![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 70 to 94 of 226. Go back in thread:
Posted by Marchelle on February 15, 2001, at 17:40:48
In reply to Re: Thanks!, posted by bobbin on February 15, 2001, at 15:55:04
> I wanted some thoughts from you all. I posted that I'd been severe PMDD for 7 years. Tried everything and said chocolate and xanax were all I had left. Well, I tried the estrogen patch last week and had immediate (really) emotional relief, so significant I could've cried for relief but for the first time in forever I didn't feel like crying. Just totally happy again. Lots of breast pain (not tenderness) and cycle started a week later (not all that unusual). I had some of the same symptoms I'd had with pills and other estrogens, ie. anxiety; palpitations; headaches...so I cut the patch in 1/2. That helped alot until my period started, now I feel exactly like I did without the patch (while I'm bleeding), isn't that when you're supposed to get relief? So, I'm wondering...what hormone is it that drops when you start bleeding and any ideas on why I have all the PMS symptoms now? Thanks.
I have done a little research about the imbalance of hormones that is most likely causing all of our symptons. From what I understand, during PMS, Estrogen level remains normal and progesterone is too low. During menopause, the Estrogen is low and progesterone is very low. If you have access to a health foods store that carries literature, such as Whole Foods, look under PMS and you should be able to find info about Wild Yam and progesterone. I have heard from a sex therapist (PhD) that she has heard of improvement of the PMS when her patients tried a certain, all natural, progesterone topical cream. I have experiemented with it, but not enough to base a judgement on the product. It is endorsed by Dr. John Lee, a researcher of PMS and menopause, and it seems that it could be beneficial. In case you might want to check it out:
Premier Natural Gesterone Cream 1 800 370 3447Premier Nutraceuticals claims that their product will restore the body's balance and have other benefits... BUT some doctors I have spoken with associate progesterone with causing depression, this is something that I am unclear on, so further discussions with doctors and such are needed! Hope this helps.
Posted by Dan on February 16, 2001, at 15:11:13
In reply to Re: Thanks!, posted by bobbin on February 15, 2001, at 15:55:04
This is my first posting here, and in looking through the threads, it looks like there are a lot of other people going through the same types of things.
My wife and I have only been married 2 years. She is in her early 40's. It seems that nearly every month she becomes extremely irritable, moody, and angry for the week before her period (PMS?) as well as the week during, and sometimes even the week after her periods, so that she is maybe civil for only about one week a month.
My wife is an FNP (Family Nurse Practitioner) and has apparently had this going on for years. When it happens, it is definitely a Dr. Jenny/Mrs. Hyde type situation. She claims it has nothing to do with her period, and because she is an FNP, I cannot even suggest to her to possibly see a doctor about it. She has been on Prozac for quite a while, but it doesn't really seem to help much, especially around her period - it almost seems to me to make things worse. I have been told by several people that she might be bipolar, but I do not really know enough about any of this to even try to attempt to diagnose her myself - I do not understand all of this, but not only that, she would not listen to me if I did make any suggestions. I am hoping that she will somehow recognize it on her own or have her hear it from a doctor or other medical expert that she trusts and will listen to.
Last month she moved out to try to try to get her head together and deal with it all. The separation has been extremely difficult for both of us, but it sounds like she is really looking for answers to help her with her situation and I would like to help as much as possible.
The other day I saw a TV commercial which described our situation exactly (extreme depression, sadness, irritation that interfers with relationships, etc), and it mentioned that it might be PMDD and recommended to check with your doctor about PMDD and Sarafem. I was hoping to find some answers about Sarafem and found this thread and hope some of you might be able to help us. It sounds like Sarafem contains much of the same ingredients as Prozac, which she is already on, and which doesn't seem to help much.
Some of her symptoms include:
Severe mood swings
Depression, hopelessness, sadness, crying
Extreme irritability, anxiety, anger, fear
Fatigue, lethargy, lack of energy
Decreased self-esteem
Severe migraine headaches
Severe cramping
Breast pain, muscle aches
Sleep difficulties and
Insomnia followed by long periods of deep sleepShe drinks lots of coffee (which might contribute to her difficulty in sleeping which might contribute to her irritability). Whenever she has an episode, I always notice that it happens to coincide with her period (which she denies), and after it subsides, she swings the other way into being in a great mood as if nothing is wrong. It is an incredibly difficult roller coaster ride for both of us.
The irritability often causes great stress in our relationship. She is a very sweet, sensitive and intelligent woman, and I love her very much and want to stand by her and support her, but it is so difficult when this "THING" seems to get between us. I am struggling with how to help her and I am hoping that someone might please have some insight or suggestions to help us. Does any of this sound like PMS, PMDD or Bipolar to any of you? Any ideas or suggestions for what I or she can do?
