![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 944 to 968 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on May 9, 2001, at 18:01:31
In reply to Re: Effexor: MY Conclusions, posted by Irene on May 8, 2001, at 15:19:20
Hi Irene.
> >Often, when someone in your position discontinues an antidepressant and relapses, the previously effective drug is no longer effective.
> Do you know why returning to a previously effective drug is often unsuccessful?
No.
I might be tempted to try to create the "hypothesis of the day", except that it would give the false impression that the brain is so readily understandable. That is not to say that the workings of the brain are still the total mystery that they were only a few decades ago. However, far less is known than unknown, and even less is understood. What is known is that the brain, like many other components of our biology, can and does change in response to varying stimuli. When a drug is introduced to the brain for the first time, it reacts strongly to it. It is said to be "naive" to that particular drug. As time progresses, the brain and its neurons make adjustments in an effort to compensate for these new forces. They try to function in the way they think they are supposed to instead of in the way they are being forced to. Neuroscience has observed that some of these compensatory changes involve the numbers and "stickiness" of neuron receptors, increases or decreases in the amount of neurotransmitters, and the excitability of the neuron to receive and send messages.
When some drugs are discontinued, the brain does not return exactly to the same state it was prior to their introduction. I guess this can be a good thing if some of the changes produced means that it is "holding" the remission of depression. However, if the need arises for the reintroduction of the same drug, it is not encountering the same brain. There are residual changes to the brain that have been produced by its previous exposure to it. These changes may persist for years. The brain is no longer naive it, and might not react to it in the same way or as strongly. I guess you could say that the brain is less likely to be fooled by the same magic trick.
> >The risk of relapse can be significantly reduced by coming off an antidepressant very gradually. So too can be the withdrawal effects. Most people do not do this. The most likely time until relapse, should it occur, is during the first 4 months.
> I'm not clear on the above. Do you mean that if one feels well after stopping a drug, and if he/she is going to relapse, it most likely would happen within 4 months of stopping previous medication?
Yes. Exactly.
> >It might be best for you to remain wary, and perhaps keep a mood diary. If you see yourself beginning to slide back towards depression, you might want to consider returning to Effexor as soon as possible and titrate the dosage up as quickly as you can tolerate.
> Now I'm concerned. Every time I decreased from 225 to 150; 150 to 75; 75 to 37, I always got well again after a few weeks of 'yuckiness', therefore believing my depressive episode was over - that my body was able to muster up the serotonin after all. I had no relief, however, decreasing from 37 downward. Does that mean that the 2 months of yuckiness I felt then meant it was the real depression and I should have gone back to increasing Effexor instead of waiting that long? and therefore Effexor will no longer be effective for me in the future? That would be awful, because Effexor worked wonderfully for me.
I really don't think you placed yourself in a position of risk to qualify for the scenario I described above because you have not stopped taking Effexor completely nor for very long. If you and your doctor have become convinced that you need to continue treatment, everything should be peachy-keen once you return to your optimal therapeutic dosage.
Something that was mentioned by a smart person whose name I don't recall was that one must be careful not to confuse the withdrawal effects of drug discontinuation with the return of depression. I find that some drugs can exert a stimulatory or activating effect. As the drug is withdrawn, there might be a sort of stimulant let-down and fatigue with each reduction of dosage. I get the impression that the dopamine effects of Effexor are underestimated, and that such a let-down upon its discontinuation is possible.
If you are indeed relapsing into depression, raising the dosage of Effexor again will do the trick. Don't worry. :-)
> PS, are you in medical field, or are you speaking from personal experience only?
I consider myself as being in the medical field in so far as it is the field where the doctors are playing their football game. I'm only the ball.
- Scott
Posted by mvaureen on May 9, 2001, at 23:52:47
In reply to Re:Intractable Effexor Withdrawl , posted by wiley on September 2, 2000, at 19:22:01
Thanks to all of you who have submitted to this thread, I did not go to the emergency room today. I tapered the dosage, as instructed by my doctor, as I began to take Wellbutrin [I am up to 300 mgs of that]. Sunday, three days ago, I finished my last of the 37.5 mg doses of Effexor. Initially, the Wellbutrin made the trip down on Effexor easier. However, by last week I could hardly notice it working at all. I do believe that I could never have made it down to 37.5 mgs without it, though. I'm not sure that my doctor is up to date on the use of Zoloft or Prozac to assist tapering off of Effexor. My deeply traumatic depression of three years ago is still gone, even though I am experiencing ghastly withdrawal symptoms and have since two days ago when I had been off of Effexor for one day. Oddly, it is only after vomitting that the shock sensations and brain shivers are lessened to a tolerable level. While grateful that I am not in the mental and emotional state I was three years ago when I began Effexor, I had by this year developed an extraordinary lack of motivation, a need for 10-12 hours of sleep per day, a massive weight gain, and a general lethargy. I decided that the drug had sedated me too much for too long. Gone was the depression, but along came the stupor I lived in for two years. I knew that the symptoms of withdrawal were frightening and horrific, as I had missed a few doses over the last few years. I did not know, however, that without the last level of 37.5 mgs in my system, I would experience the symptoms you all have described here. My goal is to find an account of someone who has reported no withdrawal symptoms and find out how long it took for them to reach that state. If any of you know of someone like this, please post it. Like I said, I almost went to the ER tonight because I thought that I might die. Your notes helped me to realize that this might [I hope] be temporary. I have no doses of Effexor left. Strangely, I have no cravings for the drug itself -- only a desperate wish for this agony of withdrawal to be over. Much thanks, Maureen
Posted by kid47 on May 10, 2001, at 9:32:14
In reply to Re:Intractable Effexor Withdrawl , posted by mvaureen on May 9, 2001, at 23:52:47
Hi. Sorry you're having such trouble. Re: Successfull FXR discontinuation. See just about any Kid 47 posts.
