![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 46 to 70 of 82. Go back in thread:
Posted by danf on June 15, 2000, at 16:34:15
In reply to a natural remedy that works but is controversial, posted by Cari on June 8, 2000, at 14:11:02
This is not an attack !
I would say you are playing with a fire that may consume you.
Pot is well known to induce paranoia & anxiety. It is not a function of any contaminant. It is foolish to mix psychoactive drugs & pot.
How to you think you will ever find a med treatment regimen that works if you add in POT ?
If YOUR current drug regimen does not work, then it needs to be modified. Adding POT on your own is just likely to cause meds that may help you to not work.
I feel for you & the pain you carry, which must be immense !
Posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 15:43:42
In reply to Re: BuSpar, posted by Walter on June 5, 2000, at 10:19:37
> Took buspar 10 mg daily for 1 yr. Ineffective at that dosage level. When taken with a lot of caffeine, it destroyed my sex drive . I threw the BUSPAR away. will try stress relieve exercises etc. You need to take at least 20 to 30mg daily to be of any use.
I am taking Buspar right now with a combination of Zoloft. I am on 10mg. I feel this is going to do nothing for me. I have been feeling the effects of hypomania. Not only now, but all my life. Is this combination good or am I kidding myself. She is going to raise the dose on the Buspar next month. She gave me a low dose because the drug made me so sluggish the first few days.
Posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 16:05:23
In reply to Anxiety, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:18:34
> It's so weird because my racing heart and anxiety seems to come in groups of days, then goes for a week or two, then is back...?
i have the same effects. i feel so hyped up an happy. a few days later i blow up. i become so afraid of myself and others finding out the "real" me.
Posted by Evelyn on June 17, 2000, at 8:26:05
In reply to Re: Anxiety, posted by Andrea Gomez on June 16, 2000, at 16:05:31
It's so sad how we are all suffering with this anxiety. I am now home out on disability because of it. Buspar was a horrible drug for me too because of my head also feeling like a "coffee percolator".
I would rather try natural remedies such as nature sunshines "nutri-calm", chamomile tea, kava kava, exercise such as roller blading, weight lifting, dancing. They are helping somewhat. But I want this anxiety to go away permantly. I've read that it takes a long time for the anxiety disease to develop, and it will take time for it to heal.
I pray to God to help us all, and to heal us. We just want to be normal, and live our lives with happiness. I think we all deserve to be healthy, happy, peaceful and calm.
Posted by crazy on August 26, 2000, at 11:38:24
In reply to Re: Anxiety, posted by Evelyn on June 17, 2000, at 8:26:05
> It's so sad how we are all suffering with this anxiety. I am now home out on disability because of it. Buspar was a horrible drug for me too because of my head also feeling like a "coffee percolator".
>
> I would rather try natural remedies such as nature sunshines "nutri-calm", chamomile tea, kava kava, exercise such as roller blading, weight lifting, dancing. They are helping somewhat. But I want this anxiety to go away permantly. I've read that it takes a long time for the anxiety disease to develop, and it will take time for it to heal.
>
> I pray to God to help us all, and to heal us. We just want to be normal, and live our lives with happiness. I think we all deserve to be healthy, happy, peaceful and calm.I have had one hell of a year this year and I was told I had a nervous breakdown in June of this year (2000). I was put on Remeron, but I seemed to be irritated easily and put on weight. I am now starting Serzone and taking Xanax for the anxiety. Sometimes I feel incompacitated and I feel that my family is paying for it. I just don't know what to do. The anxiety is driving me crazy. I've never had any problems like this before and I don't know what to do. I do pray for help, but it just seems like the minutes don't pass fast enough.
Posted by Nibor on August 26, 2000, at 13:32:51
In reply to Re: Anxiety, posted by crazy on August 26, 2000, at 11:38:24
What has helped me for anxiety is paxil. I take 20 mg. every morning; I have heard it keeps people awake when taken late in the day. I never have problems falling asleep (well, maybe once in a great while when I get overtired).
