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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 27 to 51 of 458. Go back in thread:
Posted by ChINA on August 28, 2003, at 18:38:42
In reply to Lamictal side effects, posted by seamus o'noolan on June 30, 2003, at 17:37:40
Hopefully someone can give me some valuable advise! I'm currently taking Moclobemide, 300mg. This antidepressant belongs to the group of reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase type A (RIMAs) which are a newer group of antidepressants that have had much less impact on clinical psychopharmacology than another contemporary class of medications, the selective serotonin reuptake-inhibitors (SSRIs). The RIMAs agents are distinguished from the older monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) by their selectivity and reversibility.
Anyhow, about 2 1/2 weeks ago I began taking Lamictal due to a recent hypermanic episode. I'm now taking 50mg lamictal which I've been on for the last 10 days (I began on 25mg). The first week was great. I still felt energetic without the usual manic-obsessive thoughts. Yet I became very sleepy in the afternoon and had to take a nap after returning home from work. However, since about a week ago (or less) I've had a sore throat and my eyes have been sort of dry. Last Sunday I discovered a "cyst" like thing on the left side of my neck. I became somewhat terrified. The next day I found out that it's (only) a swollen lymph node. My throat still felt sore and thick. It felt like I was coming down with a cold but at the same time not really. This week I've also had severe headaches. Lately I've also experienced vaginal problems (vaginitis?). Today the common rashes slowly began. Apparently, all of the above are symptoms of hyper sensitivity and uncommon side-effects (often not even listed). I've also been very sensitive to any BS (which is not necessarily a bad thing..) Should I discontinue or is there a possibility that these side-effects will disappear? I have no health insurance and am not able to see an MD unless I feel it's unbearable and need to go to the ER.I guess I'll decrease the dose to 25mg for the time being. I'm curious to know of any similar experiences or just your thoughts.
thanks !
Posted by Liligoth on August 28, 2003, at 21:29:35
In reply to Re: Pindolol, a thread, posted by HenryO on August 27, 2003, at 4:31:14
> I would love to hear how Pindolol works for other people. For me it takes the edge off, no wonder drug stuff just definitely better than horrible. I'd really like to hear from those who try it. Thanks.
hi, I take 2.5mg Pindolol 3 times per day as an augmentation to the rest of the AD's I take. The first couple of days it made me very nauseous but now I dont notice it at all. I am not sure it is doing anything but my current cocktail is working well so dont want to change it,
Posted by galkeepinon on August 30, 2003, at 2:17:37
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT, posted by ChINA on August 28, 2003, at 18:38:42
Hi, I have taken Lamictal and am currently on it. My thoughts are that you should get to the ER considering your circumstances, but more so, because the manufacturers of Lamictal state that if a patient any noticeable skin changes-seek medical attention at once.
Good luck and be safe:-)
>
> Hopefully someone can give me some valuable advise! I'm currently taking Moclobemide, 300mg. This antidepressant belongs to the group of reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase type A (RIMAs) which are a newer group of antidepressants that have had much less impact on clinical psychopharmacology than another contemporary class of medications, the selective serotonin reuptake-inhibitors (SSRIs). The RIMAs agents are distinguished from the older monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) by their selectivity and reversibility.
> Anyhow, about 2 1/2 weeks ago I began taking Lamictal due to a recent hypermanic episode. I'm now taking 50mg lamictal which I've been on for the last 10 days (I began on 25mg). The first week was great. I still felt energetic without the usual manic-obsessive thoughts. Yet I became very sleepy in the afternoon and had to take a nap after returning home from work. However, since about a week ago (or less) I've had a sore throat and my eyes have been sort of dry. Last Sunday I discovered a "cyst" like thing on the left side of my neck. I became somewhat terrified. The next day I found out that it's (only) a swollen lymph node. My throat still felt sore and thick. It felt like I was coming down with a cold but at the same time not really. This week I've also had severe headaches. Lately I've also experienced vaginal problems (vaginitis?). Today the common rashes slowly began. Apparently, all of the above are symptoms of hyper sensitivity and uncommon side-effects (often not even listed). I've also been very sensitive to any BS (which is not necessarily a bad thing..) Should I discontinue or is there a possibility that these side-effects will disappear? I have no health insurance and am not able to see an MD unless I feel it's unbearable and need to go to the ER.
>
> I guess I'll decrease the dose to 25mg for the time being. I'm curious to know of any similar experiences or just your thoughts.
>
> thanks !
Posted by BarbaraCat on August 31, 2003, at 12:45:07
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT » ChINA, posted by galkeepinon on August 30, 2003, at 2:17:37
I have to second Gals post. It's not only your outer skin that can have the blister, bumps and rashes. It's also your organs, which is how people really in danger on it. My unbearable itchies (I was beginning to feel them in my ear canals and vagina) went away when I lessened my dose. I hadn't ascribed the itchies to lamictal, was only on the lookout for a 'rash'. It can come in different disguises and should be taken very seriously. Even with this potential, I love my Lamictal. - Barbara
> Hi, I have taken Lamictal and am currently on it. My thoughts are that you should get to the ER considering your circumstances, but more so, because the manufacturers of Lamictal state that if a patient any noticeable skin changes-seek medical attention at once.