Hope this helps. Take care
> Thanks to all of you who have submitted to this thread, I did not go to the emergency room today. I tapered the dosage, as instructed by my doctor, as I began to take Wellbutrin [I am up to 300 mgs of that]. Sunday, three days ago, I finished my last of the 37.5 mg doses of Effexor. Initially, the Wellbutrin made the trip down on Effexor easier. However, by last week I could hardly notice it working at all. I do believe that I could never have made it down to 37.5 mgs without it, though. I'm not sure that my doctor is up to date on the use of Zoloft or Prozac to assist tapering off of Effexor. My deeply traumatic depression of three years ago is still gone, even though I am experiencing ghastly withdrawal symptoms and have since two days ago when I had been off of Effexor for one day. Oddly, it is only after vomitting that the shock sensations and brain shivers are lessened to a tolerable level. While grateful that I am not in the mental and emotional state I was three years ago when I began Effexor, I had by this year developed an extraordinary lack of motivation, a need for 10-12 hours of sleep per day, a massive weight gain, and a general lethargy. I decided that the drug had sedated me too much for too long. Gone was the depression, but along came the stupor I lived in for two years. I knew that the symptoms of withdrawal were frightening and horrific, as I had missed a few doses over the last few years. I did not know, however, that without the last level of 37.5 mgs in my system, I would experience the symptoms you all have described here. My goal is to find an account of someone who has reported no withdrawal symptoms and find out how long it took for them to reach that state. If any of you know of someone like this, please post it. Like I said, I almost went to the ER tonight because I thought that I might die. Your notes helped me to realize that this might [I hope] be temporary. I have no doses of Effexor left. Strangely, I have no cravings for the drug itself -- only a desperate wish for this agony of withdrawal to be over. Much thanks, Maureen
Posted by mvaureen on May 10, 2001, at 10:10:33
In reply to Re:Intractable Effexor Withdrawl » mvaureen, posted by kid47 on May 10, 2001, at 9:32:14
Thanks, kid. I realize that the withdrawal symptoms were probably at their most severe yesterday [the third day]. I will not take it now! Reading more of what you and others posted, I must remember to state that I was what I thought was irretrievably depressed before Effexor. So, to those who wonder if the drug itself works -- it does. While I do not like the side effects, I must say it probably saved my life. No one who is as depressed as most patients who start Effexor should attempt simply a chemical recovery, in my opinion. My therapist changed my life dramatically for the better. I read last night that at least one user of Effexor among other drugs concludes that Effexor should be the choice as a last, not first, strike against the chemical imbalance associated with depression. I think my doctor assumed I knew how bad these withdrawal symptoms can be. Anyway, I have had to take a few days off at work. This is not the most pleasant vacation, but I realize that Effexor is a strong measure and thus is given to a strong effect during stoppage. Thanks again! Maureen
Posted by battygoth on May 10, 2001, at 17:49:24
In reply to Re: New to Effexor, posted by mtm on May 7, 2001, at 13:34:11
Seems that different people have different side effects, and oddly enough sometimes they are opposites. Really makes you wonder. Anyway, I am also new to Effexor. I have been on it 2 wks and 3 days. It is recommended to wean into this drug as well as out so I started at only 37.5mg for the first week. I felt nothing happen at this dose. Then I started the 75mg. Still no change for about another week. But the last 3 days have been hell. I have absolutely no improvement in anxiety and if anything, I'm worse. I was given this for anxiety, not depression, but I think it is making me depressed! I cannot get out of bed in the morning and I have trouble staying awake once I finally do. I have missed 2 days of private computer school which costs thousands of dollars and I cannot go on like this. I could hardly fix myself breakfast this morning and was so tired that I had to eat it in bed, put the plate down beside my bed and go back to sleep for 4 hrs. I think it is like what someone else wrote on a post I came across that was from last year. Someone mentioned having more dreams and having more vivid dreams. I have noticed past couple of days also that I am having upsetting dreams and that I am waking up in the middle of this dream stage and I think that when the brain is disturbed during this dream stage of sleep you end up feeling exhausted and not well rested and I think that is why I keep going back to sleep including sleeping for several hours in the afternoon the past few days. I took this drug with positive expectations and did not look at possible side effects so that my interpretations of how I felt would not be biased. I only started to look up possible side effects of sleepiness after I noticed this change in myself. I am really disappointed that this drug is not working out for me. I am afraid to even try other meds as I will have no idea what negative effects they will have on me and I cannot afford to miss more days of school. I injured my back and my leg from competing in bicycle racing while having scoliosis. I have permanent damage and am in chronic pain for which I am prescribed pain meds. The FXR was given to me by the pain clinic I go to. I have been unable to ride a bicycle for about 4 years and it was my whole life, it was everything to me. Now with this FXR I am having vivid dreams of trying to ride a bike again and it is immensely disturbing and upsetting. Anyone else experiencing side effects of vivid and upsetting dreams and inability to stay awake feel free to contact me at intheflatfields@hotmail.com .
