![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 96 to 120 of 200. Go back in thread:
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 9, 2002, at 18:38:12
In reply to Re: Two years is pathetic 3 beers!! » Mr. Scott, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 15:35:57
> Scott:
>
> Are you kidding, or being serious? How would you suggest that someone "get busy" if they are taking say... an MAOI or Tricyclic? Even most SSRIs and Effexor impair sex quite significantly at robust therapeutic doses.
>
> For me, there was always almost a direct relationship between how sexual I felt, and how depressed I was becoming. Any drug that was effective in taking away depression, took away at the very least, my ability to have sex. Some took away both the desire and the ability. Either is unacceptable. If you have a strong desire, but cannot perform, than what good is it? It becomes a trap of frustration.Of course I'm kidding... I was a little shocked at 3Beers use of such wording on a public forum. I hope I wasn't accidentally offensive..
Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 9, 2002, at 18:57:10
In reply to You won't get any flak from me... » bob, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 17:53:03
Bob,
I would like to place you in charge of the new Psychobabble dating service. You can pair up nutsos with eachother. For instance two people who take Wellbutrin might want to get busy without any foreplay, while the Nardil takers who have in advance agreed to a strictly platonic relationship (not by choice of course) might make for a fitting match.
Alternatively you might want to pair up a couple where one is ADHD and one is OCD since opposites tend to attract.
I'm laughing out loud over here after sleeping all day and taking Effexor even though I'm certain I am BP II and am woried I need more mood stabilizer in my diet.
Scott
Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 19:04:51
In reply to You won't get any flak from me... » bob, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 17:53:03
> > "...BTW, IsoM.... have you actually had trouble in the past with advances from male members on boards like this one?"
Yeah, I have. I try to keep my tone very non-gender unless I'm 'talking' with another woman. Then I don't worry about guarding what I might say or imply.
One example, when Napster first became popular, I was busy downloading lots of mp3s. Because we had a huge library of songs (over 1,400) & a very fast connection, we allowed others to upload from us. I was typing info to help one person not familiar with how it worked & he started asking questions. It was a 18 yr old kid who somehow thought he'd found his "princess". When I told him he was younger than any of my sons, he freaked, thinking I had led him on!! I showed the messages to my 19 yr old & he cracked up. He said he couldn't figure out how he ever thought that.
That was the funniest but others were annoying so I'm reluctant to give out e-mail address or say much.
Posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 19:05:34
In reply to Re: Attitude to Women-3 Beer Effect, posted by Reneeb on February 9, 2002, at 18:14:18
> >
> >
>
> Wow, this is disappointing. I thought we were here to support not degrade each other!!!!
>
>
> ReneeTo whom is your post directed? I don't believe I've degraded anyone.
Posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 19:08:53
In reply to Re: You won't get any flak from me... » bob, posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 19:04:51
It's not surprising to me that you would get a response like that on a board dedicated to music, but it would surprise me very much on this board. I've never seen anything like that here (at least on the medication related board).
Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 19:09:03
In reply to Last time, IsoM is a geniune, pure Lady! (nm) » bob, posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 17:40:09
Spike, again I say - thank you so much. I just try to be careful & tactful of what I say & try to see ideas from others' viewpoint (applied empathy) - something either sex can do. :-)
Love plus sex *does* equal perfection, doesn't it? I won't settle for less.
Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 19:13:42
In reply to Re: You won't get any flak from me... » IsoM, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 19:08:53
I wouldn't expect any response like that here either, but it's just become the way I 'talk' on forums period (when I do use them). :-)
Posted by Reneeb on February 9, 2002, at 20:06:51
In reply to Re: Attitude to Women-3 Beer Effect » Reneeb, posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 19:05:34
> > >
Bob, It wasn't intended for you. I believe the name on the posting was 3 Beer Effect. It's MY opinion that you should think about who you might offend when you make comments like "The b*tch was fat".
