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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 138 to 162 of 205. Go back in thread:
Posted by jflange on April 8, 2003, at 17:41:11
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone » Ron Hill, posted by johnj on April 6, 2003, at 19:50:15
Johnj:
I was looking over your posts about your magnesium success and your subsequent problems after exercise with your sleep patterns. I have had similar problems, basically an increase in anxiety for a few days after intense exercise. It drove me nuts because I thought exercise was supposed to be a relaxant and energizer. Anyway, I read later that intense exercise can sometimes cause disturbances in the lactic acid-pyruvic acid ratio. According to an article I read (cannot find it now but I am sure you could find this info online), this chemical process can lead to a decrease in the blood pH level which in turn causes a disturbance in the total calcium and ionized calcium. The brain stem looks upon this as a chemical signal of danger and the fight-or-flight reaction occurs as adrenaline is secreted into the blood stream.
In short, intense exercise made me lose sleep, feel down, but keyed-up and anxious. So now I do yoga, which so far does not have the same negative effects. Maybe try to moderate your exercise regimen, but don't get rid of the magnesium! I could not live without my 400mg/day!!
jflange
Posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 18:30:02
In reply to To johnj: exercise and sleep, posted by jflange on April 8, 2003, at 17:41:11
Thank you very much, it is very kind of you to respond. I will look that up or store your email so I can look at it when I get a little better. I have had no energy for the last two days. I am just getting by at work by the skin of my teeth.
I took 600 mg last night and had about 6 hours of sleep and woke up early and couldn't sleep. It feels as if I used all my energy that period when I was feeling well. I am puzzled on whether I should continue with Mg or not. I had a response when I took 200 mg so I will go down to that or lower and see if I can sleep well. I don't want to quit, but it has been a week since I have excercised and things have been up and down with the last few days pretty rough. Acutally, I feel that my energy level is even lower now than before the Mg.
Is there anyway to balance out the pH so the the flight or flight mechanism doesn't start? I did yoga last Wednesday and was ok the next day, but I have a feeling upping my Mg is not a good idea. The odd thing is fish oil initially helped me, but then left my sleep fragmented. I wonder what is going on? I am going to see a doc if things don't get improve for the better, even a little improvement would make me feel better. Tonight will tell. As I will only take 100 or 200 mg. Thank you for your post, I appreciate it very much.
johnj
Posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 18:33:41
In reply to To johnj: exercise and sleep, posted by jflange on April 8, 2003, at 17:41:11
Hi Larry,
What do you think of the jflanges post? Any input would be appreciated. See below.
<I was looking over your posts about your magnesium success and your subsequent problems after exercise with your sleep patterns. I have had similar problems, basically an increase in anxiety for a few days after intense exercise. It drove me nuts because I thought exercise was supposed to be a relaxant and energizer. Anyway, I read later that intense exercise can sometimes cause disturbances in the lactic acid-pyruvic acid ratio. According to an article I read (cannot find it now but I am sure you could find this info online), this chemical process can lead to a decrease in the blood pH level which in turn causes a disturbance in the total calcium and ionized calcium. The brain stem looks upon this as a chemical signal of danger and the fight-or-flight reaction occurs as adrenaline is secreted into the blood stream.In short, intense exercise made me lose sleep, feel down, but keyed-up and anxious. So now I do yoga, which so far does not have the same negative effects. Maybe try to moderate your exercise regimen, but don't get rid of the magnesium! I could not live without my 400mg/day!!
jflange>Also I had one question regarding cortisol. If the adrenals are stressed doesn't it eventually shut off cortisol production? So, high or low could be a problem right? Thank you
johnj
Posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 20:00:51
In reply to Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep » jflange, posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 18:30:02
Hi JohnJ,
Sorry to hear you aren't feeling any better. I looked up the info presented by JFlange and found some interesting stuff.
This may be the article referred to: http://www.cantfly.com/c/information/whitepapers/ One thing recommended by that doctor for anxiety is that people avoid alcohol, caffeine, Nutrasweet, food colorings, MSG (Monosodium Glutamate), and cold medications.
I think I told you that I found I have to be careful about glutamates. I was already avoiding the other things before I realized that I had to watch those too.
This sportsmedicine site
http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/glossaryn-z.html
makes several points relevant to your situation perhaps. One is that he states under "Overtraining" that this can result in insomnia and depression, among other things.
