![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 71. Go back in thread:
Posted by Noa on January 4, 2000, at 8:21:24
In reply to Re: KISS, posted by dj on January 3, 2000, at 1:20:34
> However, I do not think that a little pointed commentary is out of place on occassion
DJ, Pointed commentary is fine, but I have a hard time seeing the following as anything but offensive, and certainly not as "a little pointed commentary":
>However I suspect you have very dark brown eyes because you are full of BS.
Posted by CarolAnn on January 4, 2000, at 9:45:59
In reply to Re: KISS, posted by Noa on January 4, 2000, at 8:21:24
I must say a word or two(or more). We all ramble a little now and then, and as Noa says, don't read it if you're not interested.
Actually, the first several times I read Phillip's posts, I was reminded of the way my husband use to write, and he is the most mentally healthy person I've ever known! The first time I saw one of his letters, which was describing his position responsibilities to a new boss, it was so long and convoluted that after reading it, I said to him,"Honey, *I* can't even tell what your job is from reading this and *I* know exactly what your job IS!" I have since managed, over many lessons to teach him to KISS. The point here is that some people just don't have a talent for writing succintly, and when you add in mental health problems, there is just all the more reason to have a little empathy.
That said, I also must admit, Phillip that I find myself never really understanding what you are talking about. Which is a shame because, as I read your posts, I keep having the feeling that there is "something important here, if only I could figure out what it is". I hope that you will keep trying to find a happy medium between writing the way you have to write and writing in a way that people, like me, can understand. Best wishes for this new year!CarolAnn
Posted by dj on January 4, 2000, at 11:39:10
In reply to Re: KISS, posted by Noa on January 4, 2000, at 8:21:24
As I noted above, Noa, I was offended by PM's boastfulness about his supposed outstanding accomplishments that made him too important to take the time to edit his rambling discourses which counteract his exagerated claims.
Yes I was blunt and perhaps a bit rude and I was very tired and fed up with what I considered a lot of crap and still do. However on re-reading some of this stuff I think Jamies approach was perhaps a bit more compassionate, while questioning, which mine might have been if I was less tired and off, courtesy of ADs. So perhaps the next time I will sleep on it...
Frankly I am irritated by this whole exchange, however I will not take PMs advice and go talk it up with a therapist. I can sort my self out. I must say that I find threads of lucidity and consistency in his comments, but they are well buried amongst a lot of babble, which I do feel some empathy for as well. People including myself have questioned whether it's mania, which it may be, and it may be schizophrenic ramblings too...who knows...hopefully he can work it out with someone who has more patience than I, at this time...
> > However, I do not think that a little pointed commentary is out of place on occassion
>
> DJ, Pointed commentary is fine, but I have a hard time seeing the following as anything but offensive, and certainly not as "a little pointed commentary":
>
> >However I suspect you have very dark brown eyes because you are full of BS.
Posted by Noa on January 4, 2000, at 14:54:28
In reply to Re: KISS, posted by dj on January 4, 2000, at 11:39:10
Thank you for responding, DJ.
Posted by dj on January 4, 2000, at 15:49:31
In reply to Re: KISS, posted by Noa on January 4, 2000, at 14:54:28
> Thank you for responding, DJ.
Thanks for challenging me to ponder my comments & rationale, Noa.
Posted by Phillip Marx on January 4, 2000, at 17:48:38
In reply to Re: KISS and Phillip Marx, posted by CarolAnn on January 4, 2000, at 9:45:59
> I must say a word or two(or more). We all ramble a little now and then, and as Noa says, don't read it if you're not interested.
> Actually, the first several times I read Phillip's posts, I was reminded of the way my husband use to write, and he is the most mentally healthy person I've ever known! The first time I saw one of his letters, which was describing his position responsibilities to a new boss, it was so long and convoluted that after reading it, I said to him,"Honey, *I* can't even tell what your job is from reading this and *I* know exactly what your job IS!" I have since managed, over many lessons to teach him to KISS. The point here is that some people just don't have a talent for writing succintly, and when you add in mental health problems, there is just all the more reason to have a little empathy.
> That said, I also must admit, Phillip that I find myself never really understanding what you are talking about. Which is a shame because, as I read your posts, I keep having the feeling that there is "something important here, if only I could figure out what it is". I hope that you will keep trying to find a happy medium between writing the way you have to write and writing in a way that people, like me, can understand. Best wishes for this new year!CarolAnnThanks for your apology. I must say, though, that reading your post reconfirms the impression I have had that you are indeed manic. Your thoughts seem to be hyper-accelerated and all over the place. You seem unable to stick to your topic, and instead go off in all sorts of tangents. Interesting though they may be, the tangential streams strongly suggest manic thinking.
As you begin your coursework toward a masters, you should think about seeing a psychiatrist about this mania, because it might interfere with your ability to complete your academic responsibilities. If you were to write a paper in the fashion you write your posts, I cannot imagine a professor considering it a well-written paper. Your writing style is more like creative, stream of consciousness, manic, driven and not at all suitable to the straight, to the point style that is required in school.
20 hrs/wk), that’s mostly to make room for learning well what I want to learn in classes that favor income re-increases. Reserves appreciate positive cash flow as well.