Posted by bob on February 9, 2002, at 23:52:51
In reply to Re: Attitude to Women-3 Beer Effect » bob, posted by Reneeb on February 9, 2002, at 20:06:51
> > > >
> Bob, It wasn't intended for you. I believe the name on the posting was 3 Beer Effect. It's MY opinion that you should think about who you might offend when you make comments like "The b*tch was fat".==================================================
I don't think you'll get much arguement about your opinion on that one.
Posted by ethan on February 10, 2002, at 0:05:16
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women, posted by OldSchool on February 9, 2002, at 15:36:47
Well, I don't know your condition or what you're taking but I hear you cuz I been there done that.
I will not tolerate sexual side effects with these drugs (it isn't a matter of whether I can or not -- I simply WILL not). I've been down the Paxil and Zoloft roads (forget Prozac) and found that for me the loss of sexual function exacerbated my depression GREATLY, while the drug's "benefit" was simply to flatten out my personality and mood. This is called "Turning Into A Zombie."
The loss of sexual function made me more frustrated than I had been, made me isolate because I was ashamed I couldn't "function" anymore, and the damage from those months and years of trying these drugs have taken their toll on my self-esteem. Today the meds I take are not supposed to have sexual side effects, and yet I still have difficulties -- which are no doubt the aftermath of being put through the ringer with drugs that adversely affect sexual function, along with the original and continuing effects of the depression.
I know you're joking about the hooker (maybe not), and it's good to see you're trying to make light of the problem through humor, but the long term psychological damage sexual dysfunction can have on you is NOT GOOD.
Advice that was given me and which I pass along is:
Talk to your doctor about getting OFF the meds you are on that are robbing you of your sex drive OR see whether you can add a med that makes you more spunky (i.e., the side effects of one drug that offsets the side effects of another drug. Serzone was quoted me as one drug that can offset sexual side effects in other drugs, for example...WB is anot supposed to adversely affect sex drive, etc.
Naturally it depends on what is wrong with you, what you have tried before and what does and doesn't work for your condition (we all respond differently to different drugs and as much as the docs know about the meds they are still in the dark about plenty -- hence we are all our own guinea pigs). If sexual side effects are bothering you even a little you have to take that seriously and demand your pdoc look into and discuss with you every other treatment possibility available for your condition.
A lot has to do with diet and exercise, too. Exercise especially. Most of us are sitting on our beee-hinds typing away on this BB when we could be getting a half hour of aerobic exercise (even just fast walking). I know that's a big issue for me, one which definitely also affects my capacity to function sexually. I bet most of us with depression don't exercise nearly enough, and if we did we might be able to take less meds to get enough benefit and deal with less side effects. Just a thought my doc passed along to me.
For men especially to be robbed of their sexual identity (being relegated to the status of eunuch) is perhaps the most discouraging and underrated liability of taking psychotropic medications which adversely affect sex drive. Whether it's right or wrong, many men equate their intrinsic self worth with their ability to "rise" to various sexual occasions (so to speak). That aspect of man isn't going to change. It is, however, up to each of us to work with our doctors to find solutions to our conditions that do not emasculate us.
Sex is one of the easiest things to find in this world if you really want it. There are plenty of people who are willing to have sex for a price, infinitely more who would be willing to do so "recreationally" if approached with respect and honesty. Not isolating and making ourselves available to potential partners is part of the problem also. We can sit on a BB and type away and not be "out there" meeting people. Incidentally, as soon as I finish typing this, I'm outa here to head up to the local watering hole and see if I get lucky. It takes forcing yourself to be social, or else go to a strip club and get a lap dance, or whatever. But don't isolate. Perhaps the worst thing about drugs that rob us of our sexual abilities is that we are even denied the ability to masturbate.
It's our choice whether we take the drugs prescribed for us and when we find the sexual side effects ruining us, our responsibility to take action. Believe me, I know -- I learned the "hard" way (bad pun).
ethan
> > No wonder it seems like men & women can come from different worlds. Women generally equate sex with love, warmth, & a relationship. And many men generally equate it with recreation & release of tension.
