Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on February 10, 2005, at 8:54:27
In reply to Re: quick thought... » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on February 10, 2005, at 4:04:05
> > Reality is what can be communicated what can be percieved and what comprises thought.
>
> What can be said, seen, and thought about. But is reality (as in the real world) those things - or is it whatever has a tendancy to produce in us those things?
Thats simply the given definition of the word reality, I had no intention of getting near the ivory tower academe, it's one of my least favorite places.> > >I think by definition, fantasy is considered to exist solely in the mind, but that same thing may not exist as fantasy to another.
>
> Yes. But the same goes for *perceptions* and *thoughts* and *ideas*. They exist (in one sense) solely in the mind - in the sense that I may have different perceptions, thoughts, and ideas from you.
>
> > It's almost comical to me that anyone who reads history cannot see that what was once haughtily dismissed as folklore or old wives tales has been found by empirical evidence to be true,
>
> Yes. Some of the claims were true. But others were false. Are you rating empirical evidence more hightly with respect to truth (by giving it the final word on truth)?
> No I was using your values of science being authoritative.> >There are many more spiritual and and fantastical concepts that science will still scoff at, however by looking at what they have mocked before who are we to say?
>
> > Of course, I was talking about the exceptions, the fantasies the metaphysical or magical realism
> > Some realities cannot be defined it doesn't make them not real.
>
> I am not sure what you mean...Your reality, of scientific definition, doesn't necissarily acknowledge them, it doesn't mean that they are not real, except to you.
> There are 'levels' if you will of reality.
> The following things are all real
> But intuitively different nevertheless>
> electrons
> tigers
> nail files
> the number seven
> perceptions
> thoughts
> utterances
> actions
>
> > Exactly that, reality is often dependent on the observer.
>
> Sub-atomic reality, or atomic reality?
> That is very Berkeley, you know.
> 'To be is to be perceived'.
> If we close our eyes on the world... it really does disappear.
> Labelling your beliefs doesn't often doesn't show where you are but where you've stopped.
I have no desire at all to argue anyone's theory
The fact that we see things so differently proves to me that reality cannot be concretized.
And thats all I'm saying> > Often you could not prove to the believer that the beliefs are false.
>
> Different kinds of beliefs require different kinds of evidence to cast doubt on them. There could be evidence that provides rational grounds to doubt.
What it is according to you and your belief system which may be entirely different from mine.
>
> If the 'final science' (or a completed version of science) provides the verdict judging which of an indefinately long list of statements about reality is true - then that is the nature of reality.
>
> Reality is *Inter-subjective*.
> The mid point between being mind independent
> And dependent.
> A meeting point of both...
>> Philosophers develop scientific methods. Once the methods are sufficiently worked out then people can practice from within those methods.
Yes.
(And disown themselves from the catch-all discipline of philosophy to establish a field with its own domain of investigation). Then the methods become subject to peer review. The scientific method is supposed to (as much as possible) provide us good reasons for accepting the legitimacy of experimental results.Of course, I'm not denying science, or saying it's wrong that would be ridiculous, I'm saying it's not the only realm of knowledge, there are others which can expand on science not prove it wrong, which are part of the human experience, the mystical the fantastic which are real thought it's often denied.
Anyway, this is getting far to into the philisophical for me which is something as you know I just can't stomach.
poster:Gabbi-x-2
thread:455724
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050205/msgs/455826.html