He says that "Pyruvic acid increases in quantity in the blood and tissues in thiamine (vitamin B-1) deficiency."
He also notes that "RDAs are far too low for serious athletes and even for fitness enthusiasts who exercise regularly."
About B vitamins, "When you exercise strenuously, your body quickly burns up its vitamin B supply. A shortage of Bs affects both performance and recovery. High consumption of sugar, caffeine, processed food and alcohol cause depletion."
Under "Vitamin C" he says that it's "depleted rapidly" by exercise and stress among other things, and that it "slows down lactic acid buildup".
Considering that info, could you have not been taking enough extra Vit B and C to counteract the increase in exercise?
On this biology site, http://www.biology.arizona.edu/biochemistry/problem_sets/medph/02t.html I see the explanation:
"Excursions in the acid direction (i.e., below 7.35) are particularly to be feared, given the variations in production of acids such as lactic acid, pyruvic acid, acetic acid, etc., by metabolism. Production of such acids during peak exercise can lower peripheral blood pH to well below 7.0."
The more I do things to alkalize myself, the better I feel physically and also mentally. It seems like I just feel "sharper" somehow.
Here's a list of alkalizing and acidifying foods:
http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html
Posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 20:43:04
In reply to Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep » johnj, posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 20:00:51
JLx,
Thank you so much for the information and help. I cannot express how much I appreciate it.
I have been taking an extra 1000mg of Vit C and extra B's too. Interesting you mentioned about the apple cider vinegar. I just found out my brother takes some in warm water every morning since his mother-in-law has been doing it. My wife said they do it in Asia to strengthen the blood (pH, I assume).
I have a rare disease called peyronie's(quite embarassing for me to say but what the hell) so I take extra E and alpha lipoic acid. My stomach has been feeling a little overloaded. I do believe I should go down on the Mg and see what happens. I will go with 100 to 200 mg tonight. The last two days have been days with little or no energy just barely getting by.
I will read the articles and will print some out and make a binder with things in so I don't get so confused. Thank you again.
I hope Beardy saw my apology.
Hope things still work for you and keep us posted on what you have done to tweak the process. What amount of Mg are you taking now? Any other supplements together at the same time? Or do you take everything after eating?
take care
johnj
Posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 21:12:32
In reply to Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep, posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 20:43:04
> Thank you so much for the information and help. I cannot express how much I appreciate it.
You're welcome. :) I know how hard it is to not feel like doing anything and besides I was interested for myself too. I have the book "Strong Women Stay Young" by Mirian Nelson, have read it and even bought the weights last summer, but have yet to get doing the strength training on a regular basis. I am feeling overwhelmed with the "things to do" in my life right now that were neglected or have been compounded by my poverty due to the years of depression, starting with "find a job", so I am not pressuring myself too much on the weight training issue just yet. But when I do, this info will come in handy!
This morning I took apple cider vinegar mixed with a little lemon juice and a few drops of stevia and it was not only tolerable to drink but I really felt good a short time afterwards. One thing it is supposed to do, besides alkalize the body, is lower the glycemic index effect of food (and hence blood sugar fluctuations) if you take it with or just before a meal.
> Hope things still work for you and keep us posted on what you have done to tweak the process. What amount of Mg are you taking now? Any other supplements together at the same time? Or do you take everything after eating?
I'm still taking 600/800 or 1,000 mg of magnesium each day. I am also following all of the other advice of George Eby's site, the boron, fish oil, no glutamates, etc. I'm not very systematic about my supplements as far as keeping track of exact amounts of what I take each day, but they are pretty much as I told you previously. One new thing is that I ran out of the enzymes I was taking and could feel the difference in how long food seemed to stay in my stomach, so I had to go buy some more of those.
Did you think any more about finding a doc to help you sort these things out? If I didn't already give this site to you, here is one http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/directory/ with both organizations and a page where you can put in your city. There is a clinic in my general area, that I have heard about before for it's natural approach, and I would go there if I had the bucks. It's difficult sorting all this out on one's own.
I hope you have better luck soon.