>
> LOL Thats basically what sex is from the male point of view. Recreation and a release of tension AKA "getting off." Men like to get off and roll over and fall asleep. Not very romantic, but in reality its how most men are.
>
> >
> > I agree with the women's viewpoint. If you really want good sex, men, you need to form a strong bond. Good sex without love is just an illusion. A great physical feeling at the time, but doesn't last beyond the act.
>
> LOL I could make a reply but Im going to hold off cause I dont want to be blocked. Id also like to say that I havent had a good sex drive in four years and its dropped off even more in the last year. Id love to be able to have "animal lust" feelings again. Ditch the romance stuff...Id just like to feel horny again for a change.
>
> Old School
Posted by bob on February 10, 2002, at 0:31:16
In reply to Sexual Side Effects SUCK (ok, bad choice of words), posted by ethan on February 10, 2002, at 0:05:16
Ethan:
I don't know what drugs you've found that have freed you from any sexual dysfunction whatsoever, but I'd contend that you're a rare bird indeed. Most males (and many females) experience sexual dysfunction on the meds and they live with it, because it's hard enough to find something that makes them feel better. I fear it's not as simple as not accepting it. Often people are trying to save their own lives. Usually during these times of crisis, sex takes the back burner. Of course, after the sex problem is solved one day, then there'll be the weight gain issue. That one doesn't exactly do wonders for people's self-esteem either.
Bob
Posted by christophrejmc on February 10, 2002, at 1:03:16
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women » christophrejmc, posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 16:36:16
> My opinion only but sex without love can leave you feeling empty. Love without sex sounds purely frustrating!
I agree. By love without sex, I sorta meant any intimate contact at all. It wasn't so frustrating, but it led to some feelings of insecurity, inferiority, etc.
...
> It was a 18 yr old kid who somehow thought he'd found his "princess". When I told him he was younger than any of my sons, he freaked, thinking I had led him on!!
Not too old for me, sweety! (20/m/USA/will travel. wanna hook up?! ;) (Have you seen Harold & Maude?)
Posted by IsoM on February 10, 2002, at 2:07:39
In reply to Re: Some Men's Attitude Towards Women » IsoM, posted by christophrejmc on February 10, 2002, at 1:03:16
Hey, I'm not as old as Maude!
I feel real weird saying this but I'm always being mistaken for someone in my late 30s which is silly. But I guess it pays to stay healthy & active. My idea was that so many people when older have such miserable health & so many physical problems that they can't enjoy life. I didn't ever want to get pathetic like that so I resolved to stay fit & look after myself. It wasn't to 'preserve' my looks but it helps. That & the fact I never was a sun worshipper or smoker, 'cept for 2 years when young.
Thanks for the offer :-) but now that I'm single again, it feels good not to always be answering to someone & doing what they want all the time.
(I know you were only joking - but you put a smile on my face.)
Posted by ethan on February 10, 2002, at 4:15:54
In reply to Re: Sexual Side Effects SUCK (ok, bad choice of words) » ethan, posted by bob on February 10, 2002, at 0:31:16
Yeah, I was near suicide when I asked for help in 1992. So don't patronize me with the "some people are trying to save their lives" stuff. Of course they're trying to save their lives -- so am I; you think I'm on medication because I Want To Be???
It's all a big compromise, and one concession I refuse to make anymore is the sexual side effects. When I read people complaining about sexual side effects I encourage them to talk to their doctors about whether their medication can be modified. What's Wrong With THAT?
Since I went on meds back in the early 90s I've been on just about any and everything they can try on me, with sometimes benefits and sometimes not. What you say about all medications producing sexual side effects which adversely reduce sexual function is simply NOT TRUE. Not ALL drugs do this. SSRIs do, but some may do this less than others, and it's better to TRY something else in case it is a more appropriate choice than settle for a life of sexual purgatory.
Exercise and socializing (rather than isolating) also have more to do with saving lives from mental illness than you may be imagining. Without either the medications are simply Not Enough. For those who think their sex lives are "over" (and believe me, on Paxil that's just what happened to me), there are alternatives. But it takes diligence and experimentation.