Posted by Craftnkidz on May 11, 2001, at 8:32:10
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I have been taking Effexor for about 1 year. I have been experiencing my hands shaking so badly that I can hardly hold onto things and when I go to pick something up I often knock it over. I am a painter and this just can't go on any longer. Effexor seems to be working fine if I stay on 300mg daily. I do not drink any caffeine, and I lead a pretty dull life. I have tried to come down on my mg. but my depression and fatigue get worse as my shakes get better. Help! I need the medication but it is putting a damper on my work. I also experience extreeme vertigo with the lower doses, it is too much to walk at times.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Angela
Posted by Alissa on May 11, 2001, at 12:42:28
In reply to Effexor XR vs. Paxil and weight gain , posted by Louise on March 14, 2000, at 23:35:34
I have been on Paxil for about two months now. Like everyone else, it's working BUT the weight gain is horrible. Has anyone lost the weight after switching to Effexor?
Posted by Ann NY on May 11, 2001, at 15:09:18
In reply to Re: New to Effexor, posted by battygoth on May 10, 2001, at 17:49:24
I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble on Effexor. (Read my post - I started a new thead)
I have had a great experience on it. But like you, I didn't respond to a 75mg dose and it made me absolutely hypersomatic - which is a known and common initial side effect. I, like you, have slept through entire weekends. I was given a sleeping pill perscription when I started Effexor because the of the conflict of side effects - sleepy during the day and awake at night. I got Xanax and the Ambien and now nothing.
My doctor wouldn't increase my dose to 150 mg until I was on 75 mg for 4 weeks. It took 3-4 weeks for the 150 mg to kick in and suddenly I woke up one day and felt great!! At this point my energy level and sleep cycle were completely back to normal.
My anxiety was reduced after about 3 weeks at 75 mg and completely at 150 mg. Maybe you just need longer - but I also had a little help from the Xanax.
I didn't have bad dreams like you but I couldn't remember my dreams which was unusual for me. The first dream I could remember was the one on the morning I woke up feeling great - and it was a great dream!
In the begining, I was also on Ritalin which is a stimulant. It was absolutely necessary because it was taking me 4 hours to get up and brush my teeth!
I'm now at 225 mg and my anxiety and obsessive thinking are gone! The drug takes a while to kick in.
I hope you will be feeling better soon. If you've been on it this long maybe you should give it more time before you switch to another med. I stayed on it because I new there wasn't much else that would work for me - and I'm glad I did. The sleeping problem is a difficult one to deal with but it got better for me.
Posted by jerz on May 11, 2001, at 16:18:28
In reply to Re: Effexor XR vs. Paxil and weight gain , posted by Alissa on May 11, 2001, at 12:42:28
> I have been on Paxil for about two months now. Like everyone else, it's working BUT the weight gain is horrible. Has anyone lost the weight after switching to Effexor?
Hi, I switched from Celexa to Effexor and lost about 15-20 pounds. That's the good news... The bad news is that I gained 20 pounds in 2 months while weaning off the Effexor.
Everyone is different... good luck.
Jerz
Posted by Seraphim on May 11, 2001, at 17:29:00
In reply to Re: Effexor XR vs. Paxil and weight gain , posted by Alissa on May 11, 2001, at 12:42:28
> I have been on Paxil for about two months now. Like everyone else, it's working BUT the weight gain is horrible. Has anyone lost the weight after switching to Effexor?
I gained 50lbs over two years on Effexor and I eat a very low fat diet and lots of veggies. Now that I'm weaning, I'm losing the weight. Just my experience.
Posted by Ann NY on May 11, 2001, at 20:31:43
In reply to Effexor and advil?, posted by mstar on May 8, 2001, at 15:38:54
Ms
Sorry to hear you had trouble taking ibuprofen with Effexor. You said you normally don't take it. When you do, do you normally take 600 mg of Ibuprofen? Genrally the dose is 200-400mg.
I have taken ibuprofen routinely for tension headaches etc. for years so my system is used to high doses, 400-800mg. I've had no problems taking it now that I'm on Effexor.
