![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Katz on February 4, 2001, at 9:45:07
Hi,
After failing an amisulpride trial, I am planning to begin a trial of REQUIP. I would have preferred the Mirapex (as AndrewB) recommended but found the cost prohibitive. I understand that the Requip is very similar to the Mirapex. Andrew if you're reading this, what is the dosing schedule? I would appreciate any feedback from anyone who had tried this drug. Thanks,
Kathy
Posted by AndrewB on February 4, 2001, at 22:56:29
In reply to REQUIP - questions about dosing AndrewB, posted by Katz on February 4, 2001, at 9:45:07
Kathy,
Sorry the amisulpride doesn't seem to work for you.
I can give you the REQUIP dosages but I think it would be better, if you don't mind, if we step back and look over your situation first.
Your sleepiness induced by bromocriptine is troubling. I haven't heard of that before. Bromocriptine is a D-2 agonist while Mirapex and Requip are D2/D3 agonists. Bromo. as an AD, on the occassions it works,seems to eventually poop out. It has been speculated that Mirapex's better response rate and lack of poop out (I haven't heard or read of mirapex poop out so far) is due to its D3 receptor activity. Yes, I'm wondering if Requip won't just knock you out like Bromo.
Anyway, if you don't mind, give a history of the medications (and even recreational drugs) you've taken, your responses to them and what your symtomology is. Hopefully if I can't, somebody else on this board can make some sense of it. If you don't wish to be so public you can email me at andrewb@seanet.com.
Without such information, our suggestions will probably be just rainbows that get your hopes up but disappear when you actually try to get to them.
You have my sincere concern,
AndrewB
Posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 0:54:22
In reply to Re: REQUIP - questions about dosing AndrewB, posted by AndrewB on February 4, 2001, at 22:56:29
Hi Andrew,
I have suffered with the following for the past twenty years with no relief: dystymia (with occassional bouts of severe depression), anhadonia and social phobia. Meds have included: elavil, tofranil, prosac, paxil, wellbutrin, desprmaine, effexor, St. John's Wort, 5 HTP, tryptophan, Kava Kava, Ephedra, Deprynel, Bromocriptine, Sinemet, Reboxetine, Dexedrine, methyphenidate, phentermine, thyroid, lucidril, piracetam, hydrgeine, GHB (when it was legal), alchohol, marijuana, buspar, valium, melatonin, phenylanaline, tyrosine, choline chloride, dilantin, tegretol, andrafinil, amisulpride, S-ame, procaine,DHEA, pregnenalone, vasopressin.
The AD's knocked me out. Wellbutrin did nothing but make me itch like crazy. Effexor was a drug from hell although I didn't experience alot of the negative effects of some of the others on this board. It made me very sleepy, very depressed and very fat! I stopped cold turkey after two and a half months and had severe stomach cramps. I had to go back and titrate down to ween myself off. Desipramine seemed to give the best results. I seemed to get some minor energy from it. My pdoc wanted me to have EEG's monthly while on it. I guess she just didn't understand the extent of my social phobia. I was unable to comply. I stopped the desipramine after a month and stopped seeing that doc. That was three years ago. I have not seen anyone since. The last AD I tried was Reboxetine(just before my amisulpride trial). My reaction to it is listed in my post at the top of this thread. It made me tired at first. I had to take it at night but would awake fully energized. I felt good and extremely hopeful the first two weeks on this drug. Eventually, it stopped making me sleepy and I had to start taking it morning and afternoons. I may have given up on this trial to soon. I stopped because it seemed to lose its energizing effects and I was beginning to have fleeting (30 min) bouts of occassional depression. It was disappointing also that it didn't touch my anhadonia or social phobia. Still, I think this one might be worth another try. Tegretol made my legs feel like lead, did nothing for my mood. GHB never helped my mood although in the beginning, I did get some energy when it wore off. I think it actually made me more social phobic. I found myself dosing quite often during the day and felt I was becomming mildly addicted. Lucidril (centroxophine) was one drug that I had minimal success with. I found it to me mildly stimmulating. More stimulating than andrafinil. No mood enhancing qualities, however.
The star of the show and the only one that has ever reversed all my symptoms was methylphenidate. I was on 20 mg for six months. Never increased the dose and I just seemed to get better and better over time. Some others have suggested on this board that methypenidate and ritilan are two different animals. Many claim to have gotten great results with Ritilan and none with the generic. I have found the very opposite to be true. In that same vain, dexedrine was also ineffective. I can take 30 mg's and fall asleep. It may have also been making me depressed. I took 3 grams of choline chloride daily for prolonged periods of time and found that it had very good memory enhancing properties. It did nothing for any of my other symptoms however. None of the vitamin or amino acid supplements (accept the choline) has ever yielded any results. Note, the lucidril also causes choline release.Having written all this and considering what you said about the bromo, I am wondering if it really did make me sleepy. I could be confusing it with the Sinemet. I am going to take a dose tonight and see what happens. If I recall correctly, I was taking the bromo to counter the increased prolactin caused by the GHB. Let me experiment and I will get back to you on this. BTW, deprynel (liquid) never did a thing. Probably wasn't enough and wasn't taking it long enough. I did try the tablets though for about a month and they never made a difference either.
I used alcohol for many years to deal with my social phobia. Realizing I was becomming an alcholic, I stopped. I have become more and more reclusive ever since. Things have deterriorated to a point where I can't even get out of bed anymore. I will not answer the door and will absolutely not go out to the mailbox. The only comfort in all of this is that I don't suffer from severe depression with suicical ideology for I certainly would have a good reason to kill myself. It seems there is no drug out there that is going to help me. It's karma! I guess I'm just paying for past sins.
Finally, I have used Light and sound/binaural beat programs in an attempt to entrain the electrical activity of my brain, e.g. alpha, beta and theta rythyms. These programs have been met with minimal, if any success.
Well Andrew, there you have it. I'll bet you're sorry you asked. I'm sorry to have rambled on so long but it's pretty hard to compact an entire history into one little paragraph.
Question: Have you heard of pikmilone? IAS sells it. It is a gaba/niacin product promoted to sedate at small doses and stimulate at larger ones.
Andrew, you have been very kind to take me under your wing. I have read many of your posts and have found you to be very bright, knowledgeable and insightful. I hope you can help me to get to the bottom of my problem.
Thankyou,
Kathy
>Kathy,
>
> Sorry the amisulpride doesn't seem to work for you.
>
> I can give you the REQUIP dosages but I think it would be better, if you don't mind, if we step back and look over your situation first.
>
> Your sleepiness induced by bromocriptine is troubling. I haven't heard of that before. Bromocriptine is a D-2 agonist while Mirapex and Requip are D2/D3 agonists. Bromo. as an AD, on the occassions it works,seems to eventually poop out. It has been speculated that Mirapex's better response rate and lack of poop out (I haven't heard or read of mirapex poop out so far) is due to its D3 receptor activity. Yes, I'm wondering if Requip won't just knock you out like Bromo.
>
> Anyway, if you don't mind, give a history of the medications (and even recreational drugs) you've taken, your responses to them and what your symtomology is. Hopefully if I can't, somebody else on this board can make some sense of it. If you don't wish to be so public you can email me at andrewb@seanet.com.
>
> Without such information, our suggestions will probably be just rainbows that get your hopes up but disappear when you actually try to get to them.
>
> You have my sincere concern,
>
> AndrewB
Posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 8:53:08
In reply to Re: REQUIP - questions about dosing AndrewB » AndrewB, posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 0:54:22
>Sorry, I mispoke, I meant to say EKG's and not EEG's regarding the desipramine issue.
I took the Bromo last night. I fell asleep but that may have just been because I was tired. I will take the Bromo again this afternoon and see what happens.
Andrew, has anyone else ever complianed of dizziness on the amisulpride? It is not the dizziness caused by hypotenstion but the dizziness similar to that caused by in inbalance in the fluid in the ears. I had this dizziness lying down especially when I turned my head to the right. On standing, I was being pulled to the left. The dizziness seemed the worst in the morning even though I hadn't taken the amisulpride for 24 hours. The andrafinil would seem to counter the dizziness. Several years ago, I experinced something very similar and very terrifying. The only thing I had been on was armour thyroid. I awoke one night and the entire room was spinning. I had no idea what was going on. I could not get out of bed. The dizziness was so intense that it was causing me to vomit several times. The room spun for a week and I was unable to get out of bed without bouncing off walls. I could only hold my head in one direction. If I turned it the other way the dizziness became intolerable and again cause vomiting. I never knew what it was or what caused it, I only know it was damn scary. In the end, I chalked the whole thing up to an inner ear infection. The reason I mention all this is because although my dizziness on the amisulpride was nowhere near as intense, it had the same exact feel to it. Could this point to a problem in that area of my brain dealing with those dopamine receptors? Could the armour thyroid have influenced those same areas?
One more observation about the amisulpride: It cleared up a problem that I have been having with blurred vision for the past year. Images became razor sharp and crystal clear. I stopped taking lucidril because I believed it was the cause of the blurred vision in the first place.
Hi Andrew,
>
> I have suffered with the following for the past twenty years with no relief: dystymia (with occassional bouts of severe depression), anhadonia and social phobia. Meds have included: elavil, tofranil, prosac, paxil, wellbutrin, desprmaine, effexor, St. John's Wort, 5 HTP, tryptophan, Kava Kava, Ephedra, Deprynel, Bromocriptine, Sinemet, Reboxetine, Dexedrine, methyphenidate, phentermine, thyroid, lucidril, piracetam, hydrgeine, GHB (when it was legal), alchohol, marijuana, buspar, valium, melatonin, phenylanaline, tyrosine, choline chloride, dilantin, tegretol, andrafinil, amisulpride, S-ame, procaine,DHEA, pregnenalone, vasopressin.