Thanks for your help.
Dan
Posted by Doug Anderson on February 18, 2001, at 6:17:41
In reply to PMS vs. PMDD vs. Bipolar, posted by Dan on February 16, 2001, at 15:11:13
> Dan, I know what you are going through. The woman I love goes through the same thing. She knows that there is a problem but refuses to take drugs or go to a doctor to find an answer. I have stood by her for well over a year and continue to do so. We are not married so this is a very difficult situation. She becomes so irritable that she starts to have doubts about me and my motives for hanging around. She cuts off the relationship only to call back with sorrow and asking for forgiveness. She does not understand that I will always take her back. I may understand this better than she does. I have read volumes on this but she refuses to get better informed. I think this is because she feels that there is more to this than just PMDD. She fits the classic PMDD mold as it seems your wife does.
From what I have been able to determine, the drugs work for some but not all. There has been some success with progesterone cream but it must be natural progesterone. There may be some help with a combination of SSRI drugs and progesterone.
I don't know any real answers except to hang in there. Love is stronger that this. I have not wavered in my love and caring even if the relationship has a big problem. I keep trying to convince her that this is not her, it is her body. Just keep reassuring her of your love and support. Unfortunately a big part of all this is denial during the good times and a frame of mind that is not condusive to getting help when things are bad.
There is a book that I can recommend. You may be able to find it on Amazon.com or barnesand noble.com. It is: Women's Moods by Deborah Sichel MD and Jeanne Watson Driscoll. It really explains and clears up a lot of the mysteries. It may be of a great help especially if you can get your wife to read it. I hope to get my sweet lady to read it too. Just remember that your wife loves you too. Even during the worst times you have to believe. I have had to suffer through some of the most horrible words I have ever heard in my life but in the end I remember that she is suffering so much more. I could not imagine going through all this myself. If all you can do is support than that is what you must do. There is something else that might help you. There is a short passage in the bible 1Corinthians 13:7. It is a great definition of love. When I am about to give up I read this passage. I then suck it up and start again. If there is anything I can do for you just e-mail me. You may have some ideas yourself. I am open to anything. Good luck. You sound like me. Keep trying!! Doug
Posted by Wendy on February 18, 2001, at 7:38:33
In reply to Re: Thanks!, posted by bobbin on February 15, 2001, at 15:55:04
A dear friend of mine has had difficulties with her menstral cycle since it started at age 13. She's now 32 and has FINALLY found something that seems to be working. She'd tried Paxil, Sarafem, Prozac, and a whole host of similar typed meds in her search for emotional/physical balance.
She has since seen a female doctor who is a specialist in women's medicine and has had her hormone levels diligently tested/watched/graphed and the works. To her doctor's surprise, her hormone levels were WAY WAY off balance! And it's been tested for enough cycles to establish that it is DIRECTLY linked to her cycle!
Now she's on hormone therepy geared towards her own individual needs (as opposed to the pre-packaged kits most doctors prescribe), and it's had a significant effect for her.
She did say, however, that the past few months have been all-consuming with the charting/journal writing so that as many details could be presented and studied by her doctor. So other than her (laughingly) obsessive tendancy to analyze EVERY physical twinge and emotional thought, she's so releived to be on a road that looks like it will lead her to this much needed BALANCE! So, maybe you need to investigate hormone therapy with a specialist.
Posted by Wendy on February 18, 2001, at 7:51:40
In reply to PMS vs. PMDD vs. Bipolar, posted by Dan on February 16, 2001, at 15:11:13
Dan - first, I need to say "Don't give up!" Just your obvious concern and effort say a whole lot about your feelings for your wife. Try to remember that what she is going through is NOT a conscious choice! Believe me - I know because I was once quite the same 'wife' to my husband for years! He stuck by - and is reaping the rewards!
Second, I also looked into bi-polar disorder for myself a few years ago (yep, it's been going on for a while), and quickly learned that it is a VERY specific disorder and much, much more clinical than PMDD or PMDD/mild depression. Starting out at the least worrysome of possibilities is probably your best bet.
I am one of the fortunate ones who started on 20mg/day of Paxil and noticed a nearly immediate change in my 'state of mind'. It's working wonders for me and hopefully will for the near future. I'm not wanting to go into 'trial and error' with meds as some woman have to.
Another lead might be hormone therapy for your wife. That's a lot more inclusive and complicated than simply trying meds to help adjust seratonin levels - it would be exhausting just THINKING about it.
