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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Will_Hung on April 24, 2002, at 20:27:34
Evening all,
Has anybody actually found Omega-3 fish oil useful for depression or, in particular, anxiety? I've seen 'evidence' for Omega-3 efficacy against depression on the 'net. I have SP with depression and have been taking about 2g/day of EPA for a month now. My anxiety has definitely faded a little, but it is hard to say whether the Omega-3 is responsible as I have also started being a bit more rigorous with the moclobemide (ie not forgetting to take it every third day). I'm trying to decide whether to continue with the fish oil as its a bit of a bind gobbling down 10 capsules the size of a small house each day!
Cheers,
Will
Posted by Bekka H. on April 24, 2002, at 23:12:32
In reply to Omega-3 fish oil anybody?, posted by Will_Hung on April 24, 2002, at 20:27:34
Hi. I read very promising reports about omega-3 fish oils for depression. So far, I can't say that it has helped my depression, but my skin looks better. Also, my veterinarian gave me some omega-3 oils to give to my cats, and it has definitely made their fur nice and shiny. My cats weren't depressed, so I can't say whether or not the oils helped their moods.
Posted by Bill L on April 25, 2002, at 8:12:20
In reply to Omega-3 fish oil anybody?, posted by Will_Hung on April 24, 2002, at 20:27:34
Since it has helped your anxiey a bit, I would stay on it one more month and see if you get more of a benefit. I think that for fish oil, one month is not long enough to get a full effect.
Posted by cmcdougall on April 25, 2002, at 10:24:33
In reply to Re: Omega-3 fish oil anybody?, posted by Bill L on April 25, 2002, at 8:12:20
Hi there,
I have been taking Omegabrite brand of omega 3 for about 3 weeks. Can't say for sure if its helping yet. I started taking 1.12g of EPA and have been taking 2.24g for 3 days.
The Omegabrite brand is very EPA concentrated so you don't have to take as many capsules, plus they are not too big.
This is the brand my psychiatrist recommended. The website is www.omegabrite.com You can only get this brand online, but surprisingly it is less expensive gram for gram than any other brand I could find.
Good luck.
Carly
Posted by JohnQ on April 25, 2002, at 18:12:11
In reply to My Pdoc recommended Omega 3, posted by cmcdougall on April 25, 2002, at 10:24:33
I think the problem is you guys are not getting enough EPA/DHA per day. It has been told to me by a nutrition expert (scientist in the area of Exercise and Nutritional Biochemisty) that the optimal dose is 6-10g EPA/DHA per day. If you don't want to take that many pills, a can of salmon contains two grams, and you should get about two grams per tablespoon of flax oil. Either way, up your dosage.
P.S. No, I haven't tried it yet, but I'm starting Monday.
Posted by Chloe on April 25, 2002, at 21:01:21
In reply to Re: My Pdoc recommended Omega 3, posted by JohnQ on April 25, 2002, at 18:12:11
I took 6 gram of fish oil for years. Nothing good or bad happened. I truly think it was a waste of money.
Then I tried cold pressed organic flax seed oil 1-2 TBS per day, and almost instantly I felt a lift in my mood. Over two months later I don't get that "elated" feeling anymore, but I do think it is calming in a general way. And it really makes my dry skin and hair soft. It also helps with the TCA induced constipation. All things I did not get with fish oil. I look forward to eating the FSO since it is so much more palatable and tasty (nutty flavor) than fish oil. And, no fish burps. :)C
Posted by Bekka H. on April 25, 2002, at 23:56:13
In reply to Re: Flax seed oil- Omega 3, posted by Chloe on April 25, 2002, at 21:01:21
Hi Chloe,
Do you take the 1-2 Tbs. of flax oil all at once or do you spread it out throughout the day? Did it really make you elated? I read somewhere that it can cause hypomania in susceptible people.
Bekka
Posted by sjb on April 26, 2002, at 13:53:52
In reply to Re: Flax seed oil- Omega 3, posted by Chloe on April 25, 2002, at 21:01:21
Did you purchase in health food store or mail order? Can you recommend a good brand?