> Good luck and be safe:-)
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Hopefully someone can give me some valuable advise! I'm currently taking Moclobemide, 300mg. This antidepressant belongs to the group of reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase type A (RIMAs) which are a newer group of antidepressants that have had much less impact on clinical psychopharmacology than another contemporary class of medications, the selective serotonin reuptake-inhibitors (SSRIs). The RIMAs agents are distinguished from the older monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) by their selectivity and reversibility.
> > Anyhow, about 2 1/2 weeks ago I began taking Lamictal due to a recent hypermanic episode. I'm now taking 50mg lamictal which I've been on for the last 10 days (I began on 25mg). The first week was great. I still felt energetic without the usual manic-obsessive thoughts. Yet I became very sleepy in the afternoon and had to take a nap after returning home from work. However, since about a week ago (or less) I've had a sore throat and my eyes have been sort of dry. Last Sunday I discovered a "cyst" like thing on the left side of my neck. I became somewhat terrified. The next day I found out that it's (only) a swollen lymph node. My throat still felt sore and thick. It felt like I was coming down with a cold but at the same time not really. This week I've also had severe headaches. Lately I've also experienced vaginal problems (vaginitis?). Today the common rashes slowly began. Apparently, all of the above are symptoms of hyper sensitivity and uncommon side-effects (often not even listed). I've also been very sensitive to any BS (which is not necessarily a bad thing..) Should I discontinue or is there a possibility that these side-effects will disappear? I have no health insurance and am not able to see an MD unless I feel it's unbearable and need to go to the ER.
> >
> > I guess I'll decrease the dose to 25mg for the time being. I'm curious to know of any similar experiences or just your thoughts.
> >
> > thanks !
>
>
Posted by Pamela Ann on September 2, 2003, at 17:59:44
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT » galkeepinon, posted by BarbaraCat on August 31, 2003, at 12:45:07
Hi,
I wanted to share this experience. I am concerned for the people with a rash who are on lamictal. last week when i saw my pdoc he prescibed lamictal for me. He gave me this caution and was sure to make me repeat what he had just said.
He told me that in a small percentage of cases lamictal causes a Stevenson-Johnson syndrome. This begins as a viral like rash (like a child would get with strept or a virus). It will also resemble bug bites. The rash and/or the bug bites will come together into one large painful rash. This rash (SJ SYNDROME) causes layers of your skin to slough off. Treatment requires hospitalization and treatment by a burn center. And, DEATH is a possibility if your skin can not recover.
My pdoc made me repeat this..... "If i get a rash i will stop my lamictal and call your message service immediately"
Please do the same!
Love,
Pamela Ann> I have to second Gals post. It's not only your outer skin that can have the blister, bumps and rashes. It's also your organs, which is how people really in danger on it. My unbearable itchies (I was beginning to feel them in my ear canals and vagina) went away when I lessened my dose. I hadn't ascribed the itchies to lamictal, was only on the lookout for a 'rash'. It can come in different disguises and should be taken very seriously. Even with this potential, I love my Lamictal. - Barbara
>
> > Hi, I have taken Lamictal and am currently on it. My thoughts are that you should get to the ER considering your circumstances, but more so, because the manufacturers of Lamictal state that if a patient any noticeable skin changes-seek medical attention at once.
> > Good luck and be safe:-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hopefully someone can give me some valuable advise! I'm currently taking Moclobemide, 300mg. This antidepressant belongs to the group of reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase type A (RIMAs) which are a newer group of antidepressants that have had much less impact on clinical psychopharmacology than another contemporary class of medications, the selective serotonin reuptake-inhibitors (SSRIs). The RIMAs agents are distinguished from the older monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) by their selectivity and reversibility.
> > > Anyhow, about 2 1/2 weeks ago I began taking Lamictal due to a recent hypermanic episode. I'm now taking 50mg lamictal which I've been on for the last 10 days (I began on 25mg). The first week was great. I still felt energetic without the usual manic-obsessive thoughts. Yet I became very sleepy in the afternoon and had to take a nap after returning home from work. However, since about a week ago (or less) I've had a sore throat and my eyes have been sort of dry. Last Sunday I discovered a "cyst" like thing on the left side of my neck. I became somewhat terrified. The next day I found out that it's (only) a swollen lymph node. My throat still felt sore and thick. It felt like I was coming down with a cold but at the same time not really. This week I've also had severe headaches. Lately I've also experienced vaginal problems (vaginitis?). Today the common rashes slowly began. Apparently, all of the above are symptoms of hyper sensitivity and uncommon side-effects (often not even listed). I've also been very sensitive to any BS (which is not necessarily a bad thing..) Should I discontinue or is there a possibility that these side-effects will disappear? I have no health insurance and am not able to see an MD unless I feel it's unbearable and need to go to the ER.
> > >
> > > I guess I'll decrease the dose to 25mg for the time being. I'm curious to know of any similar experiences or just your thoughts.
> > >
> > > thanks !
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by HenryO on September 3, 2003, at 2:14:59
In reply to Re: Pindolol, a thread » HenryO, posted by Liligoth on August 28, 2003, at 21:29:35
Thanks, it seems like such an unknown drug. Maybe it only helps a tiny percentage of people. I only take it when I'm in a bad spot. But I never see anyone else ever mention it here.
