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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by zoe on May 6, 2002, at 8:28:27
In reply to Re: provigil jitters » Spongemomsquarepants, posted by fuji on May 2, 2002, at 13:35:08
I wonder if the effect wears off and people can eventually tolerate it. I started right off on the 200 mg/day and it was about day 7 when it hit. 6 days later, having not taken it, i am still waiting for the jitters to wear off, although it is better (maybe i have gotten used to it). and i can't eat either, although that is getting bettter.
Posted by Zo on May 8, 2002, at 1:26:48
In reply to provigil jitters, posted by zoe on May 2, 2002, at 8:55:42
Who ARE all these pdocs who start people out at high levels of meds? ALWAYS start low, for at least a week.
Provigil is great--but more is not better. It has a dose window. When you start again, begin with 100mg a day, or even 50. . .& good luck!
Zo
Posted by zoe on May 8, 2002, at 8:52:41
In reply to Re: provigil jitters » zoe, posted by Zo on May 8, 2002, at 1:26:48
> I don't think my doc had much, if any, experience using it. I probably should have done my homework.
I have not taken it for a week now and still have this weird, spacey feeling, like i forget where my limbs are in space and my brain is sort of half on even though i am functioning fine. Sounds v weird, i know. How long will this take to go away? I also still can't really sleep, i mean i sleep 6-7 hrs/night but i am used to 8-9. maybe less sleep is not all bad.
has anyone had great success w/ this drug?
btw, i am taking it w/ wellbutrin, could that be why it is so bad?
>
> Who ARE all these pdocs who start people out at high levels of meds? ALWAYS start low, for at least a week.
>
> Provigil is great--but more is not better. It has a dose window. When you start again, begin with 100mg a day, or even 50. . .& good luck!
>
> Zo
Posted by IsoM on May 8, 2002, at 12:39:56
In reply to Re: provigil jitters, posted by zoe on May 8, 2002, at 8:52:41
Zoe, I've no idea if Wellbutrin might be a contributing factor as it didn't help me. But I LOVE my adrafinil (one of its active metabolite is modafinil, the same thing as Provigil). It has the effect of increasing overall brain metabolism which may account for the 'spacey' feeling you have. As Zo pointed out, more is not better! You may have had far too much. And yes, the feeling does go away. Provigil (& adrafinil) has the benefit of having longer lasting effects than other pstims due to its method of action. When I've ran out of my adrafinil, the benefits last for a while, slowly fading away after a few weeks to nil.
And yes, you can sleep less on it & still feel great. I need 9, 10, or more hours of sleep to feel good normally. On adrafinil, 8 hours does me. I really like how I feel on it - normal!
Posted by zoe on May 8, 2002, at 15:55:41
In reply to Re: provigil jitters » zoe, posted by IsoM on May 8, 2002, at 12:39:56
wow, what a positive response. that makes me feel much more hopeful and less scared that i am going to feel this way forever. do you take any other meds? how long have you taken the adrafanil? did you lose weight?
Posted by IsoM on May 8, 2002, at 17:30:46
In reply to Re: provigil jitters » IsoM, posted by zoe on May 8, 2002, at 15:55:41
I started adrafinil around the end of November but have two spells where I've run out of it. I plan to take it (or Provigil, if my doctor will prescribe it) for as long as I can, or need it.
I also take 40 mg Celexa & 88 mcg Synthroid. I didn't lose weight as I'm not overweight. I do have a slightly better appetite on it & eat more, but then I'm also more active which counters the extra calories. I'm one of those where meds have little effect on my weight - I neither gain nor lose.
Here's a couple of my previous posts about my experiences with adrafinil & other stims:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020110/msgs/90421.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011222/msgs/88048.html
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 9, 2002, at 5:07:58
In reply to Re: provigil jitters » zoe, posted by IsoM on May 8, 2002, at 17:30:46
Hi IsoM, Zoe, Zo, Fuji & Viki,
I've been reading your posts on 'adrafinil' & 'Provigil' and excuse me but I laughed at it all the time! This is because I've been experimenting myself with 'adrafinil' and had already felt more or less all the effects you describe...
