![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 108. Go back in thread:
Posted by Elizabeth on February 10, 2002, at 16:34:29
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors, posted by cisco on February 9, 2002, at 13:37:12
> Why do you condemn the idea of ordering Meds from International 'Online Pharmacies'? Are you speaking from experience?
I'm not "condemning" the idea -- my objection is a practical one, not a moral one. I think the reliability of lots of places (in the U.S. as well as offshore) is dubious (getting a reference from someone who's used a pharmacy service is a good way to avoid getting duped), plus if it's offshore then you have the added risk of having it seized by Customs (yes, even if it's packaged discreetly). If you choose not to pick up a package that's seized by Customs, I rather doubt that most OPs would reimburse you, and these things tend to be pricey.
I don't have any firsthand experience. It is, of course, anybody's choice if they want to take the risk, but I prefer not to. I'm just telling you why. If I were more desperate and/or had more money, things might be different!
> Hopefully, the FDA will move on the Bup approval soon, and we can buy them in-country. Then, the only question that remains is price.
I'm sure it will be very costly. My understanding is that buprenorphine needs to be approved specifically for opioid addiction maintenance before the drug company will market sublingual bupe here.
> The internet has opened up access to pharmacies around the world. You would be surprised at what is available.
I don't think I would. :-}
Yes, U.S. doctors have been cowed into politically correct prescribing practices by their fear of state licensing boards. But you can usually find *someone* who will prescribe pretty much any medication, if you have a legitimate reason for needing it. (It's even possible to get a prescription from your doctor in the U.S., who actually knows you, for a drug that's not sold in the U.S., and get it imported in an unambiguously legal manner.)
-elizabeth
Posted by judy1 on February 10, 2002, at 17:54:53
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors » cisco, posted by Elizabeth on February 10, 2002, at 16:34:29
For some reason I thought you had a chronic pain condition- which makes it very easy to get a prescription from a pain clinic. I've gotten opiates from overseas, U.S. and from a service that brings the dr. to your door- all very expensive. The lesson I learned was pain was a much less complicated way to get a prescription then using a psych reason- even though it's one big vicious cycle with pain to depression and back. I hope you begin to feel better and get the meds you need- judy
Posted by shelliR on February 13, 2002, at 21:41:10
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors » cisco, posted by Elizabeth on February 10, 2002, at 16:34:29
> > Why do you condemn the idea of ordering Meds from International 'Online Pharmacies'? Are you speaking from experience?
>
> I'm not "condemning" the idea -- my objection is a practical one, not a moral one. I think the reliability of lots of places (in the U.S. as well as offshore) is dubious (getting a reference from someone who's used a pharmacy service is a good way to avoid getting duped), plus if it's offshore then you have the added risk of having it seized by Customs (yes, even if it's packaged discreetly). If you choose not to pick up a package that's seized by Customs, I rather doubt that most OPs would reimburse you, and these things tend to be pricey.
>
> I don't have any firsthand experience. It is, of course, anybody's choice if they want to take the risk, but I prefer not to. I'm just telling you why. If I were more desperate and/or had more money, things might be different!
>
> > Hopefully, the FDA will move on the Bup approval soon, and we can buy them in-country. Then, the only question that remains is price.
>
> I'm sure it will be very costly. My understanding is that buprenorphine needs to be approved specifically for opioid addiction maintenance before the drug company will market sublingual bupe here.
>
> > The internet has opened up access to pharmacies around the world. You would be surprised at what is available.
>
> I don't think I would. :-}
>
> Yes, U.S. doctors have been cowed into politically correct prescribing practices by their fear of state licensing boards. But you can usually find *someone* who will prescribe pretty much any medication, if you have a legitimate reason for needing it. (It's even possible to get a prescription from your doctor in the U.S., who actually knows you, for a drug that's not sold in the U.S., and get it imported in an unambiguously legal manner.)
>
> -elizabethElizabeth, easy for you to say. You seem to continue to find doctors who will prescribe it for you. I have one guy who was prescribing oxycontin who wouldn't let me try bupe and another doctor who thinks all opiates are evil--thinks I'll become just as addicted to bupe as oxy. Maybe she's right. I don't even know any more. Just like to try it.