>
> The AD's knocked me out. Wellbutrin did nothing but make me itch like crazy. Effexor was a drug from hell although I didn't experience alot of the negative effects of some of the others on this board. It made me very sleepy, very depressed and very fat! I stopped cold turkey after two and a half months and had severe stomach cramps. I had to go back and titrate down to ween myself off. Desipramine seemed to give the best results. I seemed to get some minor energy from it. My pdoc wanted me to have EEG's monthly while on it. I guess she just didn't understand the extent of my social phobia. I was unable to comply. I stopped the desipramine after a month and stopped seeing that doc. That was three years ago. I have not seen anyone since. The last AD I tried was Reboxetine(just before my amisulpride trial). My reaction to it is listed in my post at the top of this thread. It made me tired at first. I had to take it at night but would awake fully energized. I felt good and extremely hopeful the first two weeks on this drug. Eventually, it stopped making me sleepy and I had to start taking it morning and afternoons. I may have given up on this trial to soon. I stopped because it seemed to lose its energizing effects and I was beginning to have fleeting (30 min) bouts of occassional depression. It was disappointing also that it didn't touch my anhadonia or social phobia. Still, I think this one might be worth another try. Tegretol made my legs feel like lead, did nothing for my mood. GHB never helped my mood although in the beginning, I did get some energy when it wore off. I think it actually made me more social phobic. I found myself dosing quite often during the day and felt I was becomming mildly addicted. Lucidril (centroxophine) was one drug that I had minimal success with. I found it to me mildly stimmulating. More stimulating than andrafinil. No mood enhancing qualities, however.
> The star of the show and the only one that has ever reversed all my symptoms was methylphenidate. I was on 20 mg for six months. Never increased the dose and I just seemed to get better and better over time. Some others have suggested on this board that methypenidate and ritilan are two different animals. Many claim to have gotten great results with Ritilan and none with the generic. I have found the very opposite to be true. In that same vain, dexedrine was also ineffective. I can take 30 mg's and fall asleep. It may have also been making me depressed. I took 3 grams of choline chloride daily for prolonged periods of time and found that it had very good memory enhancing properties. It did nothing for any of my other symptoms however. None of the vitamin or amino acid supplements (accept the choline) has ever yielded any results. Note, the lucidril also causes choline release.
>
> Having written all this and considering what you said about the bromo, I am wondering if it really did make me sleepy. I could be confusing it with the Sinemet. I am going to take a dose tonight and see what happens. If I recall correctly, I was taking the bromo to counter the increased prolactin caused by the GHB. Let me experiment and I will get back to you on this. BTW, deprynel (liquid) never did a thing. Probably wasn't enough and wasn't taking it long enough. I did try the tablets though for about a month and they never made a difference either.
>
> I used alcohol for many years to deal with my social phobia. Realizing I was becomming an alcholic, I stopped. I have become more and more reclusive ever since. Things have deterriorated to a point where I can't even get out of bed anymore. I will not answer the door and will absolutely not go out to the mailbox. The only comfort in all of this is that I don't suffer from severe depression with suicical ideology for I certainly would have a good reason to kill myself. It seems there is no drug out there that is going to help me. It's karma! I guess I'm just paying for past sins.
>
> Finally, I have used Light and sound/binaural beat programs in an attempt to entrain the electrical activity of my brain, e.g. alpha, beta and theta rythyms. These programs have been met with minimal, if any success.
>
> Well Andrew, there you have it. I'll bet you're sorry you asked. I'm sorry to have rambled on so long but it's pretty hard to compact an entire history into one little paragraph.
>
> Question: Have you heard of pikmilone? IAS sells it. It is a gaba/niacin product promoted to sedate at small doses and stimulate at larger ones.
>
> Andrew, you have been very kind to take me under your wing. I have read many of your posts and have found you to be very bright, knowledgeable and insightful. I hope you can help me to get to the bottom of my problem.
>
> Thankyou,
>
> Kathy
>
>
> >Kathy,
> >
> > Sorry the amisulpride doesn't seem to work for you.
> >
> > I can give you the REQUIP dosages but I think it would be better, if you don't mind, if we step back and look over your situation first.
> >
> > Your sleepiness induced by bromocriptine is troubling. I haven't heard of that before. Bromocriptine is a D-2 agonist while Mirapex and Requip are D2/D3 agonists. Bromo. as an AD, on the occassions it works,seems to eventually poop out. It has been speculated that Mirapex's better response rate and lack of poop out (I haven't heard or read of mirapex poop out so far) is due to its D3 receptor activity. Yes, I'm wondering if Requip won't just knock you out like Bromo.
> >
> > Anyway, if you don't mind, give a history of the medications (and even recreational drugs) you've taken, your responses to them and what your symtomology is. Hopefully if I can't, somebody else on this board can make some sense of it. If you don't wish to be so public you can email me at andrewb@seanet.com.
> >
> > Without such information, our suggestions will probably be just rainbows that get your hopes up but disappear when you actually try to get to them.
> >
> > You have my sincere concern,
> >
> > AndrewB
Posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 14:12:39
In reply to Re: REQUIP - additional info, posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 8:53:08
Andrew,
2.5 mgs. Bromocriptine turns out not to be sedative afterall. There seems to be no negative side effects. I don't know if it will make me depressed or not. Do you think I should continue with a trial of Bromo and at what dosages? How long does it usually take to acheive AD effects? I have 30 tabs.
> >Sorry, I mispoke, I meant to say EKG's and not EEG's regarding the desipramine issue.
>
> I took the Bromo last night. I fell asleep but that may have just been because I was tired. I will take the Bromo again this afternoon and see what happens.
>
> Andrew, has anyone else ever complianed of dizziness on the amisulpride? It is not the dizziness caused by hypotenstion but the dizziness similar to that caused by in inbalance in the fluid in the ears. I had this dizziness lying down especially when I turned my head to the right. On standing, I was being pulled to the left. The dizziness seemed the worst in the morning even though I hadn't taken the amisulpride for 24 hours. The andrafinil would seem to counter the dizziness. Several years ago, I experinced something very similar and very terrifying. The only thing I had been on was armour thyroid. I awoke one night and the entire room was spinning. I had no idea what was going on. I could not get out of bed. The dizziness was so intense that it was causing me to vomit several times. The room spun for a week and I was unable to get out of bed without bouncing off walls. I could only hold my head in one direction. If I turned it the other way the dizziness became intolerable and again cause vomiting. I never knew what it was or what caused it, I only know it was damn scary. In the end, I chalked the whole thing up to an inner ear infection. The reason I mention all this is because although my dizziness on the amisulpride was nowhere near as intense, it had the same exact feel to it. Could this point to a problem in that area of my brain dealing with those dopamine receptors? Could the armour thyroid have influenced those same areas?
>
> One more observation about the amisulpride: It cleared up a problem that I have been having with blurred vision for the past year. Images became razor sharp and crystal clear. I stopped taking lucidril because I believed it was the cause of the blurred vision in the first place.
>
> Hi Andrew,
> >
> > I have suffered with the following for the past twenty years with no relief: dystymia (with occassional bouts of severe depression), anhadonia and social phobia. Meds have included: elavil, tofranil, prosac, paxil, wellbutrin, desprmaine, effexor, St. John's Wort, 5 HTP, tryptophan, Kava Kava, Ephedra, Deprynel, Bromocriptine, Sinemet, Reboxetine, Dexedrine, methyphenidate, phentermine, thyroid, lucidril, piracetam, hydrgeine, GHB (when it was legal), alchohol, marijuana, buspar, valium, melatonin, phenylanaline, tyrosine, choline chloride, dilantin, tegretol, andrafinil, amisulpride, S-ame, procaine,DHEA, pregnenalone, vasopressin.
> >
> > The AD's knocked me out. Wellbutrin did nothing but make me itch like crazy. Effexor was a drug from hell although I didn't experience alot of the negative effects of some of the others on this board. It made me very sleepy, very depressed and very fat! I stopped cold turkey after two and a half months and had severe stomach cramps. I had to go back and titrate down to ween myself off. Desipramine seemed to give the best results. I seemed to get some minor energy from it. My pdoc wanted me to have EEG's monthly while on it. I guess she just didn't understand the extent of my social phobia. I was unable to comply. I stopped the desipramine after a month and stopped seeing that doc. That was three years ago. I have not seen anyone since. The last AD I tried was Reboxetine(just before my amisulpride trial). My reaction to it is listed in my post at the top of this thread. It made me tired at first. I had to take it at night but would awake fully energized. I felt good and extremely hopeful the first two weeks on this drug. Eventually, it stopped making me sleepy and I had to start taking it morning and afternoons. I may have given up on this trial to soon. I stopped because it seemed to lose its energizing effects and I was beginning to have fleeting (30 min) bouts of occassional depression. It was disappointing also that it didn't touch my anhadonia or social phobia. Still, I think this one might be worth another try. Tegretol made my legs feel like lead, did nothing for my mood. GHB never helped my mood although in the beginning, I did get some energy when it wore off. I think it actually made me more social phobic. I found myself dosing quite often during the day and felt I was becomming mildly addicted. Lucidril (centroxophine) was one drug that I had minimal success with. I found it to me mildly stimmulating. More stimulating than andrafinil. No mood enhancing qualities, however.
> > The star of the show and the only one that has ever reversed all my symptoms was methylphenidate. I was on 20 mg for six months. Never increased the dose and I just seemed to get better and better over time. Some others have suggested on this board that methypenidate and ritilan are two different animals. Many claim to have gotten great results with Ritilan and none with the generic. I have found the very opposite to be true. In that same vain, dexedrine was also ineffective. I can take 30 mg's and fall asleep. It may have also been making me depressed. I took 3 grams of choline chloride daily for prolonged periods of time and found that it had very good memory enhancing properties. It did nothing for any of my other symptoms however. None of the vitamin or amino acid supplements (accept the choline) has ever yielded any results. Note, the lucidril also causes choline release.
> >
> > Having written all this and considering what you said about the bromo, I am wondering if it really did make me sleepy. I could be confusing it with the Sinemet. I am going to take a dose tonight and see what happens. If I recall correctly, I was taking the bromo to counter the increased prolactin caused by the GHB. Let me experiment and I will get back to you on this. BTW, deprynel (liquid) never did a thing. Probably wasn't enough and wasn't taking it long enough. I did try the tablets though for about a month and they never made a difference either.