I think we are in presence of two stims almost as good as amphs but apparently acting more like caffeine without any addictive side effects! I've even discovered past weekend that one can go to sleep as previously without any sleep-aid, provided one does not take the pill(s) after noon time.
Let us only hope those 'rheumatism guys' at FDA don't put the foot on it this time...
Those of you who are on 'adrafinil' on a daily basis must however go check their liver enzymes after 3 months or so, those on Provigil are dispensed: this is perhaps why adrafinil is much less expensive than the other drug.Best,
Iago
Posted by zoe on May 10, 2002, at 8:47:21
In reply to Re: provigil jitters » IsoM, posted by Iago Camboa on May 9, 2002, at 5:07:58
so did you have the jitters or not? i am still patiently waiting ... hopefully waiting...that i can restart eventually at a lower dose.
Posted by IsoM on May 11, 2002, at 1:22:26
In reply to Re: provigil jitters, posted by zoe on May 10, 2002, at 8:47:21
Zoe, I never experienced any jitters on it (actually adrafinil) but felt a peaceful calm come over me around the 5th week instead. But then caffeine doesn't ever bother me but Buspar gave me the jitters instead of calming & relaxing me. Valerian root which calms & readies most people for sleep made me feel what many people feel on too much caffeine.
Posted by Zo on May 11, 2002, at 3:46:44
In reply to Your Provigil jitters » zoe, posted by IsoM on May 11, 2002, at 1:22:26
Iso!
How interesting! I, too, have the most peace and calmness of brain I've ever known. . .and to have this with alertness, a calm alertness, well, I think I finally reached Med Heaven. Or I should say meds.Zo
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 11, 2002, at 3:54:39
In reply to Re: provigil jitters, posted by zoe on May 10, 2002, at 8:47:21
> so did you have the jitters or not? i am still patiently waiting ... hopefully waiting...that i can restart eventually at a lower dose.
Hi Zoe,
I'm very sorry to have contributed (involuntarily, though) to this misunderstanding, but when I heard you saying (past May 8)
"wow, what a positive response. that makes me feel much more hopeful and less scared that i am going to feel this way forever. do you take any other meds? how long have you taken the adrafanil? did you lose weight?"
I (mis)took it as meaning you had past your 'jitters phase' and had 'entered' in the very calm enjoyment and 'relaxed alertness' (as IsoM so well puts it) that both of us feel (Iso & I) on it (actually on the 'adrafinil', at the very low dose of a single 300mg pill I for myself take early in the morning). I never felt any jitters at all either! The other meds I'm taking each day are 112.5mg of clomipramine/Anafranil (a TCA) plus 2mg of Xanax/alprazolam.
In my opinion you should see your pdoc and tell him/her the whole truth not forgetting Iso's testimony and mine (which is almost a carbon copy of Iso's). Perhaps something as simple as 1mg of Xanax, Klonopin or other could end those jitters that are 'devouring' you...
Who knows what such a overwhelming dose of 200mg
Provigil (perhaps worth 4x300mg of adrafinil--the two are maximal daily doses) can do together with the Wellbutrin which is by itself a stimulant? I should not rule out kind of a (hypo)manic episode or whatever it be.
So, to be on the safe side, go see your doc (I read somewhere these drugs are not yet well known in the US, most studies about having been published in French) and please keep us posted.I wish you the very best of luck.
Iago
Posted by SLS on May 11, 2002, at 7:00:06
In reply to Your provigil jitters » zoe, posted by Iago Camboa on May 11, 2002, at 3:54:39
> I (mis)took it as meaning you had past your 'jitters phase' and had 'entered' in the very calm enjoyment and 'relaxed alertness' (as IsoM so well puts it) that both of us feel (Iso & I) on it
> (actually on the 'adrafinil',
Hi.Just a thought...