Lastly, know that one of the most difficult aspects of all this for myself (and many other women, I'm sure), was that I 'couldn't handle it all by myself'! The fact that I couldn't fix whatever was wrong with me was an extremely bitter pill to swallow! I'm supposed to be supermom, superwife, superfriend, superemployee, etc., etc. Asking for help was one of the most difficult tasks I've undertaken; it also proved to be the smartest move I've made in a long time!
This is pretty scary stuff, for you both. Remember that, and allow for the fear and anger when it comes. Then remind yourself that there IS help out there and your wife has every right and reason to ask for it!
Posted by Marchelle on February 18, 2001, at 11:53:34
In reply to Re: Thanks! - Marchelle, posted by Wendy on February 18, 2001, at 7:38:33
> A dear friend of mine has had difficulties with her menstral cycle since it started at age 13. She's now 32 and has FINALLY found something that seems to be working. She'd tried Paxil, Sarafem, Prozac, and a whole host of similar typed meds in her search for emotional/physical balance.
>
> She has since seen a female doctor who is a specialist in women's medicine and has had her hormone levels diligently tested/watched/graphed and the works. To her doctor's surprise, her hormone levels were WAY WAY off balance! And it's been tested for enough cycles to establish that it is DIRECTLY linked to her cycle!
>
> Now she's on hormone therepy geared towards her own individual needs (as opposed to the pre-packaged kits most doctors prescribe), and it's had a significant effect for her.
>
> She did say, however, that the past few months have been all-consuming with the charting/journal writing so that as many details could be presented and studied by her doctor. So other than her (laughingly) obsessive tendancy to analyze EVERY physical twinge and emotional thought, she's so releived to be on a road that looks like it will lead her to this much needed BALANCE! So, maybe you need to investigate hormone therapy with a specialist.Wendy, You have made a good point and I think that we have been brought back to the original point of issue, hormones and our cycles! Because really, we are at mercy to them. When our hormones are out of whack we HAVE to do something other than suffer. I am glad that your friend was able to find a way to balance her hormones. I am interested when you said that your friend is finding the relief that she didn't achieve with the anti-depressents... I, too, sought out a hormone specialist. I was very excited before going to see her, thinkning that I would be seeing someone who would take time to listen and really investigate a way to help solve my severe PMS. I was rather dissapointed when I walked out of her office only after, literally, five minutes of speaking with her, carrying a prescription for a mood-altering drug (Sarafem). I guess this can go out as advice to others, as well, as myself. Try to find a hormone specialist who will take the time and work with you and isn't so eager to just write out a prescritpion!
Posted by Noa on February 19, 2001, at 13:45:40
In reply to Re: hormones-Thanks! -Wendy, posted by Marchelle on February 18, 2001, at 11:53:34
If your wife has moved out, it is clear your marriage is really at risk. Is she willing to get help with you to try to save the marriage?
How much of an impact have her mood problems had on other areas of her life? Has she been suicidal? Has it affected her job?
Besides couples therapy, it sounds like she might need to consult a reproductive endocrinologist, or a psychiatrist specializing in mood disorders caused by hormone problems.
I saw the book that Doug mentioned--about women's moods. I only skimmed through a bit of it, but it looks like it has a lot of info that could help.
Good luck.
Posted by Wendy on February 19, 2001, at 17:18:41
In reply to Re: hormones-Thanks! -Wendy, posted by Marchelle on February 18, 2001, at 11:53:34
> >I was rather dissapointed when I walked out of her office only after, literally, five minutes of speaking with her, carrying a prescription for a mood-altering drug (Sarafem).< <
Unfortunately, in this day and age, doctors often need to be affronted and put back on a human level before they can REALLY treat YOU as an individual - not a symptom.
As with my friend, you may have the unfortunate task of years and years for visiting/conferring with doctors and specialists before one actually DOES listen to YOU and what YOU are saying/feeling. I think doctors have forgotten that we are all individuals, and deserve to be treated as such.
Good luck in your endeavers.
I guess this can go out as advice to others, as well, as myself. Try to find a hormone specialist who will take the time and work with you and isn't so eager to just write out a prescritpion!
Posted by Cathrine on February 20, 2001, at 12:35:41
In reply to Re: PMDD - Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, posted by R.Anne on November 17, 2000, at 20:57:48
I have recently been looking for answers to my own emotional and physical ailments surrounding my menstral cycle. I began seeing a counselor because my husband thought I was depressed. I would hit extreme lows the week of my cycle but come out of it within the week. So 3 out of 4 weeks of the month I'm ok. The conflict? In the last 5 years I have experienced a move, a divorce, the sudden death of a man I was dating, dated a man who became involved in ponography, finished a Master's degree, started a Doctorate degree, and remarried. My counselor thinks that all of the trauma and change have just caused my serotonin levels to be drastically reduced and says I suffer from depression. But I think its something else - PMDD. Because it is so closely related to my cycle. Now I don't know what to do! Continue to see her or go to another doctor? I recently started a low dose of Paxil but haven't had my cycle since and am curious to see what happens. Any suggestions on how to handle this? Should I arm myself to the teeth with information on PMDD before I go to someone else? Any ideas will help.