Shelli
Posted by shelliR on February 13, 2002, at 21:46:43
In reply to Shelli?, posted by judy1 on February 10, 2002, at 17:54:53
> For some reason I thought you had a chronic pain condition- which makes it very easy to get a prescription from a pain clinic. I've gotten opiates from overseas, U.S. and from a service that brings the dr. to your door- all very expensive. The lesson I learned was pain was a much less complicated way to get a prescription then using a psych reason- even though it's one big vicious cycle with pain to depression and back. I hope you begin to feel better and get the meds you need- judy
No chronic pain condition, Judy. I don't understand how to get pain killers from overseas. (Not asking for an answer here.)
Posted by cisco on February 14, 2002, at 11:13:45
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors, posted by shelliR on February 13, 2002, at 21:41:10
Dear Shelli:
I understand. We live in a country where our Pharmacopeia is tightly controlled. When our Doctor's fail us repeatedly, we are justified to take matters into our own hand's. Not since the turn of the prior Century, has access to scheduled Drugs, without need for a prescription, been better, thanks to the internet. I get a big kick ordering what I want, when I want it, while bypassing the Doctor/Pharmacy mafia.
Cisco
Posted by reese1 on February 14, 2002, at 11:59:25
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors, posted by cisco on February 14, 2002, at 11:13:45
> Dear elizabeth
if you are an optimist this is good news if you are me which is either realist or as most call negative- i think it's okay to good
i spent an hour with my pdoc yesterday showing her all the information that i have on buprenex- from schedule V to how it is legal to prescribe for everything to anything except detox, i'm sitting in front of her in tears, fucking crying, she thinks i'm drunk i'm such a mess, she didn't mean it literally, finally she says i have no problem with you taking it i don't see it working any different from ultram which had no effect on me- but even thought she can prescribe methadone, pharma- cocaine, anything, she can not and will not write or even call in a script for buprenex. SO she tells me to look in the village voice, which i always do, and all there adds are for free detox of dope, oxy's whatever, usually inpatient or outpatient but i do not have an opiod problem, addiction, or even usage. I tell her i have one she calls up one of the places and tells them this and that i used to do this but i haven't but i want to all this bullshit so i can get into this place which is just a money scam- where it doesn't matter why you want it- as long as you pay them 300 for the visit and then you get a script for 90- which is 300 if insurance doesn't take it.
the funny thing is i see these adds every week and i knew i could go in there and lie but why. so now tonight i get to see the buprenex village voice guy and see how it goes...
sorry to continue to wine but there is something so merciless about having to go through this since december now near or is middle of february for something i could have done without my shrink. i just didn't want to lie. instead they lie.
ELIZABETH HOW MANY AMPULES DO YOU TAKE A DAY?
I'M guessing three?
but i was curios how it works from day to day or if you ever need to take one less or one more?
Posted by shelliR on February 14, 2002, at 15:57:20
In reply to Re: buprenex prescription from twilight zone, posted by reese1 on February 14, 2002, at 11:59:25
Reese,Is the script for ninety days?
Does your doctor have to call?
I mean if I decide to come to New York City, can I pay $600 for 90 days of buph with out my pdoc calling.BTW, I think your pdoc is very odd. Why doesn't she call Dr. Bodkin in Boston? You've probably already explained this, so you don't need to explain again. Are you going to go through with this? Do they charge you $300 for the prescription no matter how high (or low) the dosage is? How do they expect you to take it, I mean what form is it in?
Hey, do you have any interest in splitting the whole thing with me? I'm not sure if this is not a proper thing to suggest on PB... Thanks.
shelli
Posted by Elizabeth on February 15, 2002, at 11:12:37
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors, posted by shelliR on February 13, 2002, at 21:41:10
> Elizabeth, easy for you to say. You seem to continue to find doctors who will prescribe it for you. I have one guy who was prescribing oxycontin who wouldn't let me try bupe and another doctor who thinks all opiates are evil--thinks I'll become just as addicted to bupe as oxy. Maybe she's right. I don't even know any more. Just like to try it.
Do you really think you were truly addicted to oxycodone? That wasn't my impression. Anyone who takes oxycodone regularly, as you did, will become pharmacologically dependent on it (it might be that this doesn't always happen to people taking it for depression; I'm not sure). That's a normal reaction, not a pathological one. Addiction is when people start having cravings, doing things to get drugs that they would never do otherwise, and so forth.
Anyway, I didn't mean to trivialize your problems finding a doctor, and I'm sorry if that's how it came across. Believe me, I do know how hard it can be, and I'm not sure what to suggest. How did you find the guy who prescribed the OxyContin? I'd expect doctors to be more leery of that (especially with the recent bad publicity) than of buprenorphine.
