![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 229 to 253 of 479. Go back in thread:
Posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 15:33:50
In reply to Re: Another thing Barbara Cat » Roo, posted by BarbaraCat on September 19, 2002, at 15:12:24
> You breasts are sore? That's a giveaway. Sure
sounds like hormones to me, and progesterone
seems higher in proportion to estradiol. Are
you cycling normally? Are you currently on
birth control pills???????No--I'm not on any medication whatsoever...maybe it's just
early PMS...I have no idea....I think my mood swings might
be after I ovulate? It's never a clear cut pattern though, so
it's hard to say for sure...
So you think it sounds like I may have too much progesterone?What's the G.I.
stuff? Constipation or diarreah?
Kind of a weird combination of both. Like I said, I've always
been fine in that area until Zoloft screwed me up and I haven't
gotten back to normal since then.
Either one is blow to your health. It truly
sounds like you've got multiple health issues
going on that are contributing to neurological
insults. I truly know the frustration and
desperation you must be going through.
I know how utterly pissed off at life and
yourself you must be feeling.
Oh yes, yes, yes, baby. That is it. I feel like tearing my
hair out I'm so angry. I was on antidepressant meds
for 8 years before I stopped recently....maybe my whole system
is just screwed up and doesn't know what to do with itself now.
Or maybe some of these physical symptoms are just symptoms of
depression. I just don't know. Not knowing really is frustrating.But it's clear from what you've related that
you - are - ill!!! Maybe things will resolve
themselves, but in the meantime, get as
knowlegeable as you can on the subjects
that you intuitively feel you need to know.
I have been. I'm on the internet all the time researching
this stuff. I'm obsessed. I probably need to think about
it a little less in fact. I feel ill. Something aint right.
But it's a relatively new thing and it's connected to going
off ad's and being on the wrong ad's, I think. Or misdiagnosed
depression that's actually a hormonal thing. Oh yeah, I had
an ovary removed at 15. All doctors say that this shouldn't
make any difference in my hormonal stuff...that the other one just
takes over. My ovaries tend to produce cysts, but I don't have
the symptoms of polycystic ovary disease (or the high testosterone
levels...my testosterone levels are a little low...I figure that's from
being on ssri's for so long).More and more avenues and paths and answers
will become evident as you rebuild your health
and energy.I just have to have faith...that the right thing will come
to me if I keep my eyes and ears open....even this thread
has helped to look at yet another level.
>
>
Posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 15:47:49
In reply to Re: Alternatives » Roo, posted by BarbaraCat on September 19, 2002, at 14:54:03
play a big part in it, but it leads back to where did they go out of whack in the first place. Alot of theories about toxins in our environment acting as neuro-modulators and hormonal disruptors. You asked about testing and that also is a very controversial subject. Hormones ebb and flow, especially in a menstruating woman, so blood work should be done at least twice during the month. What the tests measure is the serum, or blood levels of circulating hormones, however, they don't measure how and if the hormones are binding efficiently on a cellular level. Many substances are molecular mimickers of hormones and fit in the receptor site enough to block the real hormones from binding, but the fit isn't close enough to signal the cell's response. So you can have plenty of hormones circulating in the blood serum, whether estrogen, progestin, thyroid, androgens, insulin, glucagon, whatever, but if they're not able to effect a cellular response, it's like starving in the midst of plenty. The pituitary is the master gland in all this, so it's likely that
this is where it begins. That's good news,
but it doesn't help since there isn't a way
to 'fix' a dysfunctional pituitary that anyone
knows about at this time.
Damn Barbara Cat--you've become very knowledgable...you might
have found your true calling! Alternative medicine....ever thought
of helping others, (once you've helped yourself that is)....
been following a version of The Zone diet just
recently and it's been pretty amazing in how
better I feel. If you suspect you have a
condition linked to low blood sugar and the
resultant insulin spikes then a good nutritionally
oriented doctor or practitioner who REALLY
knows what they're doing is the first step
. Really, when you think of it, we have no
control over anything in our lives except
what we put into our bodies. Eating a high
carbo and sugar diet is the first place to
look and start finding ways to control it.