Wellbutrin does not depress my sex drive. When I was on Serzone with the Wellbutrin my sex drive actually increased. Serzone made me dopey, so I had to stop it. I nearly crashed my car on that stuff. But it might work for someone else. The important thing is to be proactive with the doctor and insist on being given information about every possiblity available rather than just "settle" for whatever the doctor prescribes. I've seen people in group do this, completely unaware of the fact that their are other drugs out there than Prozac, Paxil, and Zoloft.
I'm not unsympathetic with anyone who is placing as a lower priority their sexual function over other matters; that's a matter of choice. However the benefits of medication for ME were never good enough compared with the sexual side effects. I know others feel the same. It's a topic that warrants discussion.
So please don't tell me it's hard enough to fiind something that makes you feel better -- I've been there and I know that, and sometimes those drugs make you feel worse because of the side effects. There's nothing worse in treating depresesion to find drugs that work that you can not tolerate -- it's worse still when you are torn over living a life of sexual abstinence (as though you are being punished for getting well).
I never said I was freed of sexual dysfunction. You obviously read into what I wrote, not what I wrote. I still have problems -- but the drugs are likely no longer the main issue. Now my concern over these drugs is whether I can tolerate the other side effects (and that's a whole other story). But I would encourage anyone on SSRIs to talk to their doctor and insist on being given alternatives, IF they are unhappy with their sex lives as a result of the medication.
ethan
> Ethan:
>
> I don't know what drugs you've found that have freed you from any sexual dysfunction whatsoever, but I'd contend that you're a rare bird indeed. Most males (and many females) experience sexual dysfunction on the meds and they live with it, because it's hard enough to find something that makes them feel better. I fear it's not as simple as not accepting it. Often people are trying to save their own lives. Usually during these times of crisis, sex takes the back burner. Of course, after the sex problem is solved one day, then there'll be the weight gain issue. That one doesn't exactly do wonders for people's self-esteem either.
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 9:23:34
In reply to I know, I haven't got laid in 2 years!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 8, 2002, at 22:42:36
>I know, I haven't gotten laid in 2 years & that b*tch was fat (good thing I was wasted drunk at the time)! Of course I live in Texas where you practically have to marry a girl to have sex with her.
Please don't post anything that might lead others to feel put down or might offend them, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 9:26:53
In reply to Some Men's Attitude Towards Women, posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 14:47:24
> No wonder it seems like men & women can come from different worlds...
Now this is *definitely* something that should be at Psycho-Social-Babble instead of here. :-)
Bob
PS: And any discussion of posting policies should be at Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 9:30:20
In reply to Re: Two years is pathetic 3 beers!!, posted by Geezer on February 9, 2002, at 16:02:18
> Two years is pathetic 3 beers!!
Please don't put others down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 9:35:56
In reply to Dr.Bob's dating service » bob, posted by Mr. Scott on February 9, 2002, at 18:57:10
> I would like to place you in charge of the new Psychobabble dating service.
Hmm, a personals board? :-)
> You can pair up nutsos with eachother.
I understand you're trying to be funny, and I don't want to over-react here, but please be careful not to put others down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Bob on February 10, 2002, at 13:53:02
In reply to Re: Sexual Side Effects SUCK (ok, bad choice of wo, posted by ethan on February 10, 2002, at 4:15:54
Gee, Ethan.
See below...
> Yeah, I was near suicide when I asked for help in 1992. So don't patronize me with the "some people are trying to save their lives" stuff. Of course they're trying to save their lives -- so am I; you think I'm on medication because I Want To Be???--------------------------------------------------
I never implied that you haven't been through as much hell as any of us here. I don't understand where you got the idea that I thought you were on medication because you wanted to be.
--------------------------------------------------
>
> It's all a big compromise, and one concession I refuse to make anymore is the sexual side effects. When I read people complaining about sexual side effects I encourage them to talk to their doctors about whether their medication can be modified. What's Wrong With THAT?--------------------------------------------------
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but here I defer to my original point, which is that the handful of effective antidepressants that don't have sexual side-effects may not work for a person (e.g. your experience with Serzone), and then they are left with the main line treatments, and suffer from the effects.