Posted by bluedog on April 9, 2003, at 5:30:23
In reply to Re: magnesium, sleeping » beardedlady, posted by Larry Hoover on April 6, 2003, at 17:37:46
Hi Larry
Well, after trying and trying to find a suitable form of magnesium I have decided to try good old magnesium chloride as this is arguably THE most bio-available source of magnesium on the available. Magnesium glycinate is very difficult to find in health food stores and the mail order over the internet was my only real option for this substance....but I'm after the magnesium and magnesium glycinate turns out to be a LOT more expensive than magnesium chloride.
However do you know that it is almost impossible to find pure magnesium chloride in health food stores and when you do it's horribly expensive and usually mixed in with other less healthy forms of magnesium. As for the magnesium amino acid chelates trying to get the information as to EXACTLY what the binding amino acid is in this form from the Vitamin Companies is like trying to get the Pentagon's or the CIA's most top secret plans because they think your going to sell their trade secrets to the Chinese or the North Koreans. I suspect they don't want to tell me because they probably use whatever binding amino acid is available and cheap at the time and it probably even varies from batch to batch or may even be a mixture of of different amino acids. Like you told me in another post purchasing magnesium amino acid chelate is like a crap shoot.....you might get glycine but you might also get glutamine or taurine as the binding agent. Which George eby says to avoid.
Then I came across this link on magnesium chloride on the net http://www.mrbean.net.au/~wlast/magnesiumchloride.html
If you click on the link titled "Resources" it brings you to the following link http://www.mrbean.net.au/~wlast/resources.html
This link provided all my answers as to where I could get my supply of pure magnesium chloride.....NOT from health food stores but from chemical suppliers and agricultural suppliers. Now the link says that technical grade Magnesium chloride is absolutely fine. After a few phone calls to a few Pharmaceutical companies I discovered that to make sure it's really safe to consume you should purchase BP grade chemicals which apparently means pharmaceutacial grade. I then called up some chemical companies and yes they did sell BP grade Magnesium Chloride but the minimum purchase I could make was a 25kg bag but it only costs $8.00 Australian dollars per kilo. Now this is seriously cheap for a food supplement but I really don't know what I'd do with 25kg of the stuff. Then I struck pay dirt and one company was kind enough to actually give me the telephone number of a smaller chemical lab who they supplied and this smaller lab on sold it in consumer quantities. It's a little more expensive but I now have in my possession one 500g tub of BP grade Magnesium Chloride flakes for $14.00 Australian dollars. This is still pretty cheap.FINALLY I get to my question for you Larry.
How much of this substance should I take? In other words how many grams of magnesium are actually contained in my 500g tub of magnesium chloride flakes?
So far I have taken one heaped teaspoon in water.It looks and tastes just like table salt and dissolves VERY easily in a glass of water. I then add some cordial as a sweetener to mask the saltiness and drink it down. How much magnesium do you estimate I took in my one heaped teaspoon?
Thanks for your help Larry?
regards
bluedog
Posted by jodeye on April 9, 2003, at 12:21:34
In reply to Re: Magnesium Chloride - some questions LARRY? » Larry Hoover, posted by bluedog on April 9, 2003, at 5:30:23
> How much of this substance should I take? In other words how many grams of magnesium are actually contained in my 500g tub of magnesium chloride flakes?
>bluedog,
I have found that the chemical supply houses supply two forms of magnesium chloride.
1) Anhydrous magnesium chloride, (anhydrous).
2) Magnesium chloride hexahydrate, (hydrate).The hydrate is much more stable and contains six water molecules. Of the three chemical supply houses that I contacted, their product listed as just magnesium chloride, is actually the hydrate form. Anhydrous is close to 26 percent elemental magnesium by weight. The hydrate is close to 12 percent elemental magnesium by weight.
What I do is add the 500g hydrate to a quart jar and then fill it to one quart with water.
According to my math...
1) One quart contains 192 teaspoons.
2) 500g hydrate contains 60,000 mg elemental mag, (500,000 times 0.12).
3) One teaspoon of the mixture equals 312 mg elemental magnesium, (60,000 divided by 192).Then I just add a teaspoon of this mixture to a shot of water. Bottoms up!
Aloha,
--jodeye
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 9, 2003, at 12:43:30
In reply to Re: Magnesium Chloride - some questions LARRY? » Larry Hoover, posted by bluedog on April 9, 2003, at 5:30:23
> Hi Larry
I'll snip to the core issues.