I'll think on it and let you know if I come up with any ideas other than those that have been mentioned. I'm very sorry that you're stuck in this situation; it's quite scary not to know how you can get the medication you need. I really do hope that you can figure out a way to treat your depression.
As always, you have my best wishes.
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on February 15, 2002, at 11:31:23
In reply to Re: buprenex prescription from twilight zone, posted by reese1 on February 14, 2002, at 11:59:25
Reese,
It's important to be calm when talking to your pdoc about something like this. This is strange, since the crying, panic, etc. are probably just expressions of the problems that your pdoc is supposed to be treating, but it's true nonetheless. Being calm makes it easier to communicate what you need to communicate to your pdoc. A lot of your writing is kind of hard for me to decipher, and I'm guessing that you're not in a very calm mood as you write it. Maybe I'm totally off base here, but I think that your pdoc might be having problems understanding what you're trying to tell her. It also might be (and again, this is an absurd attitude for a pdoc to take) that she isn't taking what you're telling her seriously because of your emotional state. If there's anything you can do so that you go in to your appointments feeling relatively calm, rational, and prepared to respond to her objections without getting too distraught, I think that could make a big difference. I don't know if that's possible for you, but if it is, it might make it easier for her to listen to what you have to say if she's not so focussed on your emotional state.
> finally she says i have no problem with you taking it i don't see it working any different from ultram which had no effect on me-
> but even thought she can prescribe methadone,
I'm not so sure about that. I've heard that doctors prescribing methadone have to write "for pain" on the prescription, unless the patient is on a 28-day or less waitlist to get into methadone maintenance treatment.
> anything, she can not and will not write or even call in a script for buprenex.
She's just wrong if she thinks she can't do it. Is it really so hard for her to see that she might be wrong?
Anyway...I'm glad you found something you can do, even though you had to go through a lot of unnecessary nonsense, and I hope that things work out long term.
I take one ampule (1 mL) three times a day, but I started out taking only 1/2 mL (also three times a day). I've found that starting on 1/2 mL and then increasing it after a week or so prevents me from getting sick to my stomach on it.
Good luck to you.
-elizabeth
Posted by shelliR on February 15, 2002, at 13:04:37
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors » shelliR, posted by Elizabeth on February 15, 2002, at 11:12:37
Hi Elizabeth. Sorry to have been so hard on you; I'm just feeling very very depressed and very frustrated. The reason I would say that I was addicted to oxycontin was that I continued to have to raise my dose to get ANY anti-depressant effect. That was the strange part--that each time it lost effectiveness at a dose, it had no effect on my depression anymore until I raised the dose. I suppose it could be called habituation rather than addiction, but it was horrible to get off of. And I had gotten myself up to a $1000 a month habit. There are several suits against the manufacturers of oxy for touting its appropriateness for arthritis, etc. and getting people addicted to it. When I got taken off of it in the hospital, I think I would have robbed someone if I thought they had oxycontin, or any opiate. I went from oxy to methodone and they were supposed to detox me with bupe but it did nothing. I was in horrible pain. A guy who is part of some methodone maintentance program told me that one should never ever use buprenorphine right after methodone--that it will make withdrawal worse. I'm not sure of the truth of that, but I was on the floor screaming in pain.
Shelli
> > Elizabeth, easy for you to say. You seem to continue to find doctors who will prescribe it for you. I have one guy who was prescribing oxycontin who wouldn't let me try bupe and another doctor who thinks all opiates are evil--thinks I'll become just as addicted to bupe as oxy. Maybe she's right. I don't even know any more. Just like to try it.
>
> Do you really think you were truly addicted to oxycodone? That wasn't my impression. Anyone who takes oxycodone regularly, as you did, will become pharmacologically dependent on it (it might be that this doesn't always happen to people taking it for depression; I'm not sure). That's a normal reaction, not a pathological one. Addiction is when people start having cravings, doing things to get drugs that they would never do otherwise, and so forth.
>
> Anyway, I didn't mean to trivialize your problems finding a doctor, and I'm sorry if that's how it came across. Believe me, I do know how hard it can be, and I'm not sure what to suggest. How did you find the guy who prescribed the OxyContin? I'd expect doctors to be more leery of that (especially with the recent bad publicity) than of buprenorphine. I've been calling Johns Hopkins all morning, but their studies seem to be about buprenorphine maintenance rather than bupe for refractive depression.Shelli
>
> I'll think on it and let you know if I come up with any ideas other than those that have been mentioned. I'm very sorry that you're stuck in this situation; it's quite scary not to know how you can get the medication you need. I really do hope that you can figure out a way to treat your depression.