--------------------------------------------------
>
> Since I went on meds back in the early 90s I've been on just about any and everything they can try on me, with sometimes benefits and sometimes not. What you say about all medications producing sexual side effects which adversely reduce sexual function is simply NOT TRUE. Not ALL drugs do this. SSRIs do, but some may do this less than others, and it's better to TRY something else in case it is a more appropriate choice than settle for a life of sexual purgatory.--------------------------------------------------
No where in my post did I say ALL meds produce sex side effects. However, SSRIs are notorious for sexual dysfunction. Tricyclics are notorious for sexual dysfunction. MAOIs are not not friendly to sex. But sex isn't the only thing to consider. Someone may find an
AD in one of these groups that they can manage to perform on, and then any one of myriad other problems could surface, necessitating them stopping.--------------------------------------------------
>
> Exercise and socializing (rather than isolating) also have more to do with saving lives from mental illness than you may be imagining. Without either the medications are simply Not Enough. For those who think their sex lives are "over" (and believe me, on Paxil that's just what happened to me), there are alternatives. But it takes diligence and experimentation.--------------------------------------------------
I don't need to take your word for it with Paxil, I tried it also. I don't refute your idea of exercise and socializing, but if depression becomes severe enough, people cannot do this.
--------------------------------------------------
>
> Wellbutrin does not depress my sex drive. When I was on Serzone with the Wellbutrin my sex drive actually increased. Serzone made me dopey, so I had to stop it. I nearly crashed my car on that stuff. But it might work for someone else. The important thing is to be proactive with the doctor and insist on being given information about every possiblity available rather than just "settle" for whatever the doctor prescribes. I've seen people in group do this, completely unaware of the fact that their are other drugs out there than Prozac, Paxil, and Zoloft.--------------------------------------------------
How do you know that people are unaware that there are other drugs?
--------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm not unsympathetic with anyone who is placing as a lower priority their sexual function over other matters; that's a matter of choice. However the benefits of medication for ME were never good enough compared with the sexual side effects. I know others feel the same. It's a topic that warrants discussion.--------------------------------------------------
I agree here. I have pretty severe anxiety and depression, and even if I'm helped by a med, I eventually become very, very frustrated with the sexual side effects, as well as weight gain. I fully realize that you are speaking for yourself, and so am I.
--------------------------------------------------
>
> So please don't tell me it's hard enough to fiind something that makes you feel better -- I've been there and I know that, and sometimes those drugs make you feel worse because of the side effects. There's nothing worse in treating depresesion to find drugs that work that you can not tolerate -- it's worse still when you are torn over living a life of sexual abstinence (as though you are being punished for getting well).--------------------------------------------------
I still contend that it is hard enough to find something that works. That doesn't go for all people, but everybody is different. I never said you hadn't "been there". I know what you mean about being "punished". I have felt that about all the intolerabilities of these meds.
--------------------------------------------------
> I never said I was freed of sexual dysfunction. You obviously read into what I wrote, not what I wrote. I still have problems -- but the drugs are likely no longer the main issue. Now my concern over these drugs is whether I can tolerate the other side effects (and that's a whole other story). But I would encourage anyone on SSRIs to talk to their doctor and insist on being given alternatives, IF they are unhappy with their sex lives as a result of the medication.
--------------------------------------------------
I think this was your statement: "I will not tolerate sexual side effects with these drugs (it isn't a matter of whether I can or not -- I simply will not)." I don't think it is such a great leap in logic to assume from that statement that you refuse to take any drugs that give you sexual side effects. Ergo, you must be free of drug side-effects that affect sexual function. Obviously my assumption has proved wrong, but I feel your first post didn't make that very clear. You mention later on that you are still experiencing some sexual dysfuntion, but you don't attribute this to current side effects, so my assumption would still be understandable. I totally agree with you (and I said something to this effect in my first post) that there are many other tolerability issues to these drugs besides the sex issue. That's why I'm contending that there are other issues to consider. The drugs that didn't affect my sexual funtion, also didn't adequately treat my problems and/or I could not tolerate them for other reasons.