Yahoo. I’ve just been invited to the Eagle Scout’s Court of Honor to bestow Scouting’s highest rank upon my nephew. Normally I don’t read my mail before work. Yahoo, I did today.pm
Posted by Phillip Marx on January 4, 2000, at 17:52:27
In reply to Re: KISS and tell, posted by Phillip Marx on January 4, 2000, at 17:48:38
Something gutted my last response. Thanks CarolAnn. Happy medium's must be moderated at the reader's end. But as I fumble on:
Thanks for your apology. I must say, though, that reading your post reconfirms the impression I have had that you are indeed manic. Your thoughts seem to be hyper-accelerated and all over the place. You seem unable to stick to your topic, and instead go off in all sorts of tangents. Interesting though they may be, the tangential streams strongly suggest manic thinking.
As you begin your coursework toward a masters, you should think about seeing a psychiatrist about this mania, because it might interfere with your ability to complete your academic responsibilities. If you were to write a paper in the fashion you write your posts, I cannot imagine a professor considering it a well-written paper. Your writing style is more like creative, stream of consciousness, manic, driven and not at all suitable to the straight, to the point style that is required in school.
20 hrs/wk), that’s mostly to make room for learning well what I want to learn in classes that favor income re-increases. Reserves appreciate positive cash flow as well.
Yahoo. I’ve just been invited to the Eagle Scout’s Court of Honor to bestow Scouting’s highest rank upon my nephew. Normally I don’t read my mail before work. Yahoo, I did today.pm
Posted by Phillip Marx on January 4, 2000, at 18:02:34
In reply to Re: KISS and tell2, posted by Phillip Marx on January 4, 2000, at 17:52:27
Looks lke an old mainframe editor problem eating up all my formatting characters. I'll track through the FAQs later. Manual space paragraphs for now.
-Skip-reading is best for some of you, skip-it reading is best for others. This is only peak-to-peak writing. I skip a lot. I’ve no intention or sufficient skill to be a novella-ist. Everybody criticizes the critics the most. But the following demonstrates my difficulties with KISS that I am very much aware of.
-Reading back, I see one of the problems. The threads aren’t in chronological order, except within sub-threads. I wasn’t aware of the scale of the site work, admirable work in progress, until my scale of work proved embarrassingly inadequate. When I stepped in, (gotta watch where I step, and whether I land running or slipping in the mud) I wandered through whichever topic seemed most relevant first. This was not von-Neumann linear. It was exploring: discovery. As threads seemed to insert themselves and grow their own dendrites, so did the distance between what I said and what I should have said. Anyone, including me, who started at the top thread items and worked down, was starting to get answers before questions. I wasn’t necessarily using much linear thinking in the first place, but the distortion via chrono-displacement wasn’t all mine. Being oriented as to time and place requires a lot in each place. Since I added to whichever thread I was on, presuming and not regurgitating what I said last, elsewhere, the train of thought got woefully separated. The thread list was small when I started. If I had written for what size the month’s thread((s)-cubed) ended up as, I would have been better paying three extra bucks a month for a personal home-page site to keep it all together on.
-Doing long reports, proposals and research papers allows one to defer the detailing of the details to the details section. The introduction section has the luxury of saying that it will all soon be explained in the following sections. The summary recollects highlights of the details (peak-to-peak) and justifies the collection of all the details with the result or at least what the benefit of a given result would be, often in advancing even one more, not yet really tangible, hypothesis. The abstract tries to do all three in a single paragraph. Abstracting is the most difficult to make stand-alone. All the points of view incorporated in a given document are often crammed into a single sentence that is virtual gibberish to anything but a resource search engine. They are often written as bait to get you to buy and read the details. That .01% of the words is used to magnify the sense of the need for the 99.99%, which is a deliberate deficit catering to anyone’s emotional response to superficial or real supply and demand.
-My writing in abstract form without promise of details could sound like bait in a lake without fish, or a carrot on a stick out of reach. Collapsing all those bulleted paragraphs into a single sentence in prose, playing on words and thought-rhyme to maximize memorability, doesn’t seem to be standing well alone. Dictionary grade inflection marking would help the readability a lot, though probably not be received well. It took me long enough to write that .01%, I can’t write the 99.99% in this lifetime and it seems foolish to me to try, especially before I take the most reasonable seeming classes. It’s more important for me to learn to make sense of this stuff first than to try to make sense without it. I’m not writing post-class theses here, and I think it is yet very important for me not to. Abstracts, especially abstracts of abstracts, can be like abstract art. Some can be beautiful and some can be ugly, yet artistic in some difficult to discern way.
-I am leaving out all the map phrases for all the issues I skirt (“on the one hand” “on the other hand” “on the plus side” “on the negative side” “in contrast to”) since it speeds writing, though it slows reading as the reader must decompress the thoughts. Writing to an audience I wasn’t intending complicates terminology and style synchronization. I was getting a lot of money to perfect stuff the hard way. Working for free should be free for me too. Working free of the details in just abstracts that would be totally non-abstract to those I am looking for isn’t deliberately rude. It’s just a search engine choice. I am trying to keep the big pictures and the little pictures together so I write picture-in-picture. Molecules have complex bonding links, so do my paragraphs.