Cathrine
Posted by judy1 on February 20, 2001, at 13:51:22
In reply to Re: PMDD vs depression, posted by Cathrine on February 20, 2001, at 12:35:41
I'm sorry you have gone through so much recently, I know when I go through stressful times my cycling (bipolar) increases. But if you have charted your mood swings to your period, then that deserves to be seriously considered. I know my shrink had some patients he put on an SSRI the week before their period with success. If you are in a University setting then I would seek out a specialist in PMDD and present him/her with your charts. Best of luck- Judy
Posted by Noa on February 20, 2001, at 15:04:35
In reply to Re: PMDD vs depression, posted by Cathrine on February 20, 2001, at 12:35:41
Maybe it isn't an either-or thing. The book "screaming to be heard" has a nice graphic of how stress interacts with biology to cause lots of hormonal changes that could include mood problems. this is a good bood to take a look at.
Posted by Paulette on February 20, 2001, at 15:13:11
In reply to Marchelle, posted by Wendy on February 19, 2001, at 17:18:41
> > >I was rather dissapointed when I walked out of her office only after, literally, five minutes of speaking with her, carrying a prescription for a mood-altering drug (Sarafem).< <
>
> Unfortunately, in this day and age, doctors often need to be affronted and put back on a human level before they can REALLY treat YOU as an individual - not a symptom.Hi Everyone! I just started peaking at this site about two weeks ago and I was at a low when I first posted, then thrilled because for the first time in almost two years I had a painless cycle! That was last week. I have now been on Sarafem for 3 months going on 4, and that was the first cycle with relief...however...I am at day 13 of my cycle...ovulation....and I have turned into Mrs Hyde..I am snappy, crabby, relatively just plain bitchy, and I even yelled at the baby (almost 2) 4 times yesterday....this started yesterday...I also have severe swelling in my hands and feet again, and I noticed pain and burning in my lower right abdomen yesterday...which thankfully is gone today...I am so mad about this...I thought for sure I was on the way out of this horrible mess of PMDD, I need some advice here.....I really was doing soooo good! I was productive and calm at home for almost two weeks this time and now it is just gone! I may have to retract my statement about the Sarafem...I thought it was doing really good....it has with some things and now this????
>
Posted by Marchelle on February 20, 2001, at 22:59:13
In reply to Re: Marchelle, posted by Paulette on February 20, 2001, at 15:13:11
> > > >I was rather dissapointed when I walked out of her office only after, literally, five minutes of speaking with her, carrying a prescription for a mood-altering drug (Sarafem).< <
> >
> > Unfortunately, in this day and age, doctors often need to be affronted and put back on a human level before they can REALLY treat YOU as an individual - not a symptom.
>
> Hi Everyone! I just started peaking at this site about two weeks ago and I was at a low when I first posted, then thrilled because for the first time in almost two years I had a painless cycle! That was last week. I have now been on Sarafem for 3 months going on 4, and that was the first cycle with relief...however...I am at day 13 of my cycle...ovulation....and I have turned into Mrs Hyde..I am snappy, crabby, relatively just plain bitchy, and I even yelled at the baby (almost 2) 4 times yesterday....this started yesterday...I also have severe swelling in my hands and feet again, and I noticed pain and burning in my lower right abdomen yesterday...which thankfully is gone today...I am so mad about this...I thought for sure I was on the way out of this horrible mess of PMDD, I need some advice here.....I really was doing soooo good! I was productive and calm at home for almost two weeks this time and now it is just gone! I may have to retract my statement about the Sarafem...I thought it was doing really good....it has with some things and now this????
> >Wow, this is really unfortunate. Did you report these problems with your doc? Did she/he offer any advice? I know it must be very frustrating, but maybe more time is needed before it is time to give up, or try another treatment. It seems that you are taking Sarafem for other reasons (physical) than the mood problems which Sarafem advertises to correct. I am still new to this whole thing, but I don't understand how an antidepressent is supposed to relieve physical discomfort such as your swollen hands and painful abdomen. Do you understand this? Sorry to hear about this, try to keep your chin up...
Posted by Wendy on February 21, 2001, at 7:25:54
In reply to Re: Marchelle, posted by Paulette on February 20, 2001, at 15:13:11
Don't get too discouraged! Allow for your body to be going through another adjustment phase, and put yourself BACK INTO that positive frame of mind when you WERE feeling good.