Posted by Houston on September 24, 2003, at 16:50:58
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT » BarbaraCat, posted by Pamela Ann on September 2, 2003, at 17:59:44
I just began taking lamictal four weeks ago and will increase the dose to 100mg tomorrow. Only side effect I have noticed is weight gain of about 5 pounds. I seem to be hungry all of the time. I used to take Wellbutrin SR which didn't do much of anything for me. Effexor was a complete nightmare with hellish withdrawal. Anyone else notice weight gain?
Posted by Dalilah on September 25, 2003, at 2:27:35
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT, posted by Houston on September 24, 2003, at 16:50:58
Hey, Lamictal is finally starting to work nicely for me, but I had to go up to 250mg and I'm still working on the dose/going up. No, I did not have any weight gain.
Wellbutrin seemed like the worst thing in the world to me. I must be very allergic. I've kicked dope and felt better. Effexor only helped for so long and made me sweat and feel speedy. If you're bipolar like me, it seems the mood stabilizers work far better than the antidepressants.
I take Lithium with the Lamictal and this appears to be a winning combination. Fingers crossed. I haven't felt better in years. Serious.
-Dalilah
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 25, 2003, at 10:58:39
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT, posted by Dalilah on September 25, 2003, at 2:27:35
Yay, Dahlila!! Lam and Lithium have saved my life for sure. You seem like a textbook case for 'why bipolars can't take ADs'. I went the Wellbutrin and Effexor route as well when we thought I was unipolar and I had similar reactions. I felt like my eyes were bugging out all the time from Wellbutrin and Effexor made me crazy (as did Paxil) and then crazier when I was getting off them. The other SSRI's were disasters, except Zoloft which made me apathetic - a welcome change from mixed states - but ultimately stopped working altogether.
I'm on 125mg of Lam and would like to go up higher 'just to see' since I still get some breakthrough depression (but thank God not the mixed states kind). It's been difficult getting past this dose since I get an unbearable itch when I go higher. This is probably a good warning, but I still wonder. What was your experience going up to the 250mg mark? Some meds seem to change character as one goes higher in dose, as if additional chemicals get activated. Does Lam do this at higher doses? Have you noticed any increased energy/focus?
I'm so glad you're feeling better. I know how rough it's been for you. BTW, I kicked alcohol and other stuff (for the most part) as well and am happily amazed at how much better I feel. - BarbaraCat
> Hey, Lamictal is finally starting to work nicely for me, but I had to go up to 250mg and I'm still working on the dose/going up. No, I did not have any weight gain.
>
> Wellbutrin seemed like the worst thing in the world to me. I must be very allergic. I've kicked dope and felt better. Effexor only helped for so long and made me sweat and feel speedy. If you're bipolar like me, it seems the mood stabilizers work far better than the antidepressants.
>
> I take Lithium with the Lamictal and this appears to be a winning combination. Fingers crossed. I haven't felt better in years. Serious.
> -Dalilah
Posted by Dalilah on September 25, 2003, at 11:24:14
In reply to Way to go! » Dalilah, posted by BarbaraCat on September 25, 2003, at 10:58:39
Hey Barbara,
Yes, me too! Tried a lot of antidepressants and they were horrible for the most part. I've been keeping a mood chart for the first time and it's been incredibly helpful. I just found one online and printed it out.
I'm only on 600mg of Lithium so my level's on the low side. Don't know if this makes a difference but anymore gets me shakey and thirsty. 125mg of Lamictal barely helped me. I had to get to 200mg before I had any steadiness in mood and still lots of break through depression. But more recently 225 and 250 have been incredible. More energy, more focused but most importantly - a normal to elevated mood. Oh, it's just so great after what I've been through.
I had some itchiness at the lower doses, but after my body became aclimated I guess, I've had no itch. I always go up 25mg at a time. And at these higher levels I've had no itchies.
-Dalilah
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 25, 2003, at 12:49:24
In reply to Re: Way to go!, posted by Dalilah on September 25, 2003, at 11:24:14
I'm only on 600mg Lithiums as well with the same symptoms as you when I go up higher. I also have a long-standing low thyroid condition and since taking Lith it's gotten worse. Oh well, the things we do for mental health. But I've recently switched to natural thryoid and other supporting supplements so things should be improving.
You've inspired me to ramp up the Lam. I know I felt better when I was at a higher dose except for the dang itchies. I'll go with teensy steps and hope the side effects are short-lived. I felt like a dog with fleas. - Barbara
> Yes, me too! Tried a lot of antidepressants and they were horrible for the most part. I've been keeping a mood chart for the first time and it's been incredibly helpful. I just found one online and printed it out.
>
> I'm only on 600mg of Lithium so my level's on the low side. Don't know if this makes a difference but anymore gets me shakey and thirsty. 125mg of Lamictal barely helped me. I had to get to 200mg before I had any steadiness in mood and still lots of break through depression. But more recently 225 and 250 have been incredible. More energy, more focused but most importantly - a normal to elevated mood. Oh, it's just so great after what I've been through.
>
> I had some itchiness at the lower doses, but after my body became aclimated I guess, I've had no itch. I always go up 25mg at a time. And at these higher levels I've had no itchies.
