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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 89 to 113 of 205. Go back in thread:
Posted by noa on April 4, 2003, at 9:46:13
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone » johnj, posted by beardedlady on April 4, 2003, at 5:37:22
>> I believe cortisol is a stress hormone. You don't usually release it while exercising (I don't think you do anyway) unless you're stressed out about something.
In fact, I believe exercise helps to reduce cortisol. Our stress response is designed for dealing with acute, immediate survival situations. Cortisol and adrenaline help make available immediate energy for running for your life. Of course, we have more chronic stressors, and our biological stress response system isn't well suited for that. That is why regular exercise is recommended to help manage our stress. See Robert Sapolsky,PhD., "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers".
>
Posted by jemma on April 4, 2003, at 11:22:21
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone, posted by noa on April 4, 2003, at 9:46:13
Actually, vigorous exercise increases cortisol in the short term because it puts stress on the body - but not all stress is bad for you. In the long term, exercise helps the body (and mind) to withstand stress, lowering overall cortisol levels.
I went to Mr. Eby's site and I find some things there that concern me. I supplement with magnesium and believe that most of us don't get enough of it. Certainly it helps with sleep, muscle aches, and anxiety. But calcium is even more essential - without enough of it, our bones start to break. I have osteopenia from calcium deficiency, and believe me I'd prefer magnesium deficiency. Calcium also helps with anxiety and sleep. And as a lifelong depressive, I'm walking proof that depression is not caused by too much calcium.
The important thing is to keep the body's vitamins and minerals amply supplied and in balance. I'd be very skeptical of pinning my hopes on any one supplement for a miraculous cure. And it's very easy to bring on deficiency states in one vitamin or mineral by taking megadoses of another. Even vitamin C, though safe in megadoses, has been shown to induce deficiency symptoms in people who suddenly stop megadosing.
- jemma
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2003, at 11:35:46
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone, posted by noa on April 4, 2003, at 9:46:13
> >> I believe cortisol is a stress hormone. You don't usually release it while exercising (I don't think you do anyway) unless you're stressed out about something.
>
> In fact, I believe exercise helps to reduce cortisol. Our stress response is designed for dealing with acute, immediate survival situations. Cortisol and adrenaline help make available immediate energy for running for your life. Of course, we have more chronic stressors, and our biological stress response system isn't well suited for that. That is why regular exercise is recommended to help manage our stress. See Robert Sapolsky,PhD., "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers".
> >I'll just jump in here, and try to address some of the ideas in on message.
John: My simple advice is to go gently. Don't push for results (from exercise). Overexertion will undo the effect of the magnesium. Focus on exertion vs. over-exertion. I wonder if you have something akin to chronic fatigue syndrome, characterized by an exaggerated rebound fatigue following exertion. The only management technique that works is monitoring exertion levels, and limiting over-exertion (truly only assessed in hindsight). In other words, you need to practice assessing your exertion level, and calling it quits *before* you're exhausted.
With respect to cortisol release and exercise. All exercise increases cortisol release. Exercise is used as an experimentally-controlled variable to induce cortisol release, both in man, and laboratory animals. This is an acute response. Stress reduction from exercise is more likely mediated by other hormones released during exertion. These other hormones help to balance out the body's response to cortisol. IMHO, it's the lack of balancing hormones which makes for the cortisol/stress correlation.
Lar
Posted by disney4 on April 4, 2003, at 11:40:49
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone, posted by jemma on April 4, 2003, at 11:22:21
Hi Larry,
Could you help me to interpret this article on glycine? I am considering switching to the magnesium glycinate from the magnesium l-lactate (mag-tab slow release) for added help with bipolar disorder and medication withdrawl induced benign myoclonic jerks.
