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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jannbeau on September 4, 2002, at 11:58:41
In reply to Re: Long term effects of Effexor/permanent, posted by Kat on September 2, 2002, at 18:08:56
> During withdrawal from Effexor XR (150 mg/day) I, too, had this swishing (or "swooshing")in my head accompanied by what appeared to be a momentary disconnection between my eyes and my brain, a sort of "dizziness" that seemed to occur when I turned my head; It seems associated with the balance mechanism in the inner ear or 7th cranial nerve (auditory nerve) or something. I also had a major increase during Effexor XR treatment of my ongoing tinnitus (my rt ear seems very sensitive to ANY medication that causes tinnitus or ringing in the ear). I figured this was the "brain shivers" or "brain zaps" I had read about. The swooshing effect only seemed to occur during discontinuation while I was tapering (tapered for about one month from 150 to 75 to 37.5 to 0. Stayed on 37.5 for two weeks, then discontinued) and disappeared within (if I can remember correctly) about one week of complete discontinuation of Effexor. I suffered only mild discontinuation syndrome, perhaps because I am older and already was dealing with some balance problems. I was able to stop rather easily. I stopped because I could NOT tolerate the side effects associated with taking the medication - namely, my total inability to stay alert and to do my job, no matter when I took my medication or how much or little I took. I took Effexor for only six or seven months before stopping. I was sorry to have to dc this med because I took it to control intractable pain and it definitely decreased my pain, even at low doses.
I've been on Effexor for about 3 years. I tried to wean myself off 2 times, going down to a 37.5 mg's every other day. It took over 4 months. But I get so sick, and the swishing in my head is a nightmare. I was totally off Effexor for 6 weeks, and the swishing or electrical current that runs through my head every coupls seconds, never stopped. I talked to my doctor about it, and I think she thought it was crazy to have that noise. I guess the company that puts this stuff out, failed to let docors know this. 2 weeks ago I went back on the Effexor just so the noise would stop. If I miss a dose, it all starts up again. Does anyone else have the same problem? I really want to get off this stuff.
Posted by jannbeau on September 4, 2002, at 12:09:09
In reply to Re: Long term effects of Effexor/permanent, posted by Kat on September 4, 2002, at 9:35:19
>Kat, how fast did you discontinue the Effexor? I somehow get the impression that going off too quickly (that is, reducing your dose too rapidly over too short a time) might extend the time you suffer from a condition some call "discontinuation syndrome" which may be what you are experiencing. Maybe if you discontinue very slowly the next time you can avoid suffering the "zaps"--?? I am not a physician nor do I know much about pmeds, but I've read a lot of these posts and have come up with this thought from what I've read here and other places. BTW, drug companies do seem to recognize and mention a "discontinuation syndrome" for various pmeds, seemingly most often the SSRI's (???).
Cheers,
JannbeauWhen I talked to my doctor about the brain buzz or swishing, she too thought I was crazy. I'm thinking it could be nerve damage. Ater 6 weeks off Effexor, no change, so I went back on it just to stop the swishing. Now, I trying to find another way to get off, for good!
Posted by Kat on September 4, 2002, at 13:08:49
In reply to Re: Long term effects of Effexor/permanent, posted by jannbeau on September 4, 2002, at 12:09:09
I tapered off this very slowly, over 4 months. I was on 75mg's 3 times a day. Towards the end, I was taking 37.5mg about 1 every 3 days. The buzz wouldn't go away. I certainly don't want to continue taking Effexor. Over the past 15 years, I've tried probably 5 different medications. This has been, so far, the worst antidepressant to get out of my system. It's like my body is so addicted, and the doctors don't understand.
Posted by Rusty Shackleford on September 4, 2002, at 14:08:23
In reply to Effexor ER and Zoloft combination, posted by butterfly58 on August 30, 2002, at 8:30:58
> Has anyone taken both Effexor ER and Zoloft together. Have you had success and what have you found in the way of side effects?