--------------------------------------------------
I've tried Welbutrin. I have anxiety and OCD problems and this drug was very inappropriate for them. It didn't have much sexual dysfunction. I tried Serzone, but it knocked me flat on my ass, so I couldn't tell you what the sex side effects were. I tried Remeron, and never got passed the sedation, not to mention the weight gain. It did not affect sex. Welbutrin and Remeron did help somewhat with depression, but that's only part of my problem.
You never mentioned what cocktail you finally have arrived at that gives you minimal dysfuntion. I assume from your wording that you are no longer on Welbutrin or Serzone (and I do allow for the possiblity that this assumption is wrong).
Bob
>
Posted by OldSchool on February 10, 2002, at 19:53:40
In reply to Sexual Side Effects SUCK (ok, bad choice of words), posted by ethan on February 10, 2002, at 0:05:16
> Well, I don't know your condition or what you're taking but I hear you cuz I been there done that.
>
> I will not tolerate sexual side effects with these drugs (it isn't a matter of whether I can or not -- I simply WILL not). I've been down the Paxil and Zoloft roads (forget Prozac) and found that for me the loss of sexual function exacerbated my depression GREATLY, while the drug's "benefit" was simply to flatten out my personality and mood. This is called "Turning Into A Zombie."
You must not have real clinical depression then. Id gladly trade my left nut for a drug that blasted me out of clinical depression. I could care less if it caused delayed ejaculation in me, just so long as it actually worked good at achieving remission.I only care about REAL drug side effects like EPS, TD, neuroleptic induced parkinsons, MAOI hypertensive crises, etc. etc. etc. The typical SSRI side effects like weight gain, headaches, nausea, sexual dysfunction etc. seem like wussy trivial side effects to me after what Ive been thru.
>
> The loss of sexual function made me more frustrated than I had been, made me isolate because I was ashamed I couldn't "function" anymore, and the damage from those months and years of trying these drugs have taken their toll on my self-esteem.I dont think you had real depression to begin with...you had what I call "Woody Allen" depression. Self esteem problems, dysthymia, situational depression, etc.
>Today the meds I take are not supposed to have sexual side effects, and yet I still have difficulties -- which are no doubt the aftermath of being put through the ringer with drugs that adversely affect sexual function, along with the original and continuing effects of the depression.
>Again...to someone who has had the real deal...severe clinical depression these sorts of side effects mean diddly.
> I know you're joking about the hooker (maybe not), and it's good to see you're trying to make light of the problem through humor, but the long term psychological damage sexual dysfunction can have on you is NOT GOOD.
Neither is having major depression longterm...does weird and bad things to your body and health.
>
> Advice that was given me and which I pass along is:
>
> Talk to your doctor about getting OFF the meds you are on that are robbing you of your sex drive OR see whether you can add a med that makes you more spunky (i.e., the side effects of one drug that offsets the side effects of another drug. Serzone was quoted me as one drug that can offset sexual side effects in other drugs, for example...WB is anot supposed to adversely affect sex drive, etc.I agree, those with milder depressions would probably be better off trying to fix it without drugs.
>
> Naturally it depends on what is wrong with you, what you have tried before and what does and doesn't work for your condition (we all respond differently to different drugs and as much as the docs know about the meds they are still in the dark about plenty -- hence we are all our own guinea pigs). If sexual side effects are bothering you even a little you have to take that seriously and demand your pdoc look into and discuss with you every other treatment possibility available for your condition.
>
> A lot has to do with diet and exercise, too. Exercise especially. Most of us are sitting on our beee-hinds typing away on this BB when we could be getting a half hour of aerobic exercise (even just fast walking). I know that's a big issue for me, one which definitely also affects my capacity to function sexually. I bet most of us with depression don't exercise nearly enough, and if we did we might be able to take less meds to get enough benefit and deal with less side effects. Just a thought my doc passed along to me.Exercise can really help mild depression probs.