GLYCINE: SYNTHESIS AND UPTAKE
Glycine is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brainstem and spinal cord, where it participates in a variety of motor and sensory functions. Glycine is also present in the forebrain, where it has recently been shown to function as a coagonist at the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) subtype of glutamate receptor. In the latter, context glycine promotes the actions of glutamate, the major excitatory neurotransmitter (for a discussion of glycine's role as a coagonist of the NMDA receptor, see Excitatory Amino Acid Neurotransmission). Thus, glycine subserves both inhibitory and excitatory functions within the CNS.Glycine is formed from serine by the enzyme serine hydroxymethyltransferase (SHMT). Glycine, like GABA, is released from nerve endings in a Ca2+-dependent fashion. The actions of glycine are terminated primarily by reuptake via Na+/Cl--dependent, high-affinity glycine transporters. The specific uptake of glycine has been demonstrated in the brainstem and spinal cord in regions where there are also high densities of inhibitory glycine receptors.
Recently, two glycine transporters have been cloned and shown to be expressed in the CNS as well as in various peripheral tissues (11, 19). These glycine transporters are members of the large family of Na+/Cl--dependent neurotransmitter transporters, and both share approximately 50% sequence identity with the GABA transporters discussed above. The deduced amino acid sequence of both cDNAs predicts the typical 12 transmembrane domains characteristic of these transporters. The two glycine cloned transporters have been named GLYT-1 and GLYT-2 in the order that they were reported (11). These transporter cDNAs are transcribed from the same gene and are quite similar in their 3¢ nucleotide sequences. They differ in their 5¢ noncoding regions as well as in the first 44 nucleotides of their coding sequence. Expression of GLYT-1 and GLYT-2 yield transporters with similar kinetic and pharmacological properties. Interestingly, however, the distribution of GLYT-1 and GLYT-2 transcripts measured by in situ hybridization are different. GLYT-1 mRNA also closely parallels the distribution of the glycine receptor. These data suggest that GLYT-1 is primarily a glial glycine transporter whereas GLYT-2 is primarily a neuronal transporter. The mapping of both glycine transporter mRNAs, as well as the glycine receptor subunit mRNAs, confirm the importance of this neurotransmitter in the brainstem and spinal cord, but support a more widespread distribution in supraspinal brain regions than was previously suspected.
Posted by JLx on April 4, 2003, at 11:42:33
In reply to Re: Magnesium - final thoughts and best wishes » JLx, posted by Ron Hill on April 2, 2003, at 12:19:24
> Hi JLx,
>
> > And with that, I am leaving this board.
>
> Why not stick around and help others now and then as time allows?
>
> -- RonHi Ron,
Well, I thought that I had said all I have to say, but it seems I am still learning more so here I am back again. :)
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2003, at 12:01:28
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone, posted by jemma on April 4, 2003, at 11:22:21
>I have osteopenia from calcium deficiency, and believe me I'd prefer magnesium deficiency. Calcium also helps with anxiety and sleep. And as a lifelong depressive, I'm walking proof that depression is not caused by too much calcium.
There are two simultaneous and opposing processes occurring in bone tissue, mineral deposition by osteoblasts, and mineral dissolution by osteoclasts. If you're magnesium deficient, you're going to get an increase in osteoclast activity, as the biggest and most accessible store of magnesium in the body is bone. This leads to osteopenia and osteoporosis, even in the presence of adequate dietary calcium. This is identifiable by high blood calcium levels despite evidence of bone porosity. Unfortunately, the high blood calcium levels shut down the active uptake of both calcium and magnesium, exacerbating the magnesium deficiency. One of the leading causes of magnesium deficiency is.....magnesium deficiency.
I'm not suggesting you're wrong, or anything like that. It's just that bone calcium loss has to be assessed in the context of a number of other parameters. Dietary calcium intake is just one variable to consider.
Posted by jemma on April 4, 2003, at 12:21:54
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone, posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2003, at 12:01:28
> >I have osteopenia from calcium deficiency, and believe me I'd prefer magnesium deficiency. Calcium also helps with anxiety and sleep. And as a lifelong depressive, I'm walking proof that depression is not caused by too much calcium.