> My doctor prescribed both Effexor ER and Zoloft to be taken together. Zoloft by itself did not seem to help so he added Effexor ER 75mg. After over 2 weeks on effexor I don't feel any better but I have many side effects. I have Insomnia, difficulty waking up, extreme tiredness, "spacy" feeling shakiness, dry mouth, vision disturbances, absolutly no motivation, sometimes hyperness and other minor symptoms. Will these side effects go away? Actually I feel worse than before the meds. I feel no anxiety but I don't feel life is worth living.
>I have taken similar combinations.. I dont know what kind of mental problem you have though. If its basiclly panic attacks and the panic attacks and phobias are what is making you depressed then I would suggest you get a new doctor.
I personally go to Abbot Lee Granoff I can see him over the phone from out of state and hes the best doctor I have ever been to. I was about hopless until I ran across doctors like him.
http://www.drgranoff.com
Posted by DebraA. on September 4, 2002, at 14:34:49
In reply to Re: Long term effects of Effexor/permanent, posted by Kat on September 4, 2002, at 9:35:19
Sounds like we're all onto something with this brain stuff - swishing, freezing, buzzing - you can bet that if I could EVER prove that some sort of permanent damage has been done, I'll be the first in line to sign up for a class action suit. I can't believe that the other person still has it after 6 weeks! I've had it for four days and I feel like I'm losing it - six weeks? No way. I am so angry that I was not warned about this and I'm angry that doctors have the CONTINUAL NERVE to dismiss what's going on with me. How the hell would he or she know anyway? And do you think the medical company is going to step up to the plate on this stuff if it means paying out $$ to people, or losing future prescriptions? And what doctor is going to even get close to anything that might smell like a malpractice claim!
I know for sure that I've NEVER experienced anything like this coming off a drug - not even a powerful one like nicotine! I've been on prozac, wellbutrin, and serzone (and even one of the ancient drugs that was a precursor to all of these) and I have never experienced this. You can bet your $$ that if I continue to feel like this for 6 weeks, someone is going to hear about it.
I'd also like to say, that weight management is impossible on Effexor. I have gained some weight, and no matter what I do, it will not come off while I'm on this drug. Drinking or not drinking a glass or two of wine in the evening makes no difference.
Sorry if this sounds like I'm irritated, but after 4 days of hell getting off this drug, I am VERY IRRITATED!!!
Posted by DebraA. on September 4, 2002, at 14:44:48
In reply to Re: I can't stop sweating - can anyone help?, posted by sly on September 4, 2002, at 11:51:50
I used to take 375 mg of Effexor, 300 in the a.m. and 75 mg at night. If you scan down and look at the other messages, you'll see that I'm one of those people commiserating about my withdrawal ordeal with this drug.
Thanks for the heads up on the sweating though. I also noted that I would sweat more when I was conversing with someone - I'd get a little hyper and sweaty when the discussion got going.
My doctor ended prescribing Trazadone for me to take at night because I could never get to sleep. The whole four years I've been on the stuff I've had to take the Trazadone to get me to sleep at night. So I think that's just another side effect of the drug in your system for sure. Trazadone's okay, but it takes quite a while in the morning to shake the drugged-out effect from taking it. Have you ever taken some of that Tylenol p.m. stuff and felt woozy in the a.m.? Trazadone has the same effect.
Effexor is really weird stuff in my opinion.
Posted by butterfly58 on September 4, 2002, at 15:35:18
In reply to Re: Effexor ER and Zoloft combination, posted by Rusty Shackleford on September 4, 2002, at 14:08:23
The Effexor & Zoloft combination was for anxiety (not panic attacks) and depression. Zoloft by itself didn't work. Adding Effexor worked but I had all those side effects and I had no motivation to do anything. Right now I quit taking the zoloft and most of the side effects went away. I think I have a serotonin overload or something like that. I was reading about that when I decided that maybe I didn't need both meds.
When I stopped taking Zoloft, almost all of the side went away. I still have some , but nothing like I had. I am also thinking about not taking the effexor because of all the talk about withdrawl on this site. I have only been taking 75mg for about 3 weeks and I figure that is not long enough to have all the withdrawl effects. There must be a better med out there somewhere.