Sitting around and waiting for the next bad day/hour/minute to come along is just as bad as 'expecting' it to be worse than it could be.
Positive thinking, and let your system go through another few cycles before you make up your mind that the meds aren't working! (oh, and if you yell at your kids, that's o.k. too. They'll accept an honest "I'm sorry" and a hug from you pretty well)
Posted by Ron Hill on February 21, 2001, at 11:13:47
In reply to PMS vs. PMDD vs. Bipolar, posted by Dan on February 16, 2001, at 15:11:13
Dan,
I want to commend you for your faithful commitment to your wife. I am bipolar and the symptoms you listed for your wife might indicate a BP dx. Here is a link to an on-line diagnostic test. If your wife is not willing to take the test, perhaps you could take the test answering in your wife's stead. Obviously, one needs to be extremely careful with any kind of self-diagnosis generated dx. With that said, however, the on-line test may be of some benefit.
http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr71.html
Also, you mentioned that she is taking Prozac. Is it a pdoc or a fdoc writing the script? What is the dx according to the doctor prescribing the Prozac?
-- Ron
-----------------------------------------------
> This is my first posting here, and in looking through the threads, it looks like there are a lot of other people going through the same types of things.
>
> My wife and I have only been married 2 years. She is in her early 40's. It seems that nearly every month she becomes extremely irritable, moody, and angry for the week before her period (PMS?) as well as the week during, and sometimes even the week after her periods, so that she is maybe civil for only about one week a month.
>
> My wife is an FNP (Family Nurse Practitioner) and has apparently had this going on for years. When it happens, it is definitely a Dr. Jenny/Mrs. Hyde type situation. She claims it has nothing to do with her period, and because she is an FNP, I cannot even suggest to her to possibly see a doctor about it. She has been on Prozac for quite a while, but it doesn't really seem to help much, especially around her period - it almost seems to me to make things worse. I have been told by several people that she might be bipolar, but I do not really know enough about any of this to even try to attempt to diagnose her myself - I do not understand all of this, but not only that, she would not listen to me if I did make any suggestions. I am hoping that she will somehow recognize it on her own or have her hear it from a doctor or other medical expert that she trusts and will listen to.
>
> Last month she moved out to try to try to get her head together and deal with it all. The separation has been extremely difficult for both of us, but it sounds like she is really looking for answers to help her with her situation and I would like to help as much as possible.
>
> The other day I saw a TV commercial which described our situation exactly (extreme depression, sadness, irritation that interfers with relationships, etc), and it mentioned that it might be PMDD and recommended to check with your doctor about PMDD and Sarafem. I was hoping to find some answers about Sarafem and found this thread and hope some of you might be able to help us. It sounds like Sarafem contains much of the same ingredients as Prozac, which she is already on, and which doesn't seem to help much.
>
> Some of her symptoms include:
> Severe mood swings
> Depression, hopelessness, sadness, crying
> Extreme irritability, anxiety, anger, fear
> Fatigue, lethargy, lack of energy
> Decreased self-esteem
> Severe migraine headaches
> Severe cramping
> Breast pain, muscle aches
> Sleep difficulties and
> Insomnia followed by long periods of deep sleep
>
> She drinks lots of coffee (which might contribute to her difficulty in sleeping which might contribute to her irritability). Whenever she has an episode, I always notice that it happens to coincide with her period (which she denies), and after it subsides, she swings the other way into being in a great mood as if nothing is wrong. It is an incredibly difficult roller coaster ride for both of us.
>
> The irritability often causes great stress in our relationship. She is a very sweet, sensitive and intelligent woman, and I love her very much and want to stand by her and support her, but it is so difficult when this "THING" seems to get between us. I am struggling with how to help her and I am hoping that someone might please have some insight or suggestions to help us. Does any of this sound like PMS, PMDD or Bipolar to any of you? Any ideas or suggestions for what I or she can do?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Dan
Posted by Paulette on February 21, 2001, at 20:20:17
In reply to Re: Marchelle, posted by Wendy on February 21, 2001, at 7:25:54
> Don't get too discouraged! Allow for your body to be going through another adjustment phase, and put yourself BACK INTO that positive frame of mind when you WERE feeling good.
>
> Sitting around and waiting for the next bad day/hour/minute to come along is just as bad as 'expecting' it to be worse than it could be.