There are the usual side effects in the libido area, and I do have more vivid, action-oriented dreams, but I think that's about it.
Have you ever taken paxil? Also, and very important, do you have a therapist you like?
Take care of yourself.
Nibor> I have had one hell of a year this year and I was told I had a nervous breakdown in June of this year (2000). I was put on Remeron, but I seemed to be irritated easily and put on weight. I am now starting Serzone and taking Xanax for the anxiety. Sometimes I feel incompacitated and I feel that my family is paying for it. I just don't know what to do. The anxiety is driving me crazy. I've never had any problems like this before and I don't know what to do. I do pray for help, but it just seems like the minutes don't pass fast enough.
Posted by crazy on August 29, 2000, at 10:10:37
In reply to Re: Anxiety » crazy, posted by Nibor on August 26, 2000, at 13:32:51
Nibor
Thanks for your suggestions. I had a nervous breakdown in June and my doctor told me not to look for a therapist until my medication was under control. I am still working on that part. I am only on 100 mg/day, so I have a ways to go yet. The anxiety is always sitting in my stomach just waiting for something to stir it up. The Xanax is addicting, so I try not to take it unless I absolutely need it. As far as Paxil goes, my mom is on it and doesn't like it and I have heard many bad things about withdrawal from Paxil. I would just prefer to not take anything at all. I don't know what to do. I better give Serzone a try though. I also read something about Remeron. It said that if you increase the done from 30 mg to 45 mg it will diminish the appetite. I could always try that to. Thank you. >> What has helped me for anxiety is paxil. I take 20 mg. every morning; I have heard it keeps people awake when taken late in the day. I never have problems falling asleep (well, maybe once in a great while when I get overtired).
> There are the usual side effects in the libido area, and I do have more vivid, action-oriented dreams, but I think that's about it.
> Have you ever taken paxil? Also, and very important, do you have a therapist you like?
> Take care of yourself.
> Nibor
>
> > I have had one hell of a year this year and I was told I had a nervous breakdown in June of this year (2000). I was put on Remeron, but I seemed to be irritated easily and put on weight. I am now starting Serzone and taking Xanax for the anxiety. Sometimes I feel incompacitated and I feel that my family is paying for it. I just don't know what to do. The anxiety is driving me crazy. I've never had any problems like this before and I don't know what to do. I do pray for help, but it just seems like the minutes don't pass fast enough.
Posted by fanderson on September 10, 2000, at 12:20:19
In reply to Pot and melatonin, posted by pollypop on June 8, 2000, at 16:16:06
> I have been told this by alot of people...but am a chicken about trying! When I quit smoking many years ago, it was because of *paranoid* pot reactions...but who knows maybe now it would be different...with just a little bit...
>
Hi,
Smoking pot is not good for folks like me who have anxiety disorders. It made me paranoid also, so I would combine it with alcohol. You can probably guess how that worked out after several years. I,m OK now, but there are legal drugs that do a better job.
Posted by pullmarine on September 24, 2000, at 3:00:23
In reply to Re: Pot and melatonin, posted by fanderson on September 10, 2000, at 12:20:19
Pot and other hallucinogenics, but also strong stimulants are really dangerous to people who have tendencies for depression or anxiety or psychosis. I'm speaking from experience, stay away from that stuff.
Posted by SteveL on September 27, 2000, at 17:43:28
In reply to Re: Pot and melatonin, posted by pullmarine on September 24, 2000, at 3:00:23
I wandered into this thread looking for some info on Remeron and found the comments on cannabis fascinating. In my experience and observation it is one of the most complex drugs in wide use and cannot be simply characterized. Some of the most honorable and psychologically healthy folks I've known use it occasionally to regularly and I've also seen it ill-used by more than a few others. Its legal status clouds the issue tremendously, as well as the wide variability of both potency and qualitative effects. The availability of better potency and quality of "buds" is considered by most to be a definite advantage, as the desired effect can be archived with less smoke(better for the lungs, etc.).