Posted by rumbera on September 4, 2002, at 23:54:45
In reply to Re: I can't stop sweating - can anyone help?, posted by rumbera on September 4, 2002, at 11:55:59
A follow up on my situation I have been down to 37.5 mg for the fourth day now. This morning I woke up and felt feverish and also very anxious of course I felt the "brain shivers" today and it does not matter that I get them every day I will never get used to it. Anyway I called my doc and told her my symptoms and she said I need to see a general practioner because I might have a virus that the ONLY withdrawl that I should have is some diarrhea and nausea. When I told her about the "brain shivers"(as I call it for a lack of a better word) she told me she never heard of that before and to get a complete physical and make sure that there was nothing going on that was preexsisting. I was outraged ,but now I know that I am not alone and that I am not the only one with these withdrawl symptoms. One positive that has come out of all this is that I have discovered my own strenght and I am going to overcome this. I would love to hear from someone who has gone thru this and can show me the light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks
Posted by Alara on September 5, 2002, at 4:02:40
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by DebraA. on September 3, 2002, at 16:39:34
> Anyone out there remember how long it took to get past the awful withdrawal from effexor? I finally went cold turkey 3 days ago and feel close to psychotic. Will this ever end?>
I'm sorry about the long response, but I am hoping that sharing my experience might help some of you to get through the agony of withdrawal:Firstly, it will pass. I felt psychotic for around 3 days. For the first 48-72 hours I was having borderline paranoid auditory hallucinations. (Of course, I was terrified and never told a soul.) I even thought that I was developing paranoid schizophrenia - until I researched Venlafaxine Withdrawal Syndrome on the net and read the posts on this forum about Effexor withdrawal! Add to that the sweats, shivers, severe nausea, electric shocks, nightmares, lack of balance, nerve jabs, and countless other phenomena, and I wasn't a pretty picture.
A few days later, my psychological state progressed to one of moderate anxiety; a few days after that I felt only a little anxious. The paranoia was completely gone and I was amazed to discover my true self again.
It has been just over 2 weeks for me without Effexor and I am now feeling 100% normal. I'll admit to the odd inner convulsion/shock sensation, but even these are becoming less troublesome and more infrequent. I am sure that these will eventually subside.
My wit and intellect are also returning. (Well, at least I like to think so. :-) ) I have stopped sleeping for 18 hours a day, have a little more energy, and feel more motivated about solving my problems and finding a job. The most wonderful thing of all is that I cry at soppy movies again. I LOVE a good movie weep.
I have rediscovered the person who I was before antidepressants entered my life.
Effexor is an unusual drug. I wouldn't say that it is entirely bad - because there was a time that it actually pulled me out of a severe depression. It gave me the confidence to get on with my life at when I was at my very bottom. Yet it took away a part of my soul. When I look back at the person who was on 75mg a day of Effexor for almost 4 years, I don't entirely recognise myself. I was PARTLY myself. But another part of me was asleep.
Another thing happened to me while I was on Effexor: I became progressively dependent upon alcohol. At one point I was drinking 1-2 litres of wine every night and had little or no motivation to stop. I don't blame my alcohol problem on Effexor. But an interesting thing happened as soon as I came off the Effexor: I lost my desire to drink alcohol. While part of that was surely due to the flu-like withdrawal symptoms, I find it odd that I remain free of alcohol cravings 2 weeks after coming off the drug. Last night I was offered a glass of champagne and I took an hour to drink it. That was the only glass that I drank. And I wasn't even making an effort to control my intake.
Of course, my life hasn't become perfect over night. I now have to face the world again as a person who can be little too shy and sensitive for her own good at times. But thanks to the psychotherapy I've had and, in part, to the Effexor, I have developed the inner confidence to face the world on my own terms.
Yes, that's right. I said: "Thanks to the Effexor." You see, if I had continued to limp through life as crippled by social anxiety as I was, I doubt that I would be the confident person that I am today. The Effexor helped to take away my fear for long enough to help me to develop healthier interractions with the world. For me, that's the paradox. Is the drug good or evil?
