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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by McPac on April 13, 2003, at 13:11:19
In reply to magnesium glycinate, posted by disney4 on April 13, 2003, at 2:58:39
Mag. glycinate is NOT activating at all. In fact, it might relax you, if anything.
Posted by JLx on April 13, 2003, at 18:19:05
In reply to magnesium glycinate, posted by disney4 on April 13, 2003, at 2:58:39
Oops, didn't mean to check the "no message" box in that previous post.
I experimented with magnesium citrate last week and find the magnesium glycinate more effective for stress. (I was taking plenty of mg citrate to compensate for its lesser absorption too.)
It's been 7 weeks now on my whole new regimen of magnesium, other supplements and dietary changes and I still feel great. Except for a little matter of not having a job or other income....;)
Posted by johnj on April 13, 2003, at 19:16:18
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate, posted by JLx on April 13, 2003, at 18:19:05
Hi JLx:
That is great everything is holding for you and you feel good. I cut back my Mg and my sleep has gotten better. I did find some information on the web that Mg can cause sleep problems in some people, especially if taken after five. I went back to 100 mg and now am back at 200 mg. I will see how this holds. My energy level was terrible during the week. I have not experienced such feelings for quite some time. I think when I started feeling better I made the mistake of jumping up to a higher dose. I am so med sensitive that maybe I am supplement sensitive too. Anyway, I found some information that was accurate to how I was reacting. The only quandry is why did I feel good for 9 or so days? I think I did overdo it physically and then an increased supplementation was not the right thing. I have started using some apple cider vinegar right after I do anything physical and also in the mornings. Again, I need to go slow and Larry was so right in that I need to not get in a rush. One thing I do know is that those days were very good ones and it shows me where I would like to get again. Thank you for all your links. I will read them this week if I have the energy. There wasn't any point of reading much for the last 10 days or so since I couldn't retain any of it. I am going to try the magnesium glycinate and see how I do. A little at a time. This site has been a godsend and everybody so informative and helpful. Thank you and keep us informed.
johnj
Posted by fuji on April 14, 2003, at 6:58:05
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate » JLx, posted by johnj on April 13, 2003, at 19:16:18
So I am not the only one with sleep problems on the mg. I didn't take any for one day and slept straight through that night. Started it again and had another one of those up every few hours type of sleep. I think I will drop back to 200mg and see how that goes. It's strange because I can always go to sleep and stay asleep but the mg is definitely impacting my sleep. I want to feel motivated during the day and nothing seems to help that!!
Thanks.> Hi JLx:
>
> That is great everything is holding for you and you feel good. I cut back my Mg and my sleep has gotten better. I did find some information on the web that Mg can cause sleep problems in some people, especially if taken after five. I went back to 100 mg and now am back at 200 mg. I will see how this holds. My energy level was terrible during the week. I have not experienced such feelings for quite some time. I think when I started feeling better I made the mistake of jumping up to a higher dose. I am so med sensitive that maybe I am supplement sensitive too. Anyway, I found some information that was accurate to how I was reacting. The only quandry is why did I feel good for 9 or so days? I think I did overdo it physically and then an increased supplementation was not the right thing. I have started using some apple cider vinegar right after I do anything physical and also in the mornings. Again, I need to go slow and Larry was so right in that I need to not get in a rush. One thing I do know is that those days were very good ones and it shows me where I would like to get again. Thank you for all your links. I will read them this week if I have the energy. There wasn't any point of reading much for the last 10 days or so since I couldn't retain any of it. I am going to try the magnesium glycinate and see how I do. A little at a time. This site has been a godsend and everybody so informative and helpful. Thank you and keep us informed.