>Now the link says that technical grade Magnesium chloride is absolutely fine. After a few phone calls to a few Pharmaceutical companies I discovered that to make sure it's really safe to consume you should purchase BP grade chemicals which apparently means pharmaceutacial grade. I then called up some chemical companies and yes they did sell BP grade Magnesium Chloride but the minimum purchase I could make was a 25kg bag but it only costs $8.00 Australian dollars per kilo. Now this is seriously cheap for a food supplement but I really don't know what I'd do with 25kg of the stuff. Then I struck pay dirt and one company was kind enough to actually give me the telephone number of a smaller chemical lab who they supplied and this smaller lab on sold it in consumer quantities. It's a little more expensive but I now have in my possession one 500g tub of BP grade Magnesium Chloride flakes for $14.00 Australian dollars. This is still pretty cheap.
Technical grade has higher levels of impurities. You don't want to take the risk of unknown contaminants, IMHO.
> FINALLY I get to my question for you Larry.
>
> How much of this substance should I take? In other words how many grams of magnesium are actually contained in my 500g tub of magnesium chloride flakes?Well, it depends on the actual form of the crystals. It could be Mg(Cl)2, or it could be the hexahydrate Mg(Cl)2.6(H20).
The molecular weight of the former is 95.21, of which 25.5% is elemental magnesium. So, you've got 125 grams, more or less.
In the second case, the weight of the water of hydration has to be considered, and it's 12% magnesium by weight, yielding about 60 grams elemental Mg.
> So far I have taken one heaped teaspoon in water.It looks and tastes just like table salt and dissolves VERY easily in a glass of water. I then add some cordial as a sweetener to mask the saltiness and drink it down. How much magnesium do you estimate I took in my one heaped teaspoon?
A teaspoon is a volume measurement. The only way to know how much magnesium is in a teaspoon is to develop some sort of relationship between mass and volume. Two ways: weigh a teaspoonful, in miligrams, and use the percentages I found above, or take the volume of the whole container in mL, and work it out per teaspoonful (assuming 5 mL per *level* teaspoonful).
> Thanks for your help Larry?
>
> regards
> bluedogYou're welcome.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 9, 2003, at 12:51:08
In reply to Re: Magnesium Chloride - some questions LARRY? » bluedog, posted by jodeye on April 9, 2003, at 12:21:34
> What I do is add the 500g hydrate to a quart jar and then fill it to one quart with water.
Excellent solution! (pun intended)
> According to my math...
>
> 1) One quart contains 192 teaspoons.Assuming an American quart of 32 ounces. The (ahem) civilised world uses a 40 oz. quart.
> 2) 500g hydrate contains 60,000 mg elemental mag, (500,000 times 0.12).
> 3) One teaspoon of the mixture equals 312 mg elemental magnesium, (60,000 divided by 192).
>
> Then I just add a teaspoon of this mixture to a shot of water. Bottoms up!
>
> Aloha,
>
> --jodeyeWell done!
Lar
Posted by bluedog on April 9, 2003, at 12:57:33
In reply to Re: Magnesium Chloride - some questions LARRY? » bluedog, posted by jodeye on April 9, 2003, at 12:21:34
>
> > How much of this substance should I take? In other words how many grams of magnesium are actually contained in my 500g tub of magnesium chloride flakes?
> >
>
> bluedog,
>
> I have found that the chemical supply houses supply two forms of magnesium chloride.
>
> 1) Anhydrous magnesium chloride, (anhydrous).
> 2) Magnesium chloride hexahydrate, (hydrate).
>
> The hydrate is much more stable and contains six water molecules. Of the three chemical supply houses that I contacted, their product listed as just magnesium chloride, is actually the hydrate form. Anhydrous is close to 26 percent elemental magnesium by weight. The hydrate is close to 12 percent elemental magnesium by weight.
>
> What I do is add the 500g hydrate to a quart jar and then fill it to one quart with water.
>
> According to my math...
>
> 1) One quart contains 192 teaspoons.
> 2) 500g hydrate contains 60,000 mg elemental mag, (500,000 times 0.12).
> 3) One teaspoon of the mixture equals 312 mg elemental magnesium, (60,000 divided by 192).
>
> Then I just add a teaspoon of this mixture to a shot of water. Bottoms up!