>
> There are two simultaneous and opposing processes occurring in bone tissue, mineral deposition by osteoblasts, and mineral dissolution by osteoclasts. If you're magnesium deficient, you're going to get an increase in osteoclast activity, as the biggest and most accessible store of magnesium in the body is bone. This leads to osteopenia and osteoporosis, even in the presence of adequate dietary calcium. This is identifiable by high blood calcium levels despite evidence of bone porosity. Unfortunately, the high blood calcium levels shut down the active uptake of both calcium and magnesium, exacerbating the magnesium deficiency. One of the leading causes of magnesium deficiency is.....magnesium deficiency.
>
> I'm not suggesting you're wrong, or anything like that. It's just that bone calcium loss has to be assessed in the context of a number of other parameters. Dietary calcium intake is just one variable to consider.
>Hi Larry -
Actually, in my case, I was deficient in calcium, due to hypercalcuria caused by my undiagnosed ndi. I supplement with both calcium and magnesium now, but in balance. My post was in reaction to the Eby site which seems to me excessively anti-calcium.
- jemma
Posted by beardedlady on April 4, 2003, at 12:40:42
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone » beardedlady, posted by johnj on April 4, 2003, at 9:43:17
I'm sorry, John. I wasn't scolding.
You sounded like you were doing very well. You had one night when you didn't sleep so well, and then you were better again. I was merely pointing out that it's okay to have a bad night surrounded by good ones and to leave your particular cocktail alone and give it time to assess it.
My exclamation marks stand for enthusiasm, not scolding. I'm sorry you took it that way. I'm also sorry I posted. I shouldn't have.
I just see this tendency to overanalyze (and yes, I think it's overanalysis, not simply analysis) everything and to be impatient because we have wasted so much time already. We dwell on every twitch and zing, trying to pin the blame on our med or yesterday's toast. Most of the time it seems to be just our bodies behaving the way bodies do.
I just wanted to encourage you to relax and give it some time because you seemed to be doing so well.
I'm sorry to have hurt your feelings.
beardy
Posted by Ron Hill on April 4, 2003, at 13:11:09
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on April 3, 2003, at 22:36:55
John,
> I felt so good on Monday so I lifted weights on at 6 pm and had a bad night sleeping.
Please give me a little more detail regarding your sleep problems. Do you have trouble falling asleep when you first lie down or do you fall asleep initially but then wake up in the middle of the night and can't go back to sleep?
When you're having trouble getting to sleep, is your body tired but your brain is going full steam? In other words, do you lay in bed ruminating thoughts over-and-over in you mind?
When you finally get to sleep, do you sleep soundly or do you merely doze near the edge of consciousness?
For what its worth, increases in the intensity of my exercise program causes sleep problems for me until I become accustom to the higher level of activity. In my case, I have always attributed this to an increase in endorphins which (according to my theory) causes some hypomania. But this is just my layman's explanation that I use to make sense out of my world. It comes in handy while I am laying sleepless in my bed becoming more angry by the minute ruminating about the fact that my inability to get to sleep is going to make me very unproductive and uncomfortable the next day.
If I had not been lifting weights on a regular basis, and then lifted at 6 pm, it’s almost guaranteed that I would have a difficult time getting to sleep. I have to ramp up my exercise program gradually and consistently over an extended period of time.
John, I know your situation is more complicated than the one I've described, but it may have some applicability. I have a hunch that ATP is involved either directly or indirectly in your exercise related problems.
-- Ron
Posted by JLx on April 4, 2003, at 13:48:15
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on April 3, 2003, at 22:36:55
Hi Johnj,
> Well I had a great 9 day run with Mg. I think I may have screwed things up just being so happy not to be down anymore.I know how tempting it is to think that way, but I think it's wrong. Why should happiness screw up anything?