>
> -Dalilah
Posted by fluffy on September 25, 2003, at 16:14:40
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT, posted by Dalilah on September 25, 2003, at 2:27:35
Hi Dalilah--
I don't remember gaining much weight on Lamictal. Maybe i gained 5 pounds or so, but I NEEDED to, as I had been morbidly depressed for 6 months. I DO remember having the munchies late at night when I first started it...you know--cramming cheetos in my mouth at 11:00 at night. It seemed to go away after awhile, though.
Good luck with Lamictal! It's a good med for many (but not all) BP peeps,
Katy (200mg Lamictal)
Posted by fluffy on September 25, 2003, at 16:18:40
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT, posted by fluffy on September 25, 2003, at 16:14:40
Barb-cat (or anyone!)
I'm on 200mg Lamictal which seemed to be working for about 6 months.
I'm so perplexed about my current situation. I'm feeling depressed again--somewhere between dysthymic and moderately depressed. People are noticing now, asking me "hey--what's wrong?" when I thought I was doing such a good acting job. Low to no appetite, NO motivation, avoiding people, etc. The Lithium was a disaster. I had all of my symptoms, with the addition of bruxism and NO MEMORY!!!
So here I am, wondering if maybe I should jump up on the Lamictal again to see if it will do the trick w/o the weird side-effects. OR...just tough it out until the seasons change. OR...add another mood stabilizer (Depakote, Zyprexa or Trileptal). OR...try to add Wellbutrin and risk a mixed state.
Sorry to ramble. I'm confused and depressed. Take care all,
Katy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 25, 2003, at 19:08:06
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide, posted by fluffy on September 25, 2003, at 16:18:54
So sorry you're feeling crummy, Katy. These ups and downs are so crappy. I sure wish there was a definitive test that could tell us what will work instead of the human dart board method.
I also am feeling kinda down, little energy, lack of focus and direction. I know if I put a little effort into exercising it would help and take off on it's own steam, but I just don't wanna. I feel too clunky and poopy to navigate the neighborhood. But I know it'll pass eventually - they always do and I come out and think, well, that really wasn't so terrible, it was just the dirty lens I was looking through. But even so, I'd rather be feeling better NOW. I guess that's the allure of alcohol and drugs.
It sounds like you're not taking lithium any more? I personally think that Lam on it's own isn't enough to handle bipolar depression and you're going to need something else, whatever that may be. But who knows how it is at higher doses? I'm just at 125mg and I've talked with others on this board who say that it really took off at 250mg.
I have no experience with trileptal, but I just communicated with someone on this board, perhaps this thread even, who mentioned she was on 500mg lamictal and trileptal, and loved it, and needed that much Lam. I'm going to research trileptal and if it looks tolerable I'll talk to my pdoc about it. I'm concerned about lithium's effects on my thyroid and it sounds like you had other bad effects from it. Although it's been a good drug for me, I feel like I need a change of scenery in the med department.
I can't say one way or the other about Lam and Wellbutrin. I was taking Wellbutrin and Zoloft for a while and felt terribly speedy and unstable on it. I just felt wired and still depressed. This was before my bipolar dx so it wasn't a good combo for me without a mood stabilizer. But who knows how Wellbutrin would be with Lam? It's not an SSRI so it might be worth a try, especially if you're feeling like you're dragging.
Another thought: you're sure you're bipolar? When is the last time you had a manic/hypomanic swing? Could your manic episodes have been something else? I remember you were on Zoloft for awhile and had pretty good luck with it? If you're actually unipolar depressed, then perhaps an AD along with Lam or another mood-stabilizer would be the way to go.
Have you ever taken one of the antipsychotics like seroquel, zyprexa, risperdal? Sometimes these act like a mood stabilizer and help where other's don't, but have other side effects, mainly weight gain. I was on Zyprexa for awhile when I was going through the worst of my pre-bipolar dx depressions. This was along with Zoloft. It didn't do a thing for me, but others have good things to say about it.
I was greatly helped this past winter after my Mom died by adding Nortriptyline for 3 months. I didn't like the dry mouth and I developed tremors (these diminished somewhat eventually) which is why I quit but it pretty much saved my life. Sometimes TCA's will work when all else fails in a severe depression. I've read many posts here from people who recommend Nortrip very highly and I agree.
And finally - have you ever tried an opiate like hydrocodone(Vicodin) and felt better immediately? I've gotten on some threads here where there's an effort going on to convince the psychiatric folks that opiates are a potent and quick acting antidepressant and probably better than anything on the market currently. I've been helped alot by taking a Vicodin when I just couldn't stand it anymore but felt I was resorting to junkie-dom. It turns out there's very good reason why it relieves mental anguish - pain is pain, after all. There are new ways of dealing with the tolerance and addiction problems as well. The only major drawback I can see is the dang constipation thing. Ah, so many choices. Let me know what comes out of this - keep in touch, girlfriend. - Barbara
Posted by katia on September 26, 2003, at 0:18:11
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide, posted by fluffy on September 25, 2003, at 16:18:40
Katy,
Sorry to hear Lithium didn't work. If I were you and you really think you're BP, I'd definitely try Depakote or Trileptal. Depakote's working for me somewhat, but I'm just overly paranoid about the PCOS thing and I don't need to gain weight. I've already gained 10lbs this year due to ADs. I've gone up a size in pants. and altho' Dep. has not made me gain more than two or three pounds, I actually want to lose. But it's really more about the PCOS scare.