If you look back a year or so, you will find posts regarding adrafinil by JohnL, who is doing extremely well with it. At one point, he tried crossing over to modafinil (Provigil) - twice. Both times, he immediately experienced uncomfortable anxiety, spaciness, and jitters along with a persistant headache. I don't recall at what dosage he started Provigil, so I guess it can't be excluded that his experience was due to his taking too much. He probably started at 200mg. He characterized the two drugs as feeling completely different.
Adrafinil is converted to modafinil in the body, but I am not sure to what extent. If the percentage is small enough, perhaps the steady-state levels of modafinil in the body equate to a dosage of something like 50mg. I really don't know, but if this is the case, I imagine it's possible that adrafinil is doing most of the good stuff while leaving too little modafinil to do the negative stuff. Again, it is possible that he started modafinil at too high a dosage.
- Scott
Posted by Jerrympls on May 12, 2002, at 2:43:51
In reply to provigil jitters, posted by zoe on May 2, 2002, at 8:55:42
> i started provigil 200 mg a day, added on to wellbutrin 200 mg 2x/day for depression/mixed social anxiety. the first few days were great, but yesterday i got the extreme jitters, spaciness, yuck. i stopped taking it for the past couple of days. i can barely eat. does this go away? has anyone had a good effect from this drug?
I tried Provigil starting at 100mg and eventutally moving up to 400mg. I was also taking it with Desipramine - while not exactly like Wellbutrin - you could say some general similarities. (However, Wellbutrin gave me terribly anxiety and panic). Provigil, at first, gave me some nominal energy - not speedy - just "gotta run some errands" type of energy. That lasted about a week. It boosted my mood only slightly and then tapered off--even with the dose increase. Then, it basically just kinda make me feel awake - just awake -nothing more, nothing less. Stopped it after a couple months. No withdrawl.
No real benefits. Perhaps it works for some people?
Posted by Lorraine on May 12, 2002, at 11:50:24
In reply to Re: provigil jitters » zoe, posted by Jerrympls on May 12, 2002, at 2:43:51
I take 25 mg a day to keep me alert and awake, some mood elevation, without the wired feeling. If it is making you jittery for more than the first week, you might try cutting your dose until you find one that works for you or you might find that even with cutting the dose it doesn't work for you.
Lorraine
Posted by Krazy Kat on May 12, 2002, at 12:13:41
In reply to Re: provigil jitters » zoe, posted by Jerrympls on May 12, 2002, at 2:43:51
For some reason Provigil makes me anxious and a little irritable at even a low dose of 100 mg. Also, my heart raced some and I'd strange mini-panic attacks. It did keep me awake, though. I never tried it below 100 mg...
Ritalin works better for me.
- kk
Posted by Emme on May 13, 2002, at 7:36:02
In reply to provigil jitters, posted by zoe on May 2, 2002, at 8:55:42
Hi Folks,
I tried provigil a while back at 25 and then 50 mg. I felt positively manic several hours aftr taking it, and then profoundly exhausted in the evening from the overstimulation. So I dropped it like a hot potato. I'm having a lot of fatigue lately and have been feeling depressed. My doctor recommended giving it another shot at a smaller dosage. Today I'm trying a "flea size" dose of 12.5, yes 12.5 mg. Or at least that's what I think I ended up with after doing surgery on the table with a pill splitter. We'll see what happens. I've got plenty of klonopin on hand in case it makes me too wired. (I'm also taking Lamictal and neurontin.)
Emme
Posted by zoe on May 13, 2002, at 8:54:39
In reply to Re: provigil -trying it out, posted by Emme on May 13, 2002, at 7:36:02
Thanks to all for your responses. This has got to be one of the best places to get real hands-on infor about what works for people and what does not.
