry. I never used to startle so much. I hope things keep getting better for you from here on out (mainly for you) but also for the rest of us to use for feedback. I can't seem to find anyone who has stopped taking this (and not switched to another medicine). I don't want to take any more meds period. All my best to you as I know you have had to have suffered greatly because of stopping the Effexor and that is just not fair!
> Sufferfromeffexor, I know how tempting it is to start taking those pills, but hang in there. I'm feeling much better today (I'm on day 12 since last pill). Even my mood is better. I'm almost starting to feel like there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Hang in there! I wish I could do something to help everyone suffering! It truly sucks! -Bobbi-
Posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 1:51:04
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! , posted by Salty_Dog on October 6, 2003, at 18:34:40
I think we should all call the manufacturer of this drug (Wyeth Pharmaceuticals) and bug them every day, many times a day if we have too. I don't know about the rest of you but if I can't get answers from my doctors the next best place to go is to the "horse's mouth". I want answers to my questions and I believe I deserve them. I have paid them plenty of money by taking their drug for 8-9 years it is the least they can do. I am going to start calling them tomorrow and I will call many times a day if I need to, to get answers! Power comes in numbers though doesn't it? I think everyone concerned should do the same and just start calling...it is a free number to call. Just my suggestion due to my constant and acute FRUSTRATION and panic!
Posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
The past week I've been waking up during the night and I have a lot of trouble getting back to sleep. These past few nights have been much worse, I'm maybe averaging 4 - 5 hours of sleep per night. Last night I actually got out of bed and watched TV for a few hours because I was wide awake. I've read postings of people having trouble sleeping when taking effexor. I've been on it for almost a year and had never experienced this.
I was wondering if these people experienced the insomnia right away after starting effexor or had it become a problem after taking the drug for a while? It's so easy to point the finger at the drug and I don't want to do that unless others have experienced the same result. Look forward to any responses...Willie
Posted by slinky on October 7, 2003, at 6:51:14
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
I can't remember when i started to reduce..but I reduced to 150 about 3 weeks ago.
The prozac helps a lot with the physical symptoms..but I've dropped into depression, sleeping more than 15hours out of 24.
Panick attacks and nervousness has returned--when i am awake
I go from intense suicidle thoughts to intense fear of dying thoughts.
I need to keep this up because efexor dealt with anxiety but not the depression...I've been on it about 5 years.
I'm not angry at drug manufacters because i was heading for death with alcohol before i took the drug..so it saved my life...
This is hard drug to quit.
Posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:10:17
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
Insomnia...why of course! I don't remember when it started exactly but I know it didn't start until after I was taking this medication...and now that I am coming off of it the insomnia is even worse!
> The past week I've been waking up during the night and I have a lot of trouble getting back to sleep. These past few nights have been much worse, I'm maybe averaging 4 - 5 hours of sleep per night. Last night I actually got out of bed and watched TV for a few hours because I was wide awake. I've read postings of people having trouble sleeping when taking effexor. I've been on it for almost a year and had never experienced this.
> I was wondering if these people experienced the insomnia right away after starting effexor or had it become a problem after taking the drug for a while? It's so easy to point the finger at the drug and I don't want to do that unless others have experienced the same result. Look forward to any responses...Willie
Posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:17:57
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread, posted by slinky on October 7, 2003, at 6:51:14
I don't know who I am mad at anymore...or should I say most mad at...the manufacturer or the actual doc that prescribes it and doesn't fulfill his duties by monitoring you while you are on it??? Hmmmm! I did call Wyeth this morning and just as I figured, they couldn't give me any information. They said they don't know the exact mechanism that causes the electric shocks only that they assume it is the brain chemicles rebalancing themselves again. I asked specifically if there were reports of permanent damage from these and they told me no! Other than that I didn't learn anything knew and nothing enlightening. I hate not being able to get answers from people!
Posted by BJL on October 7, 2003, at 10:00:41
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 1:34:29
Suffer,
The electric shocks are very minimal now. I was on Paxil for 2-1/2 years and Effexor only for a few months. I went up to 150 mg and then came back down pretty quick. Paxil has many similarities to Effexor (especially since I tried to go off it once and had the EXACT same withdrawal symptoms). Keep your chin up!!