It sounds like if you gained a bit of weight it wouldn't be a problem.
You're already on the Lamictal, so to add another MS now might be a good thing. I'd talk to your doctor about it.
hugs,
Katia
Posted by ginger C on September 26, 2003, at 9:51:35
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects - URGENT, posted by fluffy on September 25, 2003, at 16:14:40
I have been on Lamictal along with Lithobid for about three years and have had no problem with it other than it has not done as well in controlling the mood swings as I had hoped
Posted by fluffy on September 26, 2003, at 10:51:20
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide » fluffy, posted by BarbaraCat on September 25, 2003, at 19:08:06
Hi Barb-cat!
***Here we are again! Sorry to the others who's thread we've descended upon...hopefully this is interesting info. How was your vacation? I'm going to answer your questions one by one to clarify to you and myself what my thoughts are....
> So sorry you're feeling crummy, Katy. These ups and downs are so crappy. I sure wish there was a definitive test that could tell us what will work instead of the human dart board method.
***Yes--it is crummy. I was lamenting to my bipolar friend last night about the med trial thing. I said that it feels like we're being offered 5 black pools to jump in, but one or both of them could save you--or they could swallow you whole!--but you won't know until you jump in.
>
> I also am feeling kinda down, little energy, lack of focus and direction. I know if I put a little effort into exercising it would help and take off on it's own steam, but I just don't wanna. I feel too clunky and poopy to navigate the neighborhood. But I know it'll pass eventually - they always do and I come out and think, well, that really wasn't so terrible, it was just the dirty lens I was looking through. But even so, I'd rather be feeling better NOW.***Oh--I know!! I've been dragging myself out of bed in the mornings...I can barely get myself through my yoga. But I always feel better after. Sorry you are feeling low, too. POO POO!!
>
> It sounds like you're not taking lithium any more? I personally think that Lam on it's own isn't enough to handle bipolar depression and you're going to need something else, whatever that may be. But who knows how it is at higher doses? I'm just at 125mg and I've talked with others on this board who say that it really took off at 250mg.
***Nope--no more Li. It just wasn't worth it. I felt like I was 80 yrs. old and confused as hell!! Yeah--actually it occurred to me that maybe just a little bump in the Lam dose would do the trick. So if an addition of a mood stabilizer doesn't work, then maybe another bump up on the Lam.> I have no experience with trileptal, but I just communicated with someone on this board, perhaps this thread even, who mentioned she was on 500mg lamictal and trileptal, and loved it, and needed that much Lam. I'm going to research trileptal and if it looks tolerable I'll talk to my pdoc about it. I'm concerned about lithium's effects on my thyroid and it sounds like you had other bad effects from it. Although it's been a good drug for me, I feel like I need a change of scenery in the med department.
***My decision tree is this: Try the trileptal with Lam. If it don't work, then try Depakote with Lam. If it don't work, but helps my sleep but makes me feel sluggish, then I'll kick the benzo and try an AD or up the Lam. Last resort is the AP's I think.
***It's tough, eh?? You'll never know unless you try...but I hate all that stuff about switching drugs and then coming back to them--"they won't work as well as they did before". As if we needed any more bad news!! But if you switch, I really hope it works better for you. Let us know what and if any changes happen.
> I can't say one way or the other about Lam and Wellbutrin. I was taking Wellbutrin and Zoloft for a while and felt terribly speedy and unstable on it. I just felt wired and still depressed. This was before my bipolar dx so it wasn't a good combo for me without a mood stabilizer. But who knows how Wellbutrin would be with Lam? It's not an SSRI so it might be worth a try, especially if you're feeling like you're dragging. Another thought: you're sure you're bipolar? When is the last time you had a manic/hypomanic swing? Could your manic episodes have been something else? I remember you were on Zoloft for awhile and had pretty good luck with it? If you're actually unipolar depressed, then perhaps an AD along with Lam or another mood-stabilizer would be the way to go.
***Actually, the Zoloft didn't do a damned thing. It was shortly after a mixed state on Lexapro that I was put on the zoloft instead. My doc was convinced that I was unipolar. When I stopped the Zoloft, I felt much better. Too many drugs tap-dancing on my serotonin receptors!! Not good! Then I just had about 4 more months of a bad, but not suicidal depression. THEN I got the bipolar diagnosis.
**I haven't had a CLEAR CUT, long lasting hypomanic episode in awhile. But I definitely had one before my last depressive episode last summer. Couldn't sleep a wink, in love with 3 guys at a time, arguing with people, etc.... Since the SSRI business, I seem to be rapid cycling, and I have a day or two days of hypomania..racing thoughts and irritability, no sleep. Then I have mini depressive episodes for a couple of days. If I'm lucky, then I'll have a normal day or two.
>
> Have you ever taken one of the antipsychotics like seroquel, zyprexa, risperdal? Sometimes these act like a mood stabilizer and help where other's don't, but have other side effects, mainly weight gain. I was on Zyprexa for awhile when I was going through the worst of my pre-bipolar dx depressions. This was along with Zoloft. It didn't do a thing for me, but others have good things to say about it.***Hmmm. No--haven't tried the AP's yet. I guess if I get into some deep doo-doo it would be worth a trial.