My psychiatrist is a great guy, but most of the ideas for where to go med-wise seem to come from me. I'm from the US, and provigil is covered by my insurance, so I'm still trying to stay on any meds i can get that are payed for rather than going the overseas route.I know it sounds bizarre, but almost 2 weeks later those spacey feelings are still there, although they are slowly lessening. So maybe adrafanil would be a better answer, but I'm not ready tothrow in the towel yet on the provigil, esp if i could possibly cut the tabs in fourths and save some money as well.
i have to say, though, that i continue tohave hope for this drug, i certainly likeed the reduced appetite and increased energy.
Posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 9:39:16
In reply to Re: provigil -trying it out, posted by Emme on May 13, 2002, at 7:36:02
> Hi Folks,
>
> I tried provigil a while back at 25 and then 50 mg. I felt positively manic several hours aftr taking it, and then profoundly exhausted in the evening from the overstimulation. So I dropped it like a hot potato. I'm having a lot of fatigue lately and have been feeling depressed. My doctor recommended giving it another shot at a smaller dosage. Today I'm trying a "flea size" dose of 12.5, yes 12.5 mg. Or at least that's what I think I ended up with after doing surgery on the table with a pill splitter. We'll see what happens. I've got plenty of klonopin on hand in case it makes me too wired. (I'm also taking Lamictal and neurontin.)
>
> Emme
Emme,Interesting that your doctor wants to retry at an even smaller dosage, despite that experience. Let us know the result. I know the stuff is $$$$ as all getout, *so* if I could just take 1/8 of a $3-5 pill every AM I wouldn't mind forking out the cash. But, the main thing I like about it is once/day dosing, and no CII hassles with the pharmacy and my pdoc. It is supposed to be a DA reuptake inhibitor. Also, Zoloft inhibits reuptake of DA a tad (and I responded particularly well to Zoloft-motivationwise), but it just shreds my guts to pieces, so I am wondering if a tiny nugget of Provigil combined with the tiny nugget of Celexa I take (every other day) might work out quite well.
good luck,
Mitch
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 13, 2002, at 12:55:00
In reply to Re: Your provigil jitters, posted by SLS on May 11, 2002, at 7:00:06
Hi.
The more I read about the varied reactions to Provigil and the more I'm convinced that the two drugs, namely adrafinil and modafinil/Provigil are completely different drugs. Who would have guessed so after having looked at their formulae (only differing by a 'trifling' OH)? Worse still, the latter being a metabolite of the former...
So your reasoning seems to me both very sound and one worthy of further inquiry... And I'm afraid I will only take rest after I will have tried that substance (modafinil/Provigil) on myself...
Iago
> If you look back a year or so, you will find posts regarding adrafinil by JohnL, who is doing extremely well with it. At one point, he tried crossing over to modafinil (Provigil) - twice. Both times, he immediately experienced uncomfortable anxiety, spaciness, and jitters along with a persistant headache. I don't recall at what dosage he started Provigil, so I guess it can't be excluded that his experience was due to his taking too much. He probably started at 200mg. He characterized the two drugs as feeling completely different.
>
> Adrafinil is converted to modafinil in the body, but I am not sure to what extent. If the percentage is small enough, perhaps the steady-state levels of modafinil in the body equate to a dosage of something like 50mg. I really don't know, but if this is the case, I imagine it's possible that adrafinil is doing most of the good stuff while leaving too little modafinil to do the negative stuff. Again, it is possible that he started modafinil at too high a dosage.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by IsoM on May 13, 2002, at 14:35:47
In reply to Your provigil jitters » zoe, posted by Iago Camboa on May 11, 2002, at 3:54:39
Today, nestled in the mailbox, was my order of adrafinil! I started dancing about the room (despite my pulled rib muscles), singing to my cats. That made them all excited & happy & they danced about me too. If the neighbours could see me, they'd be convinced I was crazy. Wait... they already know that but think I'm harmless. :-)
Ohhh, I missed that calm, relaxed alertness. With my narcolepsy & the sore ribs, every time I'd sit on the sofa to read or watch TV, I'd be horizontal & asleep in a short while. My poor brain has only felt half-awake this last month or so. I needed a search feature for my brain, but then it would've probably wandered off & fallen asleep too. But my cranky gene was working full-time. Just about bit the head off of some of the managers at work for their stupidity.