It's not easy cause it becomes like a drug.Not eating sugar helps....but it's still not enough...I've
eaten high protein low carb before and it does help...but
again, it's not enough. It doesn't totally solve the problem,
unfortunately. You are probably right, I've got multiple
things going on.
>
> You say you don't want to go back to ADs.
Perhaps as a stop gap until other systems get
under control?I'm thinking, unfortunately, that I might have to do that....
simply because I've been feeling rock bottom bad for 5 months
now and I can't take much more....Now, if I make that decision, I
have to work really hard not to feel like a "failure" and like
all this time (and money) spent on the alternative stuff wasn't in
vain, and that it will "Never" happen for me, I'll just have to be
on AD's "for the rest of my life", and all those dooming sorts of
thoughts. But I am heartbreakenly disappointed....I really am...to
think of going back to the AD's....scared too...sometimes I think they are
making me worse in the long run, and I hate to think of the toxicity...but
the altnerative (feeling in mental hell) just can't do that much longer...just can't.You asked how long it took.
It's been about 1 month since I started seeing
him and getting intense treatments.
I'm down to 7 mg of Remeron and have
reduced the other meds considerably.
I'm feeling alot better, but keeping my
fingers crossed. Oh well, I'll take what
I can get - a few good days now is better
than the constant misery of before.
That's great...what sort of intense treatments are you
getting? A month is a good amount of time....I remember
your posts from the old days and i rememeber how miserable
you were....I am glad you are getting relief....Thanks
for taking the time to write such thoughtful and knowledgable
posts to me--I really appreciate it.
Posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 15:49:52
In reply to Roo Re: Alternatives, posted by McPac on September 19, 2002, at 14:45:34
>
> >>>>>>>>Try to lay off the sugar Roo...it's a
definite "no-no".
> Don't feel bad about needing the meds Roo
....I know that I have to have them.
I may, possibly, be going to the Pfeiffer
Treatment Center...will report back if I
do decide to go there.
Thanks.......I'm going to try not to beat myself up if
I go back on (and I probably will...I'm just too miserable)...
but it's disappointing after all the time, energy, money and hope
put into the acupuncture, etc.
>
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2002, at 16:20:14
In reply to Re: Alternatives, posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 15:47:49
>
> Not eating sugar helps....but it's still not enough...I've
> eaten high protein low carb before and it does help...but
> again, it's not enough. It doesn't totally solve the problem,
> unfortunately.Please excuse my interruption, but are you saying that low carb diets help with mood disorders? My few ventures with them have left me so angry and unpleasant that my husband has forbidden me to ever go on one again. I'm not a particularly angry person, but on high protein, low carb diets I spit nails at anyone who even looks at me. It's like some demon takes over, a huge reaction. Not just irritability. Is it because I didn't stick with it long enough?
Dinah
Posted by Jill on September 19, 2002, at 16:21:30
In reply to Re: OCD/Catholicism article » Jill, posted by johnj on September 19, 2002, at 15:30:11
John,
I am so sorry if I offended you. I have a very close priest friend and my father was originally going to be a priest (was in the seminar before meeting my mom). I was actually approached by the nun at our church to consider becoming a nun when I was younger. I know many people find great comfort in the church.
For me, with my OCD, mass actually became quite difficult. I confided in my priest friend about it, and he was very supportive and understanding. He's talked to many people with OCD. There is a great deal of guilt for the thoughts you have when you have OCD--mine were very anti-God...which really disturbed me because that's not how I really feel. With OCD, you tend to obsess on fleeting thoughts that others would dismiss...and you obsess on thoughts that are disturbing to you (like harming someone you love, hating God), when that's really not YOU. It's maybe hard to understand.
Going to church actually increased my negative thoughts...which was really painful...and the more I tried to stop the negative thoughts, the more they were there. It was very heartbreaking for me.
I am glad that the Catholic church is a positive force in your life. I, too, appreciate that those in the clergy are under a great deal of stress. I work in a medical/counseling profession and know that having my fiance to comfort me when I'm under stress is a great help. I wish my priest friend had a partner he could turn to.