>
> I was greatly helped this past winter after my Mom died by adding Nortriptyline for 3 months. I didn't like the dry mouth and I developed tremors (these diminished somewhat eventually) which is why I quit but it pretty much saved my life. Sometimes TCA's will work when all else fails in a severe depression. I've read many posts here from people who recommend Nortrip very highly and I agree.***No TCA's yet either. Haven't had a major depressive episode since Lamictal...just rapid cycling, like cyclothymia stuff.
>
> And finally - have you ever tried an opiate like hydrocodone(Vicodin) and felt better immediately? I've gotten on some threads here where there's an effort going on to convince the psychiatric folks that opiates are a potent and quick acting antidepressant and probably better than anything on the market currently. I've been helped alot by taking a Vicodin when I just couldn't stand it anymore but felt I was resorting to junkie-dom. It turns out there's very good reason why it relieves mental anguish - pain is pain, after all. There are new ways of dealing with the tolerance and addiction problems as well. The only major drawback I can see is the dang constipation thing. Ah, so many choices.***I can't say I'm ready for the opiates yet. I do have some vicodin in my cubby from when I had a kidney stone. Nope, not yet.
Let me know what comes out of this - keep in touch, girlfriend. - Barbara
***But of course, Barb-cat!! You as well.
Lovins,
Katy
Posted by fluffy on September 26, 2003, at 11:04:17
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide » fluffy, posted by katia on September 26, 2003, at 0:18:11
Hi Katia--
It's good to see you and Barb-cat's names again. I needed some time away from PB to try and just concentrate on how I was feeling.
Katia--I'm very, very glad that Depakote is working. Count yourself lucky--really!! I asked before, but maybe you didn't know yet. But is PCOS reversable? Because if it is, then you could just get tested (probed) every so often and rest your mind. If it does appear to be showing up, then you could try another mood stabilizer.
It really sucks, but all bipolar drugs carry some long term risks--liver damage, thyroid damage, weight gain. As to the weight gain thing...this may seem patronizing...but do you have an exercise regimine in place? It seems to help my mood. And for you, it may keep the extra few pounds off. From what I've heard, there's actually a weight gain "threshold" with Dep. For example, if you rapidly start to gain weight, then you could drop down a dose and see if it is still a problem. But for now, a few pounds may be worth some stability! I've developed some pretty nasty acne on Lamictal. I don't like it. Doesn't make me feel very attractive--can't wear my fave tops anymore. But for the sake of a better mood, I just live with it.
Again--so glad you are feeling better!! YAY KATIA!!!
Hugs to you too!
Katy
Posted by katia on September 26, 2003, at 14:49:02
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide, posted by fluffy on September 26, 2003, at 11:04:17
Hi Katy,
I think what best could describe my mood is what you said - cyclothymia (sp?). And it's a step up from where I was. So something is happening, but the sluggishness is not good.
I walk, hike, and do yoga. And I wait tables 2-3x per week (with stairs). So it's not that. I even went to a metabolic nutritionist a few weeks back and got on a diet for my "type" and most people lose a lot of weight, i've remained.And no, the PCOS is not reversible. And as I said before, I've been too wounded with pregnancies not working out in the past due to various reasons -mainly now in retrospect due to me being a basket case (remember the term). Now I realize what was fueling that - bipolar.
anyway, I really want kids, it's not something I want to play around with when there are other options. AND b/c of the other s/e I"m having AND b/c it's not totally doing the trick. I think the Lam. could help - I"m only at 10mg now.
The way my pdoc is doing things, I won't (hopefully) be w/o any m/s at any time; to hopefully transition easily. He's doing it slowly too.
But we'll see. What has dawned on me is that I'm much better than I was a year ago, even six months ago and that's good news.
I'm also reading "Bipolar Survival Guide", the one you were reading; and everything is so intertwined and multi-layered. There's so much about my lifestyle that I can do to improve the mood, i.e. less drinking, regular sleep. I either sleep too much or too little. And I'm going to join a support group in the area for BP. The other thing I've noticed is that when I feel good, I look around at all the voids and it feels lonely and so I get sad. Is that depression or is that me just naturally grieving? Stuff like this to be aware of. And then I start to fill the voids by ,i.e. joining a belly dance troupe! and so forth and then it gets tooooo full and then I crash b/c of the stress....etc. I need moderation.
anyway,
I'm working it from all angles.
I really recommend that you try either Tri. or Depakote. You sound BP; and you sound more like a rapid cycler, in which case I've heard the anti-convulsants are better instead of Lithium. And you haven't tried any of them yet (minus Lam). So don't give up! you still have a lot of options.
good to hear from you again too. I also needed a psychobabble break. I think we all did.
Katia
Posted by fluffy on September 26, 2003, at 15:14:14
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide, posted by katia on September 26, 2003, at 14:49:02
Thanks so much Katia--
Let's see...Yeah--I can see why you wouldn't want to risk the PCOS if you want kiddos some day. I, on the other hand DON'T want them--not anytime soon...so I would consider Depakote as an option. I'm feeling encouraged to try another anti-convulsant as you and others have suggested. I really need to take care of the speedy, sleep deprived side of this crap w/o a benzo.
Supposedly, Trileptal has a relatively low side effect profile. I think that's what I'm reaching for first.