>I have had problems working out in the past but I thought the Mg cured that.
What I've found to be true after magnesium was the answer to depression is that to STAY in a good place, I have to pay attention to many other factors. Making sure I'm not too acidified by my high protein/low carb diet is the latest. I was feeling "less well" a couple days and when I looked back trying to determine what was what and did some more nutrition reading, I recalled I was drinking lemon juice in water and cinammon tea (both alkalizing) before. So I made myself some vegetable broth (yuck!) and have been drinking both lemon juice in water, apple cider vinegar and cinammon tea throughout the day and it's worked. Or maybe it was also the potassium in those foods that helped. Can you tell if there's anything else besides the added exercise you've been doing differently just recently? How about glutamates in your diet? That was a previous bugaboo for me.
>I wonder what weightlifting does to the brain chemistry?
Here's an article about cortisol, DHEA and exercise. MAKING YOUR HORMONES WORK FOR YOU IN ACHIEVING YOUR FITNESS GOALS http://www.drdebe.com/fitness.htm
Another similar: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/3532/adrenalarticlegolan.htm
"Excess cortisol without the protective effects of adequate DHEA levels becomes destructive. Protein synthesis is inhibited and protein breakdown occurs. Numerous dysfunctions can occur in:
The nervous system: poor memory, poor concentration, cognitive disturbance, sleep disturbance, irritability and sometimes depression."
>Any idea on what type of doctor could help me with this? We have a university med center close by with an alternative medicine division too.
There should be someone there, I would hope, otherwise orthomolecular medicine practitioners, naturopaths, nutritionists, or even some more mainstream physicians who advertise a "holistic" approach might be able to help. Here's the "Find a Practitioner" page from WholeHealthMD. http://whmdpraclookup.wholehealthpro.com/startform.asp?Session_ID=General Here's one on orthomolecular centers: http://www.orthomed.org/links/centres.htm There are search pages on other health sites.
>I will not work out at all for a few days and see what happens.
Isn't the conventional wisdom for weight lifting every other day as a rule?
>Again, I read calcium is calming, but Eby's article paints it in a different light.
I think he's right with calcium=excitotoxin but the key word is "excessive", though determiing how much is excessive for each one of us may be another story. Article on excitotoxins: http://smart-drugs.net/ias-excitotoxins.htm Brief comment from USC Neurosurgery Dep't http://uscneurosurgery.com/glossary/n/excitatory%20neurotransmitter%20excitotoxin.htm:
"Excitatory neurotransmitters normally stimulate the release of calcium which in normal concentrations, is necessary for normal enzymatic and metabolic activities within neurons. Excessive excitatory neurotransmitter release stimulates excessive calcium release. Abnormally high concentrations of calcium cause increased activity of enzymes and metabolic processes that destroy structural and functional proteins that can lead to cell death."
Dr. Blaylock, who wrote the book "Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills" is a neurosurgeon. I haven't read his book yet. Had you been ingesting aspartame, MSG, or other forms of glutamates the night you couldn't sleep?
> How do I know how much elemental Mg I am getting? I am thinking of trying the Mg glycinate and malate but the latter is harder to find.
I just ordered Carlson's magnesium glycinate from The Vitamin Shoppe, as they have the best price I've seen so far.
Although I have had some days where I too was worried that my new "cure" was going to be short-lived, now after nearly 6 weeks I feel much more confident that I can determine what I need to do differently to keep feeling good. Hang in there. :)
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2003, at 15:05:05
In reply to Re: Magnesium » Larry Hoover, posted by jemma on April 4, 2003, at 12:21:54
> Hi Larry -
>
> Actually, in my case, I was deficient in calcium, due to hypercalcuria caused by my undiagnosed ndi. I supplement with both calcium and magnesium now, but in balance. My post was in reaction to the Eby site which seems to me excessively anti-calcium.
>
> - jemmaDoh! Sorry, I forgot about your special circumstances. I responded "generically".