I'm sorry for offending. Please accept my apologies. I was only trying to use humor because humor has helped me deal with my OCD/religious obsessions. I really think that having a positive, happy communication with God and to be at peace is what I've wanted, and I've been able to have that more when my mind and heart are at rest and not obsessing. Prayer for me outside of the mass setting (retreats, meditation, yoga) and medically treating my depression/OCD has really helped me feel I connect with God and those around me more. But that's just me and not a judgement on any one else.
I know there is much good happening in the Catholic church (and other religions) and that those working in the church are so taxed. My friend has shared some of those feelings with me, and I don't know how he is able to do his job sometimes.
I am glad that the church is such a positive force in your life. Take care.
Jill
Posted by amy_oz on September 19, 2002, at 18:22:48
In reply to Re: Alternatives » Roo, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2002, at 16:20:14
Hi,
I have problems with reactive hypoglycemia too. I knew about it years before the depression/anxiety diagnosis. The best thing I've found (other than trying to follow a generally healthy diet) is to keep a ready supply of nuts, seed and dried fruits on hand. My favourites are walnuts, macadamias, almonds, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, dried apricots, apple, guava. This is after years of trying with many other meals and snacks (fresh fruit, muesli bars, biscuits, buns etc etc). The dried fruit and nuts are the only thing that stops the severe mood swings, shaking and spaciness that comes for me just a few hous after the last meal. The fruit and nuts generally have a low rating on the glycemic index.By the way reactive hyplgycemia is apparently due not to severly low blood sugar but having a sensitive adrenal system. The 'fight or flight' syndrome over reacting and kicking in when blood sugar hasn't really reached a dangerous level. From here theres obvious links to anxiety, depression etc etc.
I hope this helps,
Amy
Posted by johnj on September 19, 2002, at 19:08:07
In reply to Re: OCD/Catholicism article, posted by Jill on September 19, 2002, at 16:21:30
Jill,
I learned something I did not know about OCD today, thank you. I suffer from depression and at times very very severe anxiety. I do think that if the church cannot get you with love they try with guilt. I am glad you have found the comfort and meds you need. take care
johnj
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2002, at 20:32:16
In reply to Re: Alternatives, posted by amy_oz on September 19, 2002, at 18:22:48
>
> By the way reactive hyplgycemia is apparently due not to severly low blood sugar but having a sensitive adrenal system. The 'fight or flight' syndrome over reacting and kicking in when blood sugar hasn't really reached a dangerous level. From here theres obvious links to anxiety, depression etc etc.
>
> I hope this helps,
> AmyWow. That is fascinating. It's something I really hadn't thought of before, but now that I do think of it, it makes a lot of sense. I have a habit of skipping meals, and I might be causing some of my own mood problems. It all fits, really. That was very helpful to me, and I'll try to start eating even when I'm not hungry to see if it makes a difference.
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by Jill on September 19, 2002, at 23:06:42
In reply to Re: OCD/Catholicism article » Jill, posted by johnj on September 19, 2002, at 19:08:07
John,
Thanks for writing back. I was feeling badly I'd made you feel bad. I feel so much better now. Now I can sleep :).
God bless you, and my sincere best wishes. I, too, received counseling from my priest friend, Daniel, at one of my lowest points, and it really helped. He was the only one that was able to comfort me at the time...especially since my obsessions had mostly to do with God and religion. I'm really happy I talked with him because I was feeling so awful all the time about my weird thoughts...trying to suppress them because they'd freak me out. Of course, with OCD, the more you suppress thoughts, the more prevalent those thoughts become. I thought I was totally terrible, evil, and nutso. Another counselor and a psychiatrist also helped me to understand what OCD is (it's not just people washing their hands all the time), which also made me feel less guilty and wacky. OCD is insidious since you always seem to obsess on the thing that's most terrible to you. For me that was obsessing about being against God and hurting people I really love. (Luckily I have only a mild-moderate case. I met a man once who lived in fear that he'd poison his wife. It was very sad and debilitating for him.)
I'm so glad you've found comfort too. It really helped me when my friend Daniel reassured me about my OCD that "It's not personal...it's plumbing"...meaning that I should not feel guilty for the OCD thoughts. He said he knew grandmothers with OCD that wouldn't hold their grandchildren because they lived in fear that they'd harm them.