I cannot argue with anyone's personal bad experiences or downplay the possible complications in conjunction with "doctor approved" meds, but I find the unqualified condemnatory tone and outright snideness of some of the posts all too common. We don't usually express this kind of contempt across the board towards all drinkers of alcohol, even though its profound dangers are widely recognized.
In my observation, as well as from comments of many people over the years(30), cannabis is generally not useful in cases of severe anxiety. It might be classified in part as a "minor psychedelic" and is probably best avoided by most folks with serious mental illnesses, especially those not already personally familiar with its effects.
Its most successful medical uses generally involve its salutary effects on nausea, appetite, physical pain and the associated situational, "ordinary" unhappiness. Despite its legal risks and problems with doctor's attitudes it's been a godsend for many people with cancer and other painfully debilitating diseases, and I find the common objection that they "just want to get high" curious when they are often freely prescribed narcotics and other powerful and dangerous psychoactive pharmaceuticals. Isn't feeling and getting better the whole point???
My personal experience in this area proved cannabis very useful in dealing with severe pain. It allowed me to use significantly lower doses of narcotics(30 to 70% less) while virtually eliminating the nausea and general "ickiness" and giving me the appetite and enjoyment to eat enough to maintain my weight and be more active. This was no small blessing and more effective across the board than anything the many doctors (some quite good) I saw could give me.
Thanks for all your posts, I wish you all good luck in finding your best help.
Posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 5:09:28
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by SteveL on September 27, 2000, at 17:43:28
> I don't deny that cannabis has valid medical uses, but so does opium (used both in cough sirup and in various pain killers). I've known many pot smokers, and long term chronic use leads to psychosis (as do many other substances, icluding alcohol and anxiolitics). Futhermore, and as you mentioned, there are many types of weed, with different potencies, moany of wich can no longer be considered as a soft drug, but as a hallucinogenic.
Posted by stjames on September 28, 2000, at 11:09:17
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 5:09:28
Futhermore, and as you mentioned, there are many types of weed, with different potencies, moany of wich can no longer be considered as a soft drug, but as a hallucinogenic.
james here.....
Hallucinogenic, not really. It is hard to classify pot, chemically it looks somewhat
like a psychedelic and as it potentaites
other psychedelics, as do many psychedelics,
so some call it a psychedelic. However no one
will ever trip on pot alone. The body has THC receptor sites, a finite number, once they are filled you get no higher. The level to bring on visions is far above this level. Psychotic reactions from long term use.....that is not my experience from reading and otherwise. Some people
do have negative reactions when they smoke pot, therefor they avoid it. Long term used does carry the possibility of amotavational syndrome. Where did you read this about long term and psychosis ?james
Posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 16:25:03
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by stjames on September 28, 2000, at 11:09:17
where did i read about the psychosis. i didn't read it, i witnessed it in four people including myself!
> Futhermore, and as you mentioned, there are many types of weed, with different potencies, moany of wich can no longer be considered as a soft drug, but as a hallucinogenic.
>
As for your comment about a finite number of receptors, and not being able to get higher beyond a certain point... I have no idea where u get this information. I do know that I was hospitalized and had to take neuroleptics for psychosis after I smoked a very large amount of pot. I had become convinced that people were following me and that everyone knew everything there was to know about me, and that people were going through my garbage to get data on me, etc...
definatly not a fun trip.
If you want more data on the negative effects of marijuana, check out the DSM IV, and you will see more (documented)information about how dangerous pot can be.
> james here.....
>
> Hallucinogenic, not really. It is hard to classify pot, chemically it looks somewhat
> like a psychedelic and as it potentaites
> other psychedelics, as do many psychedelics,
> so some call it a psychedelic. However no one
> will ever trip on pot alone. The body has THC receptor sites, a finite number, once they are filled you get no higher. The level to bring on visions is far above this level. Psychotic reactions from long term use.....that is not my experience from reading and otherwise. Some people
> do have negative reactions when they smoke pot, therefor they avoid it. Long term used does carry the possibility of amotavational syndrome. Where did you read this about long term and psychosis ?