Sometimes, when the science gets complicated, Eby and others will attempt to simplify things. What's lost in the process can be meaningful and important. I agree that making calcium a villain in depression is conditional.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2003, at 15:15:19
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone Larry Hoover, posted by disney4 on April 4, 2003, at 11:40:49
> Hi Larry,
>
> Could you help me to interpret this article on glycine?Frankly, I don't think that article really offers much useful information. Maybe the following abstract is more to the point?
J Clin Psychopharmacol 1999 Dec;19(6):506-12
Beneficial effects of glycine (bioglycin) on memory and attention in young and middle-aged adults.
File SE, Fluck E, Fernandes C.
Psychopharmacology Research Unit, United Medical and Dental Schools of Guy's and St Thomas' Hospitals, Guy's Hospital, London, United Kingdom. sandra.file@kcl.ac.uk
The N-methyl D-aspartate receptor complex is involved in the mechanism of long-term potentiation, which is thought to be the biological basis of learning and memory. This complex can be manipulated in a number of ways, one of which is through the strychnine-insensitive glycine receptor coagonist site. The effects of Bioglycin(Konapharma, Pratteln, Switzerland), a biologically active form of the amino acid glycine, were therefore studied in healthy students (mean age, 20.7 years) and middle-aged men (mean age, 58.9 years) with tests that measured attention, memory and mood, using a double-blind, randomized, crossover design. Compared with the young group, the middle-aged group had significantly poorer verbal episodic memory, focused, divided, and sustained attention; they also differed in their subjective responses at the end of testing. Bioglycin significantly improved retrieval from episodic memory in both the young and the middle-aged groups, but it did not affect focused or divided attention. However, the middle-aged men significantly benefited from Bioglycin in the sustained-attention task. The effects of Bioglycin differed from those of other cognitive enhancers in that it was without stimulant properties or significant effects on mood, and it primarily improved memory rather than attention. It is likely to be of benefit in young or older people in situations where high retrieval of information is needed or when performance is impaired by jet lag, shift work, or disrupted sleep. It may also benefit the impaired retrieval shown in patients with schizophrenia, Parkinson's disease, and Huntington's disease.
Posted by Ron Hill on April 4, 2003, at 16:07:06
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone » johnj, posted by JLx on April 4, 2003, at 13:48:15
JLx,
I'm glad you decided to stick around. The links regarding the cortisol/DHEA ratio are very informative. I've had my eye on DHEA for a while and, as a result of the articles, I now plan to get a saliva cortisol/DHEA test.
Thanks for the info!
-- Ron
Posted by noa on April 5, 2003, at 10:01:29
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone, posted by noa on April 4, 2003, at 9:46:13
I stand corrected on the cortisol question. THanks for clarifying.
Posted by beardedlady on April 5, 2003, at 16:58:47
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone » beardedlady, posted by johnj on April 4, 2003, at 9:43:17
I hope you are not upset because of me. I am very sorry. Please post again.
I bought the magnesium citrate and took 200 mg. at dinner time for the past three days. Last night, I slept seven hours straight--from 9:30 to 4:30. I didn't even get up to pee! I don't think this has happened more than once in years.
I hope you are having continued success.
beardy : )>
Posted by JLx on April 6, 2003, at 14:02:17
In reply to Please come back. » johnj, posted by beardedlady on April 5, 2003, at 16:58:47
Glad to hear that the magnesium helped! :) I've been insomniac most of my life and consider it one of the purer forms of hell. My first couple nights after supplementing magnesium I woke up an hour or two after falling asleep thinking it was morning. I would be totally shocked to see the time. I think it was that I was sleeping so much better in that hour or two than on more hours on Zoloft (which interferes with REM sleep, if I'm not mistaken, which cannot be healthy) that my body thought this is it, time to get up.