> >
> > I used alcohol for many years to deal with my social phobia. Realizing I was becomming an alcholic, I stopped. I have become more and more reclusive ever since. Things have deterriorated to a point where I can't even get out of bed anymore. I will not answer the door and will absolutely not go out to the mailbox. The only comfort in all of this is that I don't suffer from severe depression with suicical ideology for I certainly would have a good reason to kill myself. It seems there is no drug out there that is going to help me. It's karma! I guess I'm just paying for past sins.
> >
> > Finally, I have used Light and sound/binaural beat programs in an attempt to entrain the electrical activity of my brain, e.g. alpha, beta and theta rythyms. These programs have been met with minimal, if any success.
> >
> > Well Andrew, there you have it. I'll bet you're sorry you asked. I'm sorry to have rambled on so long but it's pretty hard to compact an entire history into one little paragraph.
> >
> > Question: Have you heard of pikmilone? IAS sells it. It is a gaba/niacin product promoted to sedate at small doses and stimulate at larger ones.
> >
> > Andrew, you have been very kind to take me under your wing. I have read many of your posts and have found you to be very bright, knowledgeable and insightful. I hope you can help me to get to the bottom of my problem.
> >
> > Thankyou,
> >
> > Kathy
> >
> >
> > >Kathy,
> > >
> > > Sorry the amisulpride doesn't seem to work for you.
> > >
> > > I can give you the REQUIP dosages but I think it would be better, if you don't mind, if we step back and look over your situation first.
> > >
> > > Your sleepiness induced by bromocriptine is troubling. I haven't heard of that before. Bromocriptine is a D-2 agonist while Mirapex and Requip are D2/D3 agonists. Bromo. as an AD, on the occassions it works,seems to eventually poop out. It has been speculated that Mirapex's better response rate and lack of poop out (I haven't heard or read of mirapex poop out so far) is due to its D3 receptor activity. Yes, I'm wondering if Requip won't just knock you out like Bromo.
> > >
> > > Anyway, if you don't mind, give a history of the medications (and even recreational drugs) you've taken, your responses to them and what your symtomology is. Hopefully if I can't, somebody else on this board can make some sense of it. If you don't wish to be so public you can email me at andrewb@seanet.com.
> > >
> > > Without such information, our suggestions will probably be just rainbows that get your hopes up but disappear when you actually try to get to them.
> > >
> > > You have my sincere concern,
> > >
> > > AndrewB
Posted by Lycaste on February 5, 2001, at 14:41:58
In reply to Re: REQUIP - additional info, posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 8:53:08
Hi Kathy,
You might consider that an unrelated condition is causing your dizziness. The symptoms sound a lot like Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV).
BPPV is believed to be cause when little ear stones that normally reside the utricle in the inner ear work their way loose and end up in the ear canals. There they create the feeling of vertigo.
The reason I say that it sounds like this is what you may have is that it is very typical to experience the vertigo while lying down and for it to be worse when you move your head into certain positions. (That's where the "positional" in the condition's name comes in.) It can hit suddenly: you turn over in bed and the next thing you know the room is spinning like mad. Disconcerting, to say the least.
Since the stones break down over time (or naturally move out of the canal), this condition is an intermittent kind of thing. And the good news is that a bout can often be cleared up with certain head exercises designed to move the stones out of the canal. Here is a link to a good web site:
http://www.cscd.nwu.edu/public/balance/bppv.html
It distinguishes between exercises that are done at the doctor's office and ones that are done at home. The ones that are supposed to be done at home take longer; being the impatient soul that I am when I last suffered a bout of BPPV, I just did the doctor's office exercises at home. It worked for me. The risk is if you are experiencing extreme vertigo, you might get very sick or fall or... If you have a friend who could play the doctor's role, that might be a good idea. I also get the impression that a doctor watches for certain involuntary eye movements that signal vertigo, so he/she knows how long to hold certain positions and when the exercises have done the trick or when they need to be repeated.
Now, although I called this an "unrelated condition," personally I actually wonder about this. My last bout occurred when my thyroid medicine was too high. It seems reasonable to suppose that certain medications might speed up the turnover in the ear stones (they are constantly being broken down and recreated), which in turn might increase the likelihood of them getting loose. Or medication might give you heighted sensitivity to having them where they're not supposed to be. In other words, in this case amisulpride might not have been the original cause of the problem, but it might (and I'm saying just *might*) have made you more sensitive to it. Who knows? The body is a weird and miraculous thing. Who'd have thunk that the ear has stones, anyway?
Best wishes,
Lycaste
> >Sorry, I mispoke, I meant to say EKG's and not EEG's regarding the desipramine issue.
>
> I took the Bromo last night. I fell asleep but that may have just been because I was tired. I will take the Bromo again this afternoon and see what happens.
>
> Andrew, has anyone else ever complianed of dizziness on the amisulpride? It is not the dizziness caused by hypotenstion but the dizziness similar to that caused by in inbalance in the fluid in the ears. I had this dizziness lying down especially when I turned my head to the right. On standing, I was being pulled to the left. The dizziness seemed the worst in the morning even though I hadn't taken the amisulpride for 24 hours. The andrafinil would seem to counter the dizziness. Several years ago, I experinced something very similar and very terrifying. The only thing I had been on was armour thyroid. I awoke one night and the entire room was spinning. I had no idea what was going on. I could not get out of bed. The dizziness was so intense that it was causing me to vomit several times. The room spun for a week and I was unable to get out of bed without bouncing off walls. I could only hold my head in one direction. If I turned it the other way the dizziness became intolerable and again cause vomiting. I never knew what it was or what caused it, I only know it was damn scary. In the end, I chalked the whole thing up to an inner ear infection. The reason I mention all this is because although my dizziness on the amisulpride was nowhere near as intense, it had the same exact feel to it. Could this point to a problem in that area of my brain dealing with those dopamine receptors? Could the armour thyroid have influenced those same areas?
>
> One more observation about the amisulpride: It cleared up a problem that I have been having with blurred vision for the past year. Images became razor sharp and crystal clear. I stopped taking lucidril because I believed it was the cause of the blurred vision in the first place.
>
> Hi Andrew,
> >
> > I have suffered with the following for the past twenty years with no relief: dystymia (with occassional bouts of severe depression), anhadonia and social phobia. Meds have included: elavil, tofranil, prosac, paxil, wellbutrin, desprmaine, effexor, St. John's Wort, 5 HTP, tryptophan, Kava Kava, Ephedra, Deprynel, Bromocriptine, Sinemet, Reboxetine, Dexedrine, methyphenidate, phentermine, thyroid, lucidril, piracetam, hydrgeine, GHB (when it was legal), alchohol, marijuana, buspar, valium, melatonin, phenylanaline, tyrosine, choline chloride, dilantin, tegretol, andrafinil, amisulpride, S-ame, procaine,DHEA, pregnenalone, vasopressin.
> >
> > The AD's knocked me out. Wellbutrin did nothing but make me itch like crazy. Effexor was a drug from hell although I didn't experience alot of the negative effects of some of the others on this board. It made me very sleepy, very depressed and very fat! I stopped cold turkey after two and a half months and had severe stomach cramps. I had to go back and titrate down to ween myself off. Desipramine seemed to give the best results. I seemed to get some minor energy from it. My pdoc wanted me to have EEG's monthly while on it. I guess she just didn't understand the extent of my social phobia. I was unable to comply. I stopped the desipramine after a month and stopped seeing that doc. That was three years ago. I have not seen anyone since. The last AD I tried was Reboxetine(just before my amisulpride trial). My reaction to it is listed in my post at the top of this thread. It made me tired at first. I had to take it at night but would awake fully energized. I felt good and extremely hopeful the first two weeks on this drug. Eventually, it stopped making me sleepy and I had to start taking it morning and afternoons. I may have given up on this trial to soon. I stopped because it seemed to lose its energizing effects and I was beginning to have fleeting (30 min) bouts of occassional depression. It was disappointing also that it didn't touch my anhadonia or social phobia. Still, I think this one might be worth another try. Tegretol made my legs feel like lead, did nothing for my mood. GHB never helped my mood although in the beginning, I did get some energy when it wore off. I think it actually made me more social phobic. I found myself dosing quite often during the day and felt I was becomming mildly addicted. Lucidril (centroxophine) was one drug that I had minimal success with. I found it to me mildly stimmulating. More stimulating than andrafinil. No mood enhancing qualities, however.
> > The star of the show and the only one that has ever reversed all my symptoms was methylphenidate. I was on 20 mg for six months. Never increased the dose and I just seemed to get better and better over time. Some others have suggested on this board that methypenidate and ritilan are two different animals. Many claim to have gotten great results with Ritilan and none with the generic. I have found the very opposite to be true. In that same vain, dexedrine was also ineffective. I can take 30 mg's and fall asleep. It may have also been making me depressed. I took 3 grams of choline chloride daily for prolonged periods of time and found that it had very good memory enhancing properties. It did nothing for any of my other symptoms however. None of the vitamin or amino acid supplements (accept the choline) has ever yielded any results. Note, the lucidril also causes choline release.
> >
> > Having written all this and considering what you said about the bromo, I am wondering if it really did make me sleepy. I could be confusing it with the Sinemet. I am going to take a dose tonight and see what happens. If I recall correctly, I was taking the bromo to counter the increased prolactin caused by the GHB. Let me experiment and I will get back to you on this. BTW, deprynel (liquid) never did a thing. Probably wasn't enough and wasn't taking it long enough. I did try the tablets though for about a month and they never made a difference either.
> >
> > I used alcohol for many years to deal with my social phobia. Realizing I was becomming an alcholic, I stopped. I have become more and more reclusive ever since. Things have deterriorated to a point where I can't even get out of bed anymore. I will not answer the door and will absolutely not go out to the mailbox. The only comfort in all of this is that I don't suffer from severe depression with suicical ideology for I certainly would have a good reason to kill myself. It seems there is no drug out there that is going to help me. It's karma! I guess I'm just paying for past sins.
> >
> > Finally, I have used Light and sound/binaural beat programs in an attempt to entrain the electrical activity of my brain, e.g. alpha, beta and theta rythyms. These programs have been met with minimal, if any success.
> >
> > Well Andrew, there you have it. I'll bet you're sorry you asked. I'm sorry to have rambled on so long but it's pretty hard to compact an entire history into one little paragraph.