He said that he (and everyone) has crazy thoughts. He said, though, that people with OCD can't let them go...unlike people without OCD. He said that he's had fleeting thoughts like "Oh, this little kid is sitting on my lap...I could choke her." But then, he realizes that's just a weird thought and it goes away. He knows it doesn't mean he wants to do it.
For me (and others with OCD), when I have those thoughts, I have to repeat "good" thoughts over and over to kind of "erase" the bad thought. Like a personal ritual to neutralize the thought. I know it sounds weird, but that's what it's like...or having to count in a pattern or kiss my fiance 3 times...although he doesn't seem to mind that ;). However, luckily, with medication, it's much easier for me to brush those weird thoughts aside. My finance and I even talk about OCD moments (he doesn't have OCD, but does have weird thoughts at times and then tells me about them and I feel better).
My friend Daniel said that God was sad that I felt so much pain and wanted me to feel comforted and loved. That really helped me.
Be well, and thank you for writing back. I hope you have a restful and happy weekend.
Jill
Posted by LyndaK on September 19, 2002, at 23:14:18
In reply to Jill, re: Remeron Anxiety, posted by McPac on September 19, 2002, at 15:27:18
> Jill, did you have any anxiety problems before starting your Remeron? I've heard many say that Remeron, well, 'sucks' for anxiety because it increases the norepinephrine (and/or) noradrenaline levels?
> Has it affected anxiety for you, either good or bad? thanks!I know your question is directed to Jill, but since Remeron is the only drug I'm taking right now and anxiety is one of the things it has been MOST helpful with, I had to respond. Remeron has helped me so much with the anxiety that I now know how really debilitating my anxiety was. I recently increased my dose to 60 mg. because the 45 mg. I was on was starting to "poop out". One way I knew it was starting to poop out was that my anxiety began to increase again. With the increase in dose my anxiety has once again quieted. But I realize that not everyone responds the same way to the same drug. It has been a tremendous help to me.
Take Care,
Lynda
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 0:37:15
In reply to Re: Jill, re: Remeron Anxiety » McPac, posted by LyndaK on September 19, 2002, at 23:14:18
I'm having an interesting time with reducing Remeron. I was up at 75mg and am now at 10mg. I've been sleeping alot and feeling very little anxiety, which is just fine with me. This is a big change from the speedyness at high levels. I knew about the changes in effect Rem goes through with dosage levels and I'm living it. For the first few weeks I was having the typical crummy symptoms from reducing an AD, but am no longer bothered by them at all. I'll be staying at this level until I feel the need to change.
I'm also going through an intense naturopathic treatment and am sure it's contributing to the overall effect. One thing is sure, I would rather go through the slow groggy dull form of depression any day than the godawful anxiety brand.
Posted by LyndaK on September 20, 2002, at 1:06:16
In reply to Re: Remeron Anxiety » LyndaK, posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 0:37:15
> I'm having an interesting time with reducing Remeron. I was up at 75mg and am now at 10mg. I've been sleeping alot and feeling very little anxiety, which is just fine with me. This is a big change from the speedyness at high levels. I knew about the changes in effect Rem goes through with dosage levels and I'm living it. For the first few weeks I was having the typical crummy symptoms from reducing an AD, but am no longer bothered by them at all. I'll be staying at this level until I feel the need to change.
>
> I'm also going through an intense naturopathic treatment and am sure it's contributing to the overall effect. One thing is sure, I would rather go through the slow groggy dull form of depression any day than the godawful anxiety brand.
I hope Remeron doesn't go "speedy" on me! I'm much more functional when I'm calm. Jill had mentioned in a previous post about needing to cut her dose down periodically. I wasn't sure which way it was going for me so I tried upping the dose first -- that seemed to be the right thing since I started sleeping better again and I was calmer again. But more than one person has talked about the opposite effect with this drug. I'm crossing my fingers that this drug doesn't go bad on me because its been really good so far. It's not the cure for my depression but it certainly keeps me functional until I can gain a better understanding of the social issues plaguing me.I've been following your posts about the naturopath thing. I liked your statement about being a "healthy and physically fit mentally ill person" (or something like that). Certainly good health can ONLY benefit you -- there are no adverse side effects.