Posted by Music on October 7, 2003, at 10:16:47
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:17:57
I have been diagnosed with major depression that is recurrent and OCD, and a little anxiety. I want to have an "O" if I am going to have sex. I want something out of sex with my husband. Anyway, I have not tried anything except Effexor XR. I just started AD's the end of June 03'. So I am new to this ball park. I want to feel better and I have with Effexor XR finally at 300mg per day. Did not feel better until recently it took 300mg to feel better. I don't know if I could take something along with Effexor XR that would help in the sex catagory. Any suggestions would help.
Music
Posted by Salty_Dog on October 7, 2003, at 12:32:09
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
I am not a Dr., but it sounds like you have developed a different form of depression. Remember, each drug works on a different pathway in the brain. If your brain has decided (triggered) to become depressed, it will use any pathway it can to accomplish it. The preceeding is just a theory. Effexor is not a cure all for depression. Let your Dr. know what is happening if it persists.
Posted by J9 on October 7, 2003, at 14:06:34
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
Willie,
I had the same problem too since day one on effexor. I take 150mg. my pdoc prescribed 50mg of Trazodone to take a bedtime. It works WONDERS!!J9
The past week I've been waking up during the night and I have a lot of trouble getting back to sleep. These past few nights have been much worse, I'm maybe averaging 4 - 5 hours of sleep per night. Last night I actually got out of bed and watched TV for a few hours because I was wide awake. I've read postings of people having trouble sleeping when taking effexor. I've been on it for almost a year and had never experienced this.
> I was wondering if these people experienced the insomnia right away after starting effexor or had it become a problem after taking the drug for a while? It's so easy to point the finger at the drug and I don't want to do that unless others have experienced the same result. Look forward to any responses...Willie
Posted by Mercedes on October 7, 2003, at 15:07:26
In reply to Just curious...., posted by willie on October 7, 2003, at 6:34:58
Hi Willie,
It is the drug - Effexor. I took 37.5 mgs for about a year then another pdoc said it was a low dose and started my increase to finally get to 300mgs. During the 1st increase, 75mgs, I started with the insomnia, only 4 hrs per night, and lasted all the way thru 300mgs. I'm on the decrease now, and still have the 4 maybe 5 hrs of sleep. During the time I was taking it, I would simply fall asleep any time of day, extreemly lathargic. I'm quiting effexor due to so many other SE's. Vision, Tennitus, High Blood Pressure, Lack of Concentration, No Memory, Comprehension problems, you name it, I got it... Going down to 37.5 tomorrow and for a week or so, then OFF completely. Sorry but it's Effexor.
Mercedes
************************************> The past week I've been waking up during the night and I have a lot of trouble getting back to sleep. These past few nights have been much worse, I'm maybe averaging 4 - 5 hours of sleep per night. Last night I actually got out of bed and watched TV for a few hours because I was wide awake. I've read postings of people having trouble sleeping when taking effexor. I've been on it for almost a year and had never experienced this.
> I was wondering if these people experienced the insomnia right away after starting effexor or had it become a problem after taking the drug for a while? It's so easy to point the finger at the drug and I don't want to do that unless others have experienced the same result. Look forward to any responses...Willie
Posted by Mercedes on October 7, 2003, at 15:37:16
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:17:57
Me too. Get the electric shocks on any sudden noise. I just took a drink from my water bottel and after I set it down, it made a crakling noise and yep, the electric shock like needles coming out of my body affect. AND the worse part is I am also taking xanex and still get the shocks. I just don't know anymore. Not working, Can't work, can't think, feeling desperate.
Thanks for calling. Will you pls share the #.?
Just a FYI, as I know it, it's the manufactures like Wyeth that starts the process. They test it and then they have their sales people push it on to the PDocs, give them samples, etc. They, along with the Distribution co's get together and pay for the advertising of the drug. The pharmacies get rebates ($$) from the dist. co's., for every prescription they fill, the pharmacies pay the dr's a percent for every prescription they write. Everyone makes money and they are very happy. Well, my blurred vision is getting worse, better stop while I'm ahead.