> johnj
Posted by johnj on April 14, 2003, at 8:53:59
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate, posted by fuji on April 14, 2003, at 6:58:05
Fuji:
Did you start having sleep problems with Mg right away? I was great for about 10 days and then things changed. I had great sleep at first and then started having problems. I read that it may be best to take it earlier in the day as I took it all in the evening. I took 100 mg at 3:30 and then another 100 mg at 5:00 pm yesterday and things seemed to work well. I like the anti-anxiety effect it gives me and it affects my sleep somehow, but the info I read said it can cause insomnia. However, this is not what most people experience. I had the same type of problem with fish oil. I think I just need lower doses. I will continue to take 100 to 200 a day. Each of us is different so see if you can get a dose that helps. Good luck
johnj
let us know how it works.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 14, 2003, at 9:33:26
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate, posted by fuji on April 14, 2003, at 6:58:05
> So I am not the only one with sleep problems on the mg. I didn't take any for one day and slept straight through that night. Started it again and had another one of those up every few hours type of sleep. I think I will drop back to 200mg and see how that goes. It's strange because I can always go to sleep and stay asleep but the mg is definitely impacting my sleep. I want to feel motivated during the day and nothing seems to help that!!
Has anybody with these sleep problems contacted the guy who runs that magnesium website? It seems like an appropriate thing to do, as I expect he's encountered it before.
Lar
Posted by johnj on April 14, 2003, at 13:30:37
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate » fuji, posted by Larry Hoover on April 14, 2003, at 9:33:26
Good suggestion, I will do that this evening. I don't think Mg can build up can it? I didn't think i was cumulative like NADH, I thought the body excreted what it didn't use? Maybe I excrete it slower? Who knows.
The other possibility for me is that it might make my benzo dose somehow stronger or add to the effect. I found when I lowered my dose the fatigue seemed to abate some. Don't know if this means anything, but if I can get somewhat stable after a month or so I might try to lower my benzo and see what happens or lower it while increasing Mg. Just have to be patient and try things I guess like you suggested and not get into such a hurry. Thanks. take care
Johnj
Posted by JLx on April 14, 2003, at 14:23:10
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on April 14, 2003, at 13:30:37
Hi, John J.
I hope you can get this to work for you long term as it did temporarily.
I suggest that you check out what Eby has on his site about sleep. He has a link to his section "High quality sleep" right under the main title now, or click here: http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html#sleep
I follow all of his dietary advice (no caffeine, no sugar, no high glycemic foods, no aspartame, etc.), including taking 3 mg of melatonin and 50 mg of 5-HTP at night, plus 200 mg magnesium glycinate or a Epsom Salt bath. AND I also take about 1 gram of glycine at night. I have chronic back pain and also have a lot of tension in my back and I read that glycine is especially good to relax the spinal area. (Per "Depression Free Naturally" by Joan Mathews Larson.) I take 1300 mg of Evening Primrose oil with that, and usually a small piece of fruit such as apple. I figure it all helps with absorption. So far, it's been foolproof in getting me to sleep no matter how wound up I feel or how much my mind is worrying my financial situation.
I've also been so diligently avoiding calcium in my diet that now that some weeks have elapsed, I am adding back some by drinking spring water half the time, especially in the evening, with a 3:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium. It's supposed to be very absorbable that way, it's not much calcium overall and I figured I needed it because I was getting little cramps in my feet at night.
"Fiji" brand water has an almost equal amount of magnesium to calcium, btw. According to their bottle anyway. It also has silica and other minerals.
When I was taking Prozac and could never sleep, I started taking GABA before bed and that helped. I'm not sure of the chemistry there, I had just read about it in a book I have on amino acids and tried it. I mentioned it to my psychiatrist then, and she said it "made sense" that it would work and was going to recommend it to her other patients.
Posted by syringachalet on April 14, 2003, at 21:59:21
In reply to Re: 3 tsp-to-tablespoon , posted by McPac on April 12, 2003, at 23:28:28
If you are ever truly concerned, they have those measuring medication spoons at the drug counter that people use to measure out medication for infants and small children.
( Most MDs these days prescribe children and elderly peoples medications according to kilogram body weight and not age. Not all five year olds are 60 pounds..if you get my drift.)Just a friendly FYI.
syringachalet
Posted by fuji on April 15, 2003, at 18:42:58
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on April 14, 2003, at 13:30:37
I will start back tomorrow on 200mg and see how that goes and will report back.
fuji
Posted by Jaynee on April 16, 2003, at 15:09:59
In reply to Re: magnesium glycinate, posted by fuji on April 15, 2003, at 18:42:58
I was wondering if magnesium gluconate will work? I have taken it before and it did help me relax some what. Going to try again. The reason I bought the gluconate, is because it comes in liquid form, because I hate swallowing those horse size mag pills.