Best wishes to you in your search for health and wholeness.
Lynda
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 1:09:23
In reply to Re: Another thing--Barbara Cat, posted by Roo on September 19, 2002, at 15:33:50
Roo,
My husband was on Zoloft twice, both times for about 1 year. He never had physical problems while he was on it. You hear about the sexual problems on SSRIs all the time, but he was just fine. He was never impotent and in fact, I very much appreciated the delayed ejaculations. When he was coming off the second time, he developed stomach problems and a spell of impotence that never completely resolved (boo hoo!!) It took him about a year to get his energy level back and stomach problems eased.You only have one ovary. Well, it's true that the remaining one takes over, but as I understand it, the follicles on each ovary create an egg and that follicular stimulating hormone produced on each ovary at ovulation is what triggers the ebb and flow of estrogen/progesterone to prepare or slough off the lining of the uterus each month. You're ovulating every other month and your production of reproductive hormones is not on a typical cycle. There are sex hormone receptors in the brain and gut and not just the reproductive organs. It's possible that your course on zoloft tipped the scales out of whack. There are some herbs you may want to look at. Dong quai is a Chinese herb used to regulate female hormones. Chaste berry, or vitex, is another one. Many others as well. However, I'm sure you've gotten this rap from your acupuncturist. What does he/she say about all this? You say they're the best, but what are they doing for you or telling you? Are you getting herbal treatment as well as the needling?
I just realized that you may not want to dredge this up all the time, so please let me know if you want to take a break from it. I'm just very interested in hearing how things progress. It's all shouting 'hormones' to me and it would be gratifying and helpful to womankind to ferret out the root cause of this.
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 1:21:17
In reply to Re: Alternatives, posted by amy_oz on September 19, 2002, at 18:22:48
Hi Amy,
Thanks for your post! I've found that I've been craving walnuts and almonds lately instead of chocolate, so thanks for the validation. That's very very interesting about the adrenal connection with reactive hypoglycemia. I've known for years that my adrenals were fried and have worked with DHEA and licorice to help, but I've never made the connection with hypoglycemia. It makes perfect sense and explains alot about how the adrenals/cortisol are affecting the hormonal systems. I'm new to the reactive hypoglycemia school, having more familiarity with the glucose kind. If you can supply some links or research avenues to explore further I'd really appreciate it. I believe that it's the missing link for me. - BarbaraCat> Hi,
> I have problems with reactive hypoglycemia too. I knew about it years before the depression/anxiety diagnosis. The best thing I've found (other than trying to follow a generally healthy diet) is to keep a ready supply of nuts, seed and dried fruits on hand. My favourites are walnuts, macadamias, almonds, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, dried apricots, apple, guava. This is after years of trying with many other meals and snacks (fresh fruit, muesli bars, biscuits, buns etc etc). The dried fruit and nuts are the only thing that stops the severe mood swings, shaking and spaciness that comes for me just a few hous after the last meal. The fruit and nuts generally have a low rating on the glycemic index.
>
> By the way reactive hyplgycemia is apparently due not to severly low blood sugar but having a sensitive adrenal system. The 'fight or flight' syndrome over reacting and kicking in when blood sugar hasn't really reached a dangerous level. From here theres obvious links to anxiety, depression etc etc.
>
> I hope this helps,
> Amy
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 1:34:06
In reply to Re: Alternatives, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2002, at 20:32:16
Dinah,
Eating high sugar foods (carbs, simple sugars) will create a temporary increase in serotonin along with a surge in insulin. Eating high carbs and missing meals creates a condition of insulin resistance and it takes a while to balance things. Not eating carbs and going through a snit as you describe is pretty typical. It's the sensation of deprived serotonin, kinda like a junkie needing a fix (sorry for that analogy but can't think of a better one). Just stopping carbs is bound to make anyone snarl until you get your blood sugar and cellular insulin/glucagon stores balanced. You have to go slow, and eat protein and some fat if you're going to eat carbs. Amy's suggestion of nuts, etc., is a great one. Also, if you drink alchohol and eat another carb, like chips or pasta or bread or whatever, it will send your blood sugar into a frenzy. Gotta balance it with protein and fat.