>
> For men especially to be robbed of their sexual identity (being relegated to the status of eunuch) is perhaps the most discouraging and underrated liability of taking psychotropic medications which adversely affect sex drive. Whether it's right or wrong, many men equate their intrinsic self worth with their ability to "rise" to various sexual occasions (so to speak). That aspect of man isn't going to change. It is, however, up to each of us to work with our doctors to find solutions to our conditions that do not emasculate us.
>
> Sex is one of the easiest things to find in this world if you really want it. There are plenty of people who are willing to have sex for a price, infinitely more who would be willing to do so "recreationally" if approached with respect and honesty. Not isolating and making ourselves available to potential partners is part of the problem also. We can sit on a BB and type away and not be "out there" meeting people. Incidentally, as soon as I finish typing this, I'm outa here to head up to the local watering hole and see if I get lucky. It takes forcing yourself to be social, or else go to a strip club and get a lap dance, or whatever. But don't isolate. Perhaps the worst thing about drugs that rob us of our sexual abilities is that we are even denied the ability to masturbate.>
> It's our choice whether we take the drugs prescribed for us and when we find the sexual side effects ruining us, our responsibility to take action. Believe me, I know -- I learned the "hard" way (bad pun).
>
> ethanAll the women I meet are super horny and Im not. Its the depression, not the drugs. The drugs dont work good in me, so the best I ever get is about 30%. I used to have a sex drive, it kind of came back some on Wellbutrin. Remeron was good for sex too. It got real strong again for a few days on Amantadine here recently. But overall my sex drive is gone. Women dont want to be involved with a depressed guy with no sex drive. Honestly, I think women are the real sex fiends, not men. LOL I wish I could keep up with them but Im just worn out physically and mentally. Im 33 and feel like 83.
Old School
Posted by Bob on February 10, 2002, at 20:44:19
In reply to Re: no sex drive anymore, posted by OldSchool on February 10, 2002, at 19:53:40
Women dont want to be involved with a depressed guy with no sex drive. Honestly, I think women are the real sex fiends, not men. LOL I wish I could keep up with them but Im just worn out physically and mentally. Im 33 and feel like 83.--------------------------------------------------
Man, I second that! I'm 33 going on 34, and I feel like I'm 83 going on 84! It makes me sad to see people who are 20, 30, even 40 or more years older than me living full lives. It hurts bad. Sometimes it absolutely astounds me what my life degenerated into.
Posted by spike4848 on February 10, 2002, at 20:59:00
In reply to Re: no sex drive anymore, posted by OldSchool on February 10, 2002, at 19:53:40
Yeah .... I am shocked when I talk to my pdoc. He will say things like "Imipramine is a good drug but many of my patients stop it because of dry mouth and constipation." I can't believe people will stop a med because of DRY MOUTH! That is absured! And yes, these patient must not be experiencing true depression. I wonder if they have every struggled getting out of bed, not have enough energy to eat/shower, been housebound for months .... probably not.
Spike
Posted by OldSchool on February 10, 2002, at 22:55:48
In reply to Real Depression » OldSchool, posted by spike4848 on February 10, 2002, at 20:59:00
> Yeah .... I am shocked when I talk to my pdoc. He will say things like "Imipramine is a good drug but many of my patients stop it because of dry mouth and constipation." I can't believe people will stop a med because of DRY MOUTH! That is absured! And yes, these patient must not be experiencing true depression. I wonder if they have every struggled getting out of bed, not have enough energy to eat/shower, been housebound for months .... probably not.
>
> Spike
Yeah...I am the same way I am absolutely amazed at this stuff I hear from people about antidepressants. I can understand if the ADs are making you manic or hypomanic or whatever. Thats a serious side effect of antidepressants. However this stuff about weight gain, dry mouth, sexual dysfunction, etc. while troubling and a pain in the ass sometimes, its not a big deal compared to real deal SEVERE clinical depression!!!Im not coming down on anybody, but I do chuckle sometimes when I read that kind of stuff. I instantly think to myself "this person never had real depression before." Thats always what pops into my mind. Id gladly trade ten or even twenty pounds weight gain and some delayed ejaculation and some dry mouth for a good drug that got me to full remission and kept me there longterm. GLADLY.