I have taken a very long detour here, but hopefully my story illustrates the point: What you're experiencing is not particular to you; it has more to do your body's reaction to withdrawal from the drug. The withdrawal aspect will get better. Have faith in your ability to survive. If you hang in there for long enough, you just might rediscover your true, healthy self.
Posted by Alara on September 5, 2002, at 4:23:39
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by Alara on September 5, 2002, at 4:02:40
One more comment (if that's OK): After reading some of your posts, I realise that I was luckier than most in that my withdrawal recovery was a relatively speedy one. Yes, I came as close to hell as I have ever been, but thankfully I didn't have to stay there for long.
I completely sympathise with anyone who is coming off a larger dose and hope that your recovery is as painless and quick as possible. Keep your faith. :-)
Posted by rumbera on September 5, 2002, at 6:24:52
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by Alara on September 5, 2002, at 4:02:40
I KNOW THAT I HAVE WRITTEN ALOT LATELY BUT I FEEL THAT WE ARE ALL ON TO SOMETHING. SOMETHING THAT YOU MENTIONED BEFORE ABOUT THE DRINKING REALLY MADE ME THINK. I AM NOT A HEAVY DRINKER BUT I DID FEEL MORE INCLINED TO DRINK. BEFORE EFFEXOR I NEVER DRANK WHILE ON EFFEXOR I CRAVED IT.HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE?
Posted by sillyhead on September 5, 2002, at 6:52:01
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by Alara on September 5, 2002, at 4:23:39
> One more comment (if that's OK): After reading some of your posts, I realise that I was luckier than most in that my withdrawal recovery was a relatively speedy one. Yes, I came as close to hell as I have ever been, but thankfully I didn't have to stay there for long.
>
> I completely sympathise with anyone who is coming off a larger dose and hope that your recovery is as painless and quick as possible. Keep your faith. :-)Hi everyone! Alara, your post was very well articulated and appreciated!
Some of you may remember that I wrote a while ago about my insomnia and inorgasmia, which seemed to lessen as I adjusted to my dosage of 150 mg. (You may recall my excited message that I had an orgasm.) I currently experience the night sweats. I can cope with it, but it is sort of annoying when I wake up in the middle of the night cold, because I am lying in my wet bed!
In general, I am feeling a lot better about myself and I appear to be in remission from my depression. Today, I finally see a pdoc and I am greatly looking forward to psychotherapy.
Another reason that I am feeling more in control of my life, is that I broke up with my boyfriend of two and a half years. I realized that while I love him, we are not right for each other in the long run (i.e., to get married). At age 27, I feel that it is not fair to stay in a relationship if I know that it's not forever.
Anyway, I share these experiences because I think that a lot of my depression originated from staying in a relationship that wasn't right for me. I believe the effexor helped me bring that realization to the surface.
The biggest lesson I have learned is that I am still growing and I hope that the combo of effexor and psychotherapy will allow me to adjust my assumptive world and allow me to better my interactions with others and with myself.
sillyhead
Posted by J200 on September 5, 2002, at 7:25:19
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by DebraA. on September 3, 2002, at 16:39:34
When I stopped taking Effexor, my major complaint was a severe headache. I suffered with it for 6 weeks before it finally went away. Your mileage may vary, you may feel fine after only a week or two or the withdrawal effects may linger for a month or more. One more reason why I no longer accept prescriptions for SSRIs.
Posted by J200 on September 5, 2002, at 7:37:45
In reply to Re: Long term effects of Effexor/permanent, posted by Kat on September 4, 2002, at 13:08:49
I tried Effexor for a few months and had to stop it. Fortunately, I did not go through any of the more severe withdrawal symptoms that some describe, although I did suffer from the worst headache and body aches I've ever had which lasted for weeks.
I too have found that doctors have opinions as to what should or should not happen with a drug that are based on what they've been told or read, not on empirical observations. What needs to be done is to give a skeptical doctor a good dose of Effexor (or any other anti-depressant) for a couple of months, and then take it away from him. Watch how fast the withdrawal syndrome gets reported in the medical literature !