OHHH! I'm SOOO happy that it finally came. Hope the effects kick in a little faster than they did before.
Posted by Emme on May 14, 2002, at 7:34:41
In reply to Re: provigil -trying it out » Emme, posted by Ritch on May 13, 2002, at 9:39:16
Hi Ritch,
> Interesting that your doctor wants to retry at an even smaller dosage, despite that experience.
Well, the dose makes the poison. I think sometimes people ditch a drug without first dropping the dose way down to see if that helps. Some folks here (like you ) only need a crumb of Celexa. I never went over 4 mg when trying Celexa.
Anyway, I guess she figured that if 50 mg Provigil made me too high, then some small fraction of that might just perk me up a bit. Easy enough to try I guess. Also, I'm on a different combination than I was last time I tried it. Day one was okay. I'll keep you posted.
I think we need a new term for taking flea sized doses....how about...micropharmacy. :) And if it's several drugs....polymicropharmacy!
> I know the stuff is $$$$ as all getout, *so* if I could just take 1/8 of a $3-5 pill every AM I wouldn't mind forking out the cash.
Ooh, your insurance doesn't cover it?
> I am wondering if a tiny nugget of Provigil combined with the tiny nugget of Celexa I take (every other day) might work out quite well.
I'd recommend giving it a try. See how low you can drop it and still get enough benefit.
Okay, now I could use some advice here from the Provigil folks. How long does it take Provigil to clear out of your system? One day? Two? Is the half life short? What I'd like to do is a "controlled" study on myself and try Provigil for, say three days, then not use it for 3 days or so. Is that long enough? I want to home in on exactly what effect Provigil has on me. The more detailed info I can provide my doctor the better.
Thanks,
Emme
Posted by Ritch on May 14, 2002, at 9:20:40
In reply to Re: provigil -trying it out » Ritch, posted by Emme on May 14, 2002, at 7:34:41
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 14, 2002, at 12:38:39
In reply to Finally Got My ADRAFINIL!!!! » Iago Camboa, posted by IsoM on May 13, 2002, at 14:35:47
Hi Iso,
And I'm SOOO happy that your package arrived in good conditions! If your suppliers are the same as mine they are very reliable people, only a little slow, so one has to remember to place the next order in time.
I can only say 'How I understand your excitement and your joy!'. I've been reading your 'old' posts on the adrafinil and I feel like reading myself, so similar are our responses to that remarkable drug. (Only you describe things better and more accurately than I can do...).
And now that your nightmare of 'half-awakeness' is approaching its end, enjoy every single day the bliss of living fully this only life we all happen to be allowed to live only once!All the very best,
Iago
Posted by Chloe on May 14, 2002, at 21:06:37
In reply to Polymicropharmacy! I like that..thanks (nm) » Emme, posted by Ritch on May 14, 2002, at 9:20:40
Emme,
Glad to hear an update about your meds...
I was thinking for all us microdosers, we should get an analytical balance.I think a jagged, crumble of a pill or whatever I find when I lift the pill splitter, is quite impercise. If I could take so many grams of a crushed pill/day, that I measured out on my balance, then I would be assured of proper microdosing LOL! Gee, I am sounding like a drug dealer...Isn't that what they use to weigh out the goods? Same thing, I guess, sort of.
Anyway, hope the smaller chip of provigil trial is a success.
Take care,
Chloe
Posted by IsoM on May 15, 2002, at 1:01:42
In reply to Re: Finally Got My ADRAFINIL!!!! » IsoM, posted by Iago Camboa on May 14, 2002, at 12:38:39
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