>
> james
Posted by stjames on September 29, 2000, at 13:49:21
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by pullmarine on September 28, 2000, at 16:25:03
> >
> As for your comment about a finite number of receptors, and not being able to get higher beyond a certain point... I have no idea where u get this information.James here.....
Well, it is commonlly known. Many meds/drugs action is through receptor sites. GABA, opioids, and many other drugs/meds have receptor sites, and there are only so many sites in the body for a given med/drug. Therefor, finite. The drug/med fills the receptor sites till all are occupied.
Several factors determine how long the site is occupied and once the site opens up it can be refilled. It is common to think of this as a lock
and key, receptor sites only fit very specific molicules.In terms of pot, an interesting question is "why do we have a THC receptor ". I do not question that a few may have a psychotic reaction after short or long term, these numbers are very small. People have been smoking weed for thousands of years, no flipper babies yet.
James
Posted by JohnL on September 29, 2000, at 14:42:18
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by SteveL on September 27, 2000, at 17:43:28
This underscores very well my perception of correcting chemical imbalance. If someone has a particular chemical imbalance that marijuana corrects, then they may indeed find it useful as a type of medication, taken in a very similar fashion as a medication, and not taken to excess for getting high or recreation. In a person without a pre-existing marijuana-responsive chemicial imbalance however, that person will instead experience the full euphoria or marijuana and likely abuse it. It's kind of like Ritalin...if someone truly has ADHD or ADD brain chemistry, Ritalin will not get them high. It will instead make them feel more normal, because it is correcting something deficient. For someone without ADD chemistry however, they could like get a high that is similar to cocaine instead.
My psychiatrist told me that marijuana increases dopamine 6-fold. That partially explains the euphoria; sometimes psychosis-like symptoms; sometimes paranoid feelings; and sometimes rapid heartbeat...all results of massive dopamine flow. The effect is short lived however. But for a chronic marijuana user, such elevated dopamine levels cause down regulation of the receptors, so they are less and less responsive over time, and thus the tolerance buildup experienced by chronic users, and the need for larger quantities and higher quality to get high. Where a tiny pinjoint of mediocre weed used to do the job, the chronic user now needs a premium grade joint the size of a finger to get the same buzz.
Any way you look at it, I personally think marijuana has its merits, even though my pot days are behind me (too darn expensive, and risky to grow). If it works like a medication for someone, cool. If it works like a crutch, not cool. If it fixes a chemical imbalance, cool. If it elevates chemical balance beyond normal, not cool. For someone truly using it as a medication, it would be needed either on-demand--like benzos and anxiety attacks for example--or used in regularly scheduled equal size dosing routines just like a medicine. And if the user is getting high, they have gone beyond the point of medication.
John
Posted by SteveL on September 29, 2000, at 19:18:34
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by JohnL on September 29, 2000, at 14:42:18
A follow up to my earlier post:
In my non-medical use of cannabis, and the experience of many friends over a period of several decades, ever increasing doses are not required to attain the same effect. Even after a period of substantially heavier use backing off for a few days or less restores the original potency. Tolerance is real, but rather short term.
If even half of the sweeping claims of gross detrimental effects were true, many people I know, myself included, should be complete idiots by now, if not utterly insane; yet they are well regarded, working members of society with stable families and wide community involvement. I can’t think of anyone I’ve known who really screwed up their life with pot alone; no proof of complete harmlessness, of course. This can be powerful stuff, and I’ve seen it ill-used as well.
It’s worth pointing out that those of us who find our way to this site do not represent a statistically balanced cross section of the general population. Most of us have suffered some kind of significant neurological/psychological difficulties, some quite severe (near-fatal epileptic seizures and their after effects in my case), and should be careful about making unqualified generalizations from our own experiences, and those of our associates.
That said, I will only add that many people have found the ancient herb to be a very useful creative, even spiritual catalyst, and make no apologies. Call it “getting high” if you wish, but if the experiences or insights thus obtained pass the test of later, “non stoned” review, even objectively verifiable technological concepts (I’m not kidding), then what? I’ve gotten some of my best ideas this way, translated into essays, poetry, and even sophisticated working electronic devices, well reviewed by many others (non-users) who had no idea how I did it.