> >
> > Question: Have you heard of pikmilone? IAS sells it. It is a gaba/niacin product promoted to sedate at small doses and stimulate at larger ones.
> >
> > Andrew, you have been very kind to take me under your wing. I have read many of your posts and have found you to be very bright, knowledgeable and insightful. I hope you can help me to get to the bottom of my problem.
> >
> > Thankyou,
> >
> > Kathy
> >
> >
> > >Kathy,
> > >
> > > Sorry the amisulpride doesn't seem to work for you.
> > >
> > > I can give you the REQUIP dosages but I think it would be better, if you don't mind, if we step back and look over your situation first.
> > >
> > > Your sleepiness induced by bromocriptine is troubling. I haven't heard of that before. Bromocriptine is a D-2 agonist while Mirapex and Requip are D2/D3 agonists. Bromo. as an AD, on the occassions it works,seems to eventually poop out. It has been speculated that Mirapex's better response rate and lack of poop out (I haven't heard or read of mirapex poop out so far) is due to its D3 receptor activity. Yes, I'm wondering if Requip won't just knock you out like Bromo.
> > >
> > > Anyway, if you don't mind, give a history of the medications (and even recreational drugs) you've taken, your responses to them and what your symtomology is. Hopefully if I can't, somebody else on this board can make some sense of it. If you don't wish to be so public you can email me at andrewb@seanet.com.
> > >
> > > Without such information, our suggestions will probably be just rainbows that get your hopes up but disappear when you actually try to get to them.
> > >
> > > You have my sincere concern,
> > >
> > > AndrewB
Posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 14:58:37
In reply to Re: dizziness » Katz, posted by Lycaste on February 5, 2001, at 14:41:58
Hi Lycaste,
Thankyou! That was very interesting and informative. I did a little research myself today and discovered there is also an inner ear disease called Meniere's disease. It described the exact same symptoms that I experienced during my week long bout several years ago. Meniere's is very serious and can actually lead to deafness. Coincidentally, I suffered this bout when I also had increased my thyroid to too high a level.
Whatever the cause, I stopped the amisulpride and the dizziness has completely disappeared.
Thankyou again for the information. I am downloading it for future reference.
Best wishes,
Kathy
> Hi Kathy,
>
> You might consider that an unrelated condition is causing your dizziness. The symptoms sound a lot like Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV).
>
> BPPV is believed to be cause when little ear stones that normally reside the utricle in the inner ear work their way loose and end up in the ear canals. There they create the feeling of vertigo.
>
> The reason I say that it sounds like this is what you may have is that it is very typical to experience the vertigo while lying down and for it to be worse when you move your head into certain positions. (That's where the "positional" in the condition's name comes in.) It can hit suddenly: you turn over in bed and the next thing you know the room is spinning like mad. Disconcerting, to say the least.
>
> Since the stones break down over time (or naturally move out of the canal), this condition is an intermittent kind of thing. And the good news is that a bout can often be cleared up with certain head exercises designed to move the stones out of the canal. Here is a link to a good web site:
>
> http://www.cscd.nwu.edu/public/balance/bppv.html
>
> It distinguishes between exercises that are done at the doctor's office and ones that are done at home. The ones that are supposed to be done at home take longer; being the impatient soul that I am when I last suffered a bout of BPPV, I just did the doctor's office exercises at home. It worked for me. The risk is if you are experiencing extreme vertigo, you might get very sick or fall or... If you have a friend who could play the doctor's role, that might be a good idea. I also get the impression that a doctor watches for certain involuntary eye movements that signal vertigo, so he/she knows how long to hold certain positions and when the exercises have done the trick or when they need to be repeated.
>
> Now, although I called this an "unrelated condition," personally I actually wonder about this. My last bout occurred when my thyroid medicine was too high. It seems reasonable to suppose that certain medications might speed up the turnover in the ear stones (they are constantly being broken down and recreated), which in turn might increase the likelihood of them getting loose. Or medication might give you heighted sensitivity to having them where they're not supposed to be. In other words, in this case amisulpride might not have been the original cause of the problem, but it might (and I'm saying just *might*) have made you more sensitive to it. Who knows? The body is a weird and miraculous thing. Who'd have thunk that the ear has stones, anyway?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Lycaste
>
>
>
> > >Sorry, I mispoke, I meant to say EKG's and not EEG's regarding the desipramine issue.
> >
> > I took the Bromo last night. I fell asleep but that may have just been because I was tired. I will take the Bromo again this afternoon and see what happens.
> >
> > Andrew, has anyone else ever complianed of dizziness on the amisulpride? It is not the dizziness caused by hypotenstion but the dizziness similar to that caused by in inbalance in the fluid in the ears. I had this dizziness lying down especially when I turned my head to the right. On standing, I was being pulled to the left. The dizziness seemed the worst in the morning even though I hadn't taken the amisulpride for 24 hours. The andrafinil would seem to counter the dizziness. Several years ago, I experinced something very similar and very terrifying. The only thing I had been on was armour thyroid. I awoke one night and the entire room was spinning. I had no idea what was going on. I could not get out of bed. The dizziness was so intense that it was causing me to vomit several times. The room spun for a week and I was unable to get out of bed without bouncing off walls. I could only hold my head in one direction. If I turned it the other way the dizziness became intolerable and again cause vomiting. I never knew what it was or what caused it, I only know it was damn scary. In the end, I chalked the whole thing up to an inner ear infection. The reason I mention all this is because although my dizziness on the amisulpride was nowhere near as intense, it had the same exact feel to it. Could this point to a problem in that area of my brain dealing with those dopamine receptors? Could the armour thyroid have influenced those same areas?
> >
> > One more observation about the amisulpride: It cleared up a problem that I have been having with blurred vision for the past year. Images became razor sharp and crystal clear. I stopped taking lucidril because I believed it was the cause of the blurred vision in the first place.
> >
> > Hi Andrew,
> > >
> > > I have suffered with the following for the past twenty years with no relief: dystymia (with occassional bouts of severe depression), anhadonia and social phobia. Meds have included: elavil, tofranil, prosac, paxil, wellbutrin, desprmaine, effexor, St. John's Wort, 5 HTP, tryptophan, Kava Kava, Ephedra, Deprynel, Bromocriptine, Sinemet, Reboxetine, Dexedrine, methyphenidate, phentermine, thyroid, lucidril, piracetam, hydrgeine, GHB (when it was legal), alchohol, marijuana, buspar, valium, melatonin, phenylanaline, tyrosine, choline chloride, dilantin, tegretol, andrafinil, amisulpride, S-ame, procaine,DHEA, pregnenalone, vasopressin.
> > >
> > > The AD's knocked me out. Wellbutrin did nothing but make me itch like crazy. Effexor was a drug from hell although I didn't experience alot of the negative effects of some of the others on this board. It made me very sleepy, very depressed and very fat! I stopped cold turkey after two and a half months and had severe stomach cramps. I had to go back and titrate down to ween myself off. Desipramine seemed to give the best results. I seemed to get some minor energy from it. My pdoc wanted me to have EEG's monthly while on it. I guess she just didn't understand the extent of my social phobia. I was unable to comply. I stopped the desipramine after a month and stopped seeing that doc. That was three years ago. I have not seen anyone since. The last AD I tried was Reboxetine(just before my amisulpride trial). My reaction to it is listed in my post at the top of this thread. It made me tired at first. I had to take it at night but would awake fully energized. I felt good and extremely hopeful the first two weeks on this drug. Eventually, it stopped making me sleepy and I had to start taking it morning and afternoons. I may have given up on this trial to soon. I stopped because it seemed to lose its energizing effects and I was beginning to have fleeting (30 min) bouts of occassional depression. It was disappointing also that it didn't touch my anhadonia or social phobia. Still, I think this one might be worth another try. Tegretol made my legs feel like lead, did nothing for my mood. GHB never helped my mood although in the beginning, I did get some energy when it wore off. I think it actually made me more social phobic. I found myself dosing quite often during the day and felt I was becomming mildly addicted. Lucidril (centroxophine) was one drug that I had minimal success with. I found it to me mildly stimmulating. More stimulating than andrafinil. No mood enhancing qualities, however.
> > > The star of the show and the only one that has ever reversed all my symptoms was methylphenidate. I was on 20 mg for six months. Never increased the dose and I just seemed to get better and better over time. Some others have suggested on this board that methypenidate and ritilan are two different animals. Many claim to have gotten great results with Ritilan and none with the generic. I have found the very opposite to be true. In that same vain, dexedrine was also ineffective. I can take 30 mg's and fall asleep. It may have also been making me depressed. I took 3 grams of choline chloride daily for prolonged periods of time and found that it had very good memory enhancing properties. It did nothing for any of my other symptoms however. None of the vitamin or amino acid supplements (accept the choline) has ever yielded any results. Note, the lucidril also causes choline release.
> > >
> > > Having written all this and considering what you said about the bromo, I am wondering if it really did make me sleepy. I could be confusing it with the Sinemet. I am going to take a dose tonight and see what happens. If I recall correctly, I was taking the bromo to counter the increased prolactin caused by the GHB. Let me experiment and I will get back to you on this. BTW, deprynel (liquid) never did a thing. Probably wasn't enough and wasn't taking it long enough. I did try the tablets though for about a month and they never made a difference either.
> > >
> > > I used alcohol for many years to deal with my social phobia. Realizing I was becomming an alcholic, I stopped. I have become more and more reclusive ever since. Things have deterriorated to a point where I can't even get out of bed anymore. I will not answer the door and will absolutely not go out to the mailbox. The only comfort in all of this is that I don't suffer from severe depression with suicical ideology for I certainly would have a good reason to kill myself. It seems there is no drug out there that is going to help me. It's karma! I guess I'm just paying for past sins.
> > >
> > > Finally, I have used Light and sound/binaural beat programs in an attempt to entrain the electrical activity of my brain, e.g. alpha, beta and theta rythyms. These programs have been met with minimal, if any success.
> > >
> > > Well Andrew, there you have it. I'll bet you're sorry you asked. I'm sorry to have rambled on so long but it's pretty hard to compact an entire history into one little paragraph.