>
> Positive thinking, and let your system go through another few cycles before you make up your mind that the meds aren't working! (oh, and if you yell at your kids, that's o.k. too. They'll accept an honest "I'm sorry" and a hug from you pretty well)Today was another really rough day....I have what I call crash episodes occasionally...where out of the blue I just HAVE to lay down and take a nap. It seems to happen more during this time of my cycle. I have not spoken to the doctor yet, I am keeping a journal of the end of the last cycle through this one and the beginning of the next. Appointment with him is March 22nd again because I had abnormal cells in a pathology report from a mass on my cervix in December. So I have been writing down everything so I dont forget. I am going to mail it to him before my appointment so that he has time to read it. I started out really good this morning and then it nose dived. He gave me Zanax for when I am having my insomnia attacks right before my period and then he told me to take a half when I feel out of control So I did yesterday and today....I calmed out very well yesterday, but today had to go take a short drive by myself...I thought that the Sarafem was for physical as well as mental symptoms of PMDD. Maybe I read the insert wrong. I will go back and look. Thanks for the support. How is everyone else doing on this right now? And how do you know if you should be looking at hormone therapy????
Posted by jmoyer3 on February 21, 2001, at 23:05:20
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by Noa on January 8, 2001, at 6:13:04
> Sarafem=Prozac, I believe
Yes, for history of the drug, see article http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0049/spartos.shtml
Posted by Marchelle on February 22, 2001, at 1:37:46
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by jmoyer3 on February 21, 2001, at 23:05:20
> > Sarafem=Prozac, I believe
>
> Yes, for history of the drug, see article http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0049/spartos.shtmlGood article. I definitely agree with the article that this new push for the PMDD diagnosis and an anti-depressent to treat it reinforces a negative stigma associated with women's mentrual cycles. I mentioned earlier that I was given a Sarafem Rx after talking to a doctor about my symptons for five minutes. It was the first time I was in to see this "hormone specialist" and had to make an appointmet a month in advance. No mention of a daily diary was made. This article calls attention to the intentions of the makers of Sarafem. All this suggests revalutation of the PMDD diagnosis and ways to go about handeling women's suffering other than taking Sarafem. How discouraging for those who have tried all the natural ways without succes...
Posted by meg_bat2000 on February 23, 2001, at 12:38:53
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by Marchelle on February 22, 2001, at 1:37:46
I am 28 years old and was diagnosed with endometriosis seven years ago after years of suffering from massive PMS (major mood swings that would last for at least two weeks, cramps that I would have to practically overdose on Motrin for, bloating, irregular periods, etc.). I have had two surgeries for the endo (I am/was only in Stage I) and have been on five different kinds of birth control pills to control the physical pain from the endo, which has worked successfully. Now I am battling the emotional/mental aspect. I have started paying more attention to the vitamins and minerals that I take, under suggestion from an endometriosis book and guidance from my doctor and I must say that I have noticed a great difference in my mood swings simply by increasing my intake of vitamin B-6. However, it does not help with the PMS I have/get about a day or two just before my period; this lasts for about three to four days from the onset. It is very bad - I get/feel very self-destructive and/or sad, which I can control to a certain degree. Another thing I have noticed is that I tend to get naseous during this time too. I am already on Prozac (I have been on it for several years for PMS), so Sarafem does not look like an alternative for me since it appears to be very similar. Am I suffering from PMDD (I am very wary of this term)? I don't believe that this emotional/mental impairment is due to the endo or something like depression since it only happens right before my period like clockwork. What other options do I have? -- Meg
Posted by ARR on February 25, 2001, at 18:27:20
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by Marchelle on February 22, 2001, at 1:37:46
Dear Marcelle
Try not to be discouraged. I believe that there is hope. Many times the natural solutions fail because the changes that people make are not comprehensive enough. PMS is not a seratonin deficiency. It is often the expression of many imbalances in the bodies hormonal biochemistry and trying to alter one small part of that may not be sufficient.
(Let's take the example of B6: B6 supplementation will often fail if magnesium is lacking, and even B6 and magnesium are is only a small part of the picture}
I've recently attended a presented by Dr. Jeffry Bland that is currently being give to hundreds of nutritionally oriented physicians around the country. This seminar presented an overview of many factors that can contribute to hormone imbalance associated with PMS. It also presented a research study done on a nutritional product called Estrobalance which addresses a broad spectrum of the imbalances that leads to PMS. This includes therapeutic levels of B6, folic acid, magnesium, zinc, flax, and a blend of isoflavones provided in a rice based protein/carbohydrate balanced medical food. The study that was performed with this medical food showed dramatic and statistically significant results in women who followed the program a two month period of time.
If you are interested in finding someone who can help you with this, go to Metagenics.com and you can be directed to a list of practitioners in your area who would be familiar with it.
I think that this represents a tremendous clinical breakthrough and that it will offer many women true hope rather than the false hope that I feel the Prozac family of drugs offers. On that note, I would highly recommend reading the book Prozac Backlash. This was writtten by a Harvard psychiatrist who used these medications for many years and began finding alarming symptoms that lead him to research the scientific literature on these drugs. What he turned up is nothing short of terrifying. Anyone who is on or who is considering taking any of these drugs must read this book.