My Dr. says that Effexor is highly compatible with most all OTC drugs as well as most prescription drugs.
As we're all learning, everyone's body is different.
I hope Tylenol will work better for you.
P.S. I know what you mean about the eating thing.
Posted by Pharma on May 12, 2001, at 5:54:32
In reply to New to Effexor, posted by Iris on May 7, 2001, at 10:33:44
> Hi,I am new to this and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how long it takes for the side effects to go away - will they at all? I started taking Effexor a week ago and I am taking 75mg a day. So far I'm having the following side effects:Trouble sleeping (I sleep for about three to four hours wake up and I'm wide awake,can't go back to sleep) plus I can't remember my dreams anymore.My jaw feels very tight with pain going into my ears.I am very! constipated :-( My arms and legs are falling asleep and I get this tingly feeling in my whole body.I constantly have sweaty palms. I did fell a little nausea for the first couple of days but that went away. I don't have much appetite. If there is someone out there who knows how long it takes for it to go away, please let me know.I am very scared taking this drug, like I said I am new to this. Thank's a lot to anyone who will answer me
I took Efexor for just over 2 years. I found out that it was a very nasty drug. I also could not remember most of my dreams. I must warn you now about the enormous effects of withdrawing of this drug before I go any further. I tapered Efexor off as slowly as I could. I started to go mad towards the end. I had a lot of suicidal and even homicidal thoughts. In a sane moment, I realised that I must get of it. I had to go into hospital when I was withdrawing. The doctors had me on 40mg of diazepam (Valium), and 100mg of chlorpromazine (Largactil, Thorazine) a day and I was still bouncing off the walls. I could not even read a whole page of a novel for about 6 months after. I could have killed someone at the drop of a hat. IT IS VERY NASTY STUFF. I warn you to stop taking it if you can. As for the tight jaw you mentioned, that sounds like a cholinergic effect. It is a very powerful drug that should be reserved for sever cases of depression. I have numb fingers now thanks to Efexor and it was over a year since I stopped taking it. Be warned.
Posted by hf on May 12, 2001, at 11:24:53
In reply to Effexor: MY Conclusions, posted by kid47 on May 7, 2001, at 14:43:15
Has anyone had any good/bad experiences with Wellbutrin? I am now off of EXR for 3 weeks and am sort of getting over the withdrawls however, I am noticing that I am also having some of the depression coming back. I was on 375 mg of EXR plus 175 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day. I stopped both but now am wondering if I should stay on the Wellbutrin for a while by itself. After the AWFUL withdrawls from EXR, I don't want to get back into something that will do the same thing to me. Does anyone have any experience as to what WB's side effects are and any problem with withdrawl from it? And how it has helped them? Or not?
Thanks!hf
Posted by battygoth on May 12, 2001, at 11:28:17
In reply to Re: New to Effexor, posted by Ann NY on May 11, 2001, at 15:09:18
-Ann NY
Thanks for the input. I'm from NY, but live in MD now. Anyway, what really angered me was that this drug was given out like candy at the pain clinic. The nurse practitioner has the authority to write prescriptions and give out free samples of FXR even tho he is not required to have any psychiatric training. Therefore, he is ill informed of side effects and how to prescribe a drug cocktail to help patients thru side effects. I just quit FXR cold turkey bec I've only been on it a short time and luckily it hasn't really made me very sick. And I am grateful that I can actually get out of bed and stay up. I am so annoyed that this nurse practioner can hand out this drug like its tylenol and he was completely unconcerned when I told him it made me sleep all day and unable to go to school. He did not care and did not offer any other medical solutions. He went as far as to ask me how I even know its FXR. He never even did a psych eval on me. He walks into the room and immediately blurts out that I have anxiety, take this. He doesn't even seem to know that different people have different types of anxiety. I admitted to having anxiety for years, well before my chronic pain incident. I did not tell him about my repetitive behaviors, hair picking, skin picking etc which would be important in determining which drug to prescribe. I was just too blinded with the idea of saving money and being able to get free med from him. Now I learned the hard way that I will have to see a qualified psychiatrist if I want to try something else. I am probably going to write a letter to the nursing board and physician boards in my state asking them to reconsider allowing non-psychiatric professionals to prescribe psychiatric drugs with serious side effects without having the necessary training background to do so and without considering how that affects the "victim" (patient). You just can't treat SSRIs or other psych drugs, whatever they consider FXR to be, like its an over the counter pain reliever or like its a bandaid cure-all. He seems to think that it is as simple as noting that someone seems anxious, but then again, how many people feel anxious when going to the doctor about a serious and chronic injury??? DUH! So to freely give out drugs like FXR w/o really examining the patient from a psychiatric standpoint is just totally absurd and irresponsible in my opinion. I just happened to have anxiety, but like I said, its nothing to do with the chronic pain because I've always had problems. It was tempting to not see a psychiatrist bec I do not currently have health insurance and they usually charge mega bucks unless I'm confusing what they charge with what psychologists/therapists charge. Anyway, I will see what I can do as I'd maybe like to try something like paroxetine as I've read it can help for people with anxiety with a touch of OCD.