> > >
> > > Question: Have you heard of pikmilone? IAS sells it. It is a gaba/niacin product promoted to sedate at small doses and stimulate at larger ones.
> > >
> > > Andrew, you have been very kind to take me under your wing. I have read many of your posts and have found you to be very bright, knowledgeable and insightful. I hope you can help me to get to the bottom of my problem.
> > >
> > > Thankyou,
> > >
> > > Kathy
> > >
> > >
> > > >Kathy,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry the amisulpride doesn't seem to work for you.
> > > >
> > > > I can give you the REQUIP dosages but I think it would be better, if you don't mind, if we step back and look over your situation first.
> > > >
> > > > Your sleepiness induced by bromocriptine is troubling. I haven't heard of that before. Bromocriptine is a D-2 agonist while Mirapex and Requip are D2/D3 agonists. Bromo. as an AD, on the occassions it works,seems to eventually poop out. It has been speculated that Mirapex's better response rate and lack of poop out (I haven't heard or read of mirapex poop out so far) is due to its D3 receptor activity. Yes, I'm wondering if Requip won't just knock you out like Bromo.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, if you don't mind, give a history of the medications (and even recreational drugs) you've taken, your responses to them and what your symtomology is. Hopefully if I can't, somebody else on this board can make some sense of it. If you don't wish to be so public you can email me at andrewb@seanet.com.
> > > >
> > > > Without such information, our suggestions will probably be just rainbows that get your hopes up but disappear when you actually try to get to them.
> > > >
> > > > You have my sincere concern,
> > > >
> > > > AndrewB
Posted by natg on February 5, 2001, at 15:02:32
In reply to Re: REQUIP - questions about dosing AndrewB » AndrewB, posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 0:54:22
Hi Kathy:
I can certainly relate to your situation.I wish I could help but unfortunately I am no expert in pharmacology like Andrew.
Please hang in there! I've suffered from depression and social phobia for 10 years. I, too, drank excessive amounts to medicate only to become an alcoholic.
Believe me, i know there is medication out there to help you.
I finally begged my Doctor to let me try Mirapex along with a low dose of risperdal and it has been my success story. Risperdal alone used to do the trick but it sort of pooped out on me. Then I added Mirapex and I can honestly say my life is a lot better. I, too, used to spend a lot of time in bed. I used to sleep a lot, that was my way of escaping esp. after i quit drinking.Maybe, you can try adding the Bromo. or Requip to Reboxetine.
For me personally, I have to take Risperdal and Mirapex together to get the desired effect. I went 10 days without risperdal and got severely depressed. Same with Mirapex.
I wish I could help more.
All the best and keep posting.
Nat
Posted by PhoenixGirl on February 5, 2001, at 15:18:40
In reply to Re: REQUIP - questions about dosing AndrewB » Katz, posted by natg on February 5, 2001, at 15:02:32
Hi Kathy,
I understand the hell that you're going through. I've tried many meds with only partial success with any of them. But don't give up! I'm 23, and have had serious depression and social phobia since age 12. When I was 17 I tried to kill myself, but I'm glad I didn't give up because I've made progress since then.
In your post, you said that methylphenidate helped you, and that after 6 months you hadn't developed tolerance. Why did you go off of it? Maybe you should go back on it because you are obviously suffering considerably. Hang in there, you're not the only one.PG
Hi Kathy:
> I can certainly relate to your situation.I wish I could help but unfortunately I am no expert in pharmacology like Andrew.
> Please hang in there! I've suffered from depression and social phobia for 10 years. I, too, drank excessive amounts to medicate only to become an alcoholic.
> Believe me, i know there is medication out there to help you.
> I finally begged my Doctor to let me try Mirapex along with a low dose of risperdal and it has been my success story. Risperdal alone used to do the trick but it sort of pooped out on me. Then I added Mirapex and I can honestly say my life is a lot better. I, too, used to spend a lot of time in bed. I used to sleep a lot, that was my way of escaping esp. after i quit drinking.
>
> Maybe, you can try adding the Bromo. or Requip to Reboxetine.
>
> For me personally, I have to take Risperdal and Mirapex together to get the desired effect. I went 10 days without risperdal and got severely depressed. Same with Mirapex.
>
> I wish I could help more.
>
> All the best and keep posting.
>
> Nat
Posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 16:00:28
In reply to Re: REQUIP - questions about dosing AndrewB » Katz, posted by natg on February 5, 2001, at 15:02:32
>HI Nat,
I was encouraged to hear of your succes with Mirapex. Did you ever try amisulpride? If so, how did it work for you? Yes, it was my plan to add Rebox back once I found another med that worked for the anhadonia and social phobia. I liked the energy boost that I got from it. I don't think you can combine rebox and bromo. If I recall correctly (and that is not always the case) you are not supposed to mix ergot derrivatives with the Rebox. Bromo falls into this category but the Requip does not.
Thankyou for your encouraging words. It helps to know that someone who has once stood in your shoes has actually found relief from their situation.
Wishing you continued success,
Kathy
Hi Kathy:
> I can certainly relate to your situation.I wish I could help but unfortunately I am no expert in pharmacology like Andrew.
> Please hang in there! I've suffered from depression and social phobia for 10 years. I, too, drank excessive amounts to medicate only to become an alcoholic.
> Believe me, i know there is medication out there to help you.
> I finally begged my Doctor to let me try Mirapex along with a low dose of risperdal and it has been my success story. Risperdal alone used to do the trick but it sort of pooped out on me. Then I added Mirapex and I can honestly say my life is a lot better. I, too, used to spend a lot of time in bed. I used to sleep a lot, that was my way of escaping esp. after i quit drinking.
>
> Maybe, you can try adding the Bromo. or Requip to Reboxetine.
>
> For me personally, I have to take Risperdal and Mirapex together to get the desired effect. I went 10 days without risperdal and got severely depressed. Same with Mirapex.
>
> I wish I could help more.
>
> All the best and keep posting.
>
> Nat
Posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 16:25:46
In reply to Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy?, posted by PhoenixGirl on February 5, 2001, at 15:18:40
Hi PG,
I'm sorry to hear that you have suffered so long and so much. I'm happy that you are still here! You are obviously a kind and loving person willing to extend your hand to help fellow suffers. Your imput is valuable and very much appreciated. You are so young, yet so wise. Your whole life is infront of you. I hope you will find the happiness you deserve. If you don't mind my asking, what meds are you currently having success with?
Back to your question. If it were up to me, I would still be on Ritilin. I cannot find a doc in my area to prescribe it for me. Personally, I think it is a crime. Several years ago I was seeing a doc three states away who prescribed the Ritilin for me. The expense of traveling so far (gas, food, motel, etc.) became prohibitive. The doctor required that I make the journey once a month. I just couldn't do it.
Wishing you continued success,
Kathy
Hi Kathy,
>
> I understand the hell that you're going through. I've tried many meds with only partial success with any of them. But don't give up! I'm 23, and have had serious depression and social phobia since age 12. When I was 17 I tried to kill myself, but I'm glad I didn't give up because I've made progress since then.
> In your post, you said that methylphenidate helped you, and that after 6 months you hadn't developed tolerance. Why did you go off of it? Maybe you should go back on it because you are obviously suffering considerably. Hang in there, you're not the only one.
>
> PG
>
> Hi Kathy:
> > I can certainly relate to your situation.I wish I could help but unfortunately I am no expert in pharmacology like Andrew.
> > Please hang in there! I've suffered from depression and social phobia for 10 years. I, too, drank excessive amounts to medicate only to become an alcoholic.
> > Believe me, i know there is medication out there to help you.
> > I finally begged my Doctor to let me try Mirapex along with a low dose of risperdal and it has been my success story. Risperdal alone used to do the trick but it sort of pooped out on me. Then I added Mirapex and I can honestly say my life is a lot better. I, too, used to spend a lot of time in bed. I used to sleep a lot, that was my way of escaping esp. after i quit drinking.
> >
> > Maybe, you can try adding the Bromo. or Requip to Reboxetine.
> >
> > For me personally, I have to take Risperdal and Mirapex together to get the desired effect. I went 10 days without risperdal and got severely depressed. Same with Mirapex.
> >
> > I wish I could help more.
> >
> > All the best and keep posting.
> >
> > Nat
Posted by AndrewB on February 6, 2001, at 2:27:56
In reply to Re: Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy? » PhoenixGirl, posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 16:25:46
Kathy,
I'm sorry that you've been sufferring so.
First of all, I'd like to say that you can get your life back. I'm going to give you a roadmap on how to get back on methylphenidate or another but before I do would like to say a couple of things.
One, I'm in no way an expert and have no medical training. I have however taught myself about mood and related disorders due to dysfuntion of the dopaminergic and glutaminergic system, an area largely ignored by mainstream US psychiatry unfortunately. I can offer suggestions for people who may have disorders of this nature but my best suggestion I believe is that if you have a mood disorder unresponsive to traditional ADs seek the best help out there. That usually means going to a person self-described as a psychopharmocologist.
Kathy do not do a trial with bromocriptine. It is not worth your time.
About your dizziness, the dopaminergic system has pathways that extend to the inner ear. Dopamine keeps the glutaminergic excitatation in check in the inner ear. Your dizziness due to amisulpride may be an indication of glutaminergic dysfunction (just as JohnLs tinnitus in response to so many meds may be). Dopaminergic and glutaminergic dysfunction can be very much intertwined. I can't say for sure without doing some research, but it seems that even at 25mg.s, the amisulpride is antagonizing the postsynaptic receptors rather than the desired target, the presynaptic dopamine autoreceptors.
Now a question, you tried a couple other stimulants like dexedrine, did you have any initial response to these meds that quickly faded away or were they inert upon your system from day one?
****Okay you can get methyphenidate for mood disorders or other amphetamines without too much trouble. The key is to locate the right doctor. This will require some phone calling on your part. Social phobia can make this daunting but you need to be brave because the alternative is to let let your life wind itself out amoungst the shadows.
Step 1: Write a note on this board telling people where you live and if anybody knows of a good doctor in your area who has prescribed them amphetamines.