Phillip,
>Thanks for your apology. I must say, though, that reading your post reconfirms the impression I have had that you are indeed manic. Your thoughts seem to be hyper-accelerated and all over the place. You seem unable to stick to your topic, and instead go off in all sorts of tangents. Interesting though they may be, the tangential streams strongly suggest manic thinking.-Single topic, single topic, just how does one create a single, really single topic? Sounds luxurious. Several people seem to be parroting monotonic (not monotonous, but single-tone (tome)) thinking style propaganda. That might be a conservative, stress-lowering, safer way to think while in a hampered, recovery state. KISS is a therapy (not to be confused with KISSing, which is also great therapy). Getting back to real life will mean re-assuming complexities, running from complexities is a disorder only tolerated and imposed by therapy. I am a details person, though one of those details has always been keeping all the details together, details scavenging and details dumping are part of it. Tangents are really just straight lines that don’t necessarily intersect the shapes in more than one place. It’s an invention for geometry’s sake, for the description of geometrical shapes as well as geometric ideas, a simplification convenience in spite of it’s own complexity. Tangent writing styles are necessary else sufficient dissertation requires calculus to describe every infinitesimal point (and intangible functions are really messy). Cartoons show thoughts as clouds (not just cloudy thinking) and my paragraphs have volume, too much volume, even when compressed into just trying to describe (or touch, scratch) the “surface” of each idea. Condensing and distilling is necessary else too many paragraphs becomes a worse problem. My Y2.1K think thing is just two pages short of 100 pages in 10 pt. as terse as I can get it. Getting 20 to 40 proposals completed in a single shift of 80+ long terrible hours straight minimum, has trained me to think fast, accelerate through all topic turns and not burn out the brakes. It was my job as manager to keep “all over the place” securely intact. That was never a period of time I could have stayed up for with less reason, or with less stress. I had to consolidate all topics simultaneously (keeping them separate only in my head) and not lose or misplace even one tangent, and try to master the decision difficulties of determining what stays and what doesn’t under military contract deadlines where real lives were at stake. The Gulf War was a month shorter just because of one of the “littlest” programs I worked on, and casualties expected (budgeted) by our side were decimated, the right kind of decimated. People outside aerospace haven’t the tiniest inkling how many times aerospace has already saved countless lives, innocent ones too. If you think surgeons have stress, imagine what ABM people go through. Hundreds of millions of lives are at stake with each tiny mistake. Everyone IS everyone else’s keeper and glad of it. My workplace pace was chosen by myself and my employers to be as far opposite to care-free as humanly possible. Aerospace has filled many hospitals and cemeteries with it’s cold-war wounded and killed. And we can’t get any respect for it either, how does that guy say that like a joke, it’s a joke that it’s a joke. When we try to convince ourselves that it all was worth it, we get pictures of people who took 8-cent bullets shoved in our faces. Shrinks and philosophers may bewail the balance of lifestyle, but they have a right to their lifestyle choices protected by those who equip our protectors. It’s my turn now to step back from such rigid requirements, or at least relax to a recreational level, if I can ever get back up to a level that’s fun. I need to spend the time instead on generating income that doesn’t cost me personally so much.
-I could break all this up into indentured sub-paragraphs, but the site “left-justifies” everything. A bunch of smaller paragraphs just looks like so many endlessly rippling sand dunes. Maybe if I next time double return between major thought blocks, hmmm, I can avoid paragraph numbering maintenance obnoxious-ness. Dr. Bob?
>As you begin your coursework toward a masters, you should think about seeing a psychiatrist about this mania, because it might interfere with your ability to complete your academic responsibilities. If you were to write a paper in the fashion you write your posts, I cannot imagine a professor considering it a well-written paper. Your writing style is more like creative, stream of consciousness, manic, driven and not at all suitable to the straight, to the point style that is required in school.