I hope this helps, and don't give up hope. There are viable alternatives that do work. The fact that these are so little known is indirectly explained in this book. The Prozac family of drugs generates more than $4,000,000,000 is sales per year. The lack of research and news concerning effective natural solutions is not an accident.
ARR
> > > Sarafem=Prozac, I believe
> >
> > Yes, for history of the drug, see article http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0049/spartos.shtml
>
> Good article. I definitely agree with the article that this new push for the PMDD diagnosis and an anti-depressent to treat it reinforces a negative stigma associated with women's mentrual cycles. I mentioned earlier that I was given a Sarafem Rx after talking to a doctor about my symptons for five minutes. It was the first time I was in to see this "hormone specialist" and had to make an appointmet a month in advance. No mention of a daily diary was made. This article calls attention to the intentions of the makers of Sarafem. All this suggests revalutation of the PMDD diagnosis and ways to go about handeling women's suffering other than taking Sarafem. How discouraging for those who have tried all the natural ways without succes...
Posted by Doug Anderson on February 26, 2001, at 7:50:49
In reply to experience w/ sarafem » Paulette, posted by Marchelle on February 20, 2001, at 22:59:13
> > > > The physiology of each woman is very complicated. There are variations in each womans cycle can be explaned by the amout of estrogen secreted by the follicle as it matures. Estrogen enhances the amount of tryptophan in the brain which is a precursor to serotonin. Serotonin is the chemical in the brain responsible for mood stability. After ovulation, if an egg is not fertilized, levels of estrogen fall off. This rapid decrease may also decrease the availability of serotonin. Those of you who are sensitive to this fall off experience mood swings. If estogen levels are low from a particular follicle this may increase your symptoms in a particular month. Your estrogen levels are not constant from month to month. This month may be bad but the next may not be. Some women can tell which overy is active just by the symptoms they are having. Therefore a constant dose of Sarafem may be good for one month and not the next. This is a delemma. You don't want to have a higher dose just to cover the worst month. The matter of bloating and secondary symptoms is not clear since prostaglandins are responsible for this and SSRI's like Prozac(Sarafem) do not affect this. There is a very good book out there to explain alot of this called Women's Moods by Deborah Sichel and Jeanne Watson Driscoll. You may have to go on line to Amazon or Barnes and Noble to find it. I highly recomend it. I hope I was some help. Hang in there! Next cycle may be better.
Posted by super on February 26, 2001, at 13:51:34
In reply to Re: experience w/ sarafem, posted by Doug Anderson on February 26, 2001, at 7:50:49
Hi Doug,
Since you seem to know a lot about this, can I ask you a couple basic questions? Why would I still have PMS when I'm on birth control pills, since they regulate the amount of estrogen, etc in your body? Also, would a high estrogen birth control pill help control moods due to the seratonin connection?
Thanks!
> > > > > The physiology of each woman is very complicated. There are variations in each womans cycle can be explaned by the amout of estrogen secreted by the follicle as it matures. Estrogen enhances the amount of tryptophan in the brain which is a precursor to serotonin. Serotonin is the chemical in the brain responsible for mood stability. After ovulation, if an egg is not fertilized, levels of estrogen fall off. This rapid decrease may also decrease the availability of serotonin. Those of you who are sensitive to this fall off experience mood swings. If estogen levels are low from a particular follicle this may increase your symptoms in a particular month. Your estrogen levels are not constant from month to month. This month may be bad but the next may not be. Some women can tell which overy is active just by the symptoms they are having. Therefore a constant dose of Sarafem may be good for one month and not the next. This is a delemma. You don't want to have a higher dose just to cover the worst month. The matter of bloating and secondary symptoms is not clear since prostaglandins are responsible for this and SSRI's like Prozac(Sarafem) do not affect this. There is a very good book out there to explain alot of this called Women's Moods by Deborah Sichel and Jeanne Watson Driscoll. You may have to go on line to Amazon or Barnes and Noble to find it. I highly recomend it. I hope I was some help. Hang in there! Next cycle may be better.
Posted by Marchelle on February 26, 2001, at 20:10:16
In reply to Re: Sarafem=Prozac(np), posted by ARR on February 25, 2001, at 18:27:20
ARR: Since my active involvement with trying to correct my PMS and its effects, I have spent much time researching literature at my health food store. I have found an essiental oil blend for women, daily vitamins designed for women and calcium and magnesium supplements. I have been taking them according to the recommendations in the wonderful book, "Prescriptions for Nutritional Healing" suggested for treatment of PMS. I am not yet expecting the uncomfortable symptoms of PMS for a couple more days, but I can already percieve an improvement in a consistant, healthy, and elevated mood for the last 2 1/2-3 weeks. Thank you for the suggestion of Estrobalance, it is definitely something that I will look into.