Posted by Chloe on April 26, 2002, at 18:52:54
In reply to Flax seed oil- Omega 3 - Chloe, posted by Bekka H. on April 25, 2002, at 23:56:13
> Hi Chloe,
>
> Do you take the 1-2 Tbs. of flax oil all at once or do you spread it out throughout the day? Did it really make you elated? I read somewhere that it can cause hypomania in susceptible people.
>
> BekkaBekka,
I do think I got a nice euphoric feeling for about a week of taking 1+ tbs of flaxseed oil. But like all things that make me feel great, they never last! SSRI's, Lamictal both made me feel great, almost too great for a week or so. Then I am usually back to my low self. Until I pop up into hypomanic or hypodysphoria, (my favorite!) for no good or explanable reason. The only things that I know for sure, is if I feel good, I am going to crash eventually...BUT, I do think FSO is having a good effect on my body. And though I don't get the "high" anymore, I do think it calms or soothes my body in some way. Or maybe I just feel healthier eating it? Who knows...
But, I have incorporated the flaxseed oil into my diet. Usually I have it with dinner, but I really can have it any time. And I must say, the oil is so tasty and satisfying, I crave it now.
It is a very light oil (if you get the good stuff!) that you can add to things but you cannot cook with it (like olive oil, for example). Heat breaks down the fat into bad fats, so the oil has to go on top of things that are cooked like vegatables, noodles, breads, cottage cheese, etc or you can make it into a nice salad dressing.My favorite snack or meal is an english muffin toasted with a tbs of flaxseed oil dizzled on the toasted bread, with cottage cheese on top. It's also really good in yogurt + cereal. The nutty flavor adds a nice touch. And since the oil is so light it really doesn't taste "oily" or heavy in any way. I can see why people lose weight when they eat these essential fatty acids. They are very satisfying and make you stop eating and eating because of that unsatisfied feeling.
Oh, BTW, you can also take the capsules. I started off that way. But since I wanted to get at least 5-10Gms of FSO, I found it too expensive and a pain to swallow almost 14 capsules per day...I am glad I took the plunge! I was scared to each straight oil. But I am glad I did. The straight oil is what gave me that high feeling. Didn't ever feel it with the caps...
sbj,
I only use organic cold pressed FSO, that has to be refridgerated. I get it at a local nature/healthfood store, but they do have a website, so I may start ordering it on line. The brand is Barlean's, and they have other oils and products for sale as well (of course!). Their wbesite is www.Barleans.com.
Hope this helps!
Take care
Chloe
Posted by Ron Hill on April 27, 2002, at 0:57:44
In reply to Re: Flax seed oil- Omega 3-Bekka,sbj, posted by Chloe on April 26, 2002, at 18:52:54
Posted by cmcdougall on April 27, 2002, at 13:28:27
In reply to Re: Flax seed oil- Omega 3, posted by sjb on April 26, 2002, at 13:53:52
Posted by Ritch on April 27, 2002, at 14:09:45
In reply to Didn't think flax seed oil had EPA - does it? (nm), posted by cmcdougall on April 27, 2002, at 13:28:27
Ok,
I saw this thread and I thought-what they hey, I will just get all three bottles out and list what is on each one of them of the stuff I have anyway which isn't that fancy:
1) Flaxseed Oil 1G containing:
Alpha-Linolenic Acid 500mg
Linoleic Acid 200mg
Oleic Acid 200mg
Palmitic Acid 60mg
Stearic Acid 40mg2) Fish Oil Concentrate 2G containing:
(EPA) Eicosapentaneoic Acid 360mg
(DHA) Docosahexaenoic Acid 240mg3) Evening Primrose Oil .5G containing:
(LA) Cis-Linoleic Acid 350mg
(GLA)Gama-Linoleic Acid 45mg
From what I understand the "good stuff" is the DHA in the fish oil and the GLA in the primrose, and the ALA in the flax. Anybody, jump in and add and correct as necessary! I took all three today for the first time. I used my old non-enteric fish oil, and I didn't get any fishy burps (probably because my Celexa dose is at rock bottom and SSRI's give me acid reflux big time).Mitch
Posted by cmcdougall on April 27, 2002, at 15:10:28
In reply to Re: Didn't think flax seed oil had EPA - does it? » cmcdougall, posted by Ritch on April 27, 2002, at 14:09:45
to get any emotional benefit from Omega 3, you must get at least 1 gram of EPA. It is only EPA that has been proven in double blind studies to be effective.