Posted by JLx on April 17, 2003, at 7:01:00
In reply to I bought magnesium gluconate, is it any good?, posted by Jaynee on April 16, 2003, at 15:09:59
> I was wondering if magnesium gluconate will work? I have taken it before and it did help me relax some what. Going to try again. The reason I bought the gluconate, is because it comes in liquid form, because I hate swallowing those horse size mag pills.
I don't know anything about that form. Let us know how it works.
Posted by SLS on April 22, 2003, at 11:55:44
In reply to Re: I bought magnesium gluconate, is it any good? » Jaynee, posted by JLx on April 17, 2003, at 7:01:00
> > I was wondering if magnesium gluconate will work?
> I don't know anything about that form. Let us know how it works.
I started taking 400mg magnesium glycinate a few days ago. I have been taking it in the morning. It seems that I have been sleepy all day long. Is this normal? Is this something that only happens with the glycinate?Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 1:13:28
In reply to Re: I bought magnesium gluconate, is it any good? » JLx, posted by SLS on April 22, 2003, at 11:55:44
> I started taking 400mg magnesium glycinate a few days ago. I have been taking it in the morning. It seems that I have been sleepy all day long. Is this normal? Is this something that only happens with the glycinate?
Hi Scott,Mg does the same thing to me. Therefore, I take it at bedtime (or about 30 minutes before) then it serves a duel function. First, it is a great sleep aid and, second, I'm convinced that it facilitates improved brain functioning. Ramp up to about 1000 mg/day. Lower the dose temporarily if you get diarrhea and then try the higher dose again by ramping up more slowly. IMO, Mg is worthwhile.
Hey, a couple months ago you suggested that I consider adding a little SAM-e to my Enada NADH. Well I tried something very similar to your suggestion and it is working out quite well so far. Thanks for the suggestion! I will probably post something on this later, but the bottom line is that I added a daily dose of the methyl donor TMG and, so far, the results are good. Larry Hoover takes TMG (or betaine as he calls it) which is what caused me to do some further reading on it.
Hoover takes a bunch of other supplements that I also want to try. So I went to the nutritional store today (well I guess it was yesterday since it is now past midnight). Anyway, I spent a ton of my wife’s money and brought home the goods. I’ll try them one at a time until I figure out which one does what.
Best wishes Scotty.
-- Ron
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2003, at 7:46:18
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for magnesium is bedtime » SLS, posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 1:13:28
Posted by Jack Smith on April 23, 2003, at 12:10:26
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for magnesium is bedtime » SLS, posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 1:13:28
> Therefore, I take it at bedtime (or about 30 minutes before) then it serves a duel function. First, it is a great sleep aid and, second, I'm convinced that it facilitates improved brain functioning. Ramp up to about 1000 mg/day.
You take all 1000 mg at once? Don't you think this is a waste as your body can only use so much at a time? Or am I wrong? I would like to take it all at bedtime but I thought that would not be efficient.
Posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 15:46:33
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for magnesium is bedtime, posted by Jack Smith on April 23, 2003, at 12:10:26
Hi Jack,
> You take all 1000 mg at once?
Yep.
> Don't you think this is a waste as your body can only use so much at a time?
Don't know. But Mg is relatively inexpensive. 1000 mg feels more beneficial than 600 mg, so my subjective analysis is that my body is soaking up at least some of the incrementally higher dose.
> I would like to take it all at bedtime but I thought that would not be efficient.
It makes logical sense that a divided dose would be more efficient. However, if I take anywhere close to a therapeutic dose during the day or evening, I get very sleepy. When I take it at bedtime, within a few minutes I can literally feel the Mg working in my brain making me relaxed, calm, and sleepy.
Zzzzzzz. Oops, sorry. I almost fell asleep just thinking about it.
-- Ron
P.S. Please note that I changed the subject line from "Best dosing time for magnesium is bedtime" to the more accurate title of "Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime"
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2003, at 20:21:56
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime » Jack Smith, posted by Ron Hill on April 23, 2003, at 15:46:33
> It makes logical sense that a divided dose would be more efficient. However, if I take anywhere close to a therapeutic dose during the day or evening, I get very sleepy.