Posted by DebraA. on September 5, 2002, at 8:59:12
In reply to Re: I can't stop sweating - can anyone help?, posted by rumbera on September 4, 2002, at 23:54:45
You might consider printing out some of these messages and let your doctor know that these brain shivers are indeed a very big part of withdrawal from Effexor. It's ridiculous that she would dismiss this as something else considering the only thing different in your body chemistry right now is that you've reduced your intake of this drug. I'm on day number 5 now and I'm still "shivering" and "swooshing". So far it's not as bad and I feel like it's getting better (but not real fast that's for sure!). I still feel nauseated and still a little bit of diarrhea.
Keep me posted on your progress and hang in there.
Take good care of yourself right now.
Posted by DebraA. on September 5, 2002, at 9:16:56
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by Alara on September 5, 2002, at 4:02:40
Gosh! I really appreciate your lengthy response! I'm glad to see that this agony will eventually cease. There are so many parts of your message that I can relate to. Yes, the effexor did help me during a really bad time, but it certainly took away big pieces of myself that I've missed. My husband commented this morning that he was glad to "start seeing his wife again." Even with these withdrawal symptoms he can see the difference - can you believe it?
I'm also glad to hear about the alcohol piece. I used to be a "social drinker" and would go to Happy Hour on Fridays and enjoy a bottle of wine with my husband on Saturday nights. The past two years I had gotten to the point that I couldn't wait till 5 p.m. to roll around so I could open my "happy hour" wine. Happy Hour was every night, not one night a week anymore. I haven't had any desire to drink in the last few days - I chalked it off to the bad withdrawal symptoms, but maybe you're on to something here. I am truly hoping that once I'm past this, I can return to enjoying wine socially, but not as something I feel compelled to have every night.
Thanks so very much for your input!!
Posted by DebraA. on September 5, 2002, at 9:24:19
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by rumbera on September 5, 2002, at 6:24:52
You bet! Read my response to Alara who had the same compulsion!! I've had to practice "controlled drinking" since being on this drug - couldn't wait till 5 p.m. every day. I was NEVER this way about alcohol in the past. Plus, my doctor said I shouldn't be drinking - didn't stop me though.
Let me please reiterate that I haven't felt that desire in 5 days now. I've been off Effexor for 5 days.
Posted by DebraA. on September 5, 2002, at 9:29:17
In reply to Re: Long term effects of Effexor/permanent, posted by J200 on September 5, 2002, at 7:37:45
This is a very excellent idea!!! Make it mandatory that each doctor must first try out any drug they are thinking of prescribing! They'd be singing a different tune I think.
Posted by Robin David John on September 5, 2002, at 10:44:13
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by DebraA. on September 5, 2002, at 9:16:56
Debra ..I would like to give you a little advice ..tell your doctor that you drank alot over the last couple of years ..there are very serious side effects coming off any mind altering drug.And Alcohol is a DRUG. Some people would not admit that they have an alcohol problem because deep in our brain there is a thing called shame and guilt and the other side of our brain says I dont have a drinking problem..Please talk with your doctor about the drinking that you have done and the amount because there could be some serious side effects ..Nightmares are one ,shallow breathing and even stop breathing for well not a normal length of time while falling asleep or sleeping,..seizsures are another , loss of memory, convusions...There is also a withdrawl period that these symptoms could come.They could start in a day ,a week , month , year, and ever many years later ..This is called post accute withdrawl..Please do talk to someone about this ..it can be very frightening if it happens and you don't know about post accute withdrawl ..Not everyone has them ,I know about them because when I was taking the pain killers (Codine for a lower back and neck injury) I was also taking drinks of beer and wine at home as well and a hole bottle of wine is mind altering . I am still having some difficulty after 21 months ..Hope you follow up on this ..it may help you and then you maybe able to help someone else someday. Knowledge is a wonderful thing ..