-I’d like to get my Masters, but I’m only building up some non-core electives now, low stress, self-beneficial, and, except for the psy-stuff, with income potential as isolated from critical “company and country life-dependent” scheduling as humanly possible. If my stocks recover half as much as half the analysts predict, then I’ll be an 800-pound gorilla with my time and get several Masters and maybe a Pastors. I’m not going to spend anything that hasn’t panned out yet though. No more of those mandatory work overtimes that eventually turn into class withdrawals or incompletes that revert to something worse on the transcripts. Since I “concentrate” on academics in ways that look manic, I get practically all straight A’s. My first try through college, though I made honor roll, I crashed from starvation after the scholarship money ran out (VietNam War era). When I returned to finish my Bachelor’s, I was well funded by Hughes (they paid for it 100%) and well-fed. I got almost straight A’s. I only got one B, and even that was a B+, my computer died and kept dying until replaced during that class. I was forced to do the video-presentation with a visibly jury-rigged computer. Self-assessment the class was called, do I still sound like I spent most of that time re-fixing my computer? I am still my own biggest blind spot. I now have several back-up computers from that lesson. I have gotten straight A’s ever since my breakdown, too. I can prove that’s not a delusional statement. I do well academically, always have, at least when I eat more than mind-starving American rice. I took a year of medical, advanced medical and legal transcription and human anatomy and terminology in the early part of my recovery since I thought I was going to be stuck home by the medications, with a slurred appearance not very work compatible. The dangerous-to-exclude tangents lawyers, doctors, corporate and government officials have to deal with would really make you dizzy here, even if you were on, what’s it called, is it piracetam? Logical tangents are essential, especially those on check-lists. Loophole containment, though hated, rules. Just read any APA publications, no single vector stuff there. Though I learned a lot, destiny doesn’t point to transcription for me since I never could get my typing speed back up to speed (lucky? Or too bad? TBD). Funny, that transcription professor just this second e-mailed me an invitation for lunch. Besides, Dr. Jensen has me far more functional than I was then. I can no longer type near 100wpm, skill atrophy, carpal tunnel flash pain cross-compensating un-coordination, I dunno. I can only muster short bursts of 50wpm, even after sticking out a speed refresher course, which still gave me an A for merely improving 10wpm. That one was a hard A. I graduated B.S.B.A. “With Distinction” - one of only 28 out of 800 graduates that year to do so. Not delusional, I have the diploma and the graduation video to prove it. I’m mostly the same now as then, except I’m more cautious and conservative (self-conservative) now. I just looked through that video a few weeks ago trying to find the clips of our nuclear reactor room test pulse glows for my Y2.1K thing. I’m still me. My academics are not hurt by my writing. BS professors, (oh no) like full scope work even more than BA professors do. Or is that where the difference is, the specialist incentive? I cram a lot into my writing. I sure don’t have time to build a page full of footnotes. I am a cross-technology consolidator by trade. Something has to give, or my body will give in again. I’ll sacrifice the low end before I’ll sacrifice the top end. Research proposals are only bids to fill in the low end anyway, maybe I’m conditioned to wait until someone is willing to pay for it to give all the grunt work. Mensa loves streams-of-thought, why is it so poorly respected here? I know that a lot of the early bipolar literature sounds like a lot of dumb (outside the problem type ignorance) people trying to understand intermittently gifted people and why they couldn’t stay that way and crashed from self-disappointment so bad. The new writers are too much smarter now, no trace of respect for bipolars now, history is full of history-worthy inspired bipolars, but I don’t see much in the age since bipolar medicine. Is nothing above average not abnormal now? Where is the technical source for all this contempt for broad thinking coming from? I hear it from so many sources that I wonder what the real base source reference is. Where is the core authority reference (dummy?) who is so paranoid about how neural networks work that they malign bursts of efficiency and intuition with so much psy-disorder propaganda? All of us go to school to increase our mental capabilities. Is any such success such a malady? Where has all the flag waving for personal development gone? Is above normal as bad as below normal because it metrically rates a “standard” deviation from norm equally? Norm should not be a goal unless it is up. Norm means statistical average, not what “normal” should really be as high as. Things that skew the gaussian “norm” up should be the norm. Is it really right to be so digital about people in an analog world? Without so much disease holding down the norm, what would the “average” norm be? Imagine how high-functioning (and how much high-er functioning, one-sigma maybe, may be, maybe: that’s a ha-ha, not a typo)) normal would be without disease (sorry, not time to re-word now, but the drift is drifting there somewhere). We all, like axons, find our place(s), and touchstones. Someone will Messianically (axonically) re-solve (thereby resolving) this problem soon, I hope.
-Last thought before going to work: I got my work done (“pure”-itanical work ethic, purged by fire: ethics laser surgery), at significant expense to my health. My last company’s stock value rose 10,000% during my tenure there and they did not like my leaving, they covered overdue dental care after I left. I’m really sorry that their value dropped 9,000 of those 10,000% after I left, especially since I had such a nice stock-bonus plan, which they graciously helped me to hold out till the last day for best vesting of. They graciously accommodated me and my medicinally depressed and suppressed productivity for a year after the breakdown. They trained me at their own expense for that demotion to email, inter and intra-network administrator - they sent me to Vermont (IBM co-facility, the largest single-story building in the country) for two weeks to set up a dual Lantastic-Novell network. But medicine accumulates. I had to quit when I started stopping for red lights in the middle of intersections. Now I treat too much work for no pay as a red light, strike that, stop sign. I’d love to flesh out what I write again. I just can’t afford it. I have to put myself higher on my priority list than I like or I’ll get totally useless again. Don’t most of us have the water sloshing over our gunnels too often? Me too, still. I’m not going to work myself up to needing so much medication to knock me down for a healing spell again voluntarily.
-If I start working for myself instead of working for someone else, then maybe “my” value will go up 10,000% in 6 years. There sure is more room up than down for me now. I have to keep it smart smartly or keep it too simple stupidly. Catch-22. Darned if I say too much, and darned if I say too little. Only recourse is to do a little of all three, since even the middle is complained about so much. Going on and on is what things written not-too-tersely looks like. I for sure can’t take even this much time after classes start, even though I’m only working part time (>20 hrs/wk), that’s mostly to make room for learning well what I want to learn in classes that favor income re-increases. Reserves appreciate positive cash flow as well.