-Jen C.
Posted by Cindylou on May 12, 2001, at 14:30:32
In reply to Any one with good/bad exp. w/ Wellbutrin?, posted by hf on May 12, 2001, at 11:24:53
Hi -
I am on 300 mg of Wellbutrin, and I have also just come off of Effexor. It's been about 3 or 4 weeks for me as well. So I guess we were both suffering at the same time! (UGH.) But we made it.Anyway, I was taking the Wellbutrin and Effexor together, and stayed on the Wellbutrin while going off Effexor. I have no bad side effects at all from the Wellbutrin, but it isn't really enough alone to help with my depression (I have been seeking some alternatives to SSRIs since I don't tolerate them well).
I have been on Wellbutrin in the past and then gone off of it to get pregnant -- I had NO problems at all with withdrawal symptoms. All in all, Wellbutrin has been very kind to me! In your case, I wouldn't hesitate to go back on it; it could give you the support you need right now.
Good luck, and keep me posted on what you decide to do -
-cindy> Has anyone had any good/bad experiences with Wellbutrin? I am now off of EXR for 3 weeks and am sort of getting over the withdrawls however, I am noticing that I am also having some of the depression coming back. I was on 375 mg of EXR plus 175 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day. I stopped both but now am wondering if I should stay on the Wellbutrin for a while by itself. After the AWFUL withdrawls from EXR, I don't want to get back into something that will do the same thing to me. Does anyone have any experience as to what WB's side effects are and any problem with withdrawl from it? And how it has helped them? Or not?
> Thanks!
>
> hf
Posted by kid47 on May 12, 2001, at 18:46:06
In reply to Re: New to Effexor, posted by Pharma on May 12, 2001, at 5:54:32
Hi. Sorry you had such difficulties involving FXR. There are a number of us here, including myself, who have had great results with FXR. It "cured" my treatment resistance depression & I successfuly weaned off of 300mgs FXR xr with no discontinuation fx. Just reinforces the idea that we all can respond differently to meds. Take care.
> I took Efexor for just over 2 years. I found out that it was a very nasty drug. I also could not remember most of my dreams. I must warn you now about the enormous effects of withdrawing of this drug before I go any further. I tapered Efexor off as slowly as I could. I started to go mad towards the end. I had a lot of suicidal and even homicidal thoughts. In a sane moment, I realised that I must get of it. I had to go into hospital when I was withdrawing. The doctors had me on 40mg of diazepam (Valium), and 100mg of chlorpromazine (Largactil, Thorazine) a day and I was still bouncing off the walls. I could not even read a whole page of a novel for about 6 months after. I could have killed someone at the drop of a hat. IT IS VERY NASTY STUFF. I warn you to stop taking it if you can. As for the tight jaw you mentioned, that sounds like a cholinergic effect. It is a very powerful drug that should be reserved for sever cases of depression. I have numb fingers now thanks to Efexor and it was over a year since I stopped taking it. Be warned.
Posted by hf on May 12, 2001, at 23:20:28
In reply to Re: Any one with good/bad exp. w/ Wellbutrin? » hf, posted by Cindylou on May 12, 2001, at 14:30:32
> Hi -
> I am on 300 mg of Wellbutrin, and I have also just come off of Effexor. It's been about 3 or 4 weeks for me as well. So I guess we were both suffering at the same time! (UGH.) But we made it.
>
> Anyway, I was taking the Wellbutrin and Effexor together, and stayed on the Wellbutrin while going off Effexor. I have no bad side effects at all from the Wellbutrin, but it isn't really enough alone to help with my depression (I have been seeking some alternatives to SSRIs since I don't tolerate them well).
>
> I have been on Wellbutrin in the past and then gone off of it to get pregnant -- I had NO problems at all with withdrawal symptoms. All in all, Wellbutrin has been very kind to me! In your case, I wouldn't hesitate to go back on it; it could give you the support you need right now.
>
> Good luck, and keep me posted on what you decide to do -
> -cindy
>
Thanks, Cindy! I decided today, after reading some of the archive posts, to go back on to the Wellbutrin. I am starting with one 175 mg in the morning and will do that for a week and then go back to the 2x/day routine. I am also on Klonopin (although "they" have talked about putting me on Dilantin instead) for muscle spasms due to some rather serious injuries in the past (car, horse, snow mobile wrecks). It has helped quite a bit with the anxiety, too, and I can decide how much to take from a part of to three pills/day depending on how I am doing. I usually just use 1 per day. I will see how the "just" Wellbutrin goes and if I need any different routine with the Klonopin.It's sort of a weird feeling, I guess, but it helps to know someone else was going through The Withdrawal at the same time. Not that I would wish that on ANYONE, but, if you were going to be going through it anyways, then, at least we did it together (sort of :D )
I am supposed to see my pdoc this coming Tuesday and plan to tell him what I've decided about the NO EXR!!! and to try the Wellbutrin solo. Will be interesting....