Posted by disney4 on April 6, 2003, at 14:47:01
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone Larry Hoover » disney4, posted by Larry Hoover on April 4, 2003, at 15:15:19
Your article was much easier to understand! Do you think that glycine could have an activating effect even though it is more thought of as a relaxing amino acid? I can't tolerate anything that would excite my brain chemicals right now. I am having some withdrawl problems from Wellbutrin and having a very difficult time relaxing and sleeping.
Posted by beardedlady on April 6, 2003, at 14:50:15
In reply to Re: magnesium, sleeping » beardedlady, posted by JLx on April 6, 2003, at 14:02:17
Eek! Well that's not good! I have not had insomnia until just five years ago, when I had my daughter, and all grief hell broke loose. But I have been trying to find good sleep since then. Serzone gives it to me, and I am glad to have it, but I'd like it to not be forever.
I usually awaken after two or four hours having to go to the bathroom, but I don't feel refreshed or good at that time. I think I get anxious when I awaken, afraid that I won't be able to fall back to sleep.
But the past few nights, I have had much sounder sleep. Last night I slept from 9:30 until what would have been 3:30, so a solid six hours. And then I slept another three.
I am quite pleased. Like anything new, I expect it to last about a week, but I will be thrilled if the success continues.
Thanks for posting about it.
beardy : )>
Posted by JLx on April 6, 2003, at 15:54:39
In reply to Re: magnesium, sleeping » JLx, posted by beardedlady on April 6, 2003, at 14:50:15
One of the great things about middle age (or so I thought!) was only needing about 6 hours sleep as previously I had always felt that I absolutely needed 8. When younger, I couldn't GET to sleep early enough to get 8 hours when I had to get up early to go to work and would feel quite savage by the end of the work week until I caught up on Sat. Prior to magnesium, light therapy in the morning was the only thing that helped me get to sleep earlier at night.
According to the author of "The Cortisol Connection" people always need 8 hours sleep and the only reason we think we don't either "naturally" or as we get older is because that's a bad sign that our body has more cortisol.
I hope your good sleep effect lasts more than a week. It's been 6 weeks for me now and I was thinking today that I haven't felt good 6 weeks in a row -- where good was "just living" -- since I can't even remember when. I sure wish I had known 20 years ago what I've just learned lately but better late than never! :)
Posted by beardedlady on April 6, 2003, at 17:12:22
In reply to Re: magnesium, sleeping » beardedlady, posted by JLx on April 6, 2003, at 15:54:39
Good for you, six weeks. I'm only taking 200 mg. of mg. at dinner time. I might up it in a week or so, if I feel I should. Right now, I'm pretty thrilled.
I hate talking about it, though. I feel like I'm jinxing it.
Continued success to you.
beardy : )>
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 6, 2003, at 17:37:46
In reply to Re: magnesium, sleeping » JLx, posted by beardedlady on April 6, 2003, at 17:12:22
> Good for you, six weeks. I'm only taking 200 mg. of mg. at dinner time. I might up it in a week or so, if I feel I should. Right now, I'm pretty thrilled.
>
> I hate talking about it, though. I feel like I'm jinxing it.
>
> Continued success to you.
>
> beardy : )>I'm glad you had the faith to press on with your trial of magnesium. I'm even more glad it seems to be working so well.
Lar
Posted by johnj on April 6, 2003, at 18:47:44
In reply to Please come back. » johnj, posted by beardedlady on April 5, 2003, at 16:58:47
Posted by beardedlady on April 6, 2003, at 19:22:08
In reply to Re: Please come back. (nm), posted by johnj on April 6, 2003, at 18:47:44
Posted by johnj on April 6, 2003, at 19:33:02
In reply to Re: Please come back. (nm), posted by johnj on April 6, 2003, at 18:47:44
Hi Beardy:
I just wrote a long response and nothing showed up?? Well, I will try again, but will have to give the Readers Digest version.I apologize for snapping at you Beardy, I value your input and please feel free to always post suggestions, comments, etc., I have been very tired for the last few days. Grocery shopping took all of my energy and then I had to lay down for an hour. Don't know why, but I left work early on Friday feeling totally drained. Not a bad mood, just no energy.