Step 2: Call the psychiatric departments of large nearby hospitals and ask for names and contact information for psychopharmocologists. (GPs often refuse to prescribe amphetamines for mood disorders, the more knowledgeable professionals however tend to be much more willing.)
Step 3: Call the psychopharmocologists, you will usually get a receptionist or an answering machine, tell them you are prospective patient and (if the pdoc is taking patients) ask to arrange for a 5 minute phone conversation with the pdoc at a prearranged time.
Step 4: Write down what you want to say before hand if you think you will be nervous during this conversation. In the conversation, briefly describe your condition, mention your positive response to amphetamine, and ask if he would consider prescribing an amphetamine to you after he had a chance to review your case during a session with him.
You may eventually want or need to add an adjunct to your methyphenidate or try another yet another amphetamine. I will always be here to give more suggestions. But this is enough for you take take on at this time.
I'm rooting for you so please keep us informed on how it goes in locating the doctor that will meet your needs.
Best wishes,
AndrewB
Posted by PhoenixGirl on February 6, 2001, at 11:23:46
In reply to Re: Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy? » PhoenixGirl, posted by Katz on February 5, 2001, at 16:25:46
Hi Kathy,
It really IS a crime that no doctor will prescribe Ritalin for you. In this country, we have such a ridiculous and paranoid attitude about drugs. Just look at our supremely unsuccessful but continued "drug war". But there must be a doctor who will prescribe it for you. You may have to build up a relationship with a doctor so that she knows that you're not a drug abuser. That's so stupid, but it might come to that. Just tell the doctor what you told us.
I was put on imipramine at 13, and have since tried Zoloft, Effexor, Luvox, Serzone, Anafranil, Celexa, trazodone, selegiline, Remeron, and now desipramine. The reason I changed meds was usually because of having only partial effectiveness. Actually everything I've ever tried was only partially effective. Many of these drugs ruin my sex life.
The desipramine seems to work a little better than others I've tried. I think that the majorly noradrenergic meds work best for me. The desipramine has sexual side effects for me, but they are less severe than with the other meds I've tried in the last few years. My next goal is to try modafinil, adrafinil, or another stimulant to see if it will allow me to reduce the desipramine. I just refuse to live like an 80 year old woman when I'm only 23.
You've tried so many ADs, like me, so a doctor must see your desperation. It sounds to me like the benefits of Ritalin outweigh its risks. There is just no excuse for prolonging your miserable so unnecessarily. I think that if you found a pdoc who was a real BIOpsychiatrist, he would be more likely to prescribe the Ritalin. Good luck, take care.
Hi PG,
>
> I'm sorry to hear that you have suffered so long and so much. I'm happy that you are still here! You are obviously a kind and loving person willing to extend your hand to help fellow suffers. Your imput is valuable and very much appreciated. You are so young, yet so wise. Your whole life is infront of you. I hope you will find the happiness you deserve. If you don't mind my asking, what meds are you currently having success with?
>
> Back to your question. If it were up to me, I would still be on Ritilin. I cannot find a doc in my area to prescribe it for me. Personally, I think it is a crime. Several years ago I was seeing a doc three states away who prescribed the Ritilin for me. The expense of traveling so far (gas, food, motel, etc.) became prohibitive. The doctor required that I make the journey once a month. I just couldn't do it.
>
> Wishing you continued success,
>
> Kathy
>
> Hi Kathy,
> >
> > I understand the hell that you're going through. I've tried many meds with only partial success with any of them. But don't give up! I'm 23, and have had serious depression and social phobia since age 12. When I was 17 I tried to kill myself, but I'm glad I didn't give up because I've made progress since then.
> > In your post, you said that methylphenidate helped you, and that after 6 months you hadn't developed tolerance. Why did you go off of it? Maybe you should go back on it because you are obviously suffering considerably. Hang in there, you're not the only one.
> >
> > PG
> >
> > Hi Kathy:
> > > I can certainly relate to your situation.I wish I could help but unfortunately I am no expert in pharmacology like Andrew.
> > > Please hang in there! I've suffered from depression and social phobia for 10 years. I, too, drank excessive amounts to medicate only to become an alcoholic.
> > > Believe me, i know there is medication out there to help you.
> > > I finally begged my Doctor to let me try Mirapex along with a low dose of risperdal and it has been my success story. Risperdal alone used to do the trick but it sort of pooped out on me. Then I added Mirapex and I can honestly say my life is a lot better. I, too, used to spend a lot of time in bed. I used to sleep a lot, that was my way of escaping esp. after i quit drinking.
> > >
> > > Maybe, you can try adding the Bromo. or Requip to Reboxetine.
> > >
> > > For me personally, I have to take Risperdal and Mirapex together to get the desired effect. I went 10 days without risperdal and got severely depressed. Same with Mirapex.
> > >
> > > I wish I could help more.
> > >
> > > All the best and keep posting.
> > >
> > > Nat
Posted by MarkinBoston on February 6, 2001, at 18:14:23
In reply to Re: Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy?, posted by PhoenixGirl on February 6, 2001, at 11:23:46
> Hi Kathy,
>
> It really IS a crime that no doctor will prescribe Ritalin for you.Hey, you could shake down schoolkids for their Ritalin instead of lunch money! Just joking!
When you do talk to a local doc, I think its important that they know, from what I read here, that when you found yourself dependant on GHB or alchohol, you were aware of it, wanted to stop taking it, and succeeded. If you were also able to set and keep limits on the amounts of "addictive" drugs you took, that is good too.
This takes you out of the drug seeking addict for whom a doctor would be weary of prescribing a scheduled drug like Ritalin.
Your social phobia sounds like the most important thing to treat. I'm nervous at cocktail parties - I can't imagine what you've been through. You're a trooper.
Get the Ritalin if that's what works. No way should you suffer when the cure is so easy. If I had any (left), I would mail you some just to get you functional enough to leave the house and see a pdoc for a script. Screw the law. You're in a prison already. If I was on chemotherapy and the only thing that kept me from puking was pot, I'd get it and smoke it, even though I don't like the stuff. None of these drugs are as additive or deadly as cigarettes, so I have no moral objection.
Posted by Katz on February 6, 2001, at 18:22:06
In reply to Re: Kathy, posted by AndrewB on February 6, 2001, at 2:27:56
Hi Andrew,
Actually, the fact that you are not an MD is a comforting one. I have no confidence in the
medical profession where incompetence seems to reign! I'm sure there are some very good
doctors out there but finding them is like playing Russian Roulette!Addressing your question: Dexedrine was inert from day one and possibly caused depression over time. Of course the depression could have been caused because of my disappointment that it was not working. Adderall was never tried. I did cocaine on two
occasions 15 years ago. It was so good that I never did it again because I knew I would
become addicted. To steal a phrase from JohnL, Andrafinil or in my case Methylphenidate
"snuck in threw the back door". My girlfriend was the first to notice the profound change in
my personality. Question: is it possible that I will not build up a tolerance to
methylpehnidate in the same way that ADD/ADHD patients "supposedly" do not?Seeking out a doc to prescribe amphetamines is a difficult one. I will try! I will do as you say
and place a post looking for information about a pharmacology doc in my area. I have seen
pdocs at two large teaching hospitals without success. My requests for amphetamines were
denied. To them, the idea was taboo! I will call again and ask for a pharmacology doc
specifically but quite frankly I believe those where the types of docs I was seeing. I live in
Worcester,Massachusetts and my only alternative may be to go to Boston. I really don't
know if I can do that. I am phobic about Boston! But with your support and all the support
that I have been getting from this wonderful board, I just may be able to find the courage to
do that. I will gather what information I can and aim for a spring appointment. I will need
that much time to psych myself up for the task.In the meantime, do you have any other ideas as to a new med to experiment with?
Pikmileone? COMT? One of the other antiphychotics? Lithium? I believe my last doc was
about to try lithium (even though I am not bipolar). From what I have read, lithium seems
counter indicated in my case. It seems like it would really knock me out!Andrew, I have another question about biochemistry that may or may not yield another piece
to the puzzle. I have struggled with weight issues since puberty. In my early twenties I lost
the weight and kept it off for approx. 7 years using the drug Ionamin as an aid. I maintained
my weight on starvation level calories (500 or under). I remember thinking at the time that I
felt "normal" for the first time in my life. I think it was the Ionamin. But that is not the point that I am trying to get to. I am now 47. My real psychological problems began at 27 when
coincidentally, I stopped taking the ionamin. Still not the point. This is: I am unable to lose
weight despite extremely restricted diets. It is the exact same phenomena that those on SSRI's
are complaining of. "The body refuses to release it's fat." Here's the clincher: during the 5
days I was on the amisulpride, I developed a ravenous appetite and I actually lost 3 pounds!
Now, whether the amisulpride was responsible would have taken a much longer trial but I
find the coincidence fascinating. It may also be of interest to know that I never lost a pound
while on the methylpenidate.Again, I must apologize for my lengthy reply. It's just that you seem to have such a keen
grasp of biochemistry that I am almost hopeful that given enough clues, you just may be able
to unlock this mystery.I have already placed an order for sulpride and requip. Since I have nothing better to do, I
guess I will give them a try. Who knows, the sulpride may be just different enough to work.
If you have any other ideas up your sleeves, please let me know.With sincere gratitude,
Kathy
p.s.- have you heard the latest news from the medical profession that exercise is a cure for
depression. Now who' s the genius to put forth this theory? It's long been known that exercise
releases endorphins that make one "feel good". Could this jerk possibly be suggesting that
one in the depths of depression or in the grips of anhadonia implement such an impossible
undertaking? So much for medical expertise! The information I have gathered on this board is of greater value than anything any MD has ever offered.> Kathy,
>
> I'm sorry that you've been sufferring so.
>
> First of all, I'd like to say that you can get your life back. I'm going to give you a roadmap on how to get back on methylphenidate or another but before I do would like to say a couple of things.
>
> One, I'm in no way an expert and have no medical training. I have however taught myself about mood and related disorders due to dysfuntion of the dopaminergic and glutaminergic system, an area largely ignored by mainstream US psychiatry unfortunately. I can offer suggestions for people who may have disorders of this nature but my best suggestion I believe is that if you have a mood disorder unresponsive to traditional ADs seek the best help out there. That usually means going to a person self-described as a psychopharmocologist.