Thanks, again!
HF
Posted by mvaureen on May 13, 2001, at 1:09:03
In reply to Re: Effexor XR vs. Paxil and weight gain , posted by Alissa on May 11, 2001, at 12:42:28
Hi! I just went off of Effexor, partially because I was no longer depressed and partially because I had a tremendous weight gain over 2.5 years, accompanied by extreme lethargy. I have started Wellbutrin, which is supposed to have the opposite effect according to my doctor. He tells me that Effexor is known for causing weight gain. My experience is proof enough for me. 75 pounds worth of proof.
>I have been on Paxil for about two months now. Like everyone else, it's working BUT the weight gain is horrible. Has anyone lost the weight after switching to Effexor?
Posted by mvaureen on May 13, 2001, at 1:38:01
In reply to Any one with good/bad exp. w/ Wellbutrin?, posted by hf on May 12, 2001, at 11:24:53
Hi!
I just went off Effexor, and I know what you mean about withdrawal. I never want to go through this again. This is my seventh day, and I am only now feeling like I can someday become normal. Here's what my doctor made me do to lessen the withdrawal: start Wellbutrin [first 150 mgs, then 300 mgs]; remain on Effexor at 225 mgs [my dose] for one week, then taper down to 37.5 mgs by the fourth week; stop Effexor; take as many natural stimulants as possible; he prescribed a stimulant for me [a diet pill; then, he suggested I stop smoking [believe it or not! I thought he was crazy].
Well, Welbutrin made me feel some joy for the first time in the couple of years on Effexor. For me, Effexor was a neccessary evil: an induced stupor. The withdrawal symptoms were almost unimaginably horrid for five days, and now are tolerable. I found that if I could just get out of the bed long enough to get stimulants in, I could break the cycle of excess sleep and lethargy. I felt terribly depressed because I realized that while Effexor probably saved my life, I am quite fat now. I also realized that I was quite detached from my emotions for these couple of years and a flood of them came back by the 5th day off of Effexor. I regretted some of the things I tolerated because of the detachment created by Effexor.
However!! I am laughing at the silliness of my withdrawal horror on this, the 7th day. I find that the vertigo, brain shivers, shock sensations, fatigue, etc. created a hilarious set of experiences. I walked into a glass door. I fell over my own shoes. I cried for three days. I vomitted at embarassing and unexpected times.
As for Wellbutrin, I feel that it is a gentle mood changer. It is what I need now, and while I was flooded with emotions for a week -- it was natural after sustaining an enforced evenness for over 2 years. I feel some happiness. HERE IS AN IMPORTANT TIP: my doctor was right about not smoking with Wellbutrin. By the time the Effexor wore off, I was only taking Wellbutrin and vitamins. I forgot to take the stimulants to stop me from sleeping too much. What I thought was depression disappeared when I added the stimulants to Wellbutrin. ABOUT THE SMOKING: what I didn't realize for a day or two was that I was experiencing grotesque sensations every time I smoked. I thought the sensations were part of the already ghastly Effexor withdrawal. The cigarettes were making me sicker. At one week off of Effexor, I thank Wellbutrin from preventing me from succumbing to depression because of the withdrawal symptoms. I also realize that my doctor was right to prescribe stimulants. Until I took them, I was feeling like I was depressed. It's a side affect AND withdrawal symptom of Effexor. I hope that you avoid depression and can find success with a drug that won't leave you with the double rebound of bad side effects and withdrawal when you stop taking it. Wellbutrin, I hear, does not have those effects. According to my doctor it will stop food cravings once the withdrawal ends, permit a free range of emotions, allow more energy, and make cigarette smoking disagreeable. I didn't believe much of that. I am starting to, though! Good luck and I hope Wellbutrin works out well for both of us.
Posted by N.P. on May 13, 2001, at 1:52:43
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I started having vertigo, sleepiness and nausea the next day I started 37.5 XR. Is it even possible. Is the drug wrong for me? Plus I have mussles shaking in my arms and legs, which I've never experienced before. Any comments are appreciated.
N.P.
Posted by Ann NY on May 13, 2001, at 2:09:36
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by N.P. on May 13, 2001, at 1:52:43
My Dr. told me these are common initial side effects. THerefore don't read it as an immediate sign that it is not right for you. But it should be a sign that you might need an itial lower dose.
I was started on 25 mg of the immediate release tablets and was told to cut it in half if I got the symptoms you decribed. This way you start with the drug at lower doses and it stays in you body for a much shorter duration. Personally, I always think it is good to start with traditional immediate release tablets for ANY drug. What if you have an allergic reaction and the stuff is trapped in your body for 20 hours?
Ask your Dr. to phone in a week of 25 mg tablets. I got them free, part of my starter package, sorry to hear you didn't.