And you know, I think ALL of us BP's can relate to the hurry up and wait business. When I feel good, I'm like--ok--gotta get the stuff done I couln't do before. Then I do too much and fall flat on my face and can't even do the dishes. DITTO!
You really seem better Katia. I can't hear your voice, but I can sense a bit more optomism in your posts. It's great. I'm feeling determined to beat this thing. I know you are too. *sniffle*
take lots of care,
Katy
Posted by katia on September 26, 2003, at 15:46:33
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide, posted by fluffy on September 26, 2003, at 15:14:14
Yes, I do feel a bit better, esp. after upping the Lam. to 10mg two days ago. I'm getting that inspired, I can function feeling.
anyway, I had a bit of a crash just before upping the Lam. But I'm up and running again. I get tired easily tho' that's the bad bit.
If you are having trouble sleeping, depakote may be for you, but then again Tri. could be good too.
take good care,
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 0:36:28
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide, posted by fluffy on September 26, 2003, at 10:51:20
Hi Katy,
Well, I'm feeling better today. It's like the weather - wait and it'll change. Saw Pirates of the Caribbean and it was great. Talk about two different guys - Jack Sparrow and Will Turner. But I'm in love with them both! Guess that's why they call me bipolar.I like your decision tree idea. So, you've decided to go on tri for sure? You will be our official test pilot. I'm going to stay on lithium and ask for time release. I feel better today and hence feel better about my drugs, but I will be increasing lam slowly up to around 200mg. From all accounts, it seems like the magic number and from that point on doesn't cause the activation, so I hear. I'm also hoping that I'll eventually feel like dragging my butt around the block or something because THAT is the best antidepressant going. I think that's the whole idea for me behind taking these meds - getting to a place where I can start moving my stuck energy again.
You know, what you're describing about your bipolar starting only after taking SSRI's, if that's what I read correctly, sounds like Bipolar-III or BP-IV. I'm not too familiar with the treatment details since I'm most definitely BP-I,II (or am I?) but I recall that the treatment is somewhat different. So perhaps that's why lithium didn't work for you since it's more a BP-1,II thing. Of course, with all the esoteric stuff we're all taking and all disorders overlapping into the other, who knows what anymore. Don't remember if I asked this, but have you tried mongo doses of fish oil, as in liquid? I do think it's helping me. Makes the cell membranes more fluid.
My vacation was so-so. My husband had hernia surgery and it was too soon, so we came back early. Then we went to a wonderful place on the ocean which was great until another couple joined us. My husband and the guy are friends, but I've always had a problem with the woman. A whiny victim/martyr bitch who complains about everything, is clearly mood challenged and refuses to get help, choosing to blame everyone else constantly, as in all the friggin' time. I felt like a toxic waste dump site. Wore me down and trashed my good mood until I finally said 'Look, you've had these exact same problems ever since I've known you and I can't listen to it anymore. It's time to shit or get off the pot. Get a divorce, quit your job, tell your abusive ungrateful jerky kids to leave you alone, put up or shut up, but above all - GET HELP!!'. Well, you can imagine what a lovely time we all had after that. They left early and hub and I enjoyed the rest of our time at the ocean.
I'll probably arrange to meet with her to talk about this more civally and maybe she'll be open to my observations that she really is hurting and in need of more help than her acquaintances can provide. I sure hope so for her sake, but at least I probably won't have to see her much anymore - yay!
You know, we're all dealing with alot of stuff and we all have some days worse than others and moan more sometimes, but jeez, you've at least got to try! Here among my friends on this board, we've all been through hell, but we're at least trying the best we can to do the work, get help, pay for the office visits and meds, come up for air time and time again. Even though we have real bad times of paralysis and rage and stupidity, and even though we sometimes just want to roll over and give up - we don't, and it's damned hard work but we keep on fighting for our lives - and that's what I love about us. It's that 'I don't need help - it's all their fault so why should I do anything' whining victim crap that makes me see red. People who aren't willing to do the work and yet think it's OK to use everyone around them as trash recepticles - cowards! Hrmmph! I better stop now and think about something nice before I start acting as detestible. In fact, the swing I just experienced from the beginning of this post to now makes me wonder if I have cyclothymia!
So, how was your show? Haven't heard about the outcome of it. You were feeling a little rocky beforehand. Did you manage to maintain your equanimity? There, I feel better. Hasta - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 0:58:04
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide » fluffy, posted by katia on September 26, 2003, at 15:46:33
Hi Katia,
First and most importantly, you joined a belly dance troupe? That's superb! I belly dance as well, have for years, and it's absolutely wonderful. Of course, I slug off for months at a time, but it's always so wonderful every time I get off my butt and do it. I do primarily tribal fusion.You do sound a lot more up, really and truly. You might find that Lam will have it's zippy spikes and then subside so don't get concerned if it poops out. It's just adjusting. I was able to stay at 25mg for a few months and then 50mg for over 6 months. If I hadn't run into some major stress hurdles I might have been able to hold steady there for longer, so you never know.
I'm going to stick with lithium, even tho I said I was wanting a change of scenery to Katy. Today is a good day and I think it's because I upped the Lam a tad, just 12.5mg. Some day I'm going to try to slowly reduce lithium, mainly because of the thyroid thing. I don't have any other s/x I'm aware of. I'm hoping with all the other naturopathic stuff I'm doing I'll be able to wean myself way down on the meds. Wouldn't that be nice! Less expensive too!