>
> Kathy do not do a trial with bromocriptine. It is not worth your time.
>
> About your dizziness, the dopaminergic system has pathways that extend to the inner ear. Dopamine keeps the glutaminergic excitatation in check in the inner ear. Your dizziness due to amisulpride may be an indication of glutaminergic dysfunction (just as JohnLs tinnitus in response to so many meds may be). Dopaminergic and glutaminergic dysfunction can be very much intertwined. I can't say for sure without doing some research, but it seems that even at 25mg.s, the amisulpride is antagonizing the postsynaptic receptors rather than the desired target, the presynaptic dopamine autoreceptors.
>
> Now a question, you tried a couple other stimulants like dexedrine, did you have any initial response to these meds that quickly faded away or were they inert upon your system from day one?
>
> ****Okay you can get methyphenidate for mood disorders or other amphetamines without too much trouble. The key is to locate the right doctor. This will require some phone calling on your part. Social phobia can make this daunting but you need to be brave because the alternative is to let let your life wind itself out amoungst the shadows.
>
> Step 1: Write a note on this board telling people where you live and if anybody knows of a good doctor in your area who has prescribed them amphetamines.
>
> Step 2: Call the psychiatric departments of large nearby hospitals and ask for names and contact information for psychopharmocologists. (GPs often refuse to prescribe amphetamines for mood disorders, the more knowledgeable professionals however tend to be much more willing.)
>
> Step 3: Call the psychopharmocologists, you will usually get a receptionist or an answering machine, tell them you are prospective patient and (if the pdoc is taking patients) ask to arrange for a 5 minute phone conversation with the pdoc at a prearranged time.
>
> Step 4: Write down what you want to say before hand if you think you will be nervous during this conversation. In the conversation, briefly describe your condition, mention your positive response to amphetamine, and ask if he would consider prescribing an amphetamine to you after he had a chance to review your case during a session with him.
>
> You may eventually want or need to add an adjunct to your methyphenidate or try another yet another amphetamine. I will always be here to give more suggestions. But this is enough for you take take on at this time.
>
> I'm rooting for you so please keep us informed on how it goes in locating the doctor that will meet your needs.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> AndrewB
Posted by Katz on February 6, 2001, at 18:37:01
In reply to Re: Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy?, posted by MarkinBoston on February 6, 2001, at 18:14:23
You guys are great!!! I want to let you know that I will address both your posts individually tomorrow. I'm Currently battling it out with the husband which is causing quite a distraction and anything I would post now really would be incoherrent babbling!!! It would appear that he is jealous of all the time I am spending online and more specifically on the board.
Cheers,
Kathy
> > Hi Kathy,
> >
> > It really IS a crime that no doctor will prescribe Ritalin for you.
>
> Hey, you could shake down schoolkids for their Ritalin instead of lunch money! Just joking!
>
> When you do talk to a local doc, I think its important that they know, from what I read here, that when you found yourself dependant on GHB or alchohol, you were aware of it, wanted to stop taking it, and succeeded. If you were also able to set and keep limits on the amounts of "addictive" drugs you took, that is good too.
>
> This takes you out of the drug seeking addict for whom a doctor would be weary of prescribing a scheduled drug like Ritalin.
>
> Your social phobia sounds like the most important thing to treat. I'm nervous at cocktail parties - I can't imagine what you've been through. You're a trooper.
>
> Get the Ritalin if that's what works. No way should you suffer when the cure is so easy. If I had any (left), I would mail you some just to get you functional enough to leave the house and see a pdoc for a script. Screw the law. You're in a prison already. If I was on chemotherapy and the only thing that kept me from puking was pot, I'd get it and smoke it, even though I don't like the stuff. None of these drugs are as additive or deadly as cigarettes, so I have no moral objection.
Posted by Marie1 on February 6, 2001, at 21:13:05
In reply to Re: Kathy » AndrewB, posted by Katz on February 6, 2001, at 18:22:06
> Kathy,
I read with interest your statement that during the time you were taking Ionamin (phentermine) for weight loss, you felt "normal" for the first time in your life. I know just how you felt; I've realized for years that phentermine in combination with ssri's - Prozac - is what keeps my forever long curse of depression at bay. Last spring when I quit taking phentermine I developed major depression. Recently I began taking taking phentermine again (ostensibly for weight loss) and feel much more like my old self. This is one area in which my pdoc and I differ opinions. He thinks I have an amphetimine addiction/dependance. And maybe I do, in the same way I have a dependance on ssri's to keep me from the pits of hell. On prozac and buspar alone I don't feel suicidal, but I also don't feel energetic or enthused or motivated - important quality of life stuff. Anyway, I'm hoping you find someone to prescribe ritalin for you. Isn't it unfortunate that besides suffering from your disease the way you do, you're also made to feel like a scum of the earth addict to get what makes you feel better?>
>
Posted by AndrewB on February 7, 2001, at 1:00:00
In reply to Re: Kathy » AndrewB, posted by Katz on February 6, 2001, at 18:22:06
Kathy,
The main thing to remember about locating a pdoc to prescribe methylphenidate is to use the 5 minute phone call with them to prescreen them. Gather up a significant # of pdoc contacts and do this prescreening. Ask them if they have used amphetamine to treat depression and if they are open to doing it again. Don't make an appointment until you find a doc that gives you a very positive indication that he is comfortable prescribing amphetamines for depression.
Phentermine (Ionamin) can be purchased with ease over the internet. It is an amphetamine like substance.
Best of luck with your Requip trial. Requip is not as strong as a D3 agonist as Mirapex so it may not have the same likelihood of success. One article stated that 4.5 mg. of Mirapex equals 15mg. of Requip. If so, your ideal dose may be 5 mg. taken 3 times a day (15mg./day total). I strongly suggest that you get domperidone from Farmacia Cerati and take it with the Requip to avoid nausea as you slowly titrate up your dosage.
Let us know how it goes.
You can email me at andrewb@seanet. and I can tell you where to get something that I'm pretty sure will tide you over and give 'courage' to make all the calls you need to make.
Remember, in all likelihood there is a p-doc in your area that will prescribe the methyphenidate. You have to do some digging though, one shovelfull at a time.
AndrewB
Posted by Katz on February 7, 2001, at 15:26:11
In reply to Re: Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy?, posted by PhoenixGirl on February 6, 2001, at 11:23:46
Hi Phoenix,You are absolutely right...it is a crime and I believe a case of malpractice! These doctors are playing God with peoples lives. When something works, it works. Nobody aside from that particular individual knows what's going on inside their head and the effect that a particular med is having on them. When I told this particular doc that the effexor was actually making me more depressed, she was incredulous! She actually tried to convince me that I must be mistaken. Needless to say, I ditched her fast!
I can relate to what you have said about not wanting to live like an 80 year old woman at 23. You shouldn't have to. You should give yourself lots of credit for continuing to seek the correct treatment and not giving up or losing hope. That's exactly what I did all those many years ago and as a consequence watched my youth and my life slip through my fingers. Whatever you do, don't let that happen to you! I can tell you from first hand experience that if you suffer from social phobia, the more you isolate yourself the worse the problem becomes. It is nearly impossible for me to leave the house at this point in time. I have grown more and more reclusive through the years. My condition has deteriorated from Social Phobia to Avoidant Personality Disorder. Again, please don't let this happen to you.
Have you considered trying amisulpride? It would only be a short investment in time (4 days) to discover whether or not it would work for you. Have you heard of Reboxetine. It is a reuptake inhibitor of noradrenaline specifically. I had mixed results with this one. I plan to do a retrial in the near future. It is not currently approved for use in the US but can be purchased easily overseas w/o prescription. You might want to consult with that new doc in Atlanta (when you find him/her) about a trial with either of these two along with the andrafinil that you mentioned.
I am keeping you in my prayers.
Best wishes,
Kathy
>Hi Kathy,
>
> It really IS a crime that no doctor will prescribe Ritalin for you. In this country, we have such a ridiculous and paranoid attitude about drugs. Just look at our supremely unsuccessful but continued "drug war". But there must be a doctor who will prescribe it for you. You may have to build up a relationship with a doctor so that she knows that you're not a drug abuser. That's so stupid, but it might come to that. Just tell the doctor what you told us.
> I was put on imipramine at 13, and have since tried Zoloft, Effexor, Luvox, Serzone, Anafranil, Celexa, trazodone, selegiline, Remeron, and now desipramine. The reason I changed meds was usually because of having only partial effectiveness. Actually everything I've ever tried was only partially effective. Many of these drugs ruin my sex life.
> The desipramine seems to work a little better than others I've tried. I think that the majorly noradrenergic meds work best for me. The desipramine has sexual side effects for me, but they are less severe than with the other meds I've tried in the last few years. My next goal is to try modafinil, adrafinil, or another stimulant to see if it will allow me to reduce the desipramine. I just refuse to live like an 80 year old woman when I'm only 23.
> You've tried so many ADs, like me, so a doctor must see your desperation. It sounds to me like the benefits of Ritalin outweigh its risks. There is just no excuse for prolonging your miserable so unnecessarily. I think that if you found a pdoc who was a real BIOpsychiatrist, he would be more likely to prescribe the Ritalin. Good luck, take care.
>
>
> Hi PG,
> >
> > I'm sorry to hear that you have suffered so long and so much. I'm happy that you are still here! You are obviously a kind and loving person willing to extend your hand to help fellow suffers. Your imput is valuable and very much appreciated. You are so young, yet so wise. Your whole life is infront of you. I hope you will find the happiness you deserve. If you don't mind my asking, what meds are you currently having success with?
> >
> > Back to your question. If it were up to me, I would still be on Ritilin. I cannot find a doc in my area to prescribe it for me. Personally, I think it is a crime. Several years ago I was seeing a doc three states away who prescribed the Ritilin for me. The expense of traveling so far (gas, food, motel, etc.) became prohibitive. The doctor required that I make the journey once a month. I just couldn't do it.
> >
> > Wishing you continued success,
> >
> > Kathy
> >
> > Hi Kathy,
> > >
> > > I understand the hell that you're going through. I've tried many meds with only partial success with any of them. But don't give up! I'm 23, and have had serious depression and social phobia since age 12. When I was 17 I tried to kill myself, but I'm glad I didn't give up because I've made progress since then.