-Yahoo. I’ve just been invited to the Eagle Scout’s Court of Honor to bestow Scouting’s highest rank upon my nephew. Normally I don’t read my mail before work. Yahoo, I did today.
pm
Posted by Noa on January 4, 2000, at 20:31:52
In reply to Re: KISS and tell3, posted by Phillip Marx on January 4, 2000, at 18:02:34
Still, Phillip, your writing is not focused. You have difficulty focusing directly on the topic and you throw in too much tangential thought. You are very good at rationalizing why you do this. Your rationalizations reflect the fact that you are intelligent, but I believe your rationalizations still do not explain away the impression many of us seem to be getting of you, that you are suffering from acute mania. I think consulting a psychiatrist is in your best interest.
Posted by CarolAnn on January 5, 2000, at 8:16:57
In reply to Re: KISS and tell3, posted by Noa on January 4, 2000, at 20:31:52
Noa, I think we are barking up the wrong alley. We have both written posts with the intention of being "nice" to Mr. Marx, and he just keeps missing the point(I don't think he even read my post completely).
I know I probably shouldn't be writing a personal note here, but I don't know where else to express my feelings. And sometimes you just gotta express or you'll explode, you know?
Anyway, as far as Phillip Marx is concerned, my advice to myself is:
"CarolAnn, just don't go there". It'll save me alot of frustration, which I can definitely do without! Final words on the subject:"Farewell and Godspeed, Mr. Phillip Marx".
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2000, at 0:24:24
In reply to Re: KISS, posted by dj on January 4, 2000, at 11:39:10
> Yes I was blunt and perhaps a bit rude and I was very tired and fed up with what I considered a lot of crap and still do. However on re-reading some of this stuff I think Jamies approach was perhaps a bit more compassionate, while questioning, which mine might have been if I was less tired and off, courtesy of ADs. So perhaps the next time I will sleep on it...
>
> Frankly I am irritated by this whole exchange, however I will not take PMs advice and go talk it up with a therapist. I can sort my self out. I must say that I find threads of lucidity and consistency in his comments, but they are well buried amongst a lot of babble, which I do feel some empathy for as well. People including myself have questioned whether it's mania, which it may be, and it may be schizophrenic ramblings too...who knows...hopefully he can work it out with someone who has more patience than I, at this time...Thanks for being willing to reflect on your previous posts. I do appreciate everyone's efforts at keeping this a civil forum.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2000, at 0:48:18
In reply to Re: KISS and tell3, posted by Phillip Marx on January 4, 2000, at 18:02:34
> Looks lke an old mainframe editor problem eating up all my formatting characters. I'll track through the FAQs later. Manual space paragraphs for now.
Sorry, but there's no way to format very much here, at least right now. "Manual space" paragraphs is about it. And the less-than sign is a special case (see the FAQ).
> -Reading back, I see one of the problems. The threads aren’t in chronological order, except within sub-threads.
The threads are in fact in chronological order -- based on when they were started.
> -I could break all this up into indentured sub-paragraphs, but the site “left-justifies” everything. A bunch of smaller paragraphs just looks like so many endlessly rippling sand dunes. Maybe if I next time double return between major thought blocks, hmmm, I can avoid paragraph numbering maintenance obnoxious-ness. Dr. Bob?
Multi-level outline-type (sub-)paragraph headachiness?
Bob
Posted by Philip Marx on January 7, 2000, at 2:59:25
In reply to Re: formatting, posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2000, at 0:48:18
Thanks, I kept losing formatting too late to fix it after the submit button re-parsed it. My stuff is big enough to need micro-formatting, and it looks terrible without it. Nothing is better than WP5.1, and Word won't let you change much mid-paragraph, too much of a core-engine copy of Ventura Publisher. I stopped trying to fix it the Tech way far too late for some of the impatient here. I admire what is going on here. I think I can make some positive pictorials during class breaks. I'll let you decide when/if they are public ready Dr. Bob.
Word tech support has always told me they were working on "this deficiency" compared to WordPerfect 5.1 DOS re: adding tags and references with autotracking, maybe '2000 has it or will. Until then, I'd rather go back to DOS than build a paper that doesn't keep track of itself. It's terrible. Yes, that less than sign gobbled up a lot of my stuff, it loses asterisks that precede a character without an intermediate space. The system also loses all indent spaces and leading spaces and tabs, I don't know if it's at the Windows clipboard paste/dump or not. It made my writing look far worse than my attitude is towards driving myself to a perfected death again. I'm doing this in the web text box without proofing in Word this time, so let's see.