This is not meant as an advertisement for any drug, sanctioned or otherwise, and I stand by my earlier caveats. These matters are highly individual and personal, and ultimately we must all find our own way.
Thanks again for your comments, I wish you all well.
I really don’t think I’m quite psychotic yet, but I have to go now; my glorious alien masters are calling from the invisible Mothership--I hear and obey, Oh Great Ones!
Posted by Kath on September 30, 2000, at 8:44:19
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by stjames on September 28, 2000, at 11:09:17
Hi james,
I'm glad you mention amotivational syndrome. Obviously it doesn't happen to all pot-users. It's no small event, though. My 16-yr-old son's life pretty-well ground to a halt as a result of smoking pot for about a year.
He ended up dropping out of school with a Grade 9 education, doing serious damage to his relationship with his Dad & I, eventually getting kicked out of our home, eventually loosing all his friends & now feeling trapped, lonely, bored, etc.
At present, he's decided to take a pretty positive step for himself & will be away for a while to (hopefully) accomplish it. He's living here clean while he waits. He's a totally different person. Who knows what will happen. All I can do is pray.
Interesting point, though: Why do we have a THC receptor site? !!
Hope you're doing okay.
Cheers, Kath> Futhermore, and as you mentioned, there are many types of weed, with different potencies, moany of wich can no longer be considered as a soft drug, but as a hallucinogenic.
>
> james here.....
>
> Hallucinogenic, not really. It is hard to classify pot, chemically it looks somewhat
> like a psychedelic and as it potentaites
> other psychedelics, as do many psychedelics,
> so some call it a psychedelic. However no one
> will ever trip on pot alone. The body has THC receptor sites, a finite number, once they are filled you get no higher. The level to bring on visions is far above this level. Psychotic reactions from long term use.....that is not my experience from reading and otherwise. Some people
> do have negative reactions when they smoke pot, therefor they avoid it. Long term used does carry the possibility of amotavational syndrome. Where did you read this about long term and psychosis ?
>
> james
Posted by Joy Robins on October 3, 2000, at 0:42:37
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by JohnL on September 29, 2000, at 14:42:18
I was interested in what you wrote about Marijuana increasing dopamine levels 6 fold. My psychiatrist prescribed Seroquel for me at a low dosage to raise my dopamine levels--mostly I felt tired taking it, but sometimes felt as if I were stoned--may have just been tiredness. My question is if there is any antidepressant medication that would closely resemble or match the qualities of pot. I find the day after I have smoked pot I usually am much more relaxed, creative, positive, appreciative of life, open, sociable--I wish this were my normal state--marijuana is too draining for me to use on any kind of regular basis though--similar to caffeine in its effects for me--I can't handle caffeine either. Also, I don't like the lack of clarity with pot--but it certainly relieves any social anxiety I might have, and often makes me feel relaxed and more grounded. Any ideas input would be appreciated. Thanks, Joy
Posted by TK on October 11, 2000, at 22:54:56
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed » JohnL, posted by Joy Robins on October 3, 2000, at 0:42:37
> Hi Joy,
I have told my spouse and friends for about 10 yrs that pot alleviates my depression and anxiety and elevates my libido. Of course I am afraid to tell my MD that I use pot.I do wonder if it has negative effects on the anti-depressants I was recently put on. Does anyone know if pot interferes w/ Rxs such as: wellbutrin/ativan/zyorexa/effexor/seroquel? I am currently on just the wellbutrin/ativan as needed and started zyprexa x5 days ago for mood swings. Thanks for any input. TK
Posted by Chimera0 on March 28, 2001, at 18:03:42
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by TK on October 11, 2000, at 22:54:56
> > Hi Joy,
> I have told my spouse and friends for about 10 yrs that pot alleviates my depression and anxiety and elevates my libido. Of course I am afraid to tell my MD that I use pot.I do wonder if it has negative effects on the anti-depressants I was recently put on. Does anyone know if pot interferes w/ Rxs such as: wellbutrin/ativan/zyorexa/effexor/seroquel? I am currently on just the wellbutrin/ativan as needed and started zyprexa x5 days ago for mood swings. Thanks for any input. TK
Tell your MD about your marijuana use! Part of being an MD involves some sort of legally binding patient doctor confidentiality that will prohibit them from alerting authorities(if this is what concerns you). Your MD needs to know this information to correctly help you and will not hold it against you(i just got out of an evaluation in which i laid out my drug history without any negative affects, and i feel that it helped him understand my problems better).--Former heavy pot smoker
Posted by Kiki on March 29, 2001, at 12:28:36
In reply to BuSpar, posted by Sam on January 9, 2000, at 22:35:35
I also tried BuSpar. Not only did it not work, it made me groggy, moody, and very lightheaded.