>
> Aloha,
>
> --jodeye
>Jodeye
Thanks for the information. I have just one question as I am not familiar with what a quart is as my feeble brain can only cope with purely metric/decimal measures
Would you be able to tell me how many ml (or litres) there is in a quart?
I will ring up my supplier tommorrow to find out whether the mag chlor I purchased is hydrate or anhydrate but from what your telling me my guess is it's probably the hydrated form.
From your calculations I suspect that my my heaped teaspoon of the crystals that I dissolved in water contained more magnesium than 312mg (my guess is probably between 600-900mg) because I did experience what you would term a mild laxative effect. I've never experienced this before as the most elemental magnesium I've ever taken at once is probably around 200mg. So I probably need to spread out the dose that I took over two or three smaller doses in a 24 hour period because 600-900mg all at once was probably more than my is body is used to.
cheers
bluedog
Posted by bluedog on April 9, 2003, at 13:05:08
In reply to Re: Magnesium Chloride - some questions LARRY?, posted by Larry Hoover on April 9, 2003, at 12:43:30
> >Now the link says that technical grade Magnesium chloride is absolutely fine. After a few phone calls to a few Pharmaceutical companies I discovered that to make sure it's really safe to consume you should purchase BP grade chemicals which apparently means pharmaceutacial grade. I then called up some chemical companies and yes they did sell BP grade Magnesium Chloride but the minimum purchase I could make was a 25kg bag but it only costs $8.00 Australian dollars per kilo. Now this is seriously cheap for a food supplement but I really don't know what I'd do with 25kg of the stuff. Then I struck pay dirt and one company was kind enough to actually give me the telephone number of a smaller chemical lab who they supplied and this smaller lab on sold it in consumer quantities. It's a little more expensive but I now have in my possession one 500g tub of BP grade Magnesium Chloride flakes for $14.00 Australian dollars. This is still pretty cheap.
>
> Technical grade has higher levels of impurities. You don't want to take the risk of unknown contaminants, IMHO.
>
Thanks LarryI actually thanked Jodeye before your response appeared on the radar.
So have I done the right thing in going for BP grade Mag Chlor? Apparently the BP stands for British Pharmaceutical....is this correct?
regards
bluedog
Posted by bluedog on April 9, 2003, at 13:32:57
In reply to Re: Thank you Larry as well » Larry Hoover, posted by bluedog on April 9, 2003, at 13:05:08
A quart equals 32 oz or 40 oz?
Looking at both your responses I assume you are both referring to the (allegedly uncivilized) version of 32 oz as equalling a quart.
Larry , I beg to differ. In the TRULY civilized world we refer to mililitres and litres not to quarts and ounces
If you could tell me how many ml or litres there are in a a quart (either the 32oz version or the 40 oz version) I can then work it out further on my own :)
thanks
bluedog
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 9, 2003, at 14:47:53
In reply to Re. Quarts and ounces ??? - Larry and Jodeye, posted by bluedog on April 9, 2003, at 13:32:57
> A quart equals 32 oz or 40 oz?
Both. You just need to know which one *you're* using.
> Looking at both your responses I assume you are both referring to the (allegedly uncivilized) version of 32 oz as equalling a quart.
> Larry , I beg to differ. In the TRULY civilized world we refer to mililitres and litres not to quarts and ouncesTouche.
> If you could tell me how many ml or litres there are in a a quart (either the 32oz version or the 40 oz version) I can then work it out further on my own :)
>
> thanks
> bluedogOne litre is about 35.2 ounces.
Posted by jodeye on April 9, 2003, at 16:48:14
In reply to Re. Quarts and ounces ??? - Larry and Jodeye, posted by bluedog on April 9, 2003, at 13:32:57
Hi,
You were measuring your doses in rounded teaspoons, now mixing in metric, the math gets more involved.
Actually, my Dr. told me I could mix it anyway I like, without knowing the milligrams, since I am trying to consume maximum magnesium without causing laxative effect, however much that may be. I just need to be sure to mix it the same way each time.
Aloha,
--jodeye
Posted by McPac on April 9, 2003, at 17:02:36
In reply to Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep » johnj, posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 21:12:32
Didn't you go through the nasty withdrawal when you stopped taking your Zoloft cold turkey?