> > > In your post, you said that methylphenidate helped you, and that after 6 months you hadn't developed tolerance. Why did you go off of it? Maybe you should go back on it because you are obviously suffering considerably. Hang in there, you're not the only one.
> > >
> > > PG
> > >
> > > Hi Kathy:
> > > > I can certainly relate to your situation.I wish I could help but unfortunately I am no expert in pharmacology like Andrew.
> > > > Please hang in there! I've suffered from depression and social phobia for 10 years. I, too, drank excessive amounts to medicate only to become an alcoholic.
> > > > Believe me, i know there is medication out there to help you.
> > > > I finally begged my Doctor to let me try Mirapex along with a low dose of risperdal and it has been my success story. Risperdal alone used to do the trick but it sort of pooped out on me. Then I added Mirapex and I can honestly say my life is a lot better. I, too, used to spend a lot of time in bed. I used to sleep a lot, that was my way of escaping esp. after i quit drinking.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe, you can try adding the Bromo. or Requip to Reboxetine.
> > > >
> > > > For me personally, I have to take Risperdal and Mirapex together to get the desired effect. I went 10 days without risperdal and got severely depressed. Same with Mirapex.
> > > >
> > > > I wish I could help more.
> > > >
> > > > All the best and keep posting.
> > > >
> > > > Nat
Posted by Katz on February 7, 2001, at 15:35:57
In reply to Re: Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy?, posted by MarkinBoston on February 6, 2001, at 18:14:23
Hi Mark,
LOL! Shaking down those school kids is not a bad idea. I'd probably be doing them a favor. Half of them shouldn't be on the stuff anyway!
Are you really from Boston? I'm from Worcester, MA. Do you know of a good pdoc in the area who would be willing to prescribe the ritilin for depression? I'm really phobic about traveling to Boston. I always get lost in that damn city and there's never any parking. But, if I must bite the bullet to get better, I must. If all else fails, I will travel to Boston for treatment.
Thanks for all you support,
Kathy
Hi Kathy,
> >
> > It really IS a crime that no doctor will prescribe Ritalin for you.
>
> Hey, you could shake down schoolkids for their Ritalin instead of lunch money! Just joking!
>
> When you do talk to a local doc, I think its important that they know, from what I read here, that when you found yourself dependant on GHB or alchohol, you were aware of it, wanted to stop taking it, and succeeded. If you were also able to set and keep limits on the amounts of "addictive" drugs you took, that is good too.
>
> This takes you out of the drug seeking addict for whom a doctor would be weary of prescribing a scheduled drug like Ritalin.
>
> Your social phobia sounds like the most important thing to treat. I'm nervous at cocktail parties - I can't imagine what you've been through. You're a trooper.
>
> Get the Ritalin if that's what works. No way should you suffer when the cure is so easy. If I had any (left), I would mail you some just to get you functional enough to leave the house and see a pdoc for a script. Screw the law. You're in a prison already. If I was on chemotherapy and the only thing that kept me from puking was pot, I'd get it and smoke it, even though I don't like the stuff. None of these drugs are as additive or deadly as cigarettes, so I have no moral objection.
Posted by Katz on February 7, 2001, at 16:10:49
In reply to Re: Kathy/Ionamin, posted by Marie1 on February 6, 2001, at 21:13:05
Hi Marie,
Many people on this board with depression have found the addition of simulants greatly beneficial. If your doc is making you feel "like the scum of the earth", perhaps you should seek treatment elsewhere. First hand experience dictates that many of these "go by the book" pdocs consider stimulants for depression taboo! They are wrong!
Phentermine is readily available over the internet. The unfortunate part about that is that they're getting ten times more than what you would pay at a regular drugstore if you had a script.
Can't you go to your regular GP and ask for a script for weightloss? I just wonder though if adding phentermine to SSRI's could result in the same kind of heart problems that the fen/phen combinatin created. I think this is a question that AndrewB would be able to offer some guidence with.
Thank you for your encouraging words. Finding this board is the best thing that has happened to me in a longtime. All the encouragement I am receiving from fellow babblers is giving me the courage to seek the treatment that I need and not to stop until I find the right doctor. I hope you will do the same.
Best wishes,
Kathy
Kathy,
> I read with interest your statement that during the time you were taking Ionamin (phentermine) for weight loss, you felt "normal" for the first time in your life. I know just how you felt; I've realized for years that phentermine in combination with ssri's - Prozac - is what keeps my forever long curse of depression at bay. Last spring when I quit taking phentermine I developed major depression. Recently I began taking taking phentermine again (ostensibly for weight loss) and feel much more like my old self. This is one area in which my pdoc and I differ opinions. He thinks I have an amphetimine addiction/dependance. And maybe I do, in the same way I have a dependance on ssri's to keep me from the pits of hell. On prozac and buspar alone I don't feel suicidal, but I also don't feel energetic or enthused or motivated - important quality of life stuff. Anyway, I'm hoping you find someone to prescribe ritalin for you. Isn't it unfortunate that besides suffering from your disease the way you do, you're also made to feel like a scum of the earth addict to get what makes you feel better?
>
> >
> >
Posted by MarkinBoston on February 7, 2001, at 16:14:12
In reply to Re: Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy? » MarkinBoston, posted by Katz on February 7, 2001, at 15:35:57
Kathy, send some email to me: jfcl36@hotmail.com
I live just outside Boston and my Pdoc is in Lexington and has free parking. I don't want to post her name and phone number here. Its partly out of fear that some government peon looking for a promotion or a little press might go after her, not caring how good she is at helping people, and partly because I want to be able to get an appointment in a reasonable amount of time when I need one!
She has evening appointments up to 7pm on some weekdays. I'll give you her name and number.
She does not use meds not approved in the US, but may use approved drugs for any use she deems fit. With stimulants and thyroid, she has used them as adjuncts to antidepression meds.
> Hi Mark,
> Are you really from Boston? I'm from Worcester, MA
Posted by PhoenixGirl on February 7, 2001, at 18:05:47
In reply to Re: Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy? » PhoenixGirl, posted by Katz on February 7, 2001, at 15:26:11
Hi Kathy,
I was going to refer you to MarkInBoston, but it looks like he already told you that he has a doc that prescribes amphetamines for him.
You're so right about social phobia getting worse the more you isolate yourself. I had it so bad for years, and then I got very good therapy called "cognitive behavioral therapy". I highly, highly recommend this to you. In this therapy, you practice talking to people in a group. You "act out" the situations that scare you the most. You build up to that, starting with baby steps. Also, the therapist helps you to see the irrationality of your social phobic thoughts. I did regular talk therapy for years to no avail, and doing this therapy helped me immensely in a few months. Mind you, it's difficult because you're taking on your fears, but please, please try it if you haven't yet. I did my therapy at the Psychology Clinic at the U. of Georgia, where they were studying this technique. The doctor who headed is named Dr. Nadir Amir, and the phone number is 706-542-1173 If you call him, he could probably tell you of a doctor in your area who practices this type of therapy. There must also be an organization like the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill who could point you toward a therapist. I know it will be difficult for you to reach out, but if I could do it you can do it. I truly believe that this therapy saved my life. I still have difficulties, but they're so much less and they don't rule me like before.
About me. I've considered taking amisulpride -- does it increase or inhibit dopamine? I'm considering trying reboxetine too, so there will be less serotonin action and so theoretically less sexual dysfunction. Talk to you later.
Posted by Sulpicia on February 7, 2001, at 18:08:52
In reply to Email me! » Katz, posted by MarkinBoston on February 7, 2001, at 16:14:12
Hi Everyone --
I've been following this thread with great interest and perhaps some of you may find my own experience useful.
I've suffered from chronic depression since the age of 13; I've been successfully treated with tofranil 3x, or so I thought.
About a year ago my son was tested for ADD/HD and for everything that we said "no" to for him, I said "yes" to for myself. A month later I was evaluated and diagnosed with ADD inattentive type [no hyperactivity].
I was prescribed adderall and I cannot even begin to explain how my life, to say nothing of my mood, has changed for the better.
After my evaluation with the pdoc he told me that adult ADD/HD is widely underdiagnosed and very, very often co-morbid with depression. Females especially tend not to be evaluated because they have the inattentive type and so get written off as "daydreamers."
I was sceptical at first because although I had a spotty academic career at one point, I was smart enough to compensate for my ADD. In fact if it had not been for my slow reading speed making me crazy in grad school, I might never have pursued diagnosis and treatment.I'm NOT suggesting that people rush out and *look* for a diagnosis of ADD/HD. I merely wish to point out that many adults are diagnosed in their 30s and 40s.
If you search for the ADD site at About.com there are some online tests and descriptions of symptoms etc. Some of it may click with you. This doesn't mean that it will be easy to find a clinician to evaluate you and prescribe appropriate meds and therapy.
The CHADD web site is also very good for adult ADD/HD.Just thought I would share this because I've been dramatically helped by accurate dx and tx.
S.
ps -- if you search Dr. Bob's psychopharmacology tips [stimulants] you'll find some interesting discussion of pdocs who use stims as an add-on for tx of depression.
Posted by natg on February 7, 2001, at 18:46:39
In reply to Re: Why did you stop taking Ritalin, Kathy? » MarkinBoston, posted by Katz on February 7, 2001, at 15:35:57
Dear kathy:
I've been reading this thread with great interest.
I agree that it is a great crime that Doctors will not prescribe stimulants for depression.
I relate to your struggle. I had the most difficult time finding a doctor that was open enough to try something other than Prozac, Paxil, etc. It's been a huge task. To make matters worse, there was only one Psychiatrist in the city I live in that was even taking new patients and I had to wait 6 weeks to see him.
It is crazy!At the end, i went to the ER and found a semi- decent Doctor. He's not a psychiatrist but he has been very open- minded. I think he got sick and tired of seing me in his office every other week.
Anyway, I wish you all the luck in the world. I know it will work out for you.
Don't give up, no matter what. As long as you are willing to keep trying, I believe you will find the right Doctor.Please keep posting.
Good Luck to you,
Nat
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