1test
12test
123 test
Those test lines have as many spaces preceding them as there are numbers.--The chronological separation I was talking about wasn't the one within each thread, those are fine, and I wouldn't have embarrassed myself so much if I had constrained myself to them with what I now see as proper protocol
But, the chrono-confusion potential is demonstrable since only the first entry in a thread maintains it's seniority, it's second entry can be posted far after an earlier (higher-up) sub-thread get it's first response. For example:
From the beginning of this month:
Re: Reboxetine (Edronax) Bruce 1/3/00
Reboxetine side effects Frymet 1/3/00
Re: Reboxetine side effects Peter 1/4/00
Re: Reboxetine side effects torchgrl 1/5/00
Re: Question -- Re: Nicotine gum Richard 1/2/00
Re: Losing weight after paxil Shannon 1/4/00
Re: Losing weight after paxil Mark Weeks 1/5/00
Re: Losing weight after paxil mrkwks@aol.com 1/5/00Note that some 1/5/00 are before 1/2/00.
So, an answer posted on 1/5/00 wouldn't have a question to go with it show until someone read down that far. I've never been on a multi-thread board before. I should have known sooner.
I was mostly responsive to the yellow "spot"lights, I really like that feature. So, I think there were a couple of cases "higher up" that I used to combine with answers from lower down. Really un-un-un-insightful of me. Someone, reading from the top, didn't have a chance of knowing which question I was answering, since I didn't stay within originating threads. If I had started at the real beginning, I might have appreciated what this grows into. The points I "wasn't" sticking to might be in last months babble-cache on a thread the readers might never read.
> > Looks lke an old mainframe editor problem eating up all my formatting characters. I'll track through the FAQs later. Manual space paragraphs for now.
>
> Sorry, but there's no way to format very much here, at least right now. "Manual space" paragraphs is about it. And the less-than sign is a special case (see the FAQ).
>
> > -Reading back, I see one of the problems. The threads aren’t in chronological order, except within sub-threads.
>
> The threads are in fact in chronological order -- based on when they were started.
>
> > -I could break all this up into indentured sub-paragraphs, but the site “left-justifies” everything. A bunch of smaller paragraphs just looks like so many endlessly rippling sand dunes. Maybe if I next time double return between major thought blocks, hmmm, I can avoid paragraph numbering maintenance obnoxious-ness. Dr. Bob?
>
> Multi-level outline-type (sub-)paragraph headachiness?
>
> BobTags and references in WP5.1 still rule as far as I am concerned, I've never had a proofreader find a figure number misquoted unless the figure count exceeded 32 in a subsection. I loved (and still do) how I could insert sectiona and subsections at will or whim and every reference to any paragraph number would update to point to the right place. I couldn't have done half as much without it with the time I had back then, but now, I'll just have to budget more time.
I again apologise for poor nettiquette. I don't like the taste of literal crow.
Thanks - Dr. Bob
Posted by Phillip Marx on January 7, 2000, at 3:35:52
In reply to Re: KISS and make up, posted by Dr. Bob on January 7, 2000, at 0:24:24
Imitation is a high form of flattery (with caveats).
All of us are here and there learning self-therapy selectively from our therapists, imitating them all over this board. The more we develop our self-therapy strength the stronger our control of ourselves. Next comes self-therapy reflex speed. Just like growth-spurting teenagers have trouble keeping their coordination matched to their size and strength changes, we can expect once quick-enough reflexes to lag or abuse newer strengths. Practice makes perfect, so here we train and retrain until we get it right at no expense to those less forgiving. As you may have noticed, I take no offense to my person, but I don't drop my facts fast on low-balance-weight evidence, either. I do say why-why-why in a whyning (why type whining) way. I have credibility earned elsewhere I guess it will be difficult to earn here.
I am way past the giving up stage and determined to continue the climb back up. Gently tenacious to that goal I will stay. No deadlines means not dead before the line again. Boy am I drifting, I'm going to be asleep again in a few minutes.
If you can see in what you wrote what your therapist would have seen, then you are indeed on the way up. Congratulations. Don't abandon yours, and I won't abandon mine until they set us free.
I refused to be harmed and therefore need no apology for harm not done by you. However, I may owe you some apology, consider it offered, not skillfully, but offered anyway.
pm
> > Yes I was blunt and perhaps a bit rude and I was very tired and fed up with what I considered a lot of crap and still do. However on re-reading some of this stuff I think Jamies approach was perhaps a bit more compassionate, while questioning, which mine might have been if I was less tired and off, courtesy of ADs. So perhaps the next time I will sleep on it...
> >
> > Frankly I am irritated by this whole exchange, however I will not take PMs advice and go talk it up with a therapist. I can sort my self out. I must say that I find threads of lucidity and consistency in his comments, but they are well buried amongst a lot of babble, which I do feel some empathy for as well. People including myself have questioned whether it's mania, which it may be, and it may be schizophrenic ramblings too...who knows...hopefully he can work it out with someone who has more patience than I, at this time...
>
> Thanks for being willing to reflect on your previous posts. I do appreciate everyone's efforts at keeping this a civil forum.
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2000, at 2:45:11
In reply to Re: formatting-thanks, posted by Philip Marx on January 7, 2000, at 2:59:25
> The system also loses all indent spaces and leading spaces and tabs, I don't know if it's at the Windows clipboard paste/dump or not.
No, it's when the browser displays the page. In HTML, spaces are kind of ignored.
> > The threads are in fact in chronological order -- based on when they were started.