Posted by wendy b. on November 21, 2001, at 10:33:02
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed » JohnL, posted by Joy Robins on October 3, 2000, at 0:42:37
This thread's been quiet a long time, and we've all had PLENTY of time to look for the answers (JahL, Cam, Mitchell, etc). Soooooo -
I'm wondering about the following:
Does Marijuana/cannabis/THC interfere with the mechanism of drug action of other prescription psychoactive drugs? If so, what is that mechanism? Is it true, as JohnL's doctor claimed, that smoking weed can increase dopamine levels 6-fold?
The reason I ask is because I had a terrible session yesterday with my therapist (who also prescribes meds, she is a nurse practitioner specializing in psychiatry). Besides not having much patience with my depression ("I'm not going to sit here and allow you to become a victim of this illness"), she won't alter my medication AT ALL until I am THC-free - no pot-smoking for at least one month since this is how long THC stays in the body. She is adamant that the THC is "interfering" with the other drugs at the receptor sites. I'm presently on Neurontin and Wellbutrin, with alprazolam (Xanax) as needed. I don't take much of the latter at all.
But as I have read, like in Mitchell's post in another cannabis thread, there other other compounds in marijuana. So if we only talk about THC, aren't we missing some other receptor sites?
Has any study found out how many THC receptor sites there are in the body?
The only reason I mentioned marijuana use at all to the therapist was because I was trying to explain to her the way smoking it made me feel, and I was asking her: isn't there a legal way to do this? When I am depressed like I am now, with anhedonia and lethargy, it produces energy for me, makes me interested in things ("oh, there's some laundry to fold! lovely!"), gives me a feeling of well-being. I ask you: aren't there drugs for this? Is it my dopamine levels that need a boost? What prescription drugs would anyone suggest?
I feel she is being punitive in not helping me by prescribing something right now, so I precisely DON'T HAVE TO smoke the weed, because I am already feeling that better to begin with. I feel like I'm in this Catch-22, where I take the pot to give me the desired effect, but I won't be given anything else to help me feel better until I QUIT the pot... Does anyone get this? I don't understand why I have to suffer needlessly. I am using the pot to self-medicate. So why can't I be given something legal so I don't have to? Or is this just pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking?
Questioningly yours,
Wendy
> I was interested in what you wrote about Marijuana increasing dopamine levels 6 fold. My psychiatrist prescribed Seroquel for me at a low dosage to raise my dopamine levels--mostly I felt tired taking it, but sometimes felt as if I were stoned--may have just been tiredness. My question is if there is any antidepressant medication that would closely resemble or match the qualities of pot. I find the day after I have smoked pot I usually am much more relaxed, creative, positive, appreciative of life, open, sociable--I wish this were my normal state--marijuana is too draining for me to use on any kind of regular basis though--similar to caffeine in its effects for me--I can't handle caffeine either. Also, I don't like the lack of clarity with pot--but it certainly relieves any social anxiety I might have, and often makes me feel relaxed and more grounded. Any ideas input would be appreciated. Thanks, Joy
Posted by Cam W. on November 22, 2001, at 4:10:32
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by wendy b. on November 21, 2001, at 10:33:02
Wendy - I think that what your therapist is trying to get at is that your using marijuana is taking you beyond a therapeutic response to an altering of reality. Yes, smoking pot does make you feel better, but, as James said, it takes you beyond "normal" to the point of escapism. I would think that altering of your medication, as proposed by your therapist, once you are pot-free, would be an effort to try to relieve your depression symptoms. This would mean trying to "fix" your body's stress repsonse mechanism (ie. the HPA axis; the fight-or-flight reponses) so that when you are exposed to stress your body will be better able to cope with that stress, instead of escaping from it (as your are essentially doing with marijuana).