Love and luck,
Carly
Posted by Will_Hung on April 27, 2002, at 16:41:33
In reply to Omega-3 fish oil anybody?, posted by Will_Hung on April 24, 2002, at 20:27:34
OH MY GOD I'VE CREATED A MONSTER!!!
This thread just keeps on going...
According to a number of sources on the internet:
Flax seed oil does not contain EPA or DHA. These are the good sh*t as far as the brain is concerned. However, alpha-linolenic acid (which flax seed oil contains in large amounts) can be converted by the body into EPA but slowly and only to a limited degree. This means basically that you would have to ingest HUGE amounts of the stuff in order to get the same level of EPA into your bloodstream.
I notice that many health food sites are promoting flax seed as a non-foul alternative to fish oil. While this may be true for the general health-related benefits of omega-3, it is not accurate to make that claim for the mental health benefits. If something works for the individual then by all means stick to it, but I for one will be sticking to my little fishy friends (for a little while longer at least).
Posted by JohnQ on April 28, 2002, at 14:59:47
In reply to Re: Omega-3 fish oil anybody?, posted by Will_Hung on April 27, 2002, at 16:41:33
> OH MY GOD I'VE CREATED A MONSTER!!!
>
> This thread just keeps on going...
>
> According to a number of sources on the internet:
> Flax seed oil does not contain EPA or DHA. These are the good sh*t as far as the brain is concerned. However, alpha-linolenic acid (which flax seed oil contains in large amounts) can be converted by the body into EPA but slowly and only to a limited degree. This means basically that you would have to ingest HUGE amounts of the stuff in order to get the same level of EPA into your bloodstream.Although it depends on the person, there is about a 25-35% conversion of linolenic acid to EPA/DHA. A tablespoon of flax contains about 7.5g's of linolenic acid, therefore you can expect about 2 grams EPA/DHA.
> I notice that many health food sites are promoting flax seed as a non-foul alternative to fish oil. While this may be true for the general health-related benefits of omega-3, it is not accurate to make that claim for the mental health benefits. If something works for the individual then by all means stick to it, but I for one will be sticking to my little fishy friends (for a little while longer at least).
Posted by judy1 on April 29, 2002, at 2:47:12
In reply to Re: Omega-3 fish oil anybody?, posted by JohnQ on April 28, 2002, at 14:59:47
I know I tried and I'm pretty sure Chis A too, I remember I stunk like a fish so I didn't go as long as I could have but bipolars out there, I'm curious how you're doing long term on fish oil? Take care, Judy
Posted by noa on May 1, 2002, at 15:16:40
In reply to My Pdoc recommended Omega 3, posted by cmcdougall on April 25, 2002, at 10:24:33
FWIW--I just read something about this at my pharmacist's. It said that brands that add extra EPA or DHA are less stable--ie can go rancid easier, so should be refrigerated. The doc writing the article doesn't recommend the kind with added EPA or DHA.
Posted by Leighwit on May 1, 2002, at 17:03:13
In reply to Re: My Pdoc recommended Omega 3, posted by noa on May 1, 2002, at 15:16:40
> FWIW--I just read something about this at my pharmacist's. It said that brands that add extra EPA or DHA are less stable--ie can go rancid easier, so should be refrigerated. The doc writing the article doesn't recommend the kind with added EPA or DHA.
I just put ours in the refrigerator since it has both EPA and DHA.
I'm wondering why, if fish oil goes rancid it doesn't have an expiration date on it and yet it's a major brand name. My husband and I take it for heart health, I didn't know about any correlations to depression treatment.
I think I'll start looking for brands with expiration dates.