I hope Effexor works for you. Its been great for me but it took several months and slow increases in the dosage. (Read my post "Effexor: My psitive experience")
Good luck and good health.
> I started having vertigo, sleepiness and nausea the next day I started 37.5 XR. Is it even possible. Is the drug wrong for me? Plus I have mussles shaking in my arms and legs, which I've never experienced before. Any comments are appreciated.
> N.P.
Posted by N.P. on May 13, 2001, at 10:54:11
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » N.P. , posted by Ann NY on May 13, 2001, at 2:09:36
Thank you Ann for your feedback. Too bad my doctor didn't tell me all this. He also didn't tell me that what he prescribed was antidepressant. :-) I'm thinking about quitting it, since I do not like the withdrawal effects almost everyone describes. What's the point of taking it if then you have month of torture going off and then some wind up on different medication. I for sure do not have clinical depression. Might (!) have chronical. But still not sure. But before quitting I'm going to call dr. and tell him that. See what he says. Thanks againg for your posting.
N.P.> My Dr. told me these are common initial side effects. THerefore don't read it as an immediate sign that it is not right for you. But it should be a sign that you might need an itial lower dose.
>
> I was started on 25 mg of the immediate release tablets and was told to cut it in half if I got the symptoms you decribed. This way you start with the drug at lower doses and it stays in you body for a much shorter duration. Personally, I always think it is good to start with traditional immediate release tablets for ANY drug. What if you have an allergic reaction and the stuff is trapped in your body for 20 hours?
>
> Ask your Dr. to phone in a week of 25 mg tablets. I got them free, part of my starter package, sorry to hear you didn't.
>
> I hope Effexor works for you. Its been great for me but it took several months and slow increases in the dosage. (Read my post "Effexor: My psitive experience")
>
> Good luck and good health.
>
> > I started having vertigo, sleepiness and nausea the next day I started 37.5 XR. Is it even possible. Is the drug wrong for me? Plus I have mussles shaking in my arms and legs, which I've never experienced before. Any comments are appreciated.
> > N.P.
Posted by Cindylou on May 13, 2001, at 12:42:25
In reply to Re: Any one with good/bad exp. w/ Wellbutrin? » Cindylou, posted by hf on May 12, 2001, at 23:20:28
Hi again, HF ...
Funny, we are on the exact same regimen it seems -- I am also taking Klonapin (for anxiety), and I am trying to only take it when I really need it ... I only take about 1/2 or even 1/4 pill at a time, sometimes twice a day, sometimes once, sometimes every other, etc ...Anyway, you're right, it is kind of comforting to know that someone else out there is going through the same things at the same time; can understand how it feels to go through WITHDRAWAL :(, etc.
Let me know how things are going for you, and how it goes Tuesday with your pdoc!
-cindy
> Thanks, Cindy! I decided today, after reading some of the archive posts, to go back on to the Wellbutrin. I am starting with one 175 mg in the morning and will do that for a week and then go back to the 2x/day routine. I am also on Klonopin (although "they" have talked about putting me on Dilantin instead) for muscle spasms due to some rather serious injuries in the past (car, horse, snow mobile wrecks). It has helped quite a bit with the anxiety, too, and I can decide how much to take from a part of to three pills/day depending on how I am doing. I usually just use 1 per day. I will see how the "just" Wellbutrin goes and if I need any different routine with the Klonopin.
>
> It's sort of a weird feeling, I guess, but it helps to know someone else was going through The Withdrawal at the same time. Not that I would wish that on ANYONE, but, if you were going to be going through it anyways, then, at least we did it together (sort of :D )
>
> I am supposed to see my pdoc this coming Tuesday and plan to tell him what I've decided about the NO EXR!!! and to try the Wellbutrin solo. Will be interesting....
>
> Thanks, again!
>
> HF
Posted by Cindylou on May 13, 2001, at 14:12:15
In reply to Re: Any one with good/bad exp. w/ Wellbutrin?, posted by mvaureen on May 13, 2001, at 1:38:01
> I also realized that I was quite detached from my emotions for these couple of years and a flood of them came back by the 5th day off of Effexor. I regretted some of the things I tolerated because of the detachment created by Effexor.
Your comment here is so insightful -- I have been feeling the same way since I've been off of Effexor; like I let everything just roll off my back while on the drug, and now when I think about some of those things, all these emotions well up inside of me ... It's almost a scary feeling to "feel" again, but it also means I'm a living human being and not a detached zombie anymore.Glad to hear the Wellbutrin is working for you. It's not enough for me alone; my depression has been coming back. I just started St. John's Wort to see what might happen -- I'm not optimistic, but who knows?
Also, did you know that Wellbutrin is also "Zyban" -- the medication they're marketing to stop smoking? So, no wonder it made you feel horrible while you smoked! Guess that's why it helps people quit...