I believe that it is far better (and healthier) to deal with the stress than to escape from it. I would think that this is what your therapist is trying to convey to you.
I am not saying that the occasional escape from reality is not healthy. This can also reduce stress. But to escape from "reality" on a daily basis is not productive. It prevents one from living life to the fullest. Occasionally letting loose in the form of a few beers, or joints, or whatever while socializing friends does relieve stress.
This stress relief can also be done without "artificial joy", although sometimes; and I do stress "sometimes" an altered state of reality can make certain events (eg. a concert, a social gathering, etc.) more enjoyable. The key is not to alter reality on a daily basis. This is counter-productive to enjoying a full life.
The choice of the form of escape must also be made responsibly. The guideline that I use is how does the form escape affect one's health. Usually moderation is the key, but there are exceptions to this guideline.
I believe that one has to draw the line at taking anything that can potentially cause permanent damage to the body. For example, taking PCP would not be a choice I would make, neither is cocaine nor heroin. I have seen both destroy lives. Granted, cocaine and heroin, if pure and done in moderation, does not cause permanent damage to the body, but one has to consider the addictive potential of these drugs.
Each person must consider the addictive potential of the drug they may choose and also how much of an addictive personality that person has. Each drug used for escape has a different potential for addiction. For crack cocaine that addictive potential appears to be high; perhaps it is slightly less for methamphetamine; less still for nicotine; less stil for heroin; less still for alcohol; less still for marijuana; less still for caffiene; and less still for LSD and magic mushrooms. The order of this list is an example or generalization and will be different for each individual, depending upon their personality, genetic make-up and social influences.
So, I believe what your therapist is trying to tell you is that she will try to help you relieve your depressive symptoms, but not through escapism. She will do it by helping you to deal with what caused the depression by either helping you to resolve the problems that caused the depression in the first place (ie. a reactive depression due to an adverse life event) or teach to live within and cope with a chronic (eg. genetic defect or reactive depression that has been cycle accelerated).
I hope that this makes some sense. Again, my limited command of the english language has made it hard for me to explain the concepts that I am trying to convey. Perhaps someone may understand what I am trying to say, and be able to write it in a more understandable way (Mair, Scott, James, Elizabeth, etc - are you willing to give it a shot - I'd also be interested to hear your comments on this). - Cam
Posted by jazzdog on November 22, 2001, at 10:56:36
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed » wendy b., posted by Cam W. on November 22, 2001, at 4:10:32
I think there is an essential distinction between using drugs to achieve a 'cocktail effect' - a feeling of warmth, elation, release of inhibitions - and using drugs to get well. It's the difference between escaping from the world and learning to engage with it in a meaningful way. As people who suffer mood disorders, we are uniquely susceptible to the temptations of the former - alcoholism and addiction rates among people with major mood disorders are over 40%, as opposed to 10% in the general population. As Cam says, occasional social recreational drug use isn't harmful - unless, and it's a big unless, one is an alcoholic-addict, in which case occasional use will inevitably become frequent and disabling use. It seems to me that this is a big issue on this board, one that is prompting a lot of defensiveness and denial.- Jane
Posted by Mitchell on November 23, 2001, at 0:49:10
In reply to Re: the Evil Killer Weed, posted by wendy b. on November 21, 2001, at 10:33:02
Joy,
First, the surgeon general's warning - smoking can be harmful to your health. Don't underestimate the risk of smoking, and if that is what you choose to do, realize that by the time you are 50 or 60, if not sooner, you might have any one of several respiratory disorders. If you are not familiar with the frustrating feeling of not being able to catch your breath, it can be hard to assess how difficult it might be to spend the last years of your life with a respiratory disorder.