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 2:10:19
In reply to Re: Remeron Anxiety » BarbaraCat, posted by LyndaK on September 20, 2002, at 1:06:16
Lynda,
What dose are you at now and how high do you plan to go? Remember that there's a lag time at each dose change so you may not feel the true effects until a week or so later. I felt a real kick in energy from 45mg on up and a 'brightening' effect. You may notice only a positive effect.Let me tell you about why I think the higher dose didn't sit well with me. My stress level is probably greater than most people's. My husband and I have not been working for over a year due to the bad economy in the NW, I'm sick with fibromyalgia to boot and become very ill at times which makes me and my husband worry about me. This means I can't work anyway and SS disability has been denied twice already (I'm working with a layer but it's still awful dealing with it and will be a year before I go to court on in). We're barely holding on and each month's bill paying time is trauma and intense anxiety as we empty out all our savings and IRAs. Plus we're also grappling with the IRS. For a while this past spring and summer the pristine land around our house was getting bulldozed, trees were getting crunched and the noise and destruction almost did me in. The rape of our pristine wilderness is breaking my heart. In short, I truly think I have more shit to deal with than the average bear. It may not be death and destruction but it's been very intense, and this kind of thing has been going on for a while (hell, all my life starting with an insane father). Although it's made me a very reslient and strong person, I never get used to it and eventually my perkyness turns into hysteria and hypomania, depending on the trauma that is ensuing. So I'm going to react to the anxiety component in a drug probably more so than is normal. Does this make sense? In other words, you may feel great on a higher dose. Plus, you can always use an anti-anxiety med when you need it. - BarbaraCat
Posted by Roo on September 20, 2002, at 9:17:31
In reply to Re: Another thing » Roo, posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 1:09:23
My acupuncturist thinks I might be going through
withdrawal/rebound from the last of the drugs I finally
went off of. First I went off a mood stabilizer (lamictal)...
that wasn't too terribly bad) then zoloft, then effexor (pure
hell on earth, I'm still amazed I made it) and now the last thing
is this navane. I was on a tiny, tiny dose (1mg) of
navane (an antipsychotic) that I had been on for 2 years,
although I'm not sure why because when my pdoc first
prescribed this drug she said "you're only supposed to take
this drug for a short amount of time, like 6 months or so"...I
was going through a crisis period and she was anti-benzo, so I
think she was prescribing this antipsychotic kind of like a
benzo...to calm me down. Anyway I took it for 2 years. A few times
I tried to go off it, but got really anxious, and didn't feel like
dealing with that, so I kept taking it, and she kept prescribing it.
I think I knew, on some level, I was addicted to the stuff.
So anyway, the nausea and nothing tasting right and the EXTREME emotional
lability (wanting to die, feeling like I just can't take the pain, really
intense...) have started shortly after I stopped that drug. It's been\
about 10 days. So I think I'm going to try and hang in there and see if
it subsides...because I've made it through withdrawal before...it's tough,
but I know if that's what it is, it makes it easier to hold on.I hope that's what it is.
I'm sure it's the zoloft that's screwed up my gut--I've always
had a really good gut before that--very solid and dependable.I'm sure I probably do have hormonal issues...I knew that the one
ovary had to have some sort of effect...thanks for going into that...
I'm not sure I really understand. I'm going to print it out and bring
it to the acupuncturist and talk with her more about the hormonal stuff.
I'm not sure what she thinks, Barbara...I mean she tells me, but I can't
really understand it...I'm kind of passive that way I guess...I'll have to
ask more questions and make sure I understand the answers. I know she's
working alot with my liver....Even if it is hormones...so then what do you do? I guess that's a
question for her. Yes, I'm doing the medicinal teas along with the needles.I thought about you getting a job scrubbing toilets to pay for all
this...(or joking about it)...I may have to do the same. I see the
homeopathic doctor next week...The initial appt. is, gulp, $250, but
it lasts 2 and a half hours, and after that, it's pretty inexpensive.
I'm really hoping I feel some improvement. And I'm really hoping that
this really intense emotional stuff lately is withdrawal. Please God...
Cross your fingers for me....