Take care!
cindy
Posted by hf on May 13, 2001, at 18:56:21
In reply to Re: Any one with good/bad exp. w/ Wellbutrin?, posted by mvaureen on May 13, 2001, at 1:38:01
> Well, Welbutrin made me feel some joy for the first time in the couple of years on Effexor. For me, Effexor was a neccessary evil: an induced stupor. The withdrawal symptoms were almost unimaginably horrid for five days, and now are tolerable. I found that if I could just get out of the bed long enough to get stimulants in, I could break the cycle of excess sleep and lethargy. I felt terribly depressed because I realized that while Effexor probably saved my life, I am quite fat now. I also realized that I was quite detached from my emotions for these couple of years and a flood of them came back by the 5th day off of Effexor. I regretted some of the things I tolerated because of the detachment created by Effexor.
>
> As for Wellbutrin, I feel that it is a gentle mood changer. It is what I need now, and while I was flooded with emotions for a week -- it was natural after sustaining an enforced evenness for over 2 years. I feel some happiness. HERE IS AN IMPORTANT TIP: my doctor was right about not smoking with Wellbutrin. By the time the Effexor wore off, I was only taking Wellbutrin and vitamins. I forgot to take the stimulants to stop me from sleeping too much. What I thought was depression disappeared when I added the stimulants to Wellbutrin. ABOUT THE SMOKING: what I didn't realize for a day or two was that I was experiencing grotesque sensations every time I smoked. I thought the sensations were part of the already ghastly Effexor withdrawal. The cigarettes were making me sicker. At one week off of Effexor, I thank Wellbutrin from preventing me from succumbing to depression because of the withdrawal symptoms. I also realize that my doctor was right to prescribe stimulants. Until I took them, I was feeling like I was depressed. It's a side affect AND withdrawal symptom of Effexor. I hope that you avoid depression and can find success with a drug that won't leave you with the double rebound of bad side effects and withdrawal when you stop taking it. Wellbutrin, I hear, does not have those effects. According to my doctor it will stop food cravings once the withdrawal ends, permit a free range of emotions, allow more energy, and make cigarette smoking disagreeable. I didn't believe much of that. I am starting to, though! Good luck and I hope Wellbutrin works out well for both of us.******
You know, I didn't realize how much of a stupor I was in until I read this post. Now that I think (ouch!) back on the last three years, I realize that, indeed, I was totally numbed emotionally. I started forgetting to take my EXR when I started working with a volunteer program last summer mainly because of the early and late hours. I got off schedule and just kept forgetting. The pain and other withdrawal symptoms kind of came and went with when I remembered to take my EXR but I didn't notice the correlation and I was totally uninformed. What I do see is that, during this period of on and off taking EXR I started getting angry with how my husband had not been working for most of our married life and how things had been a real nightmare with him and his undisciplined brat teenagers. I filed for divorce and kept working with the volunteer program which means I kept forgetting the EXR. To make a long story shorter, I quit taking alot of things and had honest emotions about them and did something about the situation. Thankfully, it woke up the ex, who's now the hubby again, and the kids were made to move out and grow up (both had physically threatened me - one had threatened to kill me - guess brat is a mild word :) ). Now, when I consciously decided to go off the EXR, I know more what's going on and why due to this list. No, it's no fun but the withdrawals are a necessary thing to get my life back and I am definitely willing to go the distance. Things are getting better! Your post helps because I see the reason why I have been feeling some of the emotions I have the last week or so. It had sort of been scaring me as I thought, oh, no, what's happening now?! My temper was on edge as was my emotions. But I can see them as "delayed reactions" that should have happened when I was numbed out. I started taking the Wellbutrin again yesterday starting with the 175 mg/day and will go up to the 2x/day next week and I am still on the Klonopin. My life has turned around in so many ways - mostly due to the coming to as I started off the EXR. I made decisions that I have needed to and decided to do something that I really enjoy and quit listening to those who really shouldn't have had any say in the first place. I truly believe that my pdoc kept medicating side effects and adding more of the culprit - EXR - which just made things worse. A defeating cycle, for sure!! That is over. I hope it was ignorance and not negligence on his part. I will have a better idea on this when I see him this Tuesday as I plan to tell him NO MORE EXR!!! Wellbutrin and Klonopin, YES!Oh, and the weight!! I had kept gaining weight - about 30 pounds - and hadn't been hardly eating a thing and working hard physically (the volunteering was training horses for a youth ranch). I had been perplexed! I am hypothyroid but that is being medicated and shouldn't be the problem. Hopefully, my metabolism will get back on track once the EXR is out of my system and the Wellbutrin starts kicking in.
One thing that I have found to be helpful is Gatorade and salt. The potassium, sodium, electrolyte balance seems to be important. One of the things I noticed when I started withdrawals is that my blood pressure was staying very low so I started pushing the above and I have felt quite a bit better. That and Immodium and Zantac or Prevacid to counter some of the other effects. I will try some natural stimulants like your doctor suggested. What are you taking?
Sorry so long winded but it seemed that some things clicked when I read your post. I am very thankful for the people on this list as it helps to hear "the rest of the story".... :)
HF
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