> Re: Reboxetine (Edronax) Bruce 1/3/00
> Reboxetine side effects Frymet 1/3/00
> Re: Reboxetine side effects Peter 1/4/00
> Re: Reboxetine side effects torchgrl 1/5/00
> Re: Question -- Re: Nicotine gum Richard 1/2/00
>
> Note that some 1/5/00 are before 1/2/00.Yes, but the thread with the 1/5 post was started in 7/98, while that with the 1/2 post wasn't started until 11/98. The 7/98 thread comes before the 11/98 thread.
Bob
Posted by JohnB on January 9, 2000, at 5:02:32
In reply to Re: formatting, posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2000, at 2:45:11
PM, I enjoy your posts. Who would have thought we'd have a James Joycian poster on the babble. I love all the puns and stream of conscioussness. Like the Yahoo guy yahoo(ed), do we even have the time to read your posts? And like the man said, we don't have to read'em, do we?
I'm curious as to what your major is at school?
Posted by Philip Marx on January 10, 2000, at 3:30:17
In reply to Re: formatting, posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2000, at 2:45:11
> > The system also loses all indent spaces and leading spaces and tabs, I don't know if it's at the Windows clipboard paste/dump or not.
>
> No, it's when the browser displays the page. In HTML, spaces are kind of ignored.
>
> > > The threads are in fact in chronological order -- based on when they were started.
>
> > Re: Reboxetine (Edronax) Bruce 1/3/00
> > Reboxetine side effects Frymet 1/3/00
> > Re: Reboxetine side effects Peter 1/4/00
> > Re: Reboxetine side effects torchgrl 1/5/00
> > Re: Question -- Re: Nicotine gum Richard 1/2/00
> >
> > Note that some 1/5/00 are before 1/2/00.
>
> Yes, but the thread with the 1/5 post was started in 7/98, while that with the 1/2 post wasn't started until 11/98. The 7/98 thread comes before the 11/98 thread.
>
> BobRe: Thread chronology
Shades of FORTH, there it is. Quite a difference from the stocks board threads I’m more used to. I see better how I got lost.
How do I get my email notification turned back on – I checked the box every time?
Sounds like my confusion was contagious, sorry all, it was clear to me at first, but erroneously. Some confusion just means I have yet to make my point – so invest more explanation. Second type confusion just means that they are starting to get it – so invest more explanation. Third type confusion means I had better start over – so invest more explanation. Alternate recourses are now being researched.
Now back to the subject of what I’m still here for. The babble search is now limited to search by incremental archive. I may have found a way to get around that while complaining with my web accelerator provider about how he was abusing his speed gains too much. I am now starting up several times faster without them & without a home page by putting a shortcut to my favorites and history in my startup folder. Now I just shove and group ALL the links I want to look at right now and right-click group-lasso and open all windows at once. No longer does it take longer to change pages than it does to read them. No more 30 seconds or more each through a home page, more like 2.5 seconds each. More of the same trick might work for a symptom-medication search match-up in a folder full of babble-archive links. Darn, didn’t work. Gotta find that software that downloads the whole site HTML again. Patience is a virtue. So is knowing when to give up and move on. Merging both is better than each alone, working both at the same time is burning candles from both ends, gives more light too. Diagnosis is getting instrumental. I was going to cross-index all refractory atypicals with various degrees of treatment or diagnosis resistance, and their symptoms with their medications for a hope% chart CAM style in Excel. I think I’ve seen significant diagnosis detour symptoms ignored and too much hopeful-hypothesis following for things for which no typical classification is yet classical. Biggest complaints might be related. Nausea is common, and treated like common, which may be a key problem. Do the diets change, the metabolics change, or is the disorder creating cravings for nutrients that are difficult to scavenge from anything less than a horrendous amount of American over-purified food, or is it something else causing all the reported weight gain over time, such as the reduced mobility, et.al. I bet the FDA would like it’s subjectivity protected with a lot of instrumental objectivity. So would the medication makers (drug companies). Waiting for several weeks to believe whether a test patient maintains a moving target impression of how sick the medication makes them has gotta go. Coma patients can’t talk. Let’s fix that.
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/manual/ireas.html
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/dsma/dsmaclas.html
http://www.med.ualberta.ca/ebm/ebm.htmThese often require venipuncture and licensing, but EGG doesn’t. http://www.noblood.com/
Automatic Blood Analyzer—This small device developed by NASA allows doctors to quickly perform 80 to 100 different chemical blood tests from a single drop of blood in 5 minutes.
Exercise Equipment—NASA electrode technology, developed to monitor the heart rate of astronauts in space, has led to exercise equipment, also used in gyms and rehabilitation centers, that continually monitors the user's heart rate and sets the machine's pace according to physician or trainer instructions.http://www.accessamerica.gov/text/spaceheart.html
http://www.spie.org/web/abstracts/2900/2976.htmlWhen they go into space many of them get a little bit of space motion sickness, but that lasts for only a day or so and we have good treatments for it now. Besides that they really don't get to sick.
http://imsdd.meb.uni-bonn.de/cancernet/304466.html
http://www.centralpharmacy.nf.ca/trans.htm
http://www.quest.arc.nasa.gov/space/chats/archive/martin_chat.htmlI wonder if they have a way of measuring nausea? Nausea during coma would be nice to detect metrically.