Hi Ron.Is the glycinate version more likely to produce sleepiness than the others?
- Scott
Posted by Ron Hill on April 24, 2003, at 1:16:12
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime, posted by SLS on April 23, 2003, at 20:21:56
Hi Scott,
> Is the glycinate version more likely to produce sleepiness than the others?
Don't know. Never tried it. I currently take Mg citrate and Mg Malate. If I were to guess, I'd say no. Larry would know if he is out and a-bow-t (e's Canadian, ay) and roaming the halls.
-- Ron
Posted by bluedog on April 25, 2003, at 22:50:08
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime » SLS, posted by Ron Hill on April 24, 2003, at 1:16:12
And I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts either:):)
regards
bluedog
> Hi Scott,
>
> > Is the glycinate version more likely to produce sleepiness than the others?
>
> Don't know. Never tried it. I currently take Mg citrate and Mg Malate. If I were to guess, I'd say no. Larry would know if he is out and a-bow-t (e's Canadian, ay) and roaming the halls.
>
> -- Ron
>
Posted by lawrence S. on April 26, 2003, at 1:11:13
In reply to Larry, looks like Ron wants your thoughts on this!, posted by bluedog on April 25, 2003, at 22:50:08
Why does Mg make me so tired? I took it at bedtime and I was sleepy for 2 days afterward. I would even fall asleep while eating. I also take Nardil.
Is magnesium more of a mood stabilizer than a mood brightener?
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 26, 2003, at 8:52:41
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime » SLS, posted by Ron Hill on April 24, 2003, at 1:16:12
> Hi Scott,
>
> > Is the glycinate version more likely to produce sleepiness than the others?
>
> Don't know. Never tried it. I currently take Mg citrate and Mg Malate. If I were to guess, I'd say no. Larry would know if he is out and a-bow-t (e's Canadian, ay) and roaming the halls.
>
> -- Ron
>That's a-boot, Ron, eh?
Here's some links on glycine:
http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/proteins_glycine.html
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/gly_0127.shtmlIt is inhibitory, and may work synergistically with mood stabilizers in bipolar subjects. I couldn't find anything that addresses sleep per se.
Lar
Posted by johnj on April 28, 2003, at 13:59:47
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime, posted by Larry Hoover on April 26, 2003, at 8:52:41
<<Dear Mr. Eby:
I have visited your website from someone that posted it on Dr. Bob's (pyscho babble) website. I had a great experience for around 9 days on Mg citrate and maxed out at 600 mg(taking at night). I started to have sleep problems such as waking up early and just felt really tired. After doing some research I have found Mg can cause sleep disturbances and others on the website have posted similiar problems from taking Mg. What is your take/advice on dosing? Have you heard about this sleep problem from others? I do take a low dose TCA, lithium, and a benzo. If I take 600 mg of Mg citrate it makes me spacey the next day and makes me feel very weak. Thank you for your time and consideration.
Johnj>>Response:
<< I am not certain what causes the "sleep problem". I do to bed and fall asleep at 10:30 and instantly fall asleep, and wake up at about 4 am every morning and am ready to go. I do much creative work in those early hours, but would prefer to sleep (because I default to lazy). I think that the cause is not so much too much magnesium, but something else that is unmasked by the magnesium. Tentatively, I think that chromium and vanadium are also needed by many people. These agents seem to improve sleep duration and VERY greatly increase energy but the reason is not totally clear at this time, beyond their obvious effects on insulin resistance, which may be the cause of much depression. Search my site http://coldcure.com/html/dep.html for "insulin". Too much sugar is very high on the list of sleep problems instigators, and all of us need to cut out all soluble glucose intake. Dosing of MG varies between people, but a good initial dose is 400 mg magnesium with breakfast, same with lunch and supper and at bed time. That amount can be lowered as desired. However, the need for magnesium with meals can not be overstated. 600 mg MG at one bedtime dose is more than I have ever tried, so perhaps it would make a person wired, weak or spacey, I don't know. If it causes diarrhea, the diarrhea itself can and usually is the cause of problems you described. Diarrhea must be avoided at all costs, and elimination of soluble sugars from the diet will help prevent diarrhea.