>
> As always, you have my best wishes.
>
> -elizabeth
Posted by shelliR on February 15, 2002, at 13:10:00
In reply to Re: buprenex grey market » reese1, posted by Elizabeth on February 15, 2002, at 11:31:23
Reese,
I don't agree with Elizabeth. If your doctor understands enough to tell you to look in the village voice, and is willing to call those people, it is hard for me to believe that she can't read Bodkin's study on her own. She did get through medical school.Shelli
Posted by cisco on February 15, 2002, at 17:15:25
In reply to Re: buprenex grey market -- Reese, posted by shelliR on February 15, 2002, at 13:10:00
What am I missing here: This Doctor will write Class II prescriptions all day long. She's terrified of issuing a Class V script, but will help her patient obtain this same drug under false pretenses in the Grey Market? Who is in greater need of counseling here, the Doc or the patient?
BTW: $260 will buy you 200 0.2mg SL tabs via a reliable Online Pharmacy. Out of curiosity, how many 0.3mg/ml ampuoles will You get for 3 C notes?
Cisco
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 15, 2002, at 17:48:01
In reply to Re: buprenex prescription from twilight zone » reese1, posted by shelliR on February 14, 2002, at 15:57:20
> Hey, do you have any interest in splitting the whole thing with me? I'm not sure if this is not a proper thing to suggest on PB...
It's not:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Bob
PS: Follow-ups about posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Elizabeth on February 15, 2002, at 21:40:59
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors » Elizabeth, posted by shelliR on February 15, 2002, at 13:04:37
> Hi Elizabeth. Sorry to have been so hard on you; I'm just feeling very very depressed and very frustrated.
Of course -- I understand.
> The reason I would say that I was addicted to oxycontin was that I continued to have to raise my dose to get ANY anti-depressant effect.
I'm not a huge fan of the DSM, but I think that they did a fairly good job defining addiction. Tolerance is neither necessary nor sufficient. Here's a link to the diagnostic criteria (in DSM-IV, it's given the confusing name "substance dependence"): http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/subdep.htm
You've already said that your oxycodone use satisfied criteria 1 (tolerance) and 2 (withdrawal). What about the other criteria? (Note that it wouldn't be accurate to say that you had "oxycodone dependence" since you didn't take it for the required 12 months, or even close to it.)
> And I had gotten myself up to a $1000 a month habit.
OxyContin is *very* expensive. I've heard that the maker of NuMorphan (oxymorphone) is trying to get a sustained release formulation of oxymorphone approved. That might give OxyContin some real competition (MS Contin is made by the same company, and methadone, a naturally long-acting opioid, is not prescribed much for pain, probably because it's so closely scrutinized by the government, even compared to other "narcotics").
> There are several suits against the manufacturers of oxy for touting its appropriateness for arthritis, etc. and getting people addicted to it.
Those people (the ones claiming to be "addicted") don't know what addiction is. Anyway, I don't see grounds for a lawsuit. OxyContin is labelled for "moderate to severe pain when a continuous, around-the-clock analgesic is needed for an extended period of time," and the monograph makes it clear that using it regularly will lead to tolerance and that it has high abuse potential (among other things). I think that the people who are trying to sue Purdue were well aware of these risks when they started taking OxyContin. I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which the drug company would be at fault if a patient had a hard time getting off the drug or misused it and became addicted. The fact that someone has sued a company doesn't tell us whether the company has done anything wrong.
> When I got taken off of it in the hospital, I think I would have robbed someone if I thought they had oxycontin, or any opiate. I went from oxy to methodone and they were supposed to detox me with bupe but it did nothing.
That's awful. They obviously weren't giving you a high enough dose. I think that buprenorphine has a lot of potential to be very useful for people who have trouble discontinuing full agonists, since it seldom causes nasty withdrawal symptoms.
> I was in horrible pain. A guy who is part of some methodone maintentance program told me that one should never ever use buprenorphine right after methodone--that it will make withdrawal worse.
That's a possible risk because of buprenorphine's mixed agonist/antagonist activity, but I've talked to a lot of people who've used buprenorphine to get off of full agonists and I've never encountered anyone who found that buprenorphine made the withdrawal symptoms worse. My impression is that buprenorphine only acts as an antagonist at very high concentrations.