An EGG, like an EEG, an abdominal EMG (Holter) would speed a lot of medication caution.http://www.ozemail.com.au/~lisadev/sftdoc.htm
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/nauseaandvomiting.html
http://www.ccspublishing.com/journals/mddx/nausea_and_vomiting/1_nausea_and_vomiting.htm
http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/texts/guide/hmg22_0002.html
http://www.dotpharmacy.co.uk/upuke.html
http://www.healthy.net/library/books/hoffman/childrens/NAUSEA.HTM
http://www.wellsoft.com/
Real top down planetary health: http://www.med.virginia.edu/medicine/inter-dis/csmhi/home.html
http://marc.med.virginia.edu/top1.html
http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/
http://www.med.virginia.edu/medicine/inter-dis/biomath/
http://www.virginia.edu/~sbne/
http://www.cidtech-research.com/
http://www.cidtech-research.com/melrad.html
http://www.med.virginia.edu/medicine/inter-dis/signaling/cellessay.html
Gotta get up tomorrow early to register.pm
Posted by Phillip Marx on January 10, 2000, at 3:40:34
In reply to Re: KISS, posted by JohnB on January 9, 2000, at 5:02:32
> PM, I enjoy your posts. Who would have thought we'd have a James Joycian poster on the babble. I love all the puns and stream of conscioussness. Like the Yahoo guy yahoo(ed), do we even have the time to read your posts? And like the man said, we don't have to read'em, do we?
>
> I'm curious as to what your major is at school?Major#444 GI=General Interest (snicker=self paced progress and digress)
James Joyce wasn't my call, but they beg for more. The innuendo volleyball relieves tensions, keeping all the "asides" inside is just shortmouth, verbal shorthand. Many have influenced me, but keeping it under 25 pages without disconnecting everything into isolated paragraphs is a joy I'm learning to love.
pm
Posted by sandi on January 10, 2000, at 18:59:25
In reply to Re: KISS, posted by Phillip Marx on January 10, 2000, at 3:40:34
> > PM, I enjoy your posts. Who would have thought we'd have a James Joycian poster on the babble. I love all the puns and stream of conscioussness. Like the Yahoo guy yahoo(ed), do we even have the time to read your posts? And like the man said, we don't have to read'em, do we?
> >
> > I'm curious as to what your major is at school?
>
> Major#444 GI=General Interest (snicker=self paced progress and digress)
>
> James Joyce wasn't my call, but they beg for more. The innuendo volleyball relieves tensions, keeping all the "asides" inside is just shortmouth, verbal shorthand. Many have influenced me, but keeping it under 25 pages without disconnecting everything into isolated paragraphs is a joy I'm learning to love.
>
> pmpm,I do enjoy your contributions, however, each time I read one, I come closer and closer to a psychotic break.
Posted by Mrs. G on January 10, 2000, at 20:40:03
In reply to Re: KISS, posted by sandi on January 10, 2000, at 18:59:25
I am fascinated by your posts. Inside that brain somewhere there dwells a genius. Amazing. Good luck to you. What is your occupation (or profession?)
Posted by Mrs. G on January 10, 2000, at 20:47:16
In reply to Re: Assessing Dr. Jensen's methods, posted by Phillip Marx on December 27, 1999, at 8:53:53
>Phillip said: I haven't given much attention to disorders not mine, but they are in there. Phillip Marx
> PhilMarx@net999.comMrs. G asks: What exactly is your disorder? If you have shared that, I could not find it. Please, tell....
Posted by Mr. B on January 10, 2000, at 21:09:24
In reply to Re: Assessing Dr. Jensen's methods, posted by Mrs. G on January 10, 2000, at 20:47:16
Alot of vunerable people may mistake you for a cult leader.
Just because someone doesn't make sense, doesn't mean they are a genius.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2000, at 21:17:25
In reply to Re: thread sorting, posted by Philip Marx on January 10, 2000, at 3:30:17
> How do I get my email notification turned back on – I checked the box every time?
I was getting errors from your email address, so I turned it off (see the FAQ). Are you sure you can receive email?
Bob
Posted by dj on January 10, 2000, at 22:28:07
In reply to Phillip Marx...do the right thing, get some help.., posted by Mr. B on January 10, 2000, at 21:09:24
There's a big gap between genius and babbbling, manic idiocy and unfortunately PM seems to be more in the latter camp. But then again the politically correct often mix up the two and our society with it.
> Alot of vunerable people may mistake you for a cult leader.
>
> Just because someone doesn't make sense, doesn't mean they are a genius.
Posted by juniper on January 10, 2000, at 23:23:15
In reply to Re: Phillip Marx...do the right thing, get some help.., posted by dj on January 10, 2000, at 22:28:07
so we KISSed and made up and all was once again order (sorta) and mutual education and support (the real objective) in babbleland...then this comes again...dj, i do not think that anyone has any doubt as to your feelings for phillip, but the act of saying the same things over and over is becoming eeriely reminiscent of what you are fruitlessly trying to get phillip to cease.
we are battling disorders, not each other.juniper
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.