Old School
Posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 23:12:19
In reply to Re: Real Depression, posted by OldSchool on February 10, 2002, at 22:55:48
Excuse me for interrupting here....
How can you say that someone has never had real depression before? People's experiences are different and what may seem like nothing to one person may be completely debilitating to another...
> Yeah...I am the same way I am absolutely amazed at this stuff I hear from people about antidepressants. I can understand if the ADs are making you manic or hypomanic or whatever. Thats a serious side effect of antidepressants. However this stuff about weight gain, dry mouth, sexual dysfunction, etc. while troubling and a pain in the ass sometimes, its not a big deal compared to real deal SEVERE clinical depression!!!
>
> Im not coming down on anybody, but I do chuckle sometimes when I read that kind of stuff. I instantly think to myself "this person never had real depression before." Thats always what pops into my mind. Id gladly trade ten or even twenty pounds weight gain and some delayed ejaculation and some dry mouth for a good drug that got me to full remission and kept me there longterm. GLADLY.
>
> Old School
Posted by OldSchool on February 10, 2002, at 23:38:38
In reply to Re: Real Depression, posted by kiddo on February 10, 2002, at 23:12:19
> Excuse me for interrupting here....
>
> How can you say that someone has never had real depression before? People's experiences are different and what may seem like nothing to one person may be completely debilitating to another...
>
Its easy to say that. Because its the truth. Real depression is not just this sadness/hopelessness/suicidal thoughts stuff, sure thats a big part of it...the emotional part of it. But REAL depression...clinical depression...is where you have the above plus your body starts falling apart on you. Severe depression does weird things to your body. Severe depression totally screws up your sleep...and Im not talking oversleeping here. Try severe, total insomnia. Severe depression makes you lose thirty pounds without trying and makes you totally lose your appetite. Like you eat a third of your normal meal and you are full. Real depression destroys your cognition and makes you demented where you cant think clearly or remember anything. Real depression is where you totally lose your sex drive and cant get it up anymore. Real depression is where when you have an orgasm...no semen comes out you have a dry ejaculation and the orgasm feels shitty like it wansnt even a real orgasm.Real depression is a physical disease. Its not mental illness. All "mental illnesses" should be formally reclassified as Neurological diseases. I get irritated as hell when I read sleep problems in depression being described as "somatic" complaints. Fuck psychiatry. Its way more than a "somatic complaint." If you cant sleep good, your "mental health" as well as your physical health is going to deteriorate.
Im sorry to put things so graphically for you, but Im just trying to point out some major differences between REAL depression and mild depression. There ARE differences.
A person with the severe kind of depression is just grateful for any relief they get thru meds. They are grateful for just a good night of sleep...hell, just being able to sleep at all for some is a feeling of wonderment and joy. Drug side effects seem rather trivial compared to this severe kind of depression.
Im sorry to put it this way, but its just the way it really is. Too many dysthymic depressives and people with "life stress" are taking SSRIs in my opinion and obviously they get turned off by these side effects. But guess what? Many of them dont really have real depression to begin with. A lot of these kind of people just need to do the talk therapy thing and stop partying so much, cut out the booze and increase the aerobic exercise.
Youd be amazed at what cutting out booze totally will do for dysthymia.
Thats why I wish psychiatry was just formally merged into Neurology. Let the people who have real mental illness go to Neurologists. And let the people who just have mild depression or "Woody Allen depression" go to some talk therapy asshole. I dont have the patience for all this psychology/psychobabble crap after what Ive been thru. It gets on my nerves and its an insult to me after what Ive been thru. I have a REAL PHYSICAL disease and I am not going to stop taking my meds cause of "sexual dysfunction" or "dry mouth."
Old School
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