Posted by Ritch on May 1, 2002, at 23:02:54
In reply to Re: My Pdoc recommended Omega 3, posted by noa on May 1, 2002, at 15:16:40
> FWIW--I just read something about this at my pharmacist's. It said that brands that add extra EPA or DHA are less stable--ie can go rancid easier, so should be refrigerated. The doc writing the article doesn't recommend the kind with added EPA or DHA.
Noa,
I know you can get refrigerated Flax Oil from a health food store instead of off the shelf. Can you buy Fish Oil that way as well? I suppose that all EFA's (essential fatty acid supplements) ideally would be refrigerated at purchase. I think they are all prone to becoming rancid. The only thing I am confused about is the idea of *added* EFA/DHA. Can anybody clarify (no pun intended)?
Mitch
Posted by cmcdougall on May 2, 2002, at 11:26:12
In reply to Re: My Pdoc recommended Omega 3 » noa, posted by Ritch on May 1, 2002, at 23:02:54
Don't know anything about "added" EPA - I don't have problems w/ my brand of Omega 3(OmegaBrite). Each capsule contains 400mg of EPA and comes blister packed, so no problems w/ the product going bad. I have been taking 2000mg per day for about a week and feel pretty good. I haven't had any problem w/ fishy burps either. The oil is supposed to be made in a way that makes it more easily digested.
Love and luck to all,
Carly
Posted by johnj on May 2, 2002, at 11:55:10
In reply to Re: My Pdoc recommended Omega 3 » Ritch, posted by cmcdougall on May 2, 2002, at 11:26:12
Do you order from the internet? I would be interested in finding a reputable brand. Thanks
John
Posted by Ritch on May 2, 2002, at 23:39:43
In reply to Re: My Pdoc recommended Omega 3 » Ritch, posted by cmcdougall on May 2, 2002, at 11:26:12
> Don't know anything about "added" EPA - I don't have problems w/ my brand of Omega 3(OmegaBrite). Each capsule contains 400mg of EPA and comes blister packed, so no problems w/ the product going bad. I have been taking 2000mg per day for about a week and feel pretty good. I haven't had any problem w/ fishy burps either. The oil is supposed to be made in a way that makes it more easily digested.
>
> Love and luck to all,
> CarlyHi Carly,
Wow, blister-packed fish oil-now that is interesting. So, when you say you are taking 2G daily-is that 5 caps a day or is that 2 caps a day? I ask that because most fish oil is only partly EPA. So, if it is two caps a day (which makes more sense), that gives you 800mg of EPA per day (some have said that 1000mg of EPA daily has been shown to have mood stabilization effects). I might check into the Omega-Brite, then. Does the Omega-Brite fishoil you have mention being *enteric coated*? What does your per pill cost come down to?
Sorry for all the questions,
Mitch
Posted by cmcdougall on May 3, 2002, at 21:21:38
In reply to Re: My Pdoc recommended Omega 3 » cmcdougall, posted by Ritch on May 2, 2002, at 23:39:43
Dear Ritch,
Each of my Omegabrite capsules contains the following:
EPA 375mg (I rounded up in my previous post)
DHA 55mg
Other Omega 3 fatty acids 90mg
Omega 6 fatty acids 60mg
Other fatty acids 60mgThe oil is not enteric coated, it is manufactured in a way that eliminates the aftertaste. Here is a quote from their literature:
"OmegaBrite is extremely pure, undergoing two molecular distillations to remove any potential heavy metals or toxins and to obtain the maximum concentration of EPA. OmegaBrite is manufactured in a nitrogen environment, then flushed with nitrogen to ensure that the Omega 3 oil is potent and to prevent oxidation that occures when Omega-3 oils are exposed to oxygen in the air. OmegaBrite is manufactured at FDA approved pharmaceutical facilities that adhere to Good Manufacturing Processes (GMP)."
This brand is supposed to be unique and unlike other brands in that it provides 90% pure Omega-3, over three times the concentration of most major brands. More info from lit.:
"OmegaBrite contains the EPD-7510 extract, specially formulated by doctors to effectively elevate mood and promote emotional and physical well-being. EPD-7510 contains the highest ratio of EPA relative to DHA, a 7:1 raatio. No other Omega-3 product from fish oil even approaches this optimum figure, which is preferred by many of the most prominent Omega-3 researchers. Omega-3 from flaxseed oil contains no EPA or DHA and has not been proven in clinical trials."