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 12:30:52
In reply to Re: Another thing--Barbara Cat, posted by Roo on September 20, 2002, at 9:17:31
Sorry you're going through this hell, Roo. I've been there and it's amazing we survive. The only thing that's kept me from doing myself in to end it all is the firm belief that I'd just have to come back and do it again. There's no escape, only lessons to learn one way or another.
You ask about what we can do about the hormones. Everything is so interrelated - the physical chemistry affects the mental and vice versa. An endless loop where there's no real beginning or end. One thing I'm discovering is the powerful effect food has and how food and exercise can balance overproduction of insulin and energy/oxygen transport in and out of our muscles. A good place to start is to read "The Zone" by Barry Sears and to get the cook book and follow the diet and exercise ideas. It's amazing stuff. There are newer books on the subject of balancing protein, carbs and fats, but he is the father of it and the best place to start. He's very thoroughly researched how food is the entrance point into that loop I spoke about and how what and how we eat controls the 'pre'-hormones that control the pituitary, which is the 'master gland' for everything. You'll understand why binging on sweets is bringing you down.
This is where it starts, Roo. I don't believe any drug or energetic therapy we do will hold for long if we're not balancing our 'fuel' intake. Your acupuncturist sounds right-on to be working on your liver meridian. That's anger, depression and emotional energetics.
I've come to think of this food thing as trying to get your car to run better by putting fuel additives and gunk cleaner into the gastank. But nothing is going to work if you're putting diesel fuel into the tank when you need high octane unleaded! Put in the right fuel and the STP can do it's job properly. I've been following this diet for 2 weeks and can definitely see and feel the difference. But again, Dr. Sears is a starting point. There may be newer books on the same science of balancing protein/carbs/fats.
Posted by Jill on September 20, 2002, at 16:05:08
In reply to Re: Jill, re: Remeron Anxiety » McPac, posted by LyndaK on September 19, 2002, at 23:14:18
Hi again!
For me, the Remeron really DECREASED my OCD/anxiety stuff...like way down. At 45mg I feel very happy, calm (overall...but deal with regular stress like everyone else) and sleep well. Don't forgot that histamine is increased with this drug too...that's why it helps you sleep...but I also think it helps to calm you down. Plus, the increase of serotonin helps you feel better. You can control the amount of NE by adjusting your dose...it's more activated at higher doses.
That's why I "tweak" my meds (with doc's approval) every couple months and take slightly less for a few days. My body rhythm/reaction to this drug seems to be that after about 3 months at 45mg, I start to have a little trouble sleeping (more tossing and turning before settling down...restless leg stuff). However, by just lowering a bit for a few days, I get more histamine and less NE (at least how I understand it) and then can sleep fine (I go up again after a few days to my regular dose...knowing that it takes a few days for the lag of the switch to catch up).
My sister (who seems to have a similar biology/thought processes) is also much calmer and happier on this drug. Docs like it because it helps with sleep/anxiety and doesn't cause the SSRI side-effect profile (my sister took Prozac for ONE DAY and stopped because she felt like she was on speed or something. I took Prozac for 9 months, but I just didn't like the sleep/sexual side effect problems).
Hope this helps. For me, Remeron has been wonderful. Take care, and have a great weekend.
Jill :)
Posted by johnj on September 21, 2002, at 13:35:07
In reply to Re: OCD/Catholicism article, posted by Jill on September 19, 2002, at 23:06:42
HI Jill,
I am so sorry if my initial response made you feel bad. You have said some interesting things about OCD that is acutally part of my anxiety at times. Just stupid thoughts that appear to be my own brain trying to scare me. I would love to discuss this is more depth at a later date. I am not posting as much due to an exam and work is hellish right now. In a month or so I would like to bounch some feelings I have had and see if they are similiar. Like I said before if the church can't get you with love they use fear. I don't think it is like that as much now, but that is what a good friend(priest) told me so he said I should not feel guilty. Take care and sleep well.
johnj
Posted by McPac on September 21, 2002, at 14:39:20
In reply to Remeron Anxiety, posted by Jill on September 20, 2002, at 16:05:08
Jill/BarbCat/Anyone
45 mg. of Remeron has me "racing" too much---feeling too anxious, heart feels like its beating way too fast, feeling 'edgy' (is this that darned norepinephrine effect?).......I'm going to lower the dose....I was thinking of going down to 30 mg...but perhaps I should try 37.5 first.....how many days AFTER lowering the dose do you think the effects should take ("lag time")? I can't help but cursing Remeron's "architect" (the med's 'designer') for putting that damned increased norepinephrine effect in the med! I'd like to hire my very own medicine designer to TAKE IT OUT, lol!