I am going to check out the mdiet website. As I think I mentioned before, I've the Metabolic Type Diet book and it made sense from what I could discern. It also jibes with my profile in the Blood Type Diet which I'm currently trying out.
I've really had it with my weight and lack of exercise level. I'm about 30 pounds overweight and not working out at all. My back has been hurting so I've been taking the opportunity to veg out and I really can't afford that kind of luxury anymore. My mood has lifted to the point where I can 'just do it' and I know that if I make myself 'just do it' a few times, things take off from there. I don't think I'm going to go with trileptal since I'm not willing to risk worse s/x than I have with lithium. The Devil you know...
Well, I hope things continue on their upward trend for you. One good thing about feeling so crappy is when you start to feel even a little bit better, it feels sooooo goooooood!! - Barbara
Posted by katia on September 27, 2003, at 2:53:56
In reply to All helping each other decide » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 0:58:04
> Hi Katia,
> First and most importantly, you joined a belly dance troupe? That's superb!
yay! yes I did. i got so caught up in the frenzy, I stayed for the beginner, intermediate, and advanced and the instructor said I did well and should join the troupe. So of course I bought the $65 skirt and signed up for a month's worth of classes with/o knowing if I even like her!
I had fun and it's sooooooo right up my alley that this is what i need right now, not chi-kung. really I get enough internal arts with yoga. I need an expressive sensual dance now. I need expression and an outlet! first and foremost!good to hear you do too. I knew it before from your previous posts. I used to a bit, but now I'm getting seriously into it. primal tribal fusion? I think this type is from northern Egypt? I'll let you know more when I do!
> You do sound a lot more up, really and truly. You might find that Lam will have it's zippy spikes and then subside so don't get concerned if it poops out.
I've found both these things so far.
>>It's just adjusting.
So the ups and downs will subside and I'll even out to a healthy plateau?>>I am going to check out the mdiet website. As I think I mentioned before, I've the Metabolic Type Diet book and it made sense from what I could discern. It also jibes with my profile in the Blood Type Diet which I'm currently trying out.
yes, check it out. I think there's mention of the blood type diet as being ineffective in that particular website : www.bloodph.com
It could be the diet. Altho' I haven't kept to as I should've . Two weeks ago due to that stressful hurtful event, I fell off the one drink only and more than one night I've partook in one to three drinks. and tonight I had bread with wheat in it. (and two and half glasses of vino - shhhh.)
I was perfect for two weeks and I'm still trying.> I've really had it with my weight and lack of exercise level. I'm about 30 pounds overweight and not working out at all. My back has been hurting so I've been taking the opportunity to veg out and I really can't afford that kind of luxury anymore. My mood has lifted to the point where I can 'just do it' and I know that if I make myself 'just do it' a few times, things take off from there. I don't think I'm going to go with trileptal since I'm not willing to risk worse s/x than I have with lithium. The Devil you know...
>
good. I was wondering why you wanted to radically change and get off of Li. when you'd been having such a good experience with it. Maybe just minor adjustments are needed.> Well, I hope things continue on their upward trend for you. One good thing about feeling so crappy is when you start to feel even a little bit better, it feels sooooo goooooood!! - Barbara
I agree!!!!!!
There was one more thing I wanted to say and i can't remember b/c it was in your other post to Katy, so I'll address it in the next one.
warmest wishes,
Katia
Posted by katia on September 27, 2003, at 3:09:20
In reply to Re: Barb-cat...or anyone who can help me decide » fluffy, posted by BarbaraCat on September 27, 2003, at 0:36:28
I remember now.
What you wrote in the previous post to Katy:
>>You know, we're all dealing with alot of stuff and we all have some days worse than others and moan more sometimes, but jeez, you've at least got to try! Here among my friends on this board, we've all been through hell, but we're at least trying the best we can to do the work, get help, pay for the office visits and meds, come up for air time and time again. Even though we have real bad times of paralysis and rage and stupidity, and even though we sometimes just want to roll over and give up - we don't, and it's damned hard work but we keep on fighting for our lives - and that's what I love about us.
here here to that.
I was in conversation with a friend a day or two ago. She doesn't suffer from depression and was coming to these "revelations" (for a non-depressed person). she was saying stuff like "we didn't choose to come into this world, but yet we find ourselves here and have to deal with it and suffer and whatever....."
(an aside here) it's always interesting to see people who don't live constantly in a state of despair and existential angst finally start to question these things in a normal frame of mind.But the conversation continued on, it is trully amazing what we will do to survive. And for what? What drives us to survive? In existential terms, we're born, we suffer, we die. get used to it.
But what keeps us from committing suicide upon our birth?
What keeps us from it in the midst of (as we on this board know too well) severe depression? What is behind the notion of hope?I think it's something stronger than we can cognitively imagine. It's life force.
There are birds from the Arctic that fly all the way to the Southern hemisphere and endure the most wretched suffering anguished lives simply to find a moment's worth of food to subsist just long enough to do it again. What drives them to endure? When they could just roll over and give up to the angel's above?
What force drives us? It's beyond cognition. it's somehow instinct.
It's beautiful. It's life living and surviving in one way or another.
one arctic bird here signing off.
Katia
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