I take 6 capsules of OmegaBrite daily, along w/ a multi-vitamin, 400mg vitamin E, 100mg vitamin B Complex, and 1g vitamin C (the powder, dissolved in water).
The cost per capsule is approx. 38 cents each.
I swear to God I'm not trying to sell this stuff. Just sharing information... This is the brand my pdoc recommended and after checking it out, I think it is pretty good. I order 120 capsules per month and the total cost including shipping is $46. I signed up for an automatic shipment each month so I save 10%.
Love and luck,
Carly
Posted by Ritch on May 3, 2002, at 21:36:46
In reply to Re: My Pdoc recommended Omega 3 » Ritch, posted by cmcdougall on May 3, 2002, at 21:21:38
> Dear Ritch,
>
> Each of my Omegabrite capsules contains the following:
>
> EPA 375mg (I rounded up in my previous post)
> DHA 55mg
> Other Omega 3 fatty acids 90mg
> Omega 6 fatty acids 60mg
> Other fatty acids 60mg
>
> The oil is not enteric coated, it is manufactured in a way that eliminates the aftertaste. Here is a quote from their literature:
>
> "OmegaBrite is extremely pure, undergoing two molecular distillations to remove any potential heavy metals or toxins and to obtain the maximum concentration of EPA. OmegaBrite is manufactured in a nitrogen environment, then flushed with nitrogen to ensure that the Omega 3 oil is potent and to prevent oxidation that occures when Omega-3 oils are exposed to oxygen in the air. OmegaBrite is manufactured at FDA approved pharmaceutical facilities that adhere to Good Manufacturing Processes (GMP)."
>
> This brand is supposed to be unique and unlike other brands in that it provides 90% pure Omega-3, over three times the concentration of most major brands. More info from lit.:
>
> "OmegaBrite contains the EPD-7510 extract, specially formulated by doctors to effectively elevate mood and promote emotional and physical well-being. EPD-7510 contains the highest ratio of EPA relative to DHA, a 7:1 raatio. No other Omega-3 product from fish oil even approaches this optimum figure, which is preferred by many of the most prominent Omega-3 researchers. Omega-3 from flaxseed oil contains no EPA or DHA and has not been proven in clinical trials."
>
> I take 6 capsules of OmegaBrite daily, along w/ a multi-vitamin, 400mg vitamin E, 100mg vitamin B Complex, and 1g vitamin C (the powder, dissolved in water).
>
> The cost per capsule is approx. 38 cents each.
>
> I swear to God I'm not trying to sell this stuff. Just sharing information... This is the brand my pdoc recommended and after checking it out, I think it is pretty good. I order 120 capsules per month and the total cost including shipping is $46. I signed up for an automatic shipment each month so I save 10%.
>
> Love and luck,
> CarlyThanks Carly,
I will look for it around here-it sounds very smartly manufactured. Quality has been lacking generally in American mfg. for a few years now. The EPA content is similar to the Fish Oil I have. However, you aren't taking a lot of *unneeded* oils. I added up your milligrams up there and it amounts to less than 1G, whereas the stuff I have is 2G with the same EPA content. I would rather take much less Omega-6 with the same amount of Omega-3. Thirty-eight cents/capsule sounds good. I would just be taking one or two a day probably, so that would be OK pricewise.
Love and Luck to you,
Mitch
Posted by Leighwit on May 7, 2002, at 10:55:53
In reply to Re: My Pdoc recommended Omega 3 » Ritch, posted by cmcdougall on May 3, 2002, at 21:21:38
Carly,
I'm impressed that you have a Pdoc who actually is interested in something other than pharmaceuticals. That said, I've taken ADs for over ten years, and have never seriously attempted (took it consistently and recorded the results) natural alternatives other than SAMe, which in my case was contraindicated.