If you choose to smoke, smoke wisely. Consider moderation, filtration systems and quality smoking materials.
But as for the psychotropic effects of cannabis, by my assessment, so little is known that most clinical professionals, social workers, teachers, bosses, D.A.R.E. instructors, parents, concerned friends or anybody else who claims to know what this drug is doing to your mind is speaking more out of well-intended prejudice than out of scientific knowledge.
The dangers of pyrolytic byproducts are well-known, but the psychotropic hazards associated with cannabis are not well-defined and have not been scientifically measured against a dispassionate assessment of potential benefits.
There are two other categories of risk associated with cannabis, one of which is probably a subset of whatever psychotropic risks there might be. One risk is addiction or dependence. The other is social - the drug can get you busted, you can lose your job, people can stigmatize you as a pot head and you can generally lose social status *among some people* for using cannabis.
Addictionology is a well-established field of study and a fair description of addiction hazards, as defined by those specializing in addictionology, is offered in another recent post in this thread. For my part, I have some strong opinions about this science of addictionology. The science seems to harbor some covert prejudices and cultural assumptions. Among addictionologists, some attachments are considered healthy, such as attachments to social success, to the accumulation of capital, to athletic performance, or to most forms of modern entertainment, while others are assumed to be pathological.
If I may speak from the heart, I would say I am deeply angered that leaders in our society promote such escapist habits as watching television, traveling hither and thither in ridiculously inefficient, dangerous and environmentally hazardous vehicles, competition for competition's sake, high risk individual sports or just about anything else that generates capital, while they claim some moral high ground when it comes to cannabis use.
There is no reason to assume that cannabis use is an escapist practice. My experience is that it helps some people to better engage the world around them. For some, it can replace the need to partake in many of these empty rituals of capitalist culture, like observing professional team sports or watching idle entertainment programs on television. Of course many people combine cannabis use with these practices, and I am not per se condemning anybody's choice to watch or practice sports, watch TV, tour the world in a gas-guzzling land or sea yacht or to practice any other of what I consider to be stupid human tricks.
From my experience, cannabis use, even regular cannabis use, can be a very engaging activity. For whatever unknown reason, my experience has been that some people who use it are more engaged with people and with nature. The ballyhoo about amotivational syndrome might have as much to do with who chooses to use cannabis than it does with the effects of cannabis. Some people choose to disengage from stupid human tricks and to become more engaged with their own contemplation. This can be labeled amotivational syndrome, whether they use cannabis or not. Chances are, those who choose to disengage in stupid human tricks are more likely to choose a drug that helps them to engage with their own thoughts, other people or nature.
I can't speak with authority to your situation with the therapist, but it seems to me that there is no way this person could have information about how these medications interact with cannabis. I dare say if you asked a clinical worker for studies that support claims that cannabis is interacting with prescribed drugs, they would be left speechless. My suspicion is the person is speaking from social prejudice, having already decided for whatever reason that cannabis use is a wrong choice.
It is my opinion that many clinical psychiatric workers are entirely too convinced of their ability to make people's lives picture perfect. Some, in my opinion, want to consider themselves omniscient healers of persons but they have their heads in the sand when it comes to social realities that are behind so many of the conditions that lead to psychiatric complaints. I believe many are way too quick to blame their clients for whatever it is in the client's life that the clinical worker cannot make conform to the clinical worker's ego-centric expectations.
I don't mean to say that therapy, medications or other psychiatric offerings are useless and don't work, or that a therapist or psychiatrist can never accurately assess that cannabis or some other non-clinical medication is causing problems for their clients. But your therapist is not a god. At some point, every person who does business with a paid healer has to decide how much trust to invest in the healer, and how much they will invest in their own sense of self-direction. It is really a matter of how much risk you want to assume by taking responsibility for your own choices, and whether the potential outcomes you expect from your choices are worth the risk.
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