I'm glad you got through the experience. That's terrible that the people in the hospital let you suffer like that -- IMHO, that should never happen. Yet hospitals regularly force people to detox too fast. The system is very broken. *sigh*
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on February 15, 2002, at 21:41:30
In reply to Re: buprenex grey market -- Reese, posted by shelliR on February 15, 2002, at 13:10:00
> I don't agree with Elizabeth.
I'm confused; what did I say that you don't agree with? I think you're right that it just makes no sense for this doctor to refuse to prescribe this drug or even to try to learn something about it.
-e
Posted by shelliR on February 16, 2002, at 10:45:37
In reply to Re: buprenex grey market » shelliR, posted by Elizabeth on February 15, 2002, at 21:41:30
> > I don't agree with Elizabeth.
>
> I'm confused; what did I say that you don't agree with? I think you're right that it just makes no sense for this doctor to refuse to prescribe this drug or even to try to learn something about it.
>
> -eHi Elizabeth,
I probably should have left your post quoted in my post, but I was trying to save space and repetition.
This is what you said to Reese that I wasn't in agreement with:
"Maybe I'm totally off base here, but I think that your pdoc might be having problems understanding what you're trying to tell her. It also might be (and again, this is an absurd attitude for a pdoc to take) that she isn't taking what you're telling her seriously because of your emotional state."
When I reread the whole post, I think that you were mostly putting the responsibility on Reese's pdoc, but when I first read the above statement, I thought you were putting too much responsibilty on Reese. Again, I think the pdoc understands enough to get her connected through The Voice, so I think Reese must be communicating clearly enough. Just my opinion.
Shelli
Posted by reese1 on February 18, 2002, at 0:50:23
In reply to Re: buprenex prescription from twilight zone » reese1, posted by shelliR on February 14, 2002, at 15:57:20
>
> Reese,
>
> Is the script for ninety days?
> Does your doctor have to call?
> I mean if I decide to come to New York City, can I pay $600 for 90 days of buph with out my pdoc calling.
>
> BTW, I think your pdoc is very odd. Why doesn't she call Dr. Bodkin in Boston? You've probably already explained this, so you don't need to explain again. Are you going to go through with this? Do they charge you $300 for the prescription no matter how high (or low) the dosage is? How do they expect you to take it, I mean what form is it in?
>
> Hey, do you have any interest in splitting the whole thing with me? I'm not sure if this is not a proper thing to suggest on PB... Thanks.
>
> shelliit is very easy. you pay 300 $ meet with the doctor he gives you a script for 90amps and then it's up to your insurance. mine was not friendly at all. costs me 135$ for every 30- hell hell
if you would like the number it is on the back of the village voice every week and i'll give it to you without any problem. it's legal. and all that.
Posted by reese1 on February 18, 2002, at 0:56:52
In reply to Re: buprenex grey market -- Reese, posted by cisco on February 15, 2002, at 17:15:25
> What am I missing here: This Doctor will write Class II prescriptions all day long. She's terrified of issuing a Class V script, but will help her patient obtain this same drug under false pretenses in the Grey Market? Who is in greater need of counseling here, the Doc or the patient?
>
> BTW: $260 will buy you 200 0.2mg SL tabs via a reliable Online Pharmacy. Out of curiosity, how many 0.3mg/ml ampuoles will You get for 3 C notes?
>
> Ciscoi know it sounds strange and i've gone over and over it in and out my head but my pdoc basically feels now that buprenex is being used as a detox from dope and for her to prescribe it for off label would be a big pain in the ass- so there are doctors through the village voice etc who will do it
i need to know about the PHARMACY you mentioned above.
what is BTW? and they sell buprenex for 260$ for 200 .2amps? or am i confused
for the three hundred i paid the doctor i was given a script of ninety amps
after that it is up to your insurance- now for the friendly catch-
i have good insurance- i have to with all the meds i take and still they would not pay for it so i will have to battle with them because they charge/pharmacy
30amps -135$
basically is almost 400$ a month which will be impossible
any ideas i would appreciate it
reese
Posted by cisco on February 18, 2002, at 3:29:52
In reply to Re: cisco from reese, posted by reese1 on February 18, 2002, at 0:56:52
Dear Reese:
I am very sorry you are having to endure so much unnecessary pain and torment. How utterly ridiculous! But so typical. The Doctors have the keys to the medicine cabinet, and they KNOW it. It dosen't matter how inept, inane or incompetent, they are. They will put up some meds, if you shut up.
How long are we willing to take this? How long do we have to? Hey, the times they be a changeling....
>>>>>BTW = By The Way<<<<<
Buprenorphine Pricing:
Are you really paying that much?