Posted by JLx on April 9, 2003, at 17:12:49
In reply to JLx, posted by McPac on April 9, 2003, at 17:02:36
> Didn't you go through the nasty withdrawal when you stopped taking your Zoloft cold turkey?
I think I answered this before. I did have some shortness of breath and a tightness sort of feeling in my chest the first day off, but I went for a long walk and felt better afterwards, so I guess the short answer is "no". I've gone off and on Zoloft several times without incident.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2003, at 12:26:07
In reply to Now I am confused! - Bluedog, posted by jodeye on April 9, 2003, at 16:48:14
> Hi,
>
> You were measuring your doses in rounded teaspoons, now mixing in metric, the math gets more involved.Actually, getting away from imperial measure vastly simplifies the math. Everything's decimal, as contrasted to three teaspoons in a tablespoon, two tablespoons in an ounce, 32 (or 40) ounces in a quart, etc.
For example: Dissolving the 500 grams of Mg chloride hexahydrate in one liter of water gives you a solution of 60 grams of Mg in 1000 mL of water (determined in previous posts). To get a particular mass of Mg, you solve for a volume in mL. To get 0.5 grams Mg (500 mg), you set up a ratio like this:
1000 mL/ 60 grams = X mL/ 0.5 grams
Rearrangement gives : X mL = (1000 mL)(0.5)/60 (the grams cancel out)
= 8.33 mL
You can get graduated "spoons" measured in mL at any pharmacy, as pediatric medication is often in a liquid form, permitting dosing by body mass.
Setting up the ratio a little differently allows you to figure out how much Mg is in a specific volume. A standard teaspoon is 5 mL.
> Actually, my Dr. told me I could mix it anyway I like, without knowing the milligrams, since I am trying to consume maximum magnesium without causing laxative effect, however much that may be. I just need to be sure to mix it the same way each time.
> Aloha,
>
> --jodeye
>
>
>
Posted by bluedog on April 10, 2003, at 12:40:18
In reply to Re: Now I am confused! - Bluedog » jodeye, posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2003, at 12:26:07
Hi Larry
The following links provide the grade specs analysis for two forms of Magnesium Chloride I can purchase from a supplier in my city.
1. http://www.ajaxfinechem.com/products/products.html
2. http://www.ajaxfinechem.com/products/products.html
The second product is slightly more expensive than the first product but they are made by the same company and the supplier in my city can supply either of these products in 500g size.
The next size up is unfortunately 5kg which of course would make it more economical but I don't know how long you could store these products before they go off (if this actually happens at all) and I think it would take me a long time to use up 5kg.
Unfortunately, these specs go way above my chemical knowledge so I'd like to ask you whether you would consider either of these products as suitable for human consumption based on the spec sheet analysis of these products?
If your answer is yes which one would you recommend I purchase?
Thanks in advance Larry
regards
bluedog
Posted by bluedog on April 10, 2003, at 12:55:49
In reply to Re: Thanks Larry - some questions on spec sheets? » Larry Hoover, posted by bluedog on April 10, 2003, at 12:40:18
Sorry about that but the following link http://www.ajaxfinechem.com/products/products.html brings you to a page where there is another link on a tab called "products" and when you get to that page then the product codes I'm looking at are as follows.
296-500g and 297-500g
Alternatively (and more simply) you can simply type in magnesium chloride and it will give you links to the products listed under the trade names of Univar and Unilab with another tab called info sheet at each separate product page which gives you the analytical tech sheets.
Sorry about the bother Larry
Regards
bluedog
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2003, at 13:19:24
In reply to Re: Thanks Larry - some questions on spec sheets? » Larry Hoover, posted by bluedog on April 10, 2003, at 12:40:18
> Hi Larry
>
> The following links provide the grade specs analysis for two forms of Magnesium Chloride I can purchase from a supplier in my city.
>
> 1. http://www.ajaxfinechem.com/products/products.html
>
> 2. http://www.ajaxfinechem.com/products/products.htmlThe links didn't work, but I presume that they relate to Univar and Unilab grade mag chloride, respectively?
> The second product is slightly more expensive than the first product but they are made by the same company and the supplier in my city can supply either of these products in 500g size.
Given that they state that Unilab grade meets BP standards, I'd go with the more expensive one.