Also... I have really been keeping up with all the posts. Every one has been so helpful! Thank you and best wishes!
> Dear Marcelle
>
> Try not to be discouraged. I believe that there is hope. Many times the natural solutions fail because the changes that people make are not comprehensive enough. PMS is not a seratonin deficiency. It is often the expression of many imbalances in the bodies hormonal biochemistry and trying to alter one small part of that may not be sufficient.
>
> (Let's take the example of B6: B6 supplementation will often fail if magnesium is lacking, and even B6 and magnesium are is only a small part of the picture}
>
> I've recently attended a presented by Dr. Jeffry Bland that is currently being give to hundreds of nutritionally oriented physicians around the country. This seminar presented an overview of many factors that can contribute to hormone imbalance associated with PMS. It also presented a research study done on a nutritional product called Estrobalance which addresses a broad spectrum of the imbalances that leads to PMS. This includes therapeutic levels of B6, folic acid, magnesium, zinc, flax, and a blend of isoflavones provided in a rice based protein/carbohydrate balanced medical food. The study that was performed with this medical food showed dramatic and statistically significant results in women who followed the program a two month period of time.
>
> If you are interested in finding someone who can help you with this, go to Metagenics.com and you can be directed to a list of practitioners in your area who would be familiar with it.
>
> I think that this represents a tremendous clinical breakthrough and that it will offer many women true hope rather than the false hope that I feel the Prozac family of drugs offers. On that note, I would highly recommend reading the book Prozac Backlash. This was writtten by a Harvard psychiatrist who used these medications for many years and began finding alarming symptoms that lead him to research the scientific literature on these drugs. What he turned up is nothing short of terrifying. Anyone who is on or who is considering taking any of these drugs must read this book.
>
> I hope this helps, and don't give up hope. There are viable alternatives that do work. The fact that these are so little known is indirectly explained in this book. The Prozac family of drugs generates more than $4,000,000,000 is sales per year. The lack of research and news concerning effective natural solutions is not an accident.
>
> ARR
>
> > > > Sarafem=Prozac, I believe
> > >
> > > Yes, for history of the drug, see article http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0049/spartos.shtml
> >
> > Good article. I definitely agree with the article that this new push for the PMDD diagnosis and an anti-depressent to treat it reinforces a negative stigma associated with women's mentrual cycles. I mentioned earlier that I was given a Sarafem Rx after talking to a doctor about my symptons for five minutes. It was the first time I was in to see this "hormone specialist" and had to make an appointmet a month in advance. No mention of a daily diary was made. This article calls attention to the intentions of the makers of Sarafem. All this suggests revalutation of the PMDD diagnosis and ways to go about handeling women's suffering other than taking Sarafem. How discouraging for those who have tried all the natural ways without succes...
Posted by ladytj on March 2, 2001, at 2:14:42
In reply to PMDD - Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, posted by Jan on March 1, 1999, at 10:54:47
> PMDD - I'm looking for anyone being treated for it, and I'd like to know what the treatment consists of. I'm in my 30's and anti-depressant meds don't help at all. My Dr says that I'm to young for Estrogen therapy. I'm running out of options. Any information would be appriciated.
>
> Thank you.I really think that this whole thing is a farce to say the least. Granted women have the tears, the bloating,the not wanting to be around anyone thing and of course the additude, but you can't tell me the it is now called a disorder!...it is mother nature, it is the way it has been since Adam and Eve. Having a period is no different then having a bad hair day!..so get over it..this whole disorder thing is nothing but a medical term for "The monthly curse", "Aunt Raggy coming to visit","On the rag". Im 35 and have NEVER wanted to kill someone or wanted to make my family miserable. I am the one that is miserable, I have to deal with it, not them!!!!!!!!
By the way..Let Go Let God!!!!
Posted by Wendy on March 2, 2001, at 4:07:45
In reply to Re: PMDD - Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder, posted by ladytj on March 2, 2001, at 2:14:42
What an obtuse way of thinking! If we didn't intervene when modern medicine allowed for it, our civilization would not be as prosperous nor as healthy as it is today.
Your statement amounts to nothing more than gobblidee-goop! If we just "let nature take it's course" as you would have us do, then my father's cancer would have surely been the end to a wonderous part of my existence and a loss for many, many people.
This is a SUPPORT board! While opinions are valued here, negative ignorance is not. Perhaps you should educate yourself on the subject of women's health and PMDD in particular, then come back and join the discussion.
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