Hope that helps.
George
>>
Posted by johnj on April 28, 2003, at 16:46:53
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime, posted by Larry Hoover on April 26, 2003, at 8:52:41
Hi Larry:
I have been out of it for a while and I see you had a bout of pneumonia too. How are you doing? I had a bout about 1.5 years ago and recovered, but it took a long time to get my wind back. I stretched a lot of muscles coughing. Hope you are not that sore. It is wicked stuff to get that is for sure. It was the sickest I have ever been, in the physical sense. Maybe it is not too late for me to also try some probiotics. My stomach was upset while I took 600 mg of Mg. I think with my meds it may be wise to try some probiotics.
I ended up sick last week, fever blisters, after eating terrible all weekend. A friend from the UK was visiting and I indulged and paid for it. Stuff I used to eat without any ramifications, but now is a no no.
I emailed George Eby about my Mg problems which is somewhat peristent to this day(I only take 200 mg a day). What do you think about the Chromium and vanadium addition? Whould TMG be of any benefit to me? I am not sure what is does, I just noticed you and Ron talking about it. Also, the chromium has different kinds...what would you suggest?
I saw my doc on Friday and he wants me to back off my benzo some. I take 22.5 mg of tranzene. Of course, I broke a 7.5 in half and have had some anxiety the last few days. The Mg mellows me at night, just wish I could sleep better. The combo of Mg and benzo may be what is making me so tired. Would love to go off the benzo for good, but that is a way down the road.
Thank you Larry. take care.
johnj
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 29, 2003, at 10:45:20
In reply to Re: Best dosing time for Mg *for me* is bedtime » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on April 28, 2003, at 16:46:53
> Hi Larry:
>
> I have been out of it for a while and I see you had a bout of pneumonia too. How are you doing? I had a bout about 1.5 years ago and recovered, but it took a long time to get my wind back. I stretched a lot of muscles coughing. Hope you are not that sore. It is wicked stuff to get that is for sure. It was the sickest I have ever been, in the physical sense. Maybe it is not too late for me to also try some probiotics. My stomach was upset while I took 600 mg of Mg. I think with my meds it may be wise to try some probiotics.Sickest I've ever been, methinks. I'm lucky, I guess, in that I responded within hours to all the meds that were pumped into me.
You hurt your leg, you can sit around, use a wheelchair, or a crutch. But what the hell do you do when it's your lungs that aren't working?
> I ended up sick last week, fever blisters, after eating terrible all weekend. A friend from the UK was visiting and I indulged and paid for it. Stuff I used to eat without any ramifications, but now is a no no.
>
> I emailed George Eby about my Mg problems which is somewhat peristent to this day(I only take 200 mg a day). What do you think about the Chromium and vanadium addition? Whould TMG be of any benefit to me? I am not sure what is does, I just noticed you and Ron talking about it. Also, the chromium has different kinds...what would you suggest?TMG can be activating. So activating, in my body, that I'm virtually guaranteed to develop insomnia unless I am extremely careful. You just have to try it and see. I'd start at 1 gram/day and see what happens. Source Naturals brand, available at Hilife Vitamins and Herbs, is a good choice.
Chromium is often made available as the picolinic acid salt, chromium picolinate. I really don't have any idea why they use that particular form.
> I saw my doc on Friday and he wants me to back off my benzo some. I take 22.5 mg of tranzene. Of course, I broke a 7.5 in half and have had some anxiety the last few days. The Mg mellows me at night, just wish I could sleep better. The combo of Mg and benzo may be what is making me so tired. Would love to go off the benzo for good, but that is a way down the road.
> Thank you Larry. take care.
>
>
> johnjJohn, I think it was Kenny Rogers who sang "You gotta....Know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away, And know when to fight."
You try something and it doesn't work, you move on. You're smarter than you were. If it works, you keep it, and maybe try something else. Maybe magnesium isn't for you, ya know?
I'm just about to climb into a truck. See ya.
Lar
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