Hope you suffer little while coming off the drugs that you have taken..(-:
Robin
Posted by J200 on September 5, 2002, at 11:14:22
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by rumbera on September 5, 2002, at 6:24:52
While I have been a weekend drinker for 30 years, it wasn't I started taking Effexor that drinking nearly destroyed me. I ended up in a hospital from an overdose of alcohol and Xanax a few weeks after beginning to take Effexor. I don't remember a thing about it. This effect has not occurred again since I have stopped Effexor. Yes, I absolutely craved alcohol while taking the drug. I stopped it after less than three months. I'm now back to my usual weekend beer-sampling pattern.
Posted by jannbeau on September 5, 2002, at 11:35:26
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by Alara on September 5, 2002, at 4:02:40
Alara, WOW!!!!!! Beautiful composition!
Jannbeau
Posted by madonna on September 5, 2002, at 16:14:09
In reply to Re: I can't stop sweating - can anyone help?, posted by sly on September 4, 2002, at 11:51:50
I had the same problem but it was cured with herbal medicine prescribed by Chineses herbal doctor. The medicine also cured my vivid dreams in the night. Hope this helps.
>
My doctor told me the symptoms were similar to menopause, something to do with the extra serotonin, my body thinks it's cold so it overheats to compensate - I wonder why it happens at night, I take my pill around noon, what time do you take yours?
>
> Actually, I've had a revisit of my insomnia, for the past week I haven't been able to sleep (due to work-related stress, not depression), so sweating isn't a problem, it only seems to happen when I'm asleep. It's weird and annoying, but I guess I can live with it, all my other symptoms disappeared over time.
Posted by beth b on September 5, 2002, at 19:33:35
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by Alara on September 5, 2002, at 4:02:40
hello all--
i just have to say "AGH!!"
this really should be common sense by now:i don't understand why people stop taking effexor cold turkey and then complain about the side effects. you shouldn't stop taking *any* drug cold turkey. it simply doesn't make sense. if you quit effexor abruptly it will suck. don't be surprised. we have already established the fact that quitting cold turkey feels shitty. why are people still doing it and acting like they're surprised?? it's like poking yourself in the eye and then crying because it hurts. DON'T DO IT!
i was on 150 mg for over a year and then i started weaning. the key word is *weaning.* first, i informed my doctor, then i told my roommates so that they could monitor me. i have been reducing my dosage every two weeks and i have had NO serious problems. i tend to feel a little nausea in the afternoons but it passes if i eat a snack.
effexor helped lift me from my severe depression to a manageable state. i was soo sleepy while i was on it and i was kind of numb. unable to cry. so i'm slowly ridding myself of those symptoms. i'm now at 37.5 mg a day and so far so good. if the depression relapses then i will just have to accept it and go back on the meds.
i understand that this life isn't easy and depression is no piece of cake. but for crying out loud, don't make ignorant choices and create more problems than you already have!! wise up!
(i mean no offense, i'm just trying to use humor to show how silly it is to do that!)
for what it's worth-
beth b
Posted by rumbera on September 5, 2002, at 20:50:45
In reply to Re: Weaning from Effexor - Nightmares, posted by DebraA. on September 5, 2002, at 9:24:19
Thank to all on your responses on the dependence of alcohol and it's relevence to Effexor. I too do not blame all of my problems on Effexor ,but honestly it is quite scary to trust drug companies nowadays. I was once on Serzone and as many of you now know there has been a recall on that drug. I am not trying to say that it was entirely bad ,but I know that this is not a miracle drug and that there is no such thing.
During this my fourth day of weaning I am rediscovering who I am and I got to admit I like the person that I am getting to know.I hope that everyone is doing better in their recovery.
Posted by Dinah on September 5, 2002, at 21:52:39
In reply to making wise choices, posted by beth b on September 5, 2002, at 19:33:35
I certainly agree that stopping any psych medicine cold turkey without discussing it with your doctor isn't a good idea. And I also agree that Effexor should be tapered.
But I did taper, and I still got side effects. I was even opening up the capsules, dumping out half and taking it every other day. And I think that's true for a lot of people. I'm glad you're having relatively few side effects, though. I hope it continues through till you're completely off.
Dinah
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