I still have pretty good sleep with Mg and will just try to take it slow. I just felt so happy to feel good I wanted to do so much afraid that it wouldn't last. And maybe doing too much is what hurt me. Will I ever learn?
I need to check into the cortisol thing. I wonder why my pdoc never mentioned cortisol increase during excercise? I think you were right and that I maybe had a cumulative effect of cortisol or the type of work out, even though light could have elevated things to where sleep was interrupted. Sorry for being an ass, it was just a big letdown when I realized I couldn't excercise like I wanted too. I sit so much with work that my butt is sore and working out seemed to help. Now, I am not sure what to do.... take care
johnj
Posted by johnj on April 6, 2003, at 19:50:15
In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone » johnj, posted by Ron Hill on April 4, 2003, at 13:11:09
Hi Ron,
It has been a less than stellar few days, see my post to Beardy.> I felt so good on Monday so I lifted weights on at 6 pm and had a bad night sleeping.
<Please give me a little more detail regarding your sleep problems. Do you have trouble falling asleep when you first lie down or do you fall asleep initially but then wake up in the middle of the night and can't go back to sleep?>
This time I had trouble falling asleep and then woke up about an hour earlier. I rarely wake up in the middle of the night. If I do it is around 4 and then I half sleep waiting for the alarm.
<When you're having trouble getting to sleep, is your body tired but your brain is going full steam? In other words, do you lay in bed ruminating thoughts over-and-over in you mind?>
If don't fall asleep soon, I will start to ruminate. Generally, I do that much more when I wake up early. I find trouble spots in life or work and then play them over. After I started Mg when I woke up in the morning, for ex, Saturday I would stay in bed for awhile, but not ruminate in a bad sense just lay there and enjoy the time in bed.
<When you finally get to sleep, do you sleep soundly or do you merely doze near the edge of consciousness?>
This happens in the morning if I wake up early, but I have had it sometimes at night, but rarely. I did have it last year where it seemd like I was like what you described on several nights and I was beat in the morning.
<For what its worth, increases in the intensity of my exercise program causes sleep problems for me until I become accustom to the higher level of activity. In my case, I have always attributed this to an increase in endorphins which (according to my theory) causes some hypomania. But this is just my layman's explanation that I use to make sense out of my world. It comes in handy while I am laying sleepless in my bed becoming more angry by the minute ruminating about the fact that my inability to get to sleep is going to make me very unproductive and uncomfortable the next day.>
Man, the next day fear is horrible. I have felt like I was not going to make it through the day or die or something. Being unproductive, especially, with the friction in my section , makes for a bad day.
<If I had not been lifting weights on a regular basis, and then lifted at 6 pm, it’s almost guaranteed that I would have a difficult time getting to sleep. I have to ramp up my exercise program gradually and consistently over an extended period of time.>
I am almost thinking of going down in the morning and just doing one excercise, maybe two sets, and see what happens.
<John, I know your situation is more complicated than the one I've described, but it may have some applicability. I have a hunch that ATP is involved either directly or indirectly in your exercise related problems.>
I had problems in that past, but I could go 3 months before hitting a wall. Now, it seems like I can't do anything without upsetting the balance. In fact, my most recent fall, about 1.5 years ago, was after I ramped up my jogging program to where I was going 13 to 15 minutes straight. This was also 2 months after I had pnuemonia. My doc doesn't seem too concerned, but I told him excercise is how I help myself and it is frustrating not being able to do that. I just wish I knew how or where to do to figure what is happening because it is definately biologically based. Somehting just isn't shutting off letting my body relax and repair. Too bad the CRH drugs are far off.....
Thanks for your help Ron, I appreciate it.-- Ron
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