Mercedes> I don't know who I am mad at anymore...or should I say most mad at...the manufacturer or the actual doc that prescribes it and doesn't fulfill his duties by monitoring you while you are on it??? Hmmmm! I did call Wyeth this morning and just as I figured, they couldn't give me any information. They said they don't know the exact mechanism that causes the electric shocks only that they assume it is the brain chemicles rebalancing themselves again. I asked specifically if there were reports of permanent damage from these and they told me no! Other than that I didn't learn anything knew and nothing enlightening. I hate not being able to get answers from people!
Posted by lioness on October 7, 2003, at 22:43:37
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread » Sufferfromeffexor, posted by Mercedes on October 7, 2003, at 15:37:16
> Me too. Get the electric shocks on any sudden noise. I just took a drink from my water bottel and after I set it down, it made a crakling noise and yep, the electric shock like needles coming out of my body affect. AND the worse part is I am also taking xanex and still get the shocks. I just don't know anymore. Not working, Can't work, can't think, feeling desperate.
>
> Thanks for calling. Will you pls share the #.?
> Just a FYI, as I know it, it's the manufactures like Wyeth that starts the process. They test it and then they have their sales people push it on to the PDocs, give them samples, etc. They, along with the Distribution co's get together and pay for the advertising of the drug. The pharmacies get rebates ($$) from the dist. co's., for every prescription they fill, the pharmacies pay the dr's a percent for every prescription they write. Everyone makes money and they are very happy. Well, my blurred vision is getting worse, better stop while I'm ahead.
>
> Mercedes
>
> > I don't know who I am mad at anymore...or should I say most mad at...the manufacturer or the actual doc that prescribes it and doesn't fulfill his duties by monitoring you while you are on it??? Hmmmm! I did call Wyeth this morning and just as I figured, they couldn't give me any information. They said they don't know the exact mechanism that causes the electric shocks only that they assume it is the brain chemicles rebalancing themselves again. I asked specifically if there were reports of permanent damage from these and they told me no! Other than that I didn't learn anything knew and nothing enlightening. I hate not being able to get answers from people!
>
>
I started taking 10 mg of prozac to help me with the withdrawal symptoms and I no longer get the brain zaps. I am still on 75 mg of effexor, and because I have the flu, I will not wean until I feel better. Once in a while, I think I am going to get a brain zap, but it does not seem to happen. Hope this helps.
Lioness
Posted by loolot on October 8, 2003, at 9:26:17
In reply to Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by kcg33 on October 4, 2003, at 6:58:59
I hated effexor. Still having problems from the withdrawal , also.
That having been said, Im not sure lawsuits are the best way to go, simply because this drug is still helping a lot of people, and what if it was recalled and those people could no longer take it?
Thats how I feel about a lot of the dopaminergic ADs which have been recalled. Those drugs could have turned my life around.
I DO think we should try and force the makers of effexor to document the withdrawal and side effects in a more outright manner. They definitely are masking that stuff.
Posted by lioness on October 8, 2003, at 10:51:41
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by loolot on October 8, 2003, at 9:26:17
I agree with you, loolot. I know people who have had great success with effexor. I also know people who have taken it after chemotherapy to help eliminate some of the side effects from their treatment. Not everyone has the terrible withdrawal symptoms. I wish I had known before how difficult the weaning process COULD be. I am thankful to have found this board, as I no longer feel crazy from my symptoms.
Posted by Salty_Dog on October 8, 2003, at 11:52:22
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by loolot on October 8, 2003, at 9:26:17
I don't mean to be an a*&$#@, but the manufacture has specific indications for stopping Efexor-XR printed in the product information sheet found in the bottle. The Pharmacist is responsible for consuling the patient about the side-effects of both starting and stopping any medication they give the patient. Here it is in print:
Discontinuation of EFEXOR-XR: Discontinuation symptoms have been assessed both in patients with depression and in those with anxiety. Abrupt discontinuation, dose reduction, or tapering of venlafaxine at various doses has been found to be associated with the appearance of new symptoms, the frequency of which increased with increased dose level and with longer duration of treatment. Symptoms reported included agitation, anxiety, confusion, dry mouth, fatigue, paresthesias, vertigo, hypomania, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, headache, diarrhoea, sleep disturbance, insomnia, sweating and nervousness. Where such symptoms occurred, they were usually self-limiting, but in a few patients lasted for several weeks. Discontinuation effects are well known to occur with antidepressants. There is also a report of a withdrawal syndrome, confirmed by two challenges in a 32 year old woman who had received venlafaxine 300 mg daily for 8 months. It is therefore recommended that the dosage of EFEXOR-XR be tapered gradually and the patient monitored. The period required for discontinuation may depend on the dose, duration of therapy and the individual patient (See DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).