$135.00 for 30 amps x 0.3mg/ml, is what, $4.50 per dose of 300 micrograms? OUCH!
Thats as much as the rip-off Mexican Farmacias in Tijuana! Gee-Willickers and Gosh!By comparison, most Online Pharmacy's (OP's) charge considerably less, mg for mg. Most OP's offer 200 microgram sublingual tabs (0.2mg) rather than the 300 microgram injectible ampuoles (0.3mg/ml).
BTW, They both work well. However, the SL Tabs are more discreet, if you are dosing at work, for instance.
Online Pricing starts out at $.70 cents each ($70.00 per 100 tabs), up to $1.50 each ($150.00 per 100 tabs). Available at 5 OP's, of varying reliability and price.
Take care, and be smart.
Cisco
Posted by reese1 on February 18, 2002, at 16:04:44
In reply to Re: buprenex grey market » Elizabeth, posted by shelliR on February 16, 2002, at 10:45:37
i mean to write earlier but the site was down...
anyway,
if anyone needs informatiion about buprenex from the village voice
it costs 300 dollars to meet the doctor
then whatever the cost of medication is under your insusranceyou get 90ampules
thanks
Posted by reese1 on February 18, 2002, at 16:12:59
In reply to Re: cisco from reese, posted by cisco on February 18, 2002, at 3:29:52
> Dear Reese:
>
> I am very sorry you are having to endure so much unnecessary pain and torment. How utterly ridiculous! But so typical. The Doctors have the keys to the medicine cabinet, and they KNOW it. It dosen't matter how inept, inane or incompetent, they are. They will put up some meds, if you shut up.
>
> How long are we willing to take this? How long do we have to? Hey, the times they be a changeling....
>
> >>>>>BTW = By The Way<<<<<
>
> Buprenorphine Pricing:
>
> Are you really paying that much?
> $135.00 for 30 amps x 0.3mg/ml, is what, $4.50 per dose of 300 micrograms? OUCH!
> Thats as much as the rip-off Mexican Farmacias in Tijuana! Gee-Willickers and Gosh!
>
> By comparison, most Online Pharmacy's (OP's) charge considerably less, mg for mg. Most OP's offer 200 microgram sublingual tabs (0.2mg) rather than the 300 microgram injectible ampuoles (0.3mg/ml).
>
> BTW, They both work well. However, the SL Tabs are more discreet, if you are dosing at work, for instance.
>
> Online Pricing starts out at $.70 cents each ($70.00 per 100 tabs), up to $1.50 each ($150.00 per 100 tabs). Available at 5 OP's, of varying reliability and price.
>
> Take care, and be smart.
>
> Ciscohey man/women thank you so much for the words and care. &*^*& i never like to say out loud how i feel. it's fear. then it will be true. it's been a long time. i am tired. i have support. financially it's a killer. not just "financial" but the humility of not working. bla bla bla
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 18, 2002, at 23:42:25
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors, posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 10:05:26
> I understand that you just want something that helps, but please don't use this site to exchange information like that.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegalSorry to be a stick in the mud, but just to be clear, that includes using this site to exchange email addresses in order to exchange information like that. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by cisco on February 19, 2002, at 0:29:10
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors, posted by Dr. Bob on February 18, 2002, at 23:42:25
Dear Dr. Bob:
I certainly expected the warning. But, it's a classic "Catch 22".
You have created a site where a very high level of discussion takes place. There is an exceptional group of minds posting their views here. In the midst of a revolution of information, It would be sad if you had to limit the options available to us, due to political, and/or administrative pressure. Rules were meant to be stretched. Those that break, are usually found to be too inflexible to start with!
Thanks for your patience, as I await your Censure,
Cisco
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2002, at 8:38:39
In reply to Re: opioid stuff and dealing with doctors, posted by cisco on February 19, 2002, at 0:29:10
> It would be sad if you had to limit the options available to us
I've responded to this at Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20011216/msgs/3021.html
Where is where further discussion of this should take place.
Bob
Posted by reese1 on February 19, 2002, at 8:59:43
In reply to Re: cisco from reese, posted by cisco on February 18, 2002, at 3:29:52
hi,
i have a simple question for a change. When using intramuscular medication (such as buprenex) would there be a possible difference of the reaction one would recieve because of difference in needle size.
for example
injection by 3ml 25G x 5/8
or
injection by 3ml 22G x 1 1/2i would think, or it could be psychosomatic, that there is quite a difference in terms of use with 22G x 11/2 when used with buprenex.
wondering what you think?
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