I'm very interested in what I've read on this Omega 3 thread, because even if it doesn't help with depression (and I'm not saying it doesn't or won't help) it has so many other benefits. I take it for heart health (I have long-term juvenile-onset diabetes) but never in the dosage ranges discussed here, wherein it might impact depression. I'm thinking I'll try these higher dosages.
I'm wondering what's in your multi-vitamin? Does it have particularly high levels of B6 or selenium, or any of the nutrients which are often/commonly discussed as "mood" elevators? If you're taking a B supplement, I'd guess your multi-vitamin is pretty basic. Yes?
I've never once, btw, thought you were selling anything here, and I've enjoying reading your posts. I need to go back and "search" your earlier posts, however becuase I'm not sure if you are taking a medication in addition to this supplement regime or not. Are you?
Sometimes I think there is an "either-OR" mentality in the general patient population regarding medication vs. nutrient-based treatments. I think that might be too narrow an aperture.
I read very few posts here from people who are 100% satisfied with the performance of their AD, and so I think it's safe to say that most of us are looking for improvements in the way we feel.
Medication is currently my first-line of defense and probably will be for the longer haul. That doesn't mean, however, that I'm not interested in augmenting medication therapy. It doesn't always have to be about one vs. the other. While there should always be an alertness to the concept that the combining of anything with a psychotropic medication (5 pounds of bananas a day probably shouldn't be mixed with Wellbutrin if you want your stomach to work properly) needs professional scrutiny, I think this is a topic of real interest to some of us.
I come to this site when my medication isn't working at full efficacy in order to explore my alternatives prior to my next Pdoc appointment. Maybe that means new drugs, maybe that means I'll try augmenting with something else, like SAMe or I'll find motivation to give more exercise another try. (It never works for me, but at least it diverts my attention).
I prefer Pdocs who are also interested in nutrition and whole-body approaches, but I find that they are difficult (if not impossible) to locate prior to a "first-visit" interview. Does your Pdoc have any credentials that led you to know his/her attitude about nutrition prior to your first meeting? Or was it mere chance?
Thanks,
LW> Each of my Omegabrite capsules contains the following:
>
> EPA 375mg (I rounded up in my previous post)
> DHA 55mg
> Other Omega 3 fatty acids 90mg
> Omega 6 fatty acids 60mg
> Other fatty acids 60mg
>
> The oil is not enteric coated, it is manufactured in a way that eliminates the aftertaste. Here is a quote from their literature:
>
> "OmegaBrite is extremely pure, undergoing two molecular distillations to remove any potential heavy metals or toxins and to obtain the maximum concentration of EPA. OmegaBrite is manufactured in a nitrogen environment, then flushed with nitrogen to ensure that the Omega 3 oil is potent and to prevent oxidation that occures when Omega-3 oils are exposed to oxygen in the air. OmegaBrite is manufactured at FDA approved pharmaceutical facilities that adhere to Good Manufacturing Processes (GMP)."
>
> This brand is supposed to be unique and unlike other brands in that it provides 90% pure Omega-3, over three times the concentration of most major brands. More info from lit.:
>
> "OmegaBrite contains the EPD-7510 extract, specially formulated by doctors to effectively elevate mood and promote emotional and physical well-being. EPD-7510 contains the highest ratio of EPA relative to DHA, a 7:1 raatio. No other Omega-3 product from fish oil even approaches this optimum figure, which is preferred by many of the most prominent Omega-3 researchers. Omega-3 from flaxseed oil contains no EPA or DHA and has not been proven in clinical trials."
>
> I take 6 capsules of OmegaBrite daily, along w/ a multi-vitamin, 400mg vitamin E, 100mg vitamin B Complex, and 1g vitamin C (the powder, dissolved in water).
>
> The cost per capsule is approx. 38 cents each.
>
> I swear to God I'm not trying to sell this stuff. Just sharing information... This is the brand my pdoc recommended and after checking it out, I think it is pretty good. I order 120 capsules per month and the total cost including shipping is $46. I signed up for an automatic shipment each month so I save 10%.
>
> Love and luck,
> Carly
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