None of the Medical professionals seem to have the time or interest in thoroughly reading the manufactures info.
The Pharmacist who fills the prescription has been trained to consult patients on all aspects of the medications they dispense. They see more of the side-effects and deal with more prescriptions for any given product than any Dr.
I think you need to chose your Pharmacist very carefully and ask questions when a new prescription is filled.
Posted by BJL on October 8, 2003, at 11:59:57
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by Salty_Dog on October 8, 2003, at 11:52:22
I guess I'm still stuck on the fact that the lowest dose is 37.5 mg, and it really requires lower doses to avoid withdrawals. We shouldn't have to "break pills" to get lower doses. It should be provided. Every post that I have seen has people going off of Effexor 37.5. Some are on that dose for months, some weeks, and even some for just days before quitting. Pretty much all of these people have intense withdrawals. When is the manufacturer going to disburse smaller doses? I think it's essential!
Posted by Salty_Dog on October 8, 2003, at 12:30:20
In reply to Re: joining the withdrawal thread, posted by Sufferfromeffexor on October 7, 2003, at 9:17:57
I think a more tolerable method of withdrawl is to tapper down in 4-7 day steps (no more than a 75 mg reduction) and when you are confortable with stopping, spread out the time between doses from 24 hours to ~36 hours, ~48 hours and finally ~72 hours, making the changes when you feel confortable and be willing to step up again if it becomes too much. This method should give the brain time to adjust it's own production of neurotransmitters.
As I have read in past postings, many people are jumping off after tappering down and having bad side effects.Instead of putting blame on various Profesionals, the focus should be on what has worked for others. I keep reading postings where everyone is encouring some unfortunate sole to be "on the wagon" which could spell disaster.
In the old days when an Alcoholic needed to stop drinking, AA members (working in pairs - same sex) would 12 step the indivigual and would carry a pint of vodka to assist the indivigual in detoxing. One or two shots would be given when certain physical manifestions occured. Alcoholics can not be detoxed without close monitoring. Currently some patients have to be given valuim to stop seizures which could be fatal.
Currently, none of the Detox centers I know of will assist a person who is trying to stop Efexor, which is a crying shame. The Detox centers can not get money from the insurance carrier and the Detox centers are not always trained for AD withdrawl. I have come across a few which realy know how to help patients stop taking a wide range of drugs, but it still comes down to money.
Posted by lioness on October 8, 2003, at 12:45:26
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by BJL on October 8, 2003, at 11:59:57
You can get a 25 mg tablet of effexor. It is not extened release, but you can break them in smaller pieces as you taper off. That is what my doctor and I plan to do, as I need to titrate down VERY slowly.
Posted by djmmm on October 8, 2003, at 13:13:04
In reply to Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by kcg33 on October 4, 2003, at 6:58:59
> Working on this, as soon as I have the name of the firm and the number to give you, I will post it.
>
> BJL, Lioness and Mercedes, my thoughts EXACTLY. No energy, low metabolism, night sweats, MIGRAINES, sensitivity to the sun, visual problems, and no sex drive whatsoever. And this is just while TAKING the drug - and the horror quadruples when you try to get off of it! There will be Liberty and Justice for All in the end.
Unfortunately all of those side-effects are listed in Effexor's monograph, so (again unfortunately) a lawsuit based on side-effects published and provided by Wyeth Ayerst with the medication is unlikely to hold up in any court.
Posted by kcg33 on October 8, 2003, at 13:34:37
In reply to Re: Lawsuit Anyone?, posted by djmmm on October 8, 2003, at 13:13:04
You are probably right, although, I PERSONALLY did not receive any warnings, no cute little piece of paper with the prescription bottle, not even a sticky note on the bottle itself describing any effects whatsoever, however, as time-consuming as it would be to find enough people who feel the way I do about this situation, I would gladly just be happy to settle with getting off and away from this medication and feeling normal again.
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