Posted by McPac on September 21, 2002, at 14:53:57
In reply to Re: Remeron Anxiety, posted by McPac on September 21, 2002, at 14:39:20
One Lat Question: Re: Zoloft Withdrawal
Approx. how long does it take for the crummy Zoloft withdrawal process to end? I know it depends on various factors, but, from the time you take your last Zoloft tablet, about how long do those withdrawal symptoms last for? Anybody, from your experiences?
Posted by LyndaK on September 21, 2002, at 18:20:36
In reply to Re: Remeron Anxiety » LyndaK, posted by BarbaraCat on September 20, 2002, at 2:10:19
Barbara,
Thanks for putting things in perspective. :(
I see why your anxiety is so high. It seems like you're doing as well as anyone possibly could!! I certainly hope your situation turns around in some way soon. You've been under major stress for WAY too long. That would take its toll on anyone.
You're now officially included in my prayers (for peace-of-mind if nothing else). :)
Lynda
Posted by LyndaK on September 21, 2002, at 18:38:53
In reply to Re: Remeron Anxiety, posted by McPac on September 21, 2002, at 14:53:57
> One Lat Question: Re: Zoloft Withdrawal
>
> Approx. how long does it take for the crummy Zoloft withdrawal process to end? I know it depends on various factors, but, from the time you take your last Zoloft tablet, about how long do those withdrawal symptoms last for? Anybody, from your experiences?I went off Zoloft at the same time I started Remeron, but I had already decreased my Zoloft down to 50mg a day (I think) so I really didn't notice much withdrawal. Zoloft was my "drug of choice" before switching to Remeron (I would NEVER go back to it now). I remember going "cold turkey" with the Zoloft several times in the past when I just got so fed up with the side effects that I couldn't stand it anymore. Zoloft withdrawal was NOT a fun thing! In fact, that's when I was most prone to suicidal thoughts. I WISH I could remember how long the withdrawal took, but I can't. It (thankfully) seems like a long time ago. I did best when I went off Zoloft with very gradual reductions over a long period of time. But then, you seem to be having a different experience with the Remeron than me, so I'm not sure my feedback will be of much help. But I'm wondering if the increased anxiety you're feeling is part of the Zoloft withdrawal? Wish I could be of more help.
Lynda
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 21, 2002, at 21:14:10
In reply to Re: Remeron Anxiety, posted by McPac on September 21, 2002, at 14:53:57
Hi,
I hope I can help with both your Remeron and Zoloft questions. I'm now down to 1/4 of a 45mg Remeron pill and like it SO much better than the higher doses. I just may stay here. The NE was too much for me also, mainly terrible anxiety with is the main reason I get depressed! I thought it would be a good perker upper but I guess I don't need NE. Life doesn't seem anywhere near as worrysome here at 1/10th the dose. I'd suggest going slowly, but not as slowly as with other ADs, so go to 37.5 and then to 30 after about a week. Rem's withdrawal is about the easiest I've encountered, but I still feel it with every decrease for about a week. I'm also taking 5-HTP 50mg three times a day and I think it's helping.Now for Zoloft. I was on it off and on for 6 years, going up to 300mg at one point which is very high. I went off very very slowly, reducing by 1/4 pill every 2-3 weeks. The withdrawal is not fun. I got the sideways elevator whooshes and electric shocks the whole time coming off and for 1 month afterwards and felt extremely volatile. It's like all the anger and rage got pent up for years and suddenly released. My poor husband got raged at much more than he deserved (welllll, he did deserve some of it). I don't know what to think about taking 5-htp during the withdrawal because I didn't try it for zoloft but I'll bet it would help. Definitely take extra high quality magnesium, calcium and B vitamins. - BarbaraCat
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