> The next size up is unfortunately 5kg which of course would make it more economical but I don't know how long you could store these products before they go off (if this actually happens at all) and I think it would take me a long time to use up 5kg.They would be expected to have an indefinite shelf life. There's nothing that can happen if you keep it dry. I'd presume that both the 500 mg and 5 kg containers would be plastic with screw tops. That would be fine.
> Unfortunately, these specs go way above my chemical knowledge so I'd like to ask you whether you would consider either of these products as suitable for human consumption based on the spec sheet analysis of these products?
>
> If your answer is yes which one would you recommend I purchase?
>
> Thanks in advance Larry
>
> regards
> bluedogThe more expensive one.
Lar
Posted by bluedog on April 10, 2003, at 13:56:41
In reply to Re: Thanks Larry - some questions on spec sheets?, posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2003, at 13:19:24
> > Hi Larry
> >
> > The following links provide the grade specs analysis for two forms of Magnesium Chloride I can purchase from a supplier in my city.
> >
> > 1. http://www.ajaxfinechem.com/products/products.html
> >
> > 2. http://www.ajaxfinechem.com/products/products.html
>
> The links didn't work, but I presume that they relate to Univar and Unilab grade mag chloride, respectively?
>
> > The second product is slightly more expensive than the first product but they are made by the same company and the supplier in my city can supply either of these products in 500g size.
>
> Given that they state that Unilab grade meets BP standards, I'd go with the more expensive one.
>
> > The next size up is unfortunately 5kg which of course would make it more economical but I don't know how long you could store these products before they go off (if this actually happens at all) and I think it would take me a long time to use up 5kg.
>
> They would be expected to have an indefinite shelf life. There's nothing that can happen if you keep it dry. I'd presume that both the 500 mg and 5 kg containers would be plastic with screw tops. That would be fine.
>
> > Unfortunately, these specs go way above my chemical knowledge so I'd like to ask you whether you would consider either of these products as suitable for human consumption based on the spec sheet analysis of these products?
> >
> > If your answer is yes which one would you recommend I purchase?
> >
> > Thanks in advance Larry
> >
> > regards
> > bluedog
>
> The more expensive one.
>
> LarThanks Larry
Believe it or not the Unilab British Pharmacopoeia (BP) grade Magnesium Chloride is actually the cheaper of the two products.
The Univar Magnesium Chloride (the more expensive one)conforms to to both American Chemical Society standards (ACS) and Food Chemicals Codex (FCC) standard which is apparently the standard required for a chemical to be allowed to be added to food in Australia.
In light of the above would you still recommend I go for the more expensive one. (It costs about $8.00 Australian Dollars more for the 500g pack of the more expensive Univar product.
I know I'm being paranoid but I assume that all these standards mean that these chemicals are quite pure and fit for human consumption....Right???????
thanks again Larry
regards
bluedog
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2003, at 14:02:39
In reply to Re: Larry something went wrong in those links, posted by bluedog on April 10, 2003, at 12:55:49
> Sorry about that but the following link http://www.ajaxfinechem.com/products/products.html brings you to a page where there is another link on a tab called "products" and when you get to that page then the product codes I'm looking at are as follows.
>
> 296-500g and 297-500g
>
> Alternatively (and more simply) you can simply type in magnesium chloride and it will give you links to the products listed under the trade names of Univar and Unilab with another tab called info sheet at each separate product page which gives you the analytical tech sheets.
>
> Sorry about the bother Larry
>
> Regards
> bluedogI said Unilab on the last message, when I meant Univar. In the top section of the analytical report, it lists purity at 99-100.5%. The other one is 98-101%. If the cost difference is small, go with the purer stuff. I don't think you have anything to fear, even with the less pure product.
Lar
Posted by bluedog on April 10, 2003, at 14:24:48
In reply to Re: Larry something went wrong in those links, posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2003, at 14:02:39
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2003, at 14:53:44
In reply to Thanks Larry and Goodnight, I'm Off to bed now:) (nm) » Larry Hoover, posted by bluedog on April 10, 2003, at 14:24:48
Just a bit about seeking out the highest quality of supplements (where evidence for such is available)....
You're not contemplating a one-time exposure to the supplement, you're contemplating a recurrent exposure to the same material. If there was to be any adverse effect, the most likely would arise from cumulative exposure to some impurity. So, the higher the standard